P-Dizzle Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 For anyone saying this is a good thing, let's see how you feel after we've played the same shitty team for the 4th time in a season. Scottish football will become even more stagnant as a result of this. Crock of shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudi Hates Hibees Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Hearts aren't on the strategy board? Did I hear that right? Thats what I thought I heard as well but that can't be right. Can it? Surely all 12 teams must have been involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 How long until the SPL is forced into another league re-organisation after they bring in the new 10 team farce? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mahgrassyshoes Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I thought it was only 6 teams in the SPL. Of which I think it was the OF, St Mirren, Kilmarnock, Motherwell and Dundee Utd... Could be wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 For anyone saying this is a good thing, let's see how you feel after we've played the same shitty team for the 4th time in a season. Scottish football will become even more stagnant as a result of this. Crock of shit. For me.... Football isn't about who the other team is - all I'm really fussed about is watching Hearts. However.... Give me a 4th game against Rangers, Celtic, Aberdeen, Utd and Hibs anytime over a match with Falkirk, Raith, Hamilton, Dunfermline or Queen of the South. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bean counter Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I'm with JIG I'll wait to see what other changes have been agreed. If for example the 11-1 majority is to go to say a 9-3 or now 7-3\8-2 majority If there is to be a redistribution of TV and Sponsorship monies If the reserve league comes back If the split has gone I'll put up with a 10 team league in the short term Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Is there any other business or industry* in existence that voluntarily decides to piss all over their customers wishes and take them for granted in such a shameful way? *I exclude organised crime & banking obviously............ Train companies, put prices up above inflation every year, get paid huge subsidies by the government, rack up huge profits and customers see little improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-Dizzle Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Thats what I thought I heard as well but that can't be right. Can it? Surely all 12 teams must have been involved. The OF, Hibs and Dundee Utd were the ones that I can remember. I think there's another two. I don't think that means they have the final say, as all clubs get a vote. But it sounds like this group might have forced it through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 If a ten team league is the price to be paid for a more equal distribution of wealth, then perhaps this is for the common good? Sky get their 4 OF games a season, so the TV deal is still "lucrative", every other club gets a better share so that has to be a better thing surely? I'm not advocating a ten team league here, merely trying to see the whole picture rather than a single issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neiljb Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Merse Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 The OF, Hibs and Dundee Utd were the ones that I can remember. I think there's another two. I don't think that means they have the final say, as all clubs get a vote. But it sounds like this group might have forced it through. I think it was the OF, Hibs, Aberdeen, Motherwell and St Mirren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 The OF, Hibs and Dundee Utd were the ones that I can remember. I think there's another two. I don't think that means they have the final say, as all clubs get a vote. But it sounds like this group might have forced it through. It was of, st mirren, motherwell, Hibs and aberdeen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky_26 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 The OF, Hibs and Dundee Utd were the ones that I can remember. I think there's another two. I don't think that means they have the final say, as all clubs get a vote. But it sounds like this group might have forced it through. aberdeen and st liedown were the other two IIRC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad-Stupid Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Did Vlad not say somewhere that Hearts make ?8m a year through the turnstiles and ?1m from tv rights, therefore the fans were more important than satisfying any sort of tv deal? Sounds like a sound business plan to me, doing what's best for the fans. Exactly who benefits here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 If a ten team league is the price to be paid for a more equal distribution of wealth, then perhaps this is for the common good? Sky get their 4 OF games a season, so the TV deal is still "lucrative", every other club gets a better share so that has to be a better thing surely? I'm not advocating a ten team league here, merely trying to see the whole picture rather than a single issue. If if if. That sort of thing would rely on common sense having prevailed and when does that really ever happen? I'm decidedly glum about the prospects of any real change having been agreed other than the numbers. EDIT: league numbers that is, not the actual important ones that relate directly to distribution of cash.