Diadora Van Basten Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 A few years back when Celtic and Rangers were talking about going to the English premiership a certain old firm pundit stated that the old firm are Scottish football and it would die without them. It would appear that the sfa believe this to be true and are willing to ignore the views of the vast majority of fans to implement a ten team league. As a fan of hearts I really don't care that much about who we play but do not want to watch hearts play each team four times a season. As this is the reality of Scottish football for the foreseeable future then perhaps we should apply to join a more successful league structure that is not run out of Glasgow to suit the old firm. Advantages no bigot fans no Scottish refs only play same team twice fa cup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad-Stupid Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Bottom line is the EFA wouldn't entertain the idea and if they did, it would be pretty dull rattling about in the lower leagues down there. Better to be a big fish in a small pond IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Le Clos Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 No. We would only be a couple of bad seasons away from League 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diadora Van Basten Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share Posted January 20, 2011 I think it Is possible as welsh teams play in England and unlike the arrogant old firm we wouldn't be asking to join in the prem. I would think we would soon be of standard that would be bottom half of championship top half of league one. This would mean playing in a twenty four team league with six teams involved in promotion and four in relegation. I think that would be quite exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilston angel Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 No. We would only be a couple of bad seasons away from League 2. Maybe farfetched but could we not run a second team through the English non league and gain promotion into the leagues proper. We are always complaining about no suitable games for reserve and youth players. The problem would come when to make the big decision to take the plunge with the full club. Maybe its not feasible and I'm just dreaming anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djh83 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Nah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.J Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hartleys_Jam_Tart Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandt Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Even having to starting in League 2, there would still be a huge amount if excitement being in the English league. If we got to the championship, our attendances would go through the roof. We would be the envy of every club in Scotland! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Mate, the English have precisely zero interest in the Old Firm moving there so why on earth would they want a club a fraction of their size? I've seen some dodgy ideas in my time on here but this one is out there to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo Hoggie Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 The thought did cross my mind about getting out as Scottish football is so crap, corrupt and run by a bunch of clowns who only think whats best for the uglies and to hell with everybody else but it will never happen. Shame really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobmisterdobster Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 NO! Absolutley Not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandt Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Mate, the English have precisely zero interest in the Old Firm moving there so why on earth would they want a club a fraction of their size? If seen some dodgy ideas in my time on here but this one is out there to say the least. Same could be said for Swansea, Wrexam etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Same could be said for Swansea, Wrexam etc. No, it couldn't. They've played in the English Leagues pretty much since they came into existence. When was the last time a team from within the UK moved into another nations' league? There's no precedent and there's no chance of it happening. It was stupid when the Old Firm sugggested it and it's even more so Hearts even considering the possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Frazer Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 no chance the old firm would struugle in the championship i reckon we'd struggle to get out of league 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 We've been tellling the OF for years they are going nowhere. It's a peach from the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FromDownSouth Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 First post, so be gentle! The Welsh clubs play in the English league because there is no professional league in the principality. I believe they are ineligible to qualify for Europe, however. Hearts are a Scottish club and should remain in the Scottish league, in my opinion. That goes for the Old Firm as well - though whether Celtic are strictly Scottish is perhaps a matter of debate. As for how Hearts would do in England, well I remember when West Brom attracted 13,000 every week and they're now a Premiership club. Hearts definitely have the potential to survive in the Premiership, in terms of the income potential (which is what it boils down to) - I recall 30,000+ at Murrayfield for the Champions League qualifiers, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedbump Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 No, it couldn't. They've played in the English Leagues pretty much since they came into existence. When was the last time a team from within the UK moved into another nations' league? There's no precedent and there's no chance of it happening. It was stupid when the Old Firm sugggested it and it's even more so Hearts even considering the possibility. Derry City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommythejambo Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 no chance the old firm would struugle in the championship i reckon we'd struggle to get out of league 2 Struggle to get out of league 2? LOL, just LOL. You ever seen League 2 mate? Wouldn't want to move to England though, plus it would never happen. Imagine a whole season without a derby (like 11/12), no Celtic and no Rangers...DULL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FromDownSouth Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Derry City. That might be considered a special case. This is from Wikipedia: In 1971, security concerns related to unrest in Northern Ireland meant matches could not be played at the Brandywell. The team played "home" fixtures 30 miles (48 km) away in Coleraine. Security forces withdrew their objections to the use of the Brandywell the following year, but in the face of insistence from the Irish League that the unsustainable arrangement continue, the club withdrew from the league. After 13 years in junior football, it joined the League of Ireland's new First Division for 1985?86. