Why do i get this feeling its not over !

[Guest vanbasten1874]

Hands up it was a comprehensive hiding last night we got beat by the better team but its not the end, whose to say that we cant go on another run to propel us further up the table , we lost the battle but the war is not won .

[bn jambo]

Good Thread, you are spot on, this season is far from over , last night will hopefully be a massive kick up the arse for the players and staff.

Last time we were beaten in the league we went on an amazing run none of us expected hopefully we can do it again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8Ji5H61iMM&feature=related

[mahgrassyshoes]

Spot in VB. People are going on about how big the gap is now, but they seem to forget that after that Kilmarnock game it was 25 points. If everyone gets behind the team we can go on another good run. The season is not over unless everyone gives up, which seems to have happened on here.

 

'Mon the JT's!

[Ben Dover]

If you take a step back then the stats currently show that the Tic have played us twice at Darkhead, beating us comprehensively both times

In return we have played them once at Tynecastle, beating them comprehensively in that fixture

Therefore at the moment you could easily argue that it's simply nip and tuck

[Vlad-Stupid]

Better watch, this thread is far too realistic, the 'season's over brigade' will be along to piss on our chips soon

[Sergio Garcia]

I was thinking that on way home and this morning, twice we have went to their place and got done over, they have came to ours and got done over.

 

So for all the media saying we bottled it blah blah blah, can they not cast their mind backs to that game?

 

Speaking to Celtic fans its the best they played all season and it was a shambolic performance on our part so we need to pick ourselves off, dust ourselves off and get back on it.

[heartsfc_fan]

Neil Lennon said in one of his interviews last night after the match (something along the lines of) "Hearts are miles behind but it's not over"

 

 

 

"miles"?

 

 

 

 

29 Points is miles Neil. 10 points with a game in hand isn't

 

 

 

@rse.

 

 

Still 2 Old Firm games to go (well 3 if you include the cup). We're not out of it totally, yet.

[Craig Herbertson]

It was always an outside chance, its still an outside chance but the shows not over till the fat lady sings. Rangers were beaten 3-0 by a woeful Hibs team only a few weeks back.

[Statto]

The current league table looks like this;

 

Celtic P23 Pts 55

Rangers P21 Pts 50

Hearts P22 Pts 45

Killie P22 Pts 32

 

We still have 42% of the season remaining.

 

I said way back after we beat Celtic at Tynecastle, if we can be within five points off the top of the Premier League come the split, we'd have a chance.

 

We have eleven games to look to gain five or six points on Celtic and we have a game in hand.

 

I'm sort of glad we lost by a significant margin as opposed to an odd goal. We can't now say we were unlucky or it was a close game. It's perhaps a wake-up call to the team that we need to work hard every game to even challenge.

 

The media have now written off our title challenge.

 

"Normal service resumed" I read this morning. I hope the team reads every word of every newspaper this morning and instead of throwing in the towel and accepting it, they stand up for themselves and PROVE that they CAN do it by stepping out onto the football pitch and winning games.

[i8hibsh]

I'm happy with third and European football - starting with beating St Johnstone on Sat(hopefully).

 

To me 3rd is first as Glasgow FC do not exist.

 

We all get beat but it's about how you bounce back and react to it. We will find out Sat if the 'bubble' has burst.

[Alex]

Can't read this whole thread so apologise if I'm repeating or contradicting previous posts, but I'm disheartened by folk saying the season is over cos of this game. If we pick ourselves up and have another great run, the future can still be bright. 'mon JJ, get them sorted. :-)

[deejtee]

1/ "Season" clearly isn't over but anyone who believes that we are really still in the mix is taking too many happy pills.

2/ Cup exits were more the games that will prove to have damaged the excitement from now on as most of us would not have put money on a title.

3/ Squad is imbalanced

4/ JJ does seem to lack a plan B and has had a few hidings over the years from the old firm. Few sets of SPL fans would have accepted 4-0 from a middling to average Celtic as anything other that total crap.

5/ Back to reality of holding on to 3rd place and I wouldn't be surprised if there is a sale or two before the window shuts.

[The Merse]

I can't see us getting anything at Ibrox next week.

 

And if that is the case then we have zip zero chance of catching them.

