SPL Meeting

[buba]

I would question how much money is on the table. People talk about better distribution of wealth as though teams are going to start getting an extra 5m a season.

 

. For instance the team that wins the first division gets ?70,000 at the moment and the team that finished bottom gets ?0

 

Under the new proposals the team that wins the spl2 will now get ?600,000 and the team that finishes bottom of spl2 will still get ?250,000. Plus any teams that get relegated from the spl to the spl2 under league reconstution will get 4 years of parachute payments as well. Not a bad deal for the likes of Hamilton and st mirren.

[Socrates]

You get some right dire weekends of football in the Premiership too.

 

There's dire, and then there's an 18 team SPL programme imo. Even in a dire week in the Premiership, they probably get something that they can work with - Man City v Aston Villa or something like that.

[Socrates]

Blanket live coverage greatly devalues SPL matches and is helping to drive down attendances.

 

Is that actually true? Has anyone actually found out how much we lose in attendance if a game is televised? My feeling is that the games that are usually televised are the games against Celtic, Rangers and Hibs, which are sell outs or pretty close to it.

[The Merse]

I'm still not sure any format is really going to make a difference.

 

Scottish culture still has a huge underlying sectarian element to it and that will always draw bigger crowds to the bigot brothers. Add do that that teams that win stuff all the time attract glory hunters and then trying to compete with clubs who get 3 times your average gate is just nigh on impossible.

 

10, 12, 16, 18 or 20 - it makes not a jot of difference imo.

[rossthejambo]

There's dire, and then there's an 18 team SPL programme imo. Even in a dire week in the Premiership, they probably get something that they can work with - Man City v Aston Villa or something like that.

 

I'm sure they could put together some sort of programme that would result in a half decent game every other week. it's hardly rocket science. In fairness they're hardly fussed anyway considering they'll always be showing OF away games.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Blanket live coverage greatly devalues SPL matches and is helping to drive down attendances. Fans are the core customer of SPL clubs NOT Sky or ESPN so decisions should be made that take consideration of the core customers and football people not the vested commercial interests of television broadcasters.

 

Until TV companies lose interest and/or grealy reduce their offer as the product continues to be even more shabby than before - continued decline and falling attendances are inevitable. High ticket prices, too many repetitive fixtures, poor product quality are cited as reasons why fans stay away - allied to the fact you can see most teams several times per season on TV anyway and there is little or nothing to attract supporters back to the stadium. Now you can add to that list the clubs obviously don't give a feck about supporters and take them for granted.

 

It took the financial collapse of Kurch TV Conglomerate before the Bundesliga clubs had to re-invent their product to make it appealing to their true customer ie the fans and this was supporter friendly lower ticket prices, more german players / younger players instead of too many over-priced & foreign players .... until such drastic measures are taken in Scotland there will be reversing decline.

 

It appears there are at least 11 SPL Chairman/Owners out there that disagree with you.

 

All the clubs have got themselves into a position where the TV money goes a long way to there survival and spending budgets.

 

You're alternative is based on the guarantee that fans will start miraculously flooding back to football and make-up for the shortfall in revenue.

 

A pipe-dream imo.

[ToadKiller Dog]

If you can show me that we will still be competative in games against the old firm and we wont fall back to regular drubbings (4-0s and 3-0s)as the old firm regain there strength . One of the decent things of recent years is that teams can get results against the Uglies will that continue when relegation is a realistic threat for 8 clubs at the start of every season ? .

 

Really need to see the proposed financial benifits and if the increase would be worth it , I am not convinced . Football wise all i see is a return to negative football and stopping dead in its tracks a revival in starting to produce a larger crop of decent young talent .

[Socrates]

It appears there are at least 11 SPL Chairman/Owners out there that disagree with you.

 

All the clubs have got themselves into a position where the TV money goes a long way to there survival and spending budgets.