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john brownlee Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss brilliant idea maybe five years to get to the premier league I could wait that long Mr Romanov has really wasted five years trying to gub the squirm I believe it could be possible, remembering if we did we would be the only scottish team there, look at the potential in that. I believe it would mean overall bigger crowds bigger better players getting to be a bigger and better club year on year. better and even TV coverage even when we were in the old first division we could still command good crowds, I'm sure our fans would not desert us if they could see a future in moving south,a winning team gets better crowds and I could not see Hearts losing this one. A first for all more coverage in the english papers for our far removed jocks. (I remember having to buy the sun on a monday morning to read a paragraph about scottish football) That 40,000 stadium could be more that a pipe dream. Those that say engerland would not want us, well I bet if we started in one of the lower leagues they would be creaming themselves at the thought of meeting the mighty JT's as someone said look at cardiff and swansea a bit of investment and look at how their doing it's not an uncommon thing in engerland for teams to do a gretna. watford, the tractors to name a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Derry City. I wasn't aware of that. Mid 80's it says on wiki that they moved. OK, as you sort of have a point, there's no precedent of a team moving to English football in the modern era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley_ Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 no chance the old firm would struugle in the championship i reckon we'd struggle to get out of league 2 Completely disagree. If we were in England we'd get more money and improve our squad. Look at the attendances of clubs in League 2. We are bigger than all of them. Same for League 1 apart from Southampton and Sheffield Wednesday who are playing far below the level they historically have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon the jambo Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 The thought did cross my mind about getting out as Scottish football is so crap, corrupt and run by a bunch of clowns who only think whats best for the uglies and to hell with everybody else but it will never happen. Shame really. Well said that JAMBO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FromDownSouth Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 It will NEVER happen. The best one could hope for is a European Super League...otherwise we should concentrate on consolidating our place as Scotland's third biggest club and then trying to regularly split the Old Firm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Lighter Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Didn't Gretna play in England before joining the SFL? When we beat Millwall pre season the common consensus on their forums was that we were better than anything the Championship had to offer and we'd piss all over their league,I'd have to take their word on that as I don't watch Championship football,but if the Wigans and Blackpools of this world can make it to the EPL it's not unreasonable to think we could do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysthereinspirit Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 We'd be hit with a "bringing the game into disrepute charge" quicker than you could say mod edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Marsh Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I am interested to know how Gretna FC were in the English football system before they entered the Scottish 3rd division? They are a Scottish team after all. They actually got to the 3rd round of the FA Cup in the early 1990's and played Bolton I am sure. The amazing thing about Gretna then was that they were only 2 tiers below the football league before they resigned. I think the OP has a good point. The main problem with the Old Firm's bid to play in England was due to their ignorance and wanting into the Premiership straight away. I am sure they could have started right at the bottom of the non-league set up. Perhaps we should go for it by agreeing to start at the very bottom and working our way up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 A few years back when Celtic and Rangers were talking about going to the English premiership a certain old firm pundit stated that the old firm are Scottish football and it would die without them. It would appear that the sfa believe this to be true and are willing to ignore the views of the vast majority of fans to implement a ten team league. As a fan of hearts I really don't care that much about who we play but do not want to watch hearts play each team four times a season. As this is the reality of Scottish football for the foreseeable future then perhaps we should apply to join a more successful league structure that is not run out of Glasgow to suit the old firm. Advantages no bigot fans no Scottish refs only play same team twice fa cup Suggested this in the stone age of kickback, when the forum had just been invented Got an internet kicking for it, but still believe it is in the best long term interests and would stick it right up the noses of the OF and Hibs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 ....and the biggest argument in favour is the popularity of edinburgh with the English - we would be guaranteed a full away end every game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley_ Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I am interested to know how Gretna FC were in the English football system before they entered the Scottish 3rd division? They are a Scottish team after all. They actually got to the 3rd round of the FA Cup in the early 1990's and played Bolton I am sure. The amazing thing about Gretna then was that they were only 2 tiers below the