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neiljb Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 If a ten team league is the price to be paid for a more equal distribution of wealth, then perhaps this is for the common good? Sky get their 4 OF games a season, so the TV deal is still "lucrative", every other club gets a better share so that has to be a better thing surely? I'm not advocating a ten team league here, merely trying to see the whole picture rather than a single issue. Yes, because nobody has taken the effort to explain or sell the idea to us. I'm trying too, and failing to see the benefits to these proposals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Hivernian Football club once again proving that Wallace Mercer should have wiped them from the face of the earth. Should we be surprised? They've basically been Celtic's feeder team since 1888 anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-Dizzle Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 For me.... Football isn't about who the other team is - all I'm really fussed about is watching Hearts. However.... Give me a 4th game against Rangers, Celtic, Aberdeen, Utd and Hibs anytime over a match with Falkirk, Raith, Hamilton, Dunfermline or Queen of the South. Disagree. Of course it's good to play against the better teams in the league, but that will become very boring very quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts Heritage Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Well that's not very true. Post-war until 1975 (16 and 18 team First Divisions) Rangers, hibs, Celtic, Aberdeen, Hearts, Dundee and Kilmarnock (7 teams) won it. Out of 29 seasons it was won 8 times outside of Glasgow, which works out as 27.6 per cent championships. In the 1975 to the current day Premier Division era (10 and 12 team leagues) we've had four teams win it, Rangers, Celtic, Aberdeen and Dundee Utd. It has been won outside of Glasgow in 4 out of 35 championships, or 11.4 per cent of the time. Even starker Post 1985 it has been won 0 times. Only twice Hearts in 1986 and Aberdeen in 1991? has a third team come realistically close. The gap (in income) between the OF and the rest has drastically widened during that period as well. Short termism rules OK Fans FO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Disagree. Of course it's good to play against the better teams in the league, but that will become very boring very quickly. If people are really so bored about playing those teams 4 times a season then why do these games normally attract our biggest home support ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest juvehearts Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 so whats the preposal then?? we aint heard anything all hush hush just now only good thing is nothing has been confirmed yet....... ihope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 If a ten team league is the price to be paid for a more equal distribution of wealth, then perhaps this is for the common good? Sky get their 4 OF games a season, so the TV deal is still "lucrative", every other club gets a better share so that has to be a better thing surely? I'm not advocating a ten team league here, merely trying to see the whole picture rather than a single issue. a 14 team league would also provide 4 OF games per season. Unless there is more TV money on the table for a 10+12 proposal it is impossible for every club to get a bigger share. The dissenters have been bought off, none of their requests ie more equitable split, reserve league, more money are 100% dependant on a 10 team league and additional TV money. What if the attendances continue to decline and clubs suffer more lost income through stay away supporters than extra TV money brought to the table or is fans attendance taken for granted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzo Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Does a 12 team SPL2 mean each team still plays each other 4 times?? A 44 match league programme plus cups plus play-offs is a long long season,especially for part-time teams. With postponements like this season they'd struggle to finish before a new season started. Unless they plan an earlier start to the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 If people are really so bored about playing those teams 4 times a season then why do these games normally attract our biggest home support ? Simple they bring more away fans than the other clubs that is why home attendances against these clubs are higher. You can get potentially get more Hearts fans attending home games against Livingston, Inverness and Gretna than against any of the category A opponents depending on Hearts teams form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-Dizzle Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 If people are really so bored about playing those teams 4 times a season then why do these games normally attract our biggest home support ? It's not just about those big games. You'll also have two home games against St. Johnstone, Hamilton, Motherwell etc. That's going to be so boring, and I think people would just stop going to those games. We could be looking at well under 10,000 turning up for the other 6-7 home fixtures, and only selling out for the big games vs Hibs