3rd place and Europe ?

[jbee647]

with no Champions league place for the runner up in the SPL, and the Cup Winner/ Runners up guarenteed a place, has Third in the SPL been reduced to a pre-qualifying game in early July, if in fact its worth a European place at all ?, anyway who wants a trip to Moldova in trades fortnight ?, to probably get knocked out a month before the season actually kicks off , Scottish clubs record in Europe have been shocking and we all laughed at Hibs in the Inter Toto, and i feel this is the level we are actually playing at, to be honest i dont think there is any kudos attached to playing European football at this level, in fact im sure it would actually cost us more than we could hope to make out of it.....discuss..

[Stupid Sexy Flanders]

Are you suggesting we should start losing games so that we don't finish third and have to play in Euro qualifiers?

 

Depending on who we draw, we could find ourselves in the group stages, which had a LOT of kudos attached. And even if it didn't, the point of football is to win as many games as you can. If we win the amount of games that causes us to finish third, then we just have to take whatever comes along with that.

[Boab]

with no Champions league place for the runner up in the SPL, and the Cup Winner/ Runners up guarenteed a place, has Third in the SPL been reduced to a pre-qualifying game in early July, if in fact its worth a European place at all ?, anyway who wants a trip to Moldova in trades fortnight ?, to probably get knocked out a month before the season actually kicks off , Scottish clubs record in Europe have been shocking and we all laughed at Hibs in the Inter Toto, and i feel this is the level we are actually playing at, to be honest i dont think there is any kudos attached to playing European football at this level, in fact im sure it would actually cost us more than we could hope to make out of it.....discuss..

 

 

You could have saved a bit of typing by posting....THIRD SHMIRD!

[Francis Albert]

We've never been knocked out of Europe by diddy teams like every other team in Scotland has, so I don't see why we should be worried.

 

Anyway, it's the CL for us next season!

[Statto]

3rd place enters into the 2nd Qualifying round, this season it was played on the 15th and 22/23rd of July.

 

More reason to try and go for 2nd (or even 1st...)

[Fourcandles]

Are you suggesting we should start losing games so that we don't finish third and have to play in Euro qualifiers?

 

Depending on who we draw, we could find ourselves in the group stages, which had a LOT of kudos attached. And even if it didn't, the point of football is to win as many games as you can. If we win the amount of games that causes us to finish third, then we just have to take whatever comes along with that.

 

Im pretty sure we made around ?2 million quid from being in the group stages last time - now admittedly running the kind of wage bills we were at the time we probably didnt benefit as much as we might now.

 

Imagine the income if we got a big EPL club - could help the coffers considerably?

 

[jbee647]

Are you suggesting we should start losing games so that we don't finish third and have to play in Euro qualifiers?Depending on who we draw, we could find ourselves in the group stages, which had a LOT of kudos attached. And even if it didn't, the point of football is to win as many games as you can. If we win the amount of games that causes us to finish third, then we just have to take whatever comes along with that.

aye im suggesting we lose every single game from now till the end of the season..!!!

what i am saying is Qualifying for Europe in the middle of July aint what its cracked up to be, the chances of us making the group stages are remote, Scottish clubs apart from the "Old Firm" sadly dont have the quality to compete in Europe, even at the lowest level.

[jbee647]

You could have saved a bit of typing by posting....THIRD SHMIRD!

haha...

[Stupid Sexy Flanders]

Im pretty sure we made around ?2 million quid from being in the group stages last time - now admittedly running the kind of wage bills we were at the time we probably didnt benefit as much as we might now.

 

Imagine the income if we got a big EPL club - could help the coffers considerably?

 

 

Correct, good point. And anyway, playing in Europe is brilliant! The home game against Zagreb was one of the highlights of last season, and going to Prague was one of the best times of my life. As you say Fourcandles, imagine if we got Spurs or someone like that? Magic.

[ToadKiller Dog]

aye im suggesting we lose every single game from now till the end of the season..!!!

what i am saying is Qualifying for Europe in the middle of July aint what its cracked up to be, the chances of us making the group stages are remote, Scottish clubs apart from the "Old Firm" sadly dont have the quality to compete in Europe, even at the lowest level.