 

You're alternative is based on the guarantee that fans will start miraculously flooding back to football and make-up for the shortfall in revenue.

 

A pipe-dream imo.

I don't want to put words in his mouth, but, from previous discussions, I think Charlie thinks less money in the game would be good, because it would force teams to develop young players.

[Socrates]

I'm sure they could put together some sort of programme that would result in a half decent game every other week. it's hardly rocket science. In fairness they're hardly fussed anyway considering they'll always be showing OF away games.

It is interesting that, despite all the apparent enthusiasm for the big league, nobody involved in football has put it forward as a serious suggestion. Given that it would be ideal for the mediocre sections of the SPL, as they would be pretty much safe from relegation, the sums must really not add up.

[Socrates]

If you can show me that we will still be competative in games against the old firm and we wont fall back to regular drubbings (4-0s and 3-0s)as the old firm regain there strength . One of the decent things of recent years is that teams can get results against the Uglies will that continue when relegation is a realistic threat for 8 clubs at the start of every season ? .

 

Really need to see the proposed financial benifits and if the increase would be worth it , I am not convinced . Football wise all i see is a return to negative football and stopping dead in its tracks a revival in starting to produce a larger crop of decent young talent .

Whether we end up getting regular drubbings from the OF is much more dependent on the amount of money they have, and the standard of out team, than on the size of the league.

[Libertarian]

*sigh* - Teams work out systems as to how to play each other and effectively cancel each other out. We'd play the Cancer (I'm refusing to call them by anything else) four times a season ANYWAY - so now we'll have to watch the same shite like St Mirren and Motherwell 4 times a season too. The 'history' element is exactly that; relevant to an older age but not now. This is just another example of the pathetic lack of ambition shown by the Cancer-collaborating clubs. It's starting to feel absolutely pointless following Scottish football if all we're going to see is monotonous fixtures designed to satisfy armchair fans here and abroad. The fans who GO to games MUST be listened to. This is an astonishing situation and I'm absolutely disgusted.

 

 

I couldn't agree more. An abosolute disgrace.

[bean counter]

All the clubs have got themselves into a position where the TV money goes a long way to there survival and spending budgets.

 

 

Thats the crux of the problem, if you took away the TV money how many clubs would\could survive and at what level could they compete

[Drylaw Hearts]

I don't want to put words in his mouth, but, from previous discussions, I think Charlie thinks less money in the game would be good, because it would force teams to develop young players.

 

CB has an obsession with young players that he really needs to get over - it's unhealthy.

[Charlie-Brown]

It appears there are at least 11 SPL Chairman/Owners out there that disagree with you.

 

All the clubs have got themselves into a position where the TV money goes a long way to there survival and spending budgets.

 

You're alternative is based on the guarantee that fans will start miraculously flooding back to football and make-up for the shortfall in revenue.

 

A pipe-dream imo.

 

The fans won't start coming back until football clubs start listening to the paying customer ie their fans.

 

Live football deters supporters going to games - look at our away attendances at televised away matches if you don't believe me. Anti-social kick off times and high match ticket prices and too many repetitive games are also deterring fans and discouraging many from attending.

 

 

The SPL clubs have decided to organise themselves around the preferences and priorities of TV broadcasters and games are played to suit their schedules be that saturday lunchtime, sunday lunchtime, sunday evenings, monday or thursday nights or whenever.

 

Also going for 10 team SPL when 90% fans oppose it is a blatant kick in the stones to fans - the Clubs are making it blatantly clear TV matters to them than their fans. Sad, but blatantly simple and true.

 

You will not reverse the decline in Scottish football or reverse the decline in attendances UNTIL radical and probably painful decisions are made. Until then the patient will continue slowly bleeding and getting weaker.

[rossthejambo]

It is interesting that, despite all the apparent enthusiasm for the big league, nobody involved in football has put it forward as a serious suggestion. Given that it would be ideal for the mediocre sections of the SPL, as they would be pretty much safe from relegation, the sums must really not add up.