and the OF. Maybe then people might stop buying STs and just buy a ticket for the big games. I know myself, that I don't fancy watching the same dross come to Tynecastle even more regularly than we are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartsfc_fan Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 What are they doing with the 12 teams in the lower league? A split like the current SPL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Simple they bring more away fans than the other clubs that is why home attendances against these clubs are higher. You can get potentially get more Hearts fans attending home games against Livingston, Inverness and Gretna than against any of the category A opponents depending on Hearts teams form. My point was.... Normally, Hearts sell more tickets to Hearts fans when we play one of the bigger teams. If people are bored of them why is this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 10 is utter utter garbage.. but better than 14 and making the stupid split even more pronunced..... they should have left it at 12 until such a time a s a bigger league was viable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossthejambo Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 If people are really so bored about playing those teams 4 times a season then why do these games normally attract our biggest home support ? They're always going to attract a big home support, but surely we'd be looking to increase the support for the smaller games. Making them rarer is going to make them slightly more attractive than playing them twice. Also a bigger league would make them more competitive and it would make them more meaningful and exciting. Teams like Dundee, Raith, Dunfermline will bring big travelling support to Tynecastle and other grounds which will increase attendances and revenue. I see your point about playing the OF and Hibs 4 times but for me, this is just going to keep everything as it is, even with more evenly distributed money (if this is on the table), and I don't like it as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 It's not just about those big games. You'll also have two home games against St. Johnstone, Hamilton, Motherwell etc. That's going to be so boring, and I think people would just stop going to those games. We could be looking at well under 10,000 turning up for the other 6-7 home fixtures, and only selling out for the big games vs Hibs and the OF. Maybe then people might stop buying STs and just buy a ticket for the big games. I know myself, that I don't fancy watching the same dross come to Tynecastle even more regularly than we are now. If Hearts are playing well people will turn up regardless of who the other team is. If we're playing shite the ones that are easily put off won't bother turning up. It's been that way for as long as I've been going to games and I doubt that will change tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bean counter Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Below quotes from Fridays Scotsman after Vlad met Doncaster & Topping Romanov explained afterwards that he would neither reject the ten-team plan out of hand nor support a 14-team league unequivocally. Instead, he argued that the restoration of some kind of reserve or youth-team league was essential, as was the redistribution of income away from Rangers and Celtic. "First, it is obligatory that the tournament of reserve teams is resumed," he said. "Without such reserves competition, the youths will have no chances to get into the main teams. Secondly, the distribution of the league's profits should be decided democratically," he continued, suggesting that a two-thirds majority should suffice for it to become policy. Hearts will go along with whatever consensus develops provided Romanov's two conditions are met Also remember that after the last meeting Doncaster came out and said the 10 team league had agreeement which proved incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 It's not just about those big games. You'll also have two home games against St. Johnstone, Hamilton, Motherwell etc. That's going to be so boring, and I think people would just stop going to those games. We could be looking at well under 10,000 turning up for the other 6-7 home fixtures, and only selling out for the big games vs Hibs and the OF. Maybe then people might stop buying STs and just buy a ticket for the big games. I know myself, that I don't fancy watching the same dross come to Tynecastle even more regularly than we are now. Why buy a ticket for the category A games at anti-social kick off times when you can watch them for free in the boozer and spend the over-priced match-ticket money on several drinks. It's important to make the TV companies vaible as they pay the SPL clubs the TV money they crave - the TV companies charge pubs a lot of money to screen games so the importance of pubs being viable is also important to the TV companies as they contribute a lot of revenue towards that goes towards live football. Pubs are also important to the local community so you would probably do more social and economic good by boycotting the match and watching it it the pub instead. The clubs don't really care about you anyway they just take you for granted. Maximising TV money & commercial revenue is what really counts not fitba fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I`ll never be in favour of a 10 team league