kingantti1874 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 If we are in contention for the title then its definatey the league, if we are out of contention then the SC is the top prize.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I can't believe Hearts fans are daring to be choosy about Silverware preferences - a wee bit ahead of ourselves aren't we? Any/all trophy wins are always welcome in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 with the position we've put ourselves in over the last 10 games to prioritise a knock-out competition would be foolhardy imo. we could play a blinder tomorrow & go out to a fluke goal. See now, that's not a bad argument at all... I doubt there's anyone who would rather see us win the SC than the league but what is realistic and achievable might not necessarily hold the least risk as per your point above. Then again if Rangers think they can hold on at the top plus compete in both cups and also play in Europe, should we really be thinking this way anyway? Maybe it's all just psychological..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Treasurer Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I've always thought the most important game is our next one. I'm sure JJ will pick his squad with the view to having the maximum chance of winning ALL games and not picking and choosing which ones he wants to win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 I can't believe Hearts fans are daring to be choosy about Silverware preferences - a wee bit ahead of ourselves aren't we? Any/all trophy wins are always welcome in my opinion. Snot about being choosy CB, it's about prioritisation and what we realistically believe we can achieve this season. I don't doubt that the vast majority of us would pretty much die of gratitude, happiness and disbelief if we were to ever win the league so that's always going to be the big one...but we can win cups on the odd occasion so if we had to make choices, what would they be and why? Just a little brainstrainer for a boring Monday afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 See now, that's not a bad argument at all... I doubt there's anyone who would rather see us win the SC than the league but what is realistic and achievable might not necessarily hold the least risk as per your point above. Then again if Rangers think they can hold on at the top plus compete in both cups and also play in Europe, should we really be thinking this way anyway? Maybe it's all just psychological..... IF 1986 taught us anything at all then it is just how quickly dreams of glory and triumph can evaporate and just how cruel football can be! Better to just enjoy the season and see where we end up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Realistically speaking, we could get second. But I reckon our main hop for glory is the Cup. Win that this year, finish miles above the rest, and within between 3 and 5 points of the top team and mount an effective league challenge next season with a squad that knows how to go about winning trophies and no fear of the old firm. Although in saying that if we did get first place it would be a fantastic achievement, but in order to do that I reckon we will need to win the next lot of old firm games, mostly away, and then draw the rest, something we could get at home, but our record in Glasgow isn't fantastic (but then again nor is anyone elses)and I don't know if we could. Cup we could definately do. League is just that bit harder, but with the way this season is going maybe, but I wont get my hopes up until we are down to the clinching game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I can't believe Hearts fans are daring to be choosy about Silverware preferences - a wee bit ahead of ourselves aren't we? Any/all trophy wins are always welcome in my opinion. It's all hypothetical, Charles and our views change nothing in the real world. All of us would welcome any silverware but it's an interesting discussion as to guage people's opinions as to what would be the priority with the squad we have in the position we are in. If we can't discuss this sort of thing then there is no point in this messageboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigolo-Aunt Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 How about we just fight on all fronts and see where that takes us. JJ will learn from his squad by doing just that. Then, if we come up short, we look to strengthen in areas that let us down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 It's all hypothetical, Charles and our views change nothing in the real world. All of us would welcome any silverware but it's an interesting discussion as to guage people's opinions as to what would be the priority with the squad we have in the position we are in. If we can't discuss this sort of thing then there is no point in this messageboard. We should prioritise the forthcoming game, then the next one but not until the previous game is over, then the next one after that etc. Dreams can easily be shattered in football and one wrong turn or result can be your undoing. There are only 5 Scottish Cup games or at most 9 with replays. There are 19 SPL games remaining. It is easier to negotiate a shorter fixture list thus the cup is theoretically and actually easier to win however in cup competitions you have far less margin for error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 How about we just fight on all fronts and see where that takes us. JJ will learn from his squad by doing just that. Then, if we come up short, we look to strengthen in areas that let us down. This ^^^^^^ - it might not be possible to strengthen if we lost or sold key players however the caveat to that is maintaining relative strength compared to our competitors as all