 

I'd imagine that clubs like Hamilton and St Mirren are happy to fight for relegation if it means that they'll be getting 3 or 4 visits from the OF every season to boost their coffers as well as a bigger amount of TV money to soften the blow.

 

I think/hope the Sky/ESPN have been consulted and have told the chairmen that they would be giving them significantly less money if they expanded the league. If not, then questions need asked IMO.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Thats the crux of the problem, if you took away the TV money how many clubs would\could survive and at what level could they compete

 

It would drive the quality down which would drive some supporters away which would lead to even less money in the game.

[Hackney Hearts]

Would just like to say that the most fun I can remember having was season 1985-86. (apart from the last 7 minutes, obviously)

 

There were 10 teams in the league that season - so whatever the problems are with Scottish football, it's not the number of teams per se that makes a league exciting.

[bean counter]

It would drive the quality down which would drive some supporters away which would lead to even less money in the game.

 

Probably true but if there was no SPL on TV would attendances then start to go back up ?

[Charlie-Brown]

I don't want to put words in his mouth, but, from previous discussions, I think Charlie thinks less money in the game would be good, because it would force teams to develop young players.

 

Consider these articles how 'less money and more young players' helped revive the Bundesliga in Germany.

 

http://inbedwithmaradona.com/the-legacy-of-france-1998-how-german-football-got-it-right/

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jul/04/germany-youth-development-england

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/soccer/world-cup-2010/writers/raphael_honigstein/07/01/germany.reinvention/index.html

 

http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2010/07/04/inventing-the-new-germany-youth-development-and-the-bundesliga/

[Socrates]

The fans won't start coming back until football clubs start listening to the paying customer ie their fans.

 

Live football deters supporters going to games - look at our away attendances at televised away matches if you don't believe me. Anti-social kick off times and high match ticket prices and too many repetitive games are also deterring fans and discouraging many from attending.

 

 

The SPL clubs have decided to organise themselves around the preferences and priorities of TV broadcasters and games are played to suit their schedules be that saturday lunchtime, sunday lunchtime, sunday evenings, monday or thursday nights or whenever.

 

Also going for 10 team SPL when 90% fans oppose it is a blatant kick in the stones to fans - the Clubs are making it blatantly clear TV matters to them than their fans. Sad, but blatantly simple and true.

 

You will not reverse the decline in Scottish football or reverse the decline in attendances UNTIL radical and probably painful decisions are made. Until then the patient will continue slowly bleeding and getting weaker.

 

You can't cut the TV money, demand that ticket prices are reduced, and have lower average gates because there are fewer games that are actual draws in your 18 team league, and expect clubs to thrive. It would be interesting to know how many of the 90% or whatever of fans would still support a big league if they knew how much their team's budget for players would be reduced.

[The Gasman]

It is sad, very very sad. But that's the reality our club chairmen have created. They care more about getting SKY/ESPN money and take you the mug-punter 'supporter' completely for granted.

 

Sorry CB - I wasn't having a pop at you - I actually agree with your post, I just think it's very sad that short sighted short term thinking has got us into this mess.

 

[Socrates]

Consider these articles how 'less money and more young players' helped revive the Bundesliga in Germany.

 

http://inbedwithmaradona.com/the-legacy-of-france-1998-how-german-football-got-it-right/

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jul/04/germany-youth-development-england

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/soccer/world-cup-2010/writers/raphael_honigstein/07/01/germany.reinvention/index.html

 

http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2010/07/04/inventing-the-new-germany-youth-development-and-the-bundesliga/

Charlie - if developing young players in the way you suggest would revitalise the Scottish game, and could be done on less money, why does nobody actually go and do it? I mean, if it could propel Hamilton, say, up the table, and wouldn't cost them more than they currently spend on players, why aren't they investing heavily in youth?