[Shanks]

We are still in it, does anyone else think that if we are still challenging come the split they will hammer us with another away tie against celtic? It really wouldnt surprise me.

[shaun.lawson]

No, it's not over. There have been a number of examples in football of a side who got pummeled by a leading club, yet hung on in there anyway. Last season, Arsenal lost four out of four to United and Chelsea, and in the home games especially, the gap in class was frightening - yet against all logic, they kept bouncing back, and remained in the hunt until pretty late on.

 

Justifiably, the media are going to town on us today after last night's surrender. So what's the best way to shut them up? Start winning again - and in the process, lay some bogeys to rest given St Johnstone's recent record against us. In a sense, Saturday now becomes the biggest game of the season. Lose, and the spectres of what happened on another occasion we were riding high after a fantastic run and memorable defeat of one of the uglies, before getting cuffed 4-0 - Aberdeen in January '92 - will rear dispiritingly into view: we were comprehensively rumbled that day, and our campaign never recovered. But if we win, we can do something similar to 97/8: stay in contention by consistently beating the 'other nine', get our confidence back and at least keep things interesting.

 

Over to you, lads. Time to put last night behind you, and get back on the rails. Bring it on.

[Drylaw Hearts]

If we can pick ourselves up and win on Saturday and then take something from Ibrox then I would say it isn't over yet.

[Charlie-Brown]

No, it's not over. There have been a number of examples in football of a side who got pummeled by a leading club, yet hung on in there anyway. Last season, Arsenal lost four out of four to United and Chelsea, and in the home games especially, the gap in class was frightening - yet against all logic, they kept bouncing back, and remained in the hunt until pretty late on.

 

Justifiably, the media are going to town on us today after last night's surrender. So what's the best way to shut them up? Start winning again - and in the process, lay some bogeys to rest given St Johnstone's recent record against us. In a sense, Saturday now becomes the biggest game of the season. Lose, and the spectres of what happened on another occasion we were riding high after a fantastic run and memorable defeat of one of the uglies, before getting cuffed 4-0 - Aberdeen in January '92 - will rear dispiritingly into view: we were comprehensively rumbled that day, and our campaign never recovered. But if we win, we can do something similar to 97/8: stay in contention by consistently beating the 'other nine', get our confidence back and at least keep things interesting.

 

Over to you, lads. Time to put last night behind you, and get back on the rails. Bring it on.

 

yes I remember in 1997-98 we lost back to back games to the Old Firm just prior to Xmas having been on a previously very good run - one of them was a confidence sapping heavy 5-2 home defeat to Rangers and then as now our talk was of our bubble had burst and our title challenge was written off but JJ got the team to pick themselves up and keep plugging away kept ourselves near the top and by the next 3 times we face the OF we turned those defeats into 3 draws and we'd learned how to not lose against them and those 3 games staying unbeaten hugely helped our confidence and belief for the Cup Final showdown .... we gave up on the league too early that season though and in the latter games put all our energy & focus towards the Cup Final - this season we don't have that options so lets keep plugging away in the SPL and see how high we can finish. That might only be 3rd but lets make it a very good 3rd and anything higher is a bonus surely?

[The Don]

We are still in it, does anyone else think that if we are still challenging come the split they will hammer us with another away tie against celtic? It really wouldnt surprise me.

 

Spoke to a mate the other day about the split, both of us said we wouldnt be surprised to be away at Ibrox AND parkhead if we were still in with a shout of even splitting either of the uglies.

 

Back to the topic. I said on the match thread last night, I do not believe it is over just yet, a win Saturday and even if we manage to take something from Ibrox next week a draw say then that will be 10 points out of 15 over the difficult set of fixtures, going back to Killie away. How many people would have taken that if offered beforehand to them? I know i would have. Anyone who expected us to win every game needs a reality check, we were never going to go unbeaten till the end of the season, both the uglies will drop points. Our task is to secure 3 points against the teams below us and then see where things sit when it comes round to playing the OF again. Even though the league title may be a bit too far splitting them is possible, very possible.

 

A mark of a good team and challengers is how they bounce back after a setback, Saturday will tell us how this team are mentally, a good win and we will be back on track i believe, we also have to back the team, too many people after last night and still doing so have written us off and decided already our league campaign is over, we have to get right behind the team on Saturday.