teams lose players - it' how well the team and new players adapt to the fresh challenges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigolo-Aunt Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 This ^^^^^^ - it might not be possible to strengthen if we lost or sold key players however the caveat to that is maintaining relative strength compared to our competitors as all teams lose players - it' how well the team and new players adapt to the fresh challenges. That said, Charles - would be happy enough for Hearts to bring in another forward with a bit of presence about him. If Kyle is out, I think that leaves us a bit short up there. Apart from that, play on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 We should prioritise the forthcoming game, then the next one but not until the previous game is over, then the next one after that etc. Dreams can easily be shattered in football and one wrong turn or result can be your undoing. There are only 5 Scottish Cup games or at most 9 with replays. There are 19 SPL games remaining. It is easier to negotiate a shorter fixture list thus the cup is theoretically and actually easier to win however in cup competitions you have far less margin for error. Agree, and if I was Jim Jefferies, I'd take it one game at a time like you say. My only real contribution to this thread though is to echo the sentiment that we really are up there challenging, even if it's only for now - so let's enjoy it. Personally, I'm not too scared to say we at least have an outside chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamhammer Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Personally, I don't think we're capable of winning the league. We are more than capable of winning the Cup. This for me. Course I'd be more than happy with the league just think that, realistically we have a better chance in the cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EreWeG0.. Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I'd prefer league as i have seen a cup win, as much of a feeling that was, i have not had the same feeling about winning the league - nearly in 86 - it came to the last game and THAT feeling was the worst low i can remember. Might heal the memories with a league win Can but dream.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboy81 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Looks like alot of folk have misunderstood the poll and are answering the question "What would you rather win - the league or the cup?" so the results might be a bit skewed. I personally would prioritise the cup first as I don't see us finishing any higher than 3rd with the current squad. If we keep even half decent form we should finish 3rd or 4th in the league which would be a good season if there was a cup win to go with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wright1989 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I'd love to see us win the league and if we ever did, I could die a happy man! Re this season, we ARE in the title race. I'm not suggesting for one second that we'll win it, but we are in it. Therefore, as long as we're in it, it is and always should be our no1 priority. However, if we were to chose between winning the cup and 'splitting the Old Firm' (a term I hate), then I'd chose the cup every time. We split the Old Firm in 1986, 1988, 1990 and 1992. I can't remember seeing an open top bus parade through the city for any of those. In summary: No1 priority: the league No2 priority: the cup No3 priority: qualify for Europe Got I hate that too! Big fecking deal. Close thread we had a WINNER! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 We also have to factor in the advantage Rangers & Celtic currently hold over us - Celtic have to lose 2 games and us win 2 to put us into pole position ahead of them whilst Rangers have to lose 3 games and us win 1 to put us above them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wright1989 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 We also have to factor in the advantage Rangers & Celtic currently hold over us - Celtic have to lose 2 games and us win 2 to put us into pole position ahead of them whilst Rangers have to lose 3 games and us win 1 to put us above them. If we are 5 points below top after the split then we still have a good chance. It would come down to who wanted it more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hackney Hearts Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 This for me. Course I'd be more than happy with the league just think that, realistically we have a better chance in the cup. Thing is, with the cup, there's always next year. Whereas with the league, since we returned to the top flight in the 80's, we only get ourselves into some sort of title challenging position about once every 6 or 7 years on average. These rare opportunities are precious. Still wouldn't mess around with fielding weakened teams in the cup though. Certainly not at this stage. There might be a hypothetical scenario, in April maybe, where we have to play our nearest title rivals in a cup semi and then in the league three days later, and we have a couple of key players who are only fit enough to be risked in one match... doh, it's not going to happen, is it? Must get back to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 If we are 5 points below top after the split then we still have a good chance. It would come down to who wanted it more. It's not like we can't compete with them in terms of football at the moment. Thinking of the OF matches actually gives me a wee shiver of excitement and not one teeny wee bit of fear. How weird. I really hope the players feel that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Merse Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 