 

Also, you could write a broadly similar article about Spain, say, and not mention money at all. 10-15 years ago, it was France who had the best young players. I think the influence of money is vastly overrated in developing youngsters - it's a broadly cyclical thing.

[colinmaroon]

What a joke,we are now the laughing stock of europe once again. I thought this doncaster boy would be orite...... Eh naaaa. What a joke.

 

 

We already are! As on other thread:

 

 

http://www.arabtrust.co.uk/current/?454-deportivo-fans-opinion-of-the-spl

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Boris]

a 14 team league would also provide 4 OF games per season.

 

How would that work? 3 x 13 then another 6 games in a top/bottom split? This would be 45 games per season, which seems a lot.

 

Unless there is more TV money on the table for a 10+12 proposal it is impossible for every club to get a bigger share. The dissenters have been bought off, none of their requests ie more equitable split, reserve league, more money are 100% dependant on a 10 team league and additional TV money.

 

What if the attendances continue to decline and clubs suffer more lost income through stay away supporters than extra TV money brought to the table or is fans attendance taken for granted?

 

I'm not sure if the deal is about every team getting a bigger share, more about a fairer distribution of the wealth that is there. The requests you mention are no more dependable on a 10 team league as they are a 14, 16 or 18 team league.

[Charlie-Brown]

CB has an obsession with young players that he really needs to get over - it's unhealthy.

 

WTF does that mean DH?

 

Hearts best and most valuable players in the last decade have all been players who came up through the youth teams.

 

Gordon, Berra, Wallace, Driver, Templeton to name the most recent and before that Robbo, Mackay & Bowman, Crabbe, McLaren, A.Johnston, Ritchie, Naysmith, Severin etc.

[colinmaroon]

90% of fans are not chucking themselves of bridges though it is only a few Internet geeks. Your 2nd point is sorting of missing the point. Teams don't want to risk losing the tv money or playing less games against the OF.

 

 

That will include the well over 90% on here who said "No2 to 10 teams!

[Ben Dover]

That's great then

And with the TV cash being the be all and end all, I can now watch it in the pub and STILL be a 'considerably better fan than yeaw'

[Dazo]

WTF does that mean DH?

 

Hearts best and most valuable players in the last decade have all been players who came up through the youth teams.

 

Gordon, Berra, Wallace, Driver, Templeton to name the most recent and before that Robbo, Mackay & Bowman, Crabbe, McLaren, A.Johnston, Ritchie, Naysmith, Severin etc.

 

Are those Players not examples of proving you don't need a bigger league to produce talented players?

[The Merse]

How would that work? 3 x 13 then another 6 games in a top/bottom split? This would be 45 games per season, which seems a lot.

 

 

 

 

 

Play each other twice.

 

Top 6/Bottom 8 split off and play eachother home and away again.

 

36 games for top half, 40 for bottom half

[Dazo]

That will include the well over 90% on here who said "No2 to 10 teams!

 

 

I know but they are not all over reacting to the extent of the bridge jumpers.

[Charlie-Brown]

Charlie - if developing young players in the way you suggest would revitalise the Scottish game, and could be done on less money, why does nobody actually go and do it? I mean, if it could propel Hamilton, say, up the table, and wouldn't cost them more than they currently spend on players, why aren't they investing heavily in youth?

 

Also, you could write a broadly similar article about Spain, say, and not mention money at all. 10-15 years ago, it was France who had the best young players. I think the influence of money is vastly overrated in developing youngsters - it's a broadly cyclical thing.

 

Fear of relegation / too much pressure is cited by football people as a reason for not being able to play more young players and not only at bottom 6 clubs but others at the upper end of the SPL such as Walter Smith & Jim Jefferies have talked about it recently.

 

Moving to 10 teams will only increase the fear / pressure on most clubs and is more likely to limit the opportunities of younger players.