but i wonder what else Vlad was told that made him change his mind? Firstly, the even spread of dough was given as a main reason but im not sure if it would only be that. Maybe the/a new tv deal is going to be very lucrative compared to recent years and there is a big pot of cash? Therefore, the promise of an even spread and knowing its a big pot has maybe swayed Hearts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigolo-Aunt Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 It's going to be interesting to see how the money is dished up, as well as the reserve league status. Just cant see the "rebel" clubs agreeing if things are just carrying on as they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaroon Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 I`ll never be in favour of a 10 team league but i wonder what else Vlad was told that made him change his mind? Firstly, the even spread of dough was given as a main reason but im not sure if it would only be that. Maybe the/a new tv deal is going to be very lucrative compared to recent years and there is a big pot of cash? Therefore, the promise of an even spread and knowing its a big pot has maybe swayed Hearts? So, is Mr Big behind all this, Rupert Murdoch? And will it be case of us getting a small increase in TV money, with the Uglies maintaining their % and pulling away ever faster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Below quotes from Fridays Scotsman after Vlad met Doncaster & Topping Romanov explained afterwards that he would neither reject the ten-team plan out of hand nor support a 14-team league unequivocally. Instead, he argued that the restoration of some kind of reserve or youth-team league was essential, as was the redistribution of income away from Rangers and Celtic. "First, it is obligatory that the tournament of reserve teams is resumed," he said. "Without such reserves competition, the youths will have no chances to get into the main teams. Secondly, the distribution of the league's profits should be decided democratically," he continued, suggesting that a two-thirds majority should suffice for it to become policy. Hearts will go along with whatever consensus develops provided Romanov's two conditions are met Also remember that after the last meeting Doncaster came out and said the 10 team league had agreeement which proved incorrect. Actually it was topping who said there was an agreement when there wasn't one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I`ll never be in favour of a 10 team league but i wonder what else Vlad was told that made him change his mind? Firstly, the even spread of dough was given as a main reason but im not sure if it would only be that. Maybe the/a new tv deal is going to be very lucrative compared to recent years and there is a big pot of cash? Therefore, the promise of an even spread and knowing its a big pot has maybe swayed Hearts? How will this stop falling attendances and lower revenue from fans? it's already only 18 home SPL games per season instead of 19 so ticket prices will have to go up by at least 6% per game just to match current income assuming everybody renews their ST and walk up attendances don't fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 They're always going to attract a big home support, but surely we'd be looking to increase the support for the smaller games. Making them rarer is going to make them slightly more attractive than playing them twice. Also a bigger league would make them more competitive and it would make them more meaningful and exciting. Teams like Dundee, Raith, Dunfermline will bring big travelling support to Tynecastle and other grounds which will increase attendances and revenue. I see your point about playing the OF and Hibs 4 times but for me, this is just going to keep everything as it is, even with more evenly distributed money (if this is on the table), and I don't like it as it is. There is nothing attractive about any of the following : Motherwell St Johnstone ICT St Mirren Hamilton Killie Dundee Raith Dunfermline Falkirk QOS Partick Cowdenbeath Morton Stirling Albion They're all in the 'meh' category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Why buy a ticket for the category A games at anti-social kick off times when you can watch them for free in the boozer and spend the over-priced match-ticket money on several drinks. Because you are a Hearts supporter ? We don't appear to have many problems selling these tickets now. Why should this change ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 It's going to be interesting to see how the money is dished up, as well as the reserve league status. Just cant see the "rebel" clubs agreeing if things are just carrying on as they are. I think they have been threatened by 'armageddon' if they didn't vote for change? This article from the Hamilton Director seems to suggest there would be a big decline in TV broadcasters offers if the changes weren't agreed to? http://www.hamiltonadvertiser.co.uk/hamilton-lanarkshire-sport/hamiltonaccies/2011/01/13/hamilton-accies-vice-chairman-backs-10-team-spl-plan-51525-27976140/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaroon Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 I think they have been threatened by 'armageddon' if they didn't vote for change? This article from the Hamilton Director seems to suggest there would be a big decline in TV broadcasters offers if the changes