 

Hearts are capable of beating any low/middle ranking european side at Tynie .

I am confident we would not embarass ourselves .

[Problem Officer?]

2nd & 3rd qualifying rounds should be comfortable wins tbh, especially against some of the diddy teams in the Europa League, and if this current squad at the moment is fully fit after a months break from the end of the season.

 

A couple of early European games at Tynecastle in mid/late July is fine by me to blend into the near start of the League campaign.

 

Honestly think that this team should at least be aiming at getting into the Group Stages next season.

[joshp]

2nd & 3rd qualifying rounds should be comfortable wins tbh, especially against some of the diddy teams in the Europa League, and if this current squad at the moment is fully fit after a months break from the end of the season.

 

A couple of early European games at Tynecastle in mid/late July is fine by me to blend into the near start of the League campaign.

 

Honestly think that this team should at least be aiming at getting into the Group Stages next season.

 

The round before the groups can be tough if unseeded, but we're good enough to give anyvtean there a run for their money I think.

[Only a Game]

Draw for Europa League 2011/12 qualifying rnd 1 & 2

June 20th

 

Europa league 2nd round qualifying (where we would definitely be seeded)

1st leg 14th July

2nd Leg 21st July

 

3rd round (where we probably wont be seeded but might scrape in)

July 28th & August 4th

 

4th round (last one before the group stages and we definitely wont be seeded)

August 18th & 25th

[Only a Game]

2nd & 3rd qualifying rounds should be comfortable wins tbh,

 

 

 

Honestly think that this team should at least be aiming at getting into the Group Stages next season.

 

3rd round we will most likely be unseeded (see above) and there will be some very big clubs there we would need to avoid

 

4th round will be brim full of much bigger and better equipped clubs than us (most of them will be household names) and we'll be very lucky to get a draw that gives us even a sniff of progression to the group stages.

 

Qualifying for the group stages the way this tournament is set up now and given our country and club co-efficient, would be one of the major achievements in our history and anyone expecting it to happen or believing its a minimum requirement, doesnt really have the first idea about European football.

[Jambos1983]

Does 2nd place not get champs league qualifiers if the winner this season finishes in a champs league spot in their country?

[Only a Game]

Does 2nd place not get champs league qualifiers if the winner this season finishes in a champs league spot in their country?

 

Judging from Bert Kassie's site, Yes that is the case. I'm not sure where that would leave our Europa cup qualifiers though. ( We might well need one of the OF to win the cup this season to bump us up a round)

 

Also judging from that site, we should actually have just enough co-efficient points to be seeded in the Europa cup Q3

[alwaysthereinspirit]

with no Champions league place for the runner up in the SPL, and the Cup Winner/ Runners up guarenteed a place, has Third in the SPL been reduced to a pre-qualifying game in early July, if in fact its worth a European place at all ?, anyway who wants a trip to Moldova in trades fortnight ?, to probably get knocked out a month before the season actually kicks off , Scottish clubs record in Europe have been shocking and we all laughed at Hibs in the Inter Toto, and i feel this is the level we are actually playing at, to be honest i dont think there is any kudos attached to playing European football at this level, in fact im sure it would actually cost us more than we could hope to make out of it.....discuss..

 

 

Most negative post in a while on here.

[Problem Officer?]

Just noticed that there is quite a lot of good teams that go into the 3rd qualifying round, thought most of them came into it in the play-off round before the group stages.

[jbee647]

Most negative post in a while on here.

eh ?...pish, its a relevant point, the point being, for Scottish clubs qualifying for Europe through a 3rd place finish doesnt have the appeal it did in the past, as it seems to have taken on the mantle of glorified pre season friendlies these days.

[Only a Game]

Just noticed that there is quite a lot of good teams that go into the 3rd qualifying round, thought most of them came into it in the play-off round before the group stages.

 

True but Ive done a quick bit of arithmetic and we SHOULD have enough points to be seeded in that round so will avoid the really big clubs.

 

The 4th round is where it gets virtually impossible for us.