 

I think you are missing the point - it isn't cyclical at all, France, Spain & Germany made coherent, deliberate and specific plans to improve their quality of young players/national teams options and put in place means by which clubs were able to produce and play younger players without too many negative effects. Our clubs pay lip service to this.

[colinmaroon]

Is that actually true? Has anyone actually found out how much we lose in attendance if a game is televised? My feeling is that the games that are usually televised are the games against Celtic, Rangers and Hibs, which are sell outs or pretty close to it.

 

 

EPL games attendances suffer little from being on TV!

 

They should ban FA Cup games from TV and you would see an increase there too, I'm sure!

 

 

SPL. it's the "product" that's poor and the only way to improve the quality within the means of the SPL is to reintroduce reserve team/under-23 league and improve the quality of youth coming through!

 

TV money is a necessary EVIL at present, and if we remain dependent on it, we will never see the quality rise!

[kingantti1874]

Play each other twice.

 

Top 6/Bottom 8 split off and play eachother home and away again.

 

36 games for top half, 40 for bottom half

 

as i said earlier, i not a fan of ten but this is a stinking idea.... im not sure if its worse than 10 or not... splitting the eague haf way through a season - take the worst nit of the split and make it longer..

 

no thanks

[rossthejambo]

Are those Players not examples of proving you don't need a bigger league to produce talented players?

 

If you're Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen and the OF yes. But if you're in battling relegation there's no real freedom to blood youngsters due to the fear of relegation. I realise Hamilton had McArthur and McArthy but since then have had no-one.

 

However, as things have been going money-wise clubs have had no choice but to play youngsters so I don't really see it as too big a valid arguement from the pro-bigger league camp.

[Socrates]

WTF does that mean DH?

 

Hearts best and most valuable players in the last decade have all been players who came up through the youth teams.

 

Gordon, Berra, Wallace, Driver, Templeton to name the most recent and before that Robbo, Mackay & Bowman, Crabbe, McLaren, A.Johnston, Ritchie, Naysmith, Severin etc.

Or players like Hartley, Pressley, Webster, Fyssas, Skacel and Aguiar who came from other clubs (please, I'm not interested in Phressley arguments, and I know that Webster was, is and always will be vermin). Do you think that there is that much more that can come from the youth teams. I doubt that there are huge amounts of undiscovered talents out there - obviously we could always do more and improve the work we already do, but I really doubt that there are hundreds of talents that are alipping through the collective nets of all the SPL and SFL clubs.

[Footballfirst]

Is that actually true? Has anyone actually found out how much we lose in attendance if a game is televised? My feeling is that the games that are usually televised are the games against Celtic, Rangers and Hibs, which are sell outs or pretty close to it.

From London Hearts stats here are the progressive home SPL attendances for the last five seasons against the OF

 

Rangers 17379 17040 17040 15948 16173 15710 16284 16832 15637

Celtic 17358 16795 16822 17129 16454 15460 16514 16223 14389 15632

 

I'd say from those figures that the trend is downwards

 

Edit:

Hibs 16459 17371 17369 16434 16436 17131 17244 14714 16762 17126 17156

 

The figures for games v Hibs are stable which I think says more about the attractions of a local derby than anything else. e.g. I'd expect that a Dundee derby would now be both sides highest attendance if both were in the same league.

[Stanley_]

"Broad support was given to progressing a 10-team Premiership and a 12-team Championship at the top of a pyramid for Scottish football as the preferred option."

 

Tell me we're not copying the English names.

[johnjl]

Once again the old firm get it there way and the rest feed on there scraps.

 

Doncaster has just been on SSN saying the second tier having 12 teams offers more competition than 10. Correct Neil as would having more teams in the top flight.

 

Scottish football sold down the river again. A ridiculously high percentage of supporters do not want a 10 team league but we are getting one anyway. Why? Because rangers and Celtic want it that way. Simple as that.

 

Pathetic.