[Jammy T]

In theory it isnt over

 

But the last two games have shown that Rangers and Celtic can play decent football and if they have both had their slump in form then no matter what we do we wont gain any more ground on them.

 

The problem I have is that the other teams in the league (save for Killie) appear to have gone backwards. Motherwell arent the same without Pa Broon, Utd are not what they were under Levein, Hibs are gash - etc etc

 

I cant see how the other teams in the league are going to get enough points from the OF to allow us to close in, whilst at the same time we win nearly every game.

 

Without Kyle playing I think JJ needs to be a little more creative with his team selection, in particular Stevenson as a forward.

 

Why cant you have Templeton in the hole in support of Elliott with Suso on the right? Or a front two with strikers in the roles? Why dont you have Robinson on the bench instead of Obua?

 

The last 3 games have seen our form wane without Kyle, if not the results. We need to look at this quite quickly if Kyle is out for another 2 or 3 games

[shaun.lawson]

yes I remember in 1997-98 we lost back to back games to the Old Firm just prior to Xmas having been on a previously very good run - one of them was a confidence sapping heavy 5-2 home defeat to Rangers and then as now our talk was of our bubble had burst and our title challenge was written off but JJ got the team to pick themselves up and keep plugging away kept ourselves near the top and by the next 3 times we face the OF we turned those defeats into 3 draws and we'd learned how to not lose against them and those 3 games staying unbeaten hugely helped our confidence and belief for the Cup Final showdown .... we gave up on the league too early that season though and in the latter games put all our energy & focus towards the Cup Final - this season we don't have that options so lets keep plugging away in the SPL and see how high we can finish. That might only be 3rd but lets make it a very good 3rd and anything higher is a bonus surely?

 

Exactly.

 

Hearts' 3-1 win at East End Park - where we'd lost twice that season already - immediately following the back to back OF defeats, was one of the outstanding results of the whole campaign. It represented a great big "**** you!" to the critics, and got us straight back in the race, where we remained until April. If 1991/2 represented the wrong way in which to react to a cuffing, 1997/8 was the right way to do it.

 

The other point is this. We're currently so far clear of fourth place that there's a scenario in which we become detached from the top two, but miles clear in 3rd... whereby, with no Cup campaign to distract us, the players could lose motivation and form over the final phase of the season, something which could continue into 2011/12. The longer term aim has to be for us to hit the ground running at the start of next season, and to do even better - but when non-OF clubs find themselves where we are, the opposite almost always results. It's up to us to ensure the last couple of months haven't been a one-off: it needs to be the start of something bigger.

[rossthejambo]

I can't see us getting anything at Ibrox next week.

 

And if that is the case then we have zip zero chance of catching them.

 

If we get beat next week then I'd say you're right, the damage will unfortunately have been done. However, having seen the majority of the Rangers game last night we have zip zero to fear. They are hopeless.

 

If we can pick ourselves up and give a solid performance on Saturday and get the 3 points then I think we can go there and give them a game. We need to stop persevering with Stevenson up front on his own though. It just doesn't work.

[heartsfc_fan]

I'll try and lighten the mood a tad. Last season we finished the season after playing 38 league games with....48 points.

 

 

We're currently on 45.

 

 

Pretty damn good doing if you ask me.

[williamgerrard]

Were down but by no means out WE WILL BACK we need to freshin the team up and try n get rid of some players and bring some in my team would be

 

Kello

C.thomson Zal Bouzid Wallace

 

suso Black Skacel Temps/driver *

 

Eliott Glenn/kyle*

 

if fit *

 

I would get rid off calum elliot ,aboua,mole

 

And bring in a defender.attackmid, striker to replace kyle

[Ben Dover]

If we get beat next week then I'd say you're right, the damage will unfortunately have been done. However, having seen the majority of the Rangers game last night we have zip zero to fear. They are hopeless.

 

If we can pick ourselves up and give a solid performance on Saturday and get the 3 points then I think we can go there and give them a game. We need to stop persevering with Stevenson up front on his own though. It just doesn't work.

 

I'm sure we played him there before and it was like 'being a man short'

Maybe we should have just 'parked the bus' ?

[rossthejambo]

I'm sure we played him there before and it was like 'being a man short'

Maybe we should have just 'parked the bus' ?