weren't agreed to? http://www.hamiltona...51525-27976140/ As I said, Mr Big = Rupert Murdoch!!! Reading that article is very, very disturbing and I am now convinced that there will be NO giving up of the UGLIES share of TV revenue! In fact, a better deal will mean the gap will grow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossthejambo Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 There is nothing attractive about any of the following : Motherwell St Johnstone ICT St Mirren Hamilton Killie Dundee Raith Dunfermline Falkirk QOS Partick Cowdenbeath Morton Stirling Albion They're all in the 'meh' category. At the moment sure, but what about if the league is a success and say 50-60% of these clubs are good enough to be challenging in the top half of the table. They'll bring along a reasonable travelling support. The facts are there will be a core element of the support that will be going along on a weekly basis. There will be more fans going along if they think that we are in with a realistic shout at challenging for the title. I don't see us having that very often in a 10 team league. Away trips will be much easier sells if we're only going to these places once a season because it would be more of a novelty, this would work the other way as well with more fans coming to Tynecastle. It's not all about us though really is it, some of the clubs you mention should be bigger and have a larger following than they do. Being in the top flight is bound to help that and give them a platform to build and make a decent impact in cup competitions and the occasional tilt at the European places. At the moment these clubs will all be playing it safe because dropping down divisions would be a disaster financially. This shouldn't be how it's run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad-Stupid Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 If the OF beat a team 4 times, thats 12pts of a gap per season that they know is near impossible to close. if there were only 6pts to play for, it would make things a lot tighter. This reason plus the millions extra they make by playing each other is why we will NEVER have a bigger league. At least a ten team league will get shot of this embarrassing split Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Why buy a ticket for the category A games at anti-social kick off times when you can watch them for free in the boozer and spend the over-priced match-ticket money on several drinks. It's important to make the TV companies vaible as they pay the SPL clubs the TV money they crave - the TV companies charge pubs a lot of money to screen games so the importance of pubs being viable is also important to the TV companies as they contribute a lot of revenue towards that goes towards live football. Pubs are also important to the local community so you would probably do more social and economic good by boycotting the match and watching it it the pub instead. The clubs don't really care about you anyway they just take you for granted. Maximising TV money & commercial revenue is what really counts not fitba fans. Sad - very very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Because you are a Hearts supporter ? We don't appear to have many problems selling these tickets now. Why should this change ? Since blanket TV coverage home many of our Category A games sell out? Why should fans who have basically just been shat on and disregarded by the SPL clubs be minded to attend over-priced games they can watch for much less on TV? It's the TV money that's clearly more important to clubs anyway so best protect the interest of the TV companies surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 There is nothing attractive about any of the following : Motherwell St Johnstone ICT St Mirren Hamilton Killie Dundee Raith Dunfermline Falkirk QOS Partick Cowdenbeath Morton Stirling Albion They're all in the 'meh' category. Looking at Celtic's reported home attendances (includes all their STs), this sesaon, I'd suggest that they would include Hearts and Hibs in their "meh" category. St Mirren 46812 Heart of Midlothian 49023 Hibernian 48625 Hamilton Academical 47446 Rangers 58874 Aberdeen 46446 Dundee United 47523 Inverness Caledonian Thistle 46096 Kilmarnock 44522 St Johnstone 41522 Motherwell 40750 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gods a Jambo Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 ******* sickening. Not surprising though. Short sighted pish yet again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Sad - very very sad. It is sad, very very sad. But that's the reality our club chairmen have created. They care more about getting SKY/ESPN money and take you the mug-punter 'supporter' completely for granted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Heaney Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Im sure there`ll be more bombshells to be revealed. New TV deal? A deal in which the tv company decides the SPL will play games on a Sunday evening again? This was hinted by that goat Brown of StJohnscum the other day and it wouldn`t surprise me if these experts have decided on it. I know that as a fact Hearts were interested in Friday night games, dunno if this has been discussed as a part of a new set-up but I think I'd be interested in that, certainly more interested in that than I am a Sunday afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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