[Socrates]

Fear of relegation / too much pressure is cited by football people as a reason for not being able to play more young players and not only at bottom 6 clubs but others at the upper end of the SPL such as Walter Smith & Jim Jefferies have talked about it recently.

 

Moving to 10 teams will only increase the fear / pressure on most clubs and is more likely to limit the opportunities of younger players.

 

I think you are missing the point - it isn't cyclical at all, France, Spain & Germany made coherent, deliberate and specific plans to improve their quality of young players/national teams options and put in place means by which clubs were able to produce and play younger players without too many negative effects. Our clubs pay lip service to this.

I think the fear of relegation stuff is rubbish. For two thirds of the SPL there is no fear of relegation, with 1 up and 1 down, and half of them still don't introduce young players. I think pressure is good, as it forces clubs to improve.

 

When I said that producing young players is cyclical, I didn't mean that you didn't have to do anything to bring through youngsters. I meant that the results come and go - for example, France has been held up as an example in the past, but not so much now, because they happened to have a ctop of talented young players all coming through at the same time in the mid-late 90s. I doubt that they are doing much different now, but because they haven't had a good group at the same time since, they aren't flavour of the month. Germany currently has a good group of young players coming through, although five years ago, there was a lot of chat about how they had no hope of contending in major tournaments.

 

Closer to home, people say Hibs have a good set-up, but they aren't producing an awful lot right now. Five years ago, they had a decent group, but I doubt that they way they do things has changed. On the other hand, we had a dry spell relatively four or five years ago. Now we are doing better, although again, I don't think we are doing things radically differently.

[The Merse]

If you're Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen and the OF yes. But if you're in battling relegation there's no real freedom to blood youngsters due to the fear of relegation. I realise Hamilton had McArthur and McArthy but since then have had no-one.

 

However, as things have been going money-wise clubs have had no choice but to play youngsters so I don't really see it as too big a valid arguement from the pro-bigger league camp.

 

If they are good enough they will get played imo.

[Socrates]

From London Hearts stats here are the progressive home SPL attendances for the last five seasons against the OF

 

Rangers 17379 17040 17040 15948 16173 15710 16284 16832 15637

Celtic 17358 16795 16822 17129 16454 15460 16514 16223 14389 15632

 

I'd say from those figures that the trend is downwards

 

In 05/06 and 06/07, we sold out practically every game due to the level of season ticket sales. Obviously that dropped off due to the failure to maintain the standards of 05/06. I'm not convinced it has much to do with TV. Would also help to know which were midweek games, like the last Celtic game, as you would expect lower attendances then.

[rossthejambo]

If they are good enough they will get played imo.

 

That should be the attitude but I'd imagine if money wasn't as big a problem as it is, a lot of teams at the bottom wouldn't be bothering if they could get someone with "SPL experience" to keep them in the SPL.

 

But like I said, it's not really a good enough arguement for me to promote the 18 team league idea.

[Charlie-Brown]

Or players like Hartley, Pressley, Webster, Fyssas, Skacel and Aguiar who came from other clubs (please, I'm not interested in Phressley arguments, and I know that Webster was, is and always will be vermin). Do you think that there is that much more that can come from the youth teams. I doubt that there are huge amounts of undiscovered talents out there - obviously we could always do more and improve the work we already do, but I really doubt that there are hundreds of talents that are alipping through the collective nets of all the SPL and SFL clubs.

 

Young players are the cheapest way of recruiting players for Scottish clubs, more experienced players generally cost more in terms of wages and also any transfer or signing on fees etc. So having a higher proportion of younger players benefits the clubs wage bill as well as increasing the future options for the national team if a specified amount must be eligible for the country as happens in Germany.

 

I don't think there is a massive amount of talent slipping through the net however i do think that quite a large percentage of young players aren't brought up to their full potential simply by not being given enough of an opportunity to make it at first team level because other pressures prevent or limit them getting opportunities. Except for obviously superior talented individuals ther can often be very little between 1 young player that does get first team opportunities and his youth or reserve team colleagues that don't get the same exposure of opportunities to progress.