 

Teams like Borrussia Dortmund/Feyenoord/Napoli only just made it into the seeded half of that draw this season.

[Mac_fae_Gillie]

The whole point of playing in the SPL is about making europe...

 

Well it is until the day we can put in a real challenge for the league.

Even if it means a bumpy start to next season with game congestion it is a must.

Got to admit July is huge pain for trying to get to away game,got very little chance of booking days off due to short notice.

Just pray we make it to late August when kids are back at school so I can get a trip away.

We love a few games,got 10 days left on my leave card ready for europe games be great if we do make Group.

[maroonshrew]

i actually think an earlier competitive start could benefit our early league form. Id rather play a team from Moldova twice a competetive tie than watch us lose to Dunfermline and everyone starts slitting their wrists.

[davemclaren]

True but Ive done a quick bit of arithmetic and we SHOULD have enough points to be seeded in that round so will avoid the really big clubs.

 

The 4th round is where it gets virtually impossible for us.

 

Teams like Borrussia Dortmund/Feyenoord/Napoli only just made it into the seeded half of that draw this season.

 

 

4th round would be incredibly tough but chance of a decent trip.

[Stampy]

True but Ive done a quick bit of arithmetic and we SHOULD have enough points to be seeded in that round so will avoid the really big clubs.

 

The 4th round is where it gets virtually impossible for us.

 

Teams like Borrussia Dortmund/Feyenoord/Napoli only just made it into the seeded half of that draw this season.

 

Are there any links to the qualifying process? Just so i can bamboozle myself even more!

[Dean Winchester]

Are Scotland not still ranked 15th? So do we not go in at Q3? And Q4 if we get bumped up due to Rangers/Celtic winning the cup?

[RoussetsShorts]

The only important thing about our upcoming european campaign is that ALL the home matches are at TYNECASTLE. We have a good chance in any tie if we play our home leg at a packed and noisy Tynecastle, if we go to murrayfield again we can forget it, that place removes any home advantage we could hope to have.

 

[Statto]

Are Scotland not still ranked 15th? So do we not go in at Q3? And Q4 if we get bumped up due to Rangers/Celtic winning the cup?

 

We're currently 15th for qualification for next season but we finished 16th for qualification for this season.

[Only a Game]

Are there any links to the qualifying process? Just so i can bamboozle myself even more!

 

Bert Kassie's site is the best for bamboozling yourself on the finer points of co-efficients, access lists and qualification. Especially at this time of year when hardly anyone has qualified yet and just about everything is on an if and a but. Well worth following towards the end of the season but wont tell you a great deal more than I've already posted at this stage.

 

Just google Bert Kassie and it should be at the top of the list

[Only a Game]

We're currently 15th for qualification for next season but we finished 16th for qualification for this season.

 

Bert Kassie has us ranked 16th for next season's competitions. I dont think that can change now as the figures are taken from complete seasons only (i.e. this season doesnt count for next seasons European competitions) We would be ranked 15th for the FOLLOWING season as it stands at the moment. That MIGHT change if Rangers pick up a few more co-efficient points.

 

The season after that (2013) we are currently projected to be 27th !!!! (unless we have a good year next year that will be a disaster in terms of European football)

[Statto]

Right, I think I've got this right;

 

Runner-up

If the SPL Winner, also wins the Scottish Cup, the SPL runner-up will enter the 4th Qualifying round IF this years Europa League winner is the domestic cup winner of either; England, Spain, Italy, Germany, France, Russia, Ukraine, Netherlands, Romania, Portugal, Turkey, Greece, Switzerland, Belgium or Denamrk,

or 5th placed finisher of England, Spain, Italy,

4th placed finisher of Germany, France or Russia,

3rd placed finisher of Ukraine, Romania or Portugal.

 

In addition, if this season's Champions League winner qualifies for Europe via one of these 22 positions, the runner-up will move up to QR4.

 

3rd

If the SPL Winner also wins the Scottish Cup, 3rd place in the SPL will enter the 3rd qualifying round with the cup runner-up or 4th place (if the RU has already qualified for Europe) will enter QR2 instead.