football league before they resigned. I think the OP has a good point. The main problem with the Old Firm's bid to play in England was due to their ignorance and wanting into the Premiership straight away. I am sure they could have started right at the bottom of the non-league set up. Perhaps we should go for it by agreeing to start at the very bottom and working our way up. Gretna is obviously a different case with them being on the border. Just like Berwick Rangers being English but being in the Scottish league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Nope. Although I am not a nationalist, we are a Scottish club and we have emotional and moral ties with ourt local community (and across Scotland). If we want to play at a higher level, then we've got to win more games and qualify for Europe consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilston angel Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I am interested to know how Gretna FC were in the English football system before they entered the Scottish 3rd division? They are a Scottish team after all. They actually got to the 3rd round of the FA Cup in the early 1990's and played Bolton I am sure. The amazing thing about Gretna then was that they were only 2 tiers below the football league before they resigned. I think the OP has a good point. The main problem with the Old Firm's bid to play in England was due to their ignorance and wanting into the Premiership straight away. I am sure they could have started right at the bottom of the non-league set up. Perhaps we should go for it by agreeing to start at the very bottom and working our way up. That was my point exactly, entering into non league with a effectively a reserve side initially and if promoted we would then be in on merit that's a lot different than asking to be included in the Premier or Championship which the OF want. I know its a huge leap in the dark, a tremendous gamble but the prize could be that big investment could be forthcoming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf's Mate Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Completely disagree. If we were in England we'd get more money and improve our squad. Look at the attendances of clubs in League 2. We are bigger than all of them. Same for League 1 apart from Southampton and Sheffield Wednesday who are playing far below the level they historically have. Charlton & Huddersfield (just) also fit into that bracket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley_ Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Charlton & Huddersfield (just) also fit into that bracket. Yeah, you're right. I was thinking we we had a 15,000 odd average attendance for some reason. Still, those clubs could easily be in the Championship or higher and they get higher crowds than a few of the Championship teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambopompey Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Nope. Although I am not a nationalist, we are a Scottish club and we have emotional and moral ties with ourt local community (and across Scotland). If we want to play at a higher level, then we've got to win more games and qualify for Europe consistently. exactamundu bud, and do well in europe at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf's Mate Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Yeah, you're right. I was thinking we we had a 15,000 odd average attendance for some reason. Still, those clubs could easily be in the Championship or higher and they get higher crowds than a few of the Championship teams. Totally agree mate and I think it would be more promising to have 4 teams with those kind of average gates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diadora Van Basten Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share Posted January 20, 2011 To turn the question on it's head what would I miss if Hearts joined English football? The answer is the derbys and European football apart from that not much. For European football we only ever reach Europe every other year and given the seeding system that FIFA have its unlikely that we will make it past a couple of rounds. For the derbys we have completely dominated them against against a team whose history consists of a fluke result 38 years ago and a Scottish cup win 110 years ago. Are these really worth putting up with the same dull Scottish Prem League games over the next twenty odd years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I am interested to know how Gretna FC were in the English football system before they entered the Scottish 3rd division? They are a Scottish team after all. They actually got to the 3rd round of the FA Cup in the early 1990's and played Bolton I am sure. The amazing thing about Gretna then was that they were only 2 tiers below the football league before they resigned. I think the OP has a good point. The main problem with the Old Firm's bid to play in England was due to their ignorance and wanting into the Premiership straight away. I am sure they could have started right at the bottom of the non-league set up. Perhaps we should go for it by agreeing to start at the very bottom and working our way up. No, they couldn't - UEFA has already said they would not allow this, so can't see them changing the rules for us. Added to that, the English would have no interest in us joining. I think the Gretna thing is different because they were non league in England Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussAsia Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 No, they couldn't - UEFA has already said they would not allow this, so can't see them changing the rules for us. Added to that, the English would have no interest in us joining. I think the Gretna thing is different because they were non league in England The whole point is that we would also be non-league in England.. i have always thought this is probably the best way to go for us.. We would never even need to resign from the Scottish League.. at the start have our youth teams play in the non leagues and try to get us up as far as possible.. then when necessary put our full team down south into the English league and have our youth teams playing in the Scottish league.. i honestly think with the players we will be able to attract our 2nd/youth team could hold their own in the SPL.. the main problem would be with where we would play if we got into a decent league in England and we were still in the SPL.. Tynecastle couldnt hold 1/2 games per weekend without turning into a marsh.