 

Or we could have played Glen up front with Elliott and had a bloody go instead of having nothing up front. We might have still got beat but we'd have been more of a threat.

 

Elliott needs a partner up front. Stevenson will never be able to play that role, I like him and think he can do a job in the middle of the park but he is not a lone striker,

[Gizmo]

...

The other point is this. We're currently so far clear of fourth place that there's a scenario in which we become detached from the top two, but miles clear in 3rd... whereby, with no Cup campaign to distract us, the players could lose motivation and form over the final phase of the season, something which could continue into 2011/12. The longer term aim has to be for us to hit the ground running at the start of next season, and to do even better - but when non-OF clubs find themselves where we are, the opposite almost always results. It's up to us to ensure the last couple of months haven't been a one-off: it needs to be the start of something bigger.

 

This is exactly what I thought in 2006 when the bookies were even quoting for the league "outwith the big three".

 

As much as we all want to win the league this season, long term game has to be to establish us as almost inevitably the third team each and every season, and use that platform/consistency to build a challenge. It worked for us in the Cups - JJ kept knocking on the door until eventually we learned to win. And remember, the old firm back in '98 were immeasurably better than they are now - our '98 team would walk this year's league without a shadow of a doubt.

[Craig Herbertson]

The current league table looks like this;

 

Celtic P23 Pts 55

Rangers P21 Pts 50

Hearts P22 Pts 45

Killie P22 Pts 32

 

We still have 42% of the season remaining.

 

I said way back after we beat Celtic at Tynecastle, if we can be within five points off the top of the Premier League come the split, we'd have a chance.

 

We have eleven games to look to gain five or six points on Celtic and we have a game in hand.

 

I'm sort of glad we lost by a significant margin as opposed to an odd goal. We can't now say we were unlucky or it was a close game. It's perhaps a wake-up call to the team that we need to work hard every game to even challenge.

 

The media have now written off our title challenge.

 

"Normal service resumed" I read this morning. I hope the team reads every word of every newspaper this morning and instead of throwing in the towel and accepting it, they stand up for themselves and PROVE that they CAN do it by stepping out onto the football pitch and winning games.

 

 

Spot on. It's a setback. We lost a game but we won loads before it. Just got to get behind the team again.

[Gambo]

No way is it over after one defeat. Still a long way to go and celtic and rangers will drop many points.

[chimpto]

I agree with the OP here.

 

I think it was three points gained by Celtic last night as opposed to three points dropped by us.

 

I didn't expect a result last night to be honest and it should in no way be seen as the end of our season.

 

If someone had said to the majority of fans, that by the end of January we'd be pushing the top two fairly hard, and be securley in third place, they'd have taken that... I think...

[Fourcandles]

I can't see us getting anything at Ibrox next week.

 

And if that is the case then we have zip zero chance of catching them.

 

 

a)Suicidal pessimism - its all over 'crash and burn.'(As per quite a few other threads)

 

b)Optimism - 'Who's to say we wont go on another similar run' (As per this thread)

 

c)We go back to the 'mixed form' i.e. as we were prior to the good run.

 

 

Most likely to be c) IMO.

[Sraman]

I agree with the OP here.

 

I think it was three points gained by Celtic last night as opposed to three points dropped by us.

 

I didn't expect a result last night to be honest and it should in no way be seen as the end of our season.

 

If someone had said to the majority of fans, that by the end of January we'd be pushing the top two fairly hard, and be securley in third place, they'd have taken that... I think...

 

 

After getting hammered 0-3 by Kilmarnock I would have been glad with scraping into the top 6. This run has been fantastic and, as it stands, we are set up nicely for third place. There is a long way to go though, so I think we should just keep an eye on those behind us and ensure they don't catch up rather than looking at the uglies in front of us. At least the view is better that way, and if we keep plugging away you never know what may happen.

[jblair182]

Celtic's next 5 SPL Games:

 

Aberdeen(a)

Dundee United (a)

Rangers (h)

Motherwell(a)

Kilmarnock(a)

 

Tricky run of fixtures.

[heartsfc_fan]

Celtic's next 5 SPL Games:

 

Aberdeen(a)

Dundee United (a)

Rangers (h)

Motherwell(a)

Kilmarnock(a)

 

Tricky run of fixtures.

 

 

Very tough!