[Only a Game]

Right, I think I've got this right;

 

Runner-up

If the SPL Winner, also wins the Scottish Cup, the SPL runner-up will enter the 4th Qualifying round IF this years Europa League winner is the domestic cup winner of either; England, Spain, Italy, Germany, France, Russia, Ukraine, Netherlands, Romania, Portugal, Turkey, Greece, Switzerland, Belgium or Denamrk,

or 5th placed finisher of England, Spain, Italy,

4th placed finisher of Germany, France or Russia,

3rd placed finisher of Ukraine, Romania or Portugal.

 

In addition, if this season's Champions League winner qualifies for Europe via one of these 22 positions, the runner-up will move up to QR4.

 

3rd

If the SPL Winner also wins the Scottish Cup, 3rd place in the SPL will enter the 3rd qualifying round with the cup runner-up or 4th place (if the RU has already qualified for Europe) will enter QR2 instead.

hmmm

 

I think if this seasons Champions league winner has also qualified for next seasons Champions League by their league position then our league runner up would be in the Champions League QR2

[Only a Game]

hmmm

 

I think if this seasons Champions league winner has also qualified for next seasons Champions League by their league position then our league runner up would be in the Champions League QR2, so, in that case, your projections on what would happen to our runner up would actually happen to our 3rd place league team, provided our cup is won by our league winners or runners up.

[Stampy]

Jeezo...think i will wait till the draw

[Statto]

hmmm

 

I think if this seasons Champions league winner has also qualified for next seasons Champions League by their league position then our league runner up would be in the Champions League QR2

 

No, what would happen is if say Man United won this seasons CL and Premiership, the Swiss Champions move from Q3 to Q4, the Scottish Champions move from Q2 to Q3 and the Champions of the Faroes and Northern Ireland move from Q1 to Q2.

 

Here's last season's access list showing the same thing;

 

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/access2010.html

[Dean Winchester]

Jeezo...think i will wait till the draw

 

Gets even worse then

[K1874M]

Wouldnt we get more tv money if we ended up 2nd? wouldn't it be a good load of kudos.... help attract more players...

 

Actually, if Im reading this correct...

 

Kickback has gone mad.

 

PS I think we will end up in 2nd... rangers are struggling.

[davemclaren]

Right, I think I've got this right;

 

Runner-up

If the SPL Winner, also wins the Scottish Cup, the SPL runner-up will enter the 4th Qualifying round IF this years Europa League winner is the domestic cup winner of either; England, Spain, Italy, Germany, France, Russia, Ukraine, Netherlands, Romania, Portugal, Turkey, Greece, Switzerland, Belgium or Denamrk,

or 5th placed finisher of England, Spain, Italy,

4th placed finisher of Germany, France or Russia,

3rd placed finisher of Ukraine, Romania or Portugal.

 

In addition, if this season's Champions League winner qualifies for Europe via one of these 22 positions, the runner-up will move up to QR4.

 

3rd

If the SPL Winner also wins the Scottish Cup, 3rd place in the SPL will enter the 3rd qualifying round with the cup runner-up or 4th place (if the RU has already qualified for Europe) will enter QR2 instead.

 

 

I think i'll just wait on Gambo organising a flight. I'll know then.

[Randy Marsh]

Hearts should be looking to make the group stages of next seasons Europa League at the very least.

 

A good example of why is proven by Lausanne-Sport in this seasons competition. Lausanne are not even in the top tier of Swiss football yet they managed to progress all the way to the groups stages without disgracing themselves by any means. They got into Europe by finishing runners up in their domestic cup and had to start off in the 2nd qualifying round.

 

If they can make the group stages then there is no reason why Hearts cant next season.

[Getintaethem]

Bert Kassie has us ranked 16th for next season's competitions. I dont think that can change now as the figures are taken from complete seasons only (i.e. this season doesnt count for next seasons European competitions) We would be ranked 15th for the FOLLOWING season as it stands at the moment. That MIGHT change if Rangers pick up a few more co-efficient points.

 

The season after that (2013) we are currently projected to be 27th !!!! (unless we have a good year next year that will be a disaster in terms of European football)

 

 

I don't think that dropping to 27th would matter too much in terms of actual numbers of qualifiers for Europe.