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo_nick Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 A few years back when Celtic and Rangers were talking about going to the English premiership a certain old firm pundit stated that the old firm are Scottish football and it would die without them. It would appear that the sfa believe this to be true and are willing to ignore the views of the vast majority of fans to implement a ten team league. As a fan of hearts I really don't care that much about who we play but do not want to watch hearts play each team four times a season. As this is the reality of Scottish football for the foreseeable future then perhaps we should apply to join a more successful league structure that is not run out of Glasgow to suit the old firm. Advantages no bigot fans no Scottish refs only play same team twice fa cup Are you high? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Hearts away at Hillsborough and Elland Road, or New Douglas Park and St Mirren Stadium. Lets go to England boys, I'l bring the beers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mre Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Hearts away at Hillsborough and Elland Road, or New Douglas Park and St Mirren Stadium. Lets go to England boys, I'l bring the beers! I'm in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bainy Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I don't see what is wrong with league two in England? Its probably a wealthier league than the SPL and gets bigger crowds than most SPL matches attract, and the standard can't be any worse than were watching in the SPL right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mre Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I don't see what is wrong with league two in England? Its probably a wealthier league than the SPL and gets bigger crowds than most SPL matches attract, and the standard can't be any worse than were watching in the SPL right now. We would breeze through leagues one and two, consolidate in the championship and then push for the premier league within 5 years. Imagine Scotlands capital with a team in the best league in the world (possibly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mre Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 We would breeze through leagues two and one, consolidate in the championship and then push for the premier league within 5 years. Imagine Scotlands capital with a team in the best league in the world (possibly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argyjambo Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Guys, its a complete non-starter as far as I'm concerned, also as far as UEFA & the EPL are concerned too! The only way I see it happening, & its a big if, is when Scottish professional football implodes & apart from say 8 clubs, all the rest go part-time. We can play around with the league structure all we want, the simple truth is that outside these 8 clubs or so there simply is no viable market for Scottish Football. I just wonder how many fans like me, also subscribe to Sky Sports & have the pick of top class football (well sometimes) to the point of overkill. I think the only way we are likely to see us playing against English sides on a regular basis is if UEFA cave in to major clubs & the TV companies & allow a pan european league perhaps on a franchise basis. Just Imagine a franchise in Edinburgh based at Murrayfield, backed by massively increased TV money & most importantly backed by the city's major fanancial players. Dunno about the rest of you but I'd love to see Arsenal Spurs Chelsea man Utd Man city Newcastle etc appearing at Murrayfield every other week. A halfway successful Edinburgh team would sell out the stadium every week. Yes the traditionalists would hate it, but local sides represented by Hibs & hearts could play in the Scottish league as feeder sides to the franchise. Look at the way our lives have changed in the last 40 years in terms of society, industries, politics, entertainment why should football be any different. I believe it will come & maybe a lot sooner that I might imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Dover Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Guys, its a complete non-starter as far as I'm concerned, also as far as UEFA & the EPL are concerned too! The only way I see it happening, & its a big if, is when Scottish professional football implodes & apart from say 8 clubs, all the rest go part-time. We can play around with the league structure all we want, the simple truth is that outside these 8 clubs or so there simply is no viable market for Scottish Football. I just wonder how many fans like me, also subscribe to Sky Sports & have the pick of top class football (well sometimes) to the point of overkill. I think the only way we are likely to see us playing against English sides on a regular basis is if UEFA cave in to major clubs & the TV companies & allow a pan european league perhaps on a franchise basis. Just Imagine a franchise in Edinburgh based at Murrayfield, backed by massively increased TV money & most importantly backed by the city's major fanancial players. Dunno about the rest of you but I'd love to see Arsenal Spurs Chelsea man Utd Man city Newcastle etc appearing at Murrayfield every other week. A halfway successful Edinburgh team would sell out the stadium every week. Yes the traditionalists would hate it, but local sides represented by Hibs & hearts could play in the Scottish league as feeder sides to the franchise. Look at the way our lives have changed in the last 40 years in terms of society, industries, politics, entertainment why should football be any different. I believe it will come & maybe a lot sooner that I might imagine. Just for arguments sake. This issue was raised at the time the English sides were to discuss the possibility of the OF joining the EPL. UEFAs stance was not to immediately blow it out the water but that it was MORE a decision for the FAs concerned? To be honest I think they saw it as a none starter anyway and just didn't want to get involved at that stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homme Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 English fans would LOVE edinburgh for an away day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Should we play in England? No, because we are a Scottish football team. I know this might be a difficult concept for some people on here to grasp, but seriously, come on. Why don't we just scrap the Scottish National team whilst we're at it? Just play as England because we *might* have more "success" that way? It will never happen, thankfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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