[Ray Winstone]

The last time we got a hiding it spurred us on to a fantastic winning streak.

 

Maybe it is just what the team and Jefferies needed to give them a reality check.

 

And we still have the big man to come back.....

 

[Jamhammer]

Celtic's next 5 SPL Games:

 

Aberdeen(a)

Dundee United (a)

Rangers (h)

Motherwell(a)

Kilmarnock(a)

 

Tricky run of fixtures.

 

To be fair they could well lose a couple of them. Fingers crossed.

[deejtee]

The fact that Celtic's run of fixtures is seen as tricky for them underlines that they are absolutely not unbeatable and how bad the result was last night. Unfortunately we have gone off the boil due to a number of circumstances including our apparent difficulty in constucting a team without Kyle and therefore even if Celtic do drop points the reality is that we will too.

[Taffin]

I would maybe think about playing 442 again, with Skacel on the left and Temps/Suso on the right. I know Skacel's pace has gone a bit but with Wallace behind him it would provide a really good quality left side, the cm would be big enough to not get overun with maybe Mroviec and Black. Our threat would then come from 2 forwards and the right, but also the left through quality alone.

 

Might not work, but currently our formation has been found out and often look like we are playing with no right/left midfielder.

[Charlie-Brown]

a)Suicidal pessimism - its all over 'crash and burn.'(As per quite a few other threads)

 

b)Optimism - 'Who's to say we wont go on another similar run' (As per this thread)

 

c)We go back to the 'mixed form' i.e. as we were prior to the good run.

 

 

Most likely to be c) IMO.

 

football teams & players & managers sometimes have exceptionally good or exceptionally bad spells of form and results - generally the tend to perform approximately just above or just below their average level of performance.

 

We taken 31 points from the last 36 available which is truly exceptional champinship form = 2.59pts per game - if we were to keep up that kind of form from now until the end of season we would have approx 86-87 points after 38 games.

 

If you look at our total season thus far points per game average (45/22) = 2.05pts per game then if we keep up that average we can expect approx 77-78 points by the end of the season which would exceed our 2nd place 74pts total achieved in 2005-06.

 

Jim Jefferies overall average during his spell at Hearts is approx 1.5pts per game - taking that forward from here until the end of the season we would have 69 points which in almost every SPL season bar 1 has comfortably been enough to secure 3rd place.

[williamgerrard]

BREAKING NEWS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I havent heard the bell sound yet down but defintly not out get kyle n driver back then we can bounce right back we still have far less games to play than the oldfirm they will still drop points 1 defeat in 12 games aint bad lets bounce back come on the hearts if and its a big if we win our next 2 games we could go 2nd albeit played a game more its still possible

[shaun.lawson]

 

Jim Jefferies overall average during his spell at Hearts is approx 1.5pts per game - taking that forward from here until the end of the season we would have 69 points which in almost every SPL season bar 1 has comfortably been enough to secure 3rd place.

 

This is what I anticipate to be honest. 69 points or thereabouts - 20 or so behind Celtic, 12-15 behind Rangers, a dozen or so ahead of 4th - sounds right to me.

[Charlie-Brown]

This is what I anticipate to be honest. 69 points or thereabouts - 20 or so behind Celtic, 12-15 behind Rangers, a dozen or so ahead of 4th - sounds right to me.

 

Even if we collapsed back to last season dire form of (48/38) 1.27pts per game from here on would still see us gather about 65 points in total which is usually comfortably good enough to be 3rd place most seasons.

[henry]

The team that hammered us last night are the same one that scored a last minute goal to get a

draw against the bottom club in the spl 3 weeks ago.

 

celtic are no great shakes and jj must get this message into the players heads so we can continue

the fight. If we can win on saturday we will be 7 points behind them with them still to come to Tynecastle.

[vintage1874]

We got a real doing last night but there is still a lot to play for. Lets put this behind and take one game at a time starting with St J with weekend its a must win to get things back on track.

[Alex]

We got a real doing last night but there is still a lot to play for. Lets put this behind and take one game at a time starting with St J with weekend its a must win to get things back on track.

 

 

[gowestjambo]

If you take a step back then the stats currently show that the Tic have played us twice at Darkhead, beating us comprehensively both times

In return we have played them once at Tynecastle, beating them comprehensively in that fixture

Therefore at the moment you could easily argue that it's simply nip and tuck

 

If you were completely naive, that would be the case..........