 

often it is an element of luck say an injury or suspension that gives 1 young player a chance to play whereas others of a similar standard might not, that player depending on how well he performs is then a step ahead of theother youngsters in the pecking order for selection. they too might have the same potential but if it never gets the chance or opportunities to become as fully developed then that is talent and youth development time and money being wasted.

 

I would bet that most SPL managers would probably like to be able to do more for youth development but short term pressures to get results dictate otherwise and they go with the safer otion of more experienced albeit possibly more limited players.

[Randy Marsh]

Would just like to say that the most fun I can remember having was season 1985-86. (apart from the last 7 minutes, obviously)

 

There were 10 teams in the league that season - so whatever the problems are with Scottish football, it's not the number of teams per se that makes a league exciting.

 

 

You have to consider that it was only 2 points for a win back then which would always make it more competitive - playing for a draw back then was far more valuable than it is today.

 

I want a competitive league. This will never happen if we go back to ten teams. Its a sad day for Scottish football.

[Ben Dover]

Actually I think Doncaster's / Topping's statement still sounds a bit wishy washy the way it's worded ?

Also I just can't see what has changed unless there is decidedly more cash on the table from SKY /ESPN

And would you be increasing your probably UNOPPOSED bid in the current climate? ..............like oh yeh

Also this vague talk of a fairer distribution of the wealth ?

Sounds about as plausible as David Cameron's 'we're all in this together" crap !

 

In all honesty I'm not sure what to do but all I can say is that dropping from 12 teams to 10 is not 'rocking my world' as

those promoting 'radical change' said their findings would !

[rubyruby]

Will we have a winter break too?

[Das Root]

Simply put, the clubs have calculated that the fans will pay the money for their STs anyway. Doesn't matter if the football's shite, the fans will still turn up and the cash received from the old filth and tv makes up the rest. Most have zero ambition and know clinging to the top flight is a good year. Make a few bob on the way from pie sales.

 

Job's a good'un...nobody was meant to win the league bar Glasgow anyway and it's great to see the clubs remembering that

[Footballfirst]

In 05/06 and 06/07, we sold out practically every game due to the level of season ticket sales. Obviously that dropped off due to the failure to maintain the standards of 05/06. I'm not convinced it has much to do with TV. Would also help to know which were midweek games, like the last Celtic game, as you would expect lower attendances then.

 

Obviously success on the park will increase or at a minimum maintain attendances, but my reading of it is that an increasing number Hearts fans can't be @rsed watching the OF games at Tynie with early kick offs on Sat or Sun. That's certainly the views of most of my mates that have STs.

 

Looking at the OF specifically:

 

Their season ticket sales are showing a worrying decline, particularly Celtic, for the last two seasons when Rangers have been champions. From the clubs latest annual reports, look at the ST sales for the last two seasons (2008-09 and 2009-10)

 

Rangers 43107 and 40,306 - Down 6.5% .... As predicted, season ticket sales are down again for Season 2010/11

 

Celtic 54,252 and 50826 - Down 6.4% ..... Season tickets sales were down on the record of 54,252 the year before, and the Board believes this trend is set to continue this year

I've been told that Celtic's season ticket sales are below 40,000 this season which is a massive drop

[RoussetsShorts]

I don't know why anybody is blaming the old firm, this has nothing to do with them or any of the other clubs as a matter of fact. The whole thing is driven by SKY TV who have indicated they would be willing to fork out for a revamped two tier Scottish league system where they will even show some SPL 2 matches. Allied to this ESPN will again get a share of the games and both are dictating a ten team league so we can get back to the heady days of OF title deciders and eventually play offs.

 

If you want to blame anybody blame this guy.....

 

[Charlie-Brown]

Vested TV & Commercial Interests > 150K SPL ST holders + walk up supporters.