 

Countries ranked 10-15th get 2 champions league places and 3 Europa league spots.

Countries ranked 16-42nd get 1 champions league place and 3 Europa league spots.

[Dean Winchester]

Hearts should be looking to make the group stages of next seasons Europa League at the very least.

 

A good example of why is proven by Lausanne-Sport in this seasons competition. Lausanne are not even in the top tier of Swiss football yet they managed to progress all the way to the groups stages without disgracing themselves by any means. They got into Europe by finishing runners up in their domestic cup and had to start off in the 2nd qualifying round.

 

If they can make the group stages then there is no reason why Hearts cant next season.

 

All very well but have you seen the teams we can be up against in the 3rd and 4th round? We got off lightly last time against Zagreb IMO. To say Hearts should qualify for the group stages "at the least" when we could be up against teams like Juventus, Liverpool, Olympiakos in Q3 is absurd.

[Only a Game]

Hearts should be looking to make the group stages of next seasons Europa League at the very least.

 

A good example of why is proven by Lausanne-Sport in this seasons competition. Lausanne are not even in the top tier of Swiss football yet they managed to progress all the way to the groups stages without disgracing themselves by any means. They got into Europe by finishing runners up in their domestic cup and had to start off in the 2nd qualifying round.

 

If they can make the group stages then there is no reason why Hearts cant next season.

 

So one team did it against all the odds means that we should be doing it ?

 

I'll say it again, Borrussia Dortmund and the like only just made it into the seeded half off the 4th QR this season.

 

You will get the odd team who defy the seeding and the odds and make it, but the group stages of the Europa league are by no means a gimme for the likes of Hearts. As I said, it would be amongst the finest achievements in our entire history if we made it to the group stages. Only slightly bettered in European terms by our run to the Q-final against Bayern Munich. Your having a laugh if you think we're just going to rock up and stroll into it or if you think we are anything like good enough on paper to have that as a realistic goal.

[Randy Marsh]

All very well but have you seen the teams we can be up against in the 3rd and 4th round? We got off lightly last time against Zagreb IMO. To say Hearts should qualify for the group stages "at the least" when we could be up against teams like Juventus, Liverpool, Olympiakos in Q3 is absurd.

 

 

Okay fair point. Final playoff round at least. There were also plenty of beatable teams at that stage in this seasons tournament. Motherwell got knocked out by Odense. I would like to think we could beat them. All depends on a great deal of luck in the draw which you would have to say Well got this season.

[Only a Game]

Okay fair point. Final playoff round at least. There were also plenty of beatable teams at that stage in this seasons tournament. Motherwell got knocked out by Odense. I would like to think we could beat them. All depends on a great deal of luck in the draw which you would have to say Well got this season.

 

We SHOULD be able to get into Q4, unless we get a real bummer of a draw in Q3. Q4 is where we will go out in all probability because the tournament is deliberately set up for that to happen, so that only big teams with big fan bases and, most importantly, big TV audiences, get to the group stages. The odds are heavily stacked against "wee" teams like us and we'd have to improve our squad beyond recognition for next season to defy them IMO.

[pettigrewsstylist]

3rd place enters into the 2nd Qualifying round, this season it was played on the 15th and 22/23rd of July.

 

More reason to try and go for 2nd (or even 1st...)

 

 

this is my reading of the situation also

[pettigrewsstylist]

Draw for Europa League 2011/12 qualifying rnd 1 & 2

June 20th

 

Europa league 2nd round qualifying (where we would definitely be seeded)

1st leg 14th July

2nd Leg 21st July

 

3rd round (where we probably wont be seeded but might scrape in)

July 28th & August 4th

 

4th round (last one before the group stages and we definitely wont be seeded)

August 18th & 25th

 

 

As you say we wont be seeded in 4th round (its also called the Play Off Round),,,just take a look at last yrs play off round and you will see there is very little chance of us eseeing the groups(not that im suggesting you did say that of course )

[Spleedoink]

Most negative post in a while on here.

I agree,totally negative.