 

We were 2 up at Tynecastle, and sat back holding what we had. They dominated the last 20 minutes. The difference is in the mentality of the teams - do they sit back at 2 up?

[dookychook]

If you were completely naive, that would be the case..........

 

We were 2 up at Tynecastle, and sat back holding what we had. They dominated the last 20 minutes. The difference is in the mentality of the teams - do they sit back at 2 up?

 

lennon is still their manager. He's p*sh. We have 42% (oops) of the season to play and our recent run was as good as anything the old firm has acheived this season. Get the same points in the next 12 games as our last 12 and we should be in the mix.

 

Celtic park is a very difficult ground to win at when the home fans feel threatened...they've beaten some decent european teams in recent years. So take it as a compliment that they saw us as a threat and raised their game. But we were as bad as we'll ever be this season.

 

This isn't over in the slightest.

[Juan Rom?n Riquelme]

Only 7 points if we win our game in hand. Still got a wee chance if some results go our way.

[Statto]

Here, we'll look in detail at each of the clubs' games up until the end of February;

 

Celtic;

Aberdeen A - won 9-0 followed by 1-0 at home, Aberdeen improving DRAW

Dundee U A - won 2-1 away, held 1-1 at home, disappointing season WIN

Rangers H - lost 3-1 at home, won 2-0 away, R'gers lost key player WIN

Motherwell A - won 1-0 both home and away, both close games DRAW

Statto predicition: 8 points

 

Rangers;

Hearts H - won 2-1 away earlier in season, lost 1-0 away recently DRAW

Motherwell H - won 4-1 both home and away, comfortable wins WIN

Celtic A - won 3-1 away, lost 2-0 at home, LOSE

St Johnstone H - won 2-1 at home, unbeaten in 5, will be another close game but WIN

Statto predicition: 7 points

 

Hearts;

St Johnstone H - draw 1-1 at home earlier in season, won 2-0 away recently WIN

Rangers A - lost 2-1 at home and won 1-0 recently at home, DRAW

Hamilton A - won 4-0 away and 2-0 at home, WIN

Dundee U H - draw 1-1 at home early in the season WIN

Aberdeen A - won 5-0 at home, 1-0 away, Aberdeen improving DRAW

Statto prediction: 11 points

 

 

The table would look like this at the end of February;

 

Celtic P27 Pts 63

Rangers P25 Pts 57

Hearts P27 Pts 56

 

A win at Rangers would be a bonus but we really should be looking to avoid defeat in Glasgow. The home games are must wins as is the game at Hamilton, the Aberdeen one will be interesting.

 

We'd need to gain a further three points on both halves of the OF between then and the split to be in with a realistic chance IMO. I had said previously we need to be within five points of the leaders but Celtic now have a 20 goals difference which is practically another point. I now feel we need to be within four points at the split.

 

 

We need to just look at it one-game-at-a-time, if we lose one game against a team below us in the next 10 games, I'd have to admit defeat in the quest for the title, 2nd would still be on but the big one would be over.

St Johnstone on Saturday is where it starts.

[Buffalo Bill]

We're certainly not out of it but our defeat at Celtic was a real blow to our title desires; a six-pointer gone wrong.

 

 

Even if we were ten points clear, I'd still be trying to talk down our hopes.

 

 

But ten points behind? That's a tall order to say the least.

 

 

For us to have any chance, we need to be at the very least, five points off the top come the split. Now if we can win this game in hand, that takes the gap to seven. So it's not impossible; just made much more difficult by Wednesday's result.

[yabadabadoo1874again]

1/ "Season" clearly isn't over but anyone who believes that we are really still in the mix is taking too many happy pills.

2/ Cup exits were more the games that will prove to have damaged the excitement from now on as most of us would not have put money on a title.

3/ Squad is imbalanced

4/ JJ does seem to lack a plan B and has had a few hidings over the years from the old firm. Few sets of SPL fans would have accepted 4-0 from a middling to average Celtic as anything other that total crap.

5/ Back to reality of holding on to 3rd place and I wouldn't be surprised if there is a sale or two before the window shuts.

 

 

Point number 4 is spot on. Plan B AWOL in the big games, JJ's achilles heel.