We also have to factor in the advantage Rangers & Celtic currently hold over us - Celtic have to lose 2 games and us win 2 to put us into pole position ahead of them whilst Rangers have to lose 3 games and us win 1 to put us above them. Only if you take for granted that Rangers will win both of their games in hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 NOt really sure what we're arguing about here. Everyone would prefer to win the league over the cup. There's no reason to pick a weakened side for tomorrow as we haven't played for ten days, and we haven't had that many games in December with the snow. Obviously, if anyone is a close call, you'd probably leave them out, as we have enough of a squad to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Only if you take for granted that Rangers will win both of their games in hand. Wrong - we are 2 points behind Rangers having played 2 more thus we NEED them to lose BOTH games in hand plus lose another game whilst we also must win our game for us to go ahead of them. Whichever we you look at it Rangers currently have a 3 game advantage on us, beating them once is the easiest way to go ahead of them in the requirement for them to lose + us win but they still must also lose the 2 games in hand. Any points they take in those matches increases their lead that we'd need to claw back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio1980 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 strongest team selectable should always be on the team sheet for me, unless playing a much lower team in terms of quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Tolbooth Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Scottish Cup for me every time The reason I chose that is because when the season starts we realistically have a better chance of cup glory than sustaining a league challenge over the course of a season, however should a run of results (like this season) put us in a challenging position, then you gladly accept it when it comes along, but seeing as these league runs are few and far between, the cup was my choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Loblaw Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 We've got 19 games left in the spl. To win the league I'd say we have to win 13 of those at least. If we can maintain our form it's possible, but difficult. Difference being if we drop points in the league we get the chance to redeem it. If we lose tomorrow we're out and our most realistic chance of silverware is gone. No way should we be resting players for tomorrow IMO. Obviously everyone would prefer a league win over the cup, but what if we rest players, lose tomorrow and have a poor January? We'd be out the cup and only have 3rd to aim for. We should be going into this game with everything we've got. Anyway why does it have to be one or the other? We gave the cup our all in 98 and 06 and still sustained a reasonable challenge against much better old firm teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA MAROON Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Resting our best players in the cup might get us an extra 6 points in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 See, this is were it all breaks down between ourselves and the Old Firm in the mental stakes. The Old Firm go out to win everything, they think they can win everything. How can you judge everything to be perfect? What? rest 3 or 4 players and still get beaten in the league games when they come(not saying we are, but all games start as 50/50)? And at that, run the risk of going out in the tournament which holds the best chance of silverware because we done so? Sorry, the thought process of some is going way way the wrong way. Put out the strongest team possible tomorrow and do the same on Saturday, then the game after that and the game after that......................and who knows, we may still be in the same position this time next month, strong in the league and still in the cup...keep all avenues open for success because you don`t know how its going to pan out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Today and tomorrow the priority is the Cup. Wednesday and the next 3 weeks or so the priority is the League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I don't care how often Kickback tells me to, but I won't choose. Tomorrow nights game is the most important, but following that, the Dundee United game is the most important. We just need to keep winning. In my humble opinion, we are not anything like serious challengers for the title. For that to be the case, we would need to win at least two of the three games against the dirty two that we have coming up. If we do that, then we can start talking like that. Until then, the Scottish Cup is our biggest chance at any sort of glory. So, Ah'm no votin', I want both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Today and tomorrow the priority is the Cup. Wednesday and the next 3 weeks or so the priority is the League. correct DH. Really don`t see a problem here? Cannae cope with a midweek cup tie then back to league biz at the weekend? seems to be a modern thing of recent years this "prioritising". What if tomorrow was a european tie, would people want a weakened team put out then with a view to the league match at the weekend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McJambo Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 correct DH. Really don`t see a problem here? Cannae cope with a midweek cup tie then back to league biz at the weekend? seems to be a modern thing of recent years this "prioritising". What if tomorrow was a european tie, would people want a weakened team put out then with a view to the league match at the weekend? Heres a tough one................ If you could choose between putting out a weakened team in the Cup and going out in the next two rounds but staying in the league title race until Mid April. Play full teams in both competitions pick up injuries and fall away in the league but get to the semi final of the cup. Not guaranteed to win either but in with a great shout of one or the other? I'd go league.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA MAROON Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 It happens all the time. Squad rotation is nothing new and we have the squad so we can rest players. Forget the cup, we have won that before. The league is what matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawasakijambo Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 League for me. Hate to say it but i hope hibs thump celtic on Saturday. If we are gonna win it we need help from every non auld firm team in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 League for me. Hate to say it but i hope hibs thump celtic on Saturday. If we are gonna win it we need help from every non auld firm team in the league. I agree. Hibs taking points, any points, would be a right result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunks Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 One game at a time - the next game is Scottish Cup, therefore I voted for Scottish Cup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Voted for the league, have to aim high Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Why not try to win both games? But to answer the OP winning the Cup is more important that finishing 3rd in the League which is where we will finish this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorgie_rebel Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I voted for the League because that simply is the "holy grail" in football in this country. However that in no way demeans the way I feel about Hearts in the Scottish Cup. Until we get a level playing field with cash distribution etc (another argument entirely I know), cup competitions are the only real tangable acolades that we stand a fair chance of winning. I can see where GM is coming from with what he said, but I think that the most important game Hearts play is always the next one and in this case it's the cup. That will change again on Wed. And I'm sure the Hearts managment team will be thinking the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 That is spooky Redm, I was about to post exactly the same!! Cup game tomorrow is priority IMHO Thankfully, we have an "old-fashioned" Manager who picks a team to go out and win every game, and I'm quite happy with that as it seems to be working so far. It's bringing excitement back to Hearts and us Jambo's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neave Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I fancy a trip to Hampden this year, and we aren't going to challenge the OF, so I voted the cup. Although if the squad's strength in depth is as good as Jim says it is, it might be difficult for us to send out a 'weakened' team in any competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Heres a tough one................ If you could choose between putting out a weakened team in the Cup and going out in the next two rounds but staying in the league title race until Mid April. Play full teams in both competitions pick up injuries and fall away in the league but get to the semi final of the cup. Not guaranteed to win either but in with a great shout of one or the other? I'd go league.......... All hypothetical bud. Nobody knows whats going to happen? Put out yer strongest team , end of imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedy_Jambo Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I've seen Hearts finish 2nd in the league on 4 different occassions. I'd take the cup wins over that any day, never mind 3rd. Winning trophies is what it's about. I suppose, but i would like to know how much cash you get for winning the cup compared to the top 3 league positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussAsia Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I voted for the cup because i think to win the league we would need to win 15 of our last 19 games.. should we lose to Celtic then we would need to win 17 of the 19 games.. i cant see that happening.. With a good draw in the cup you could be in the final before you know it.. Play our strongest team tonight then continue to do so until the end of January.. Once the old firm fixtures are out the way we will know if we need to rest players or not for a League Title assault.. i doubt it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossthejambo Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 It happens all the time. Squad rotation is nothing new and we have the squad so we can rest players. Forget the cup, we have won that before. The league is what matters. What a ridiculous thing to say? Technically, we've won the league before, should we stop bothering about that as well? If we were to field a weakened team tonight (not forced) and we got beat I'd be pretty dam pissed off. We've not won enough things to just write a competition off. We should be looking to win every single game with the strongest possible team at every opportunity. I trust that JJ has the same mentality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA MAROON Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 What a ridiculous thing to say? Technically, we've won the league before, should we stop bothering about that as well? If we were to field a weakened team tonight (not forced) and we got beat I'd be pretty dam pissed off. We've not won enough things to just write a competition off. We should be looking to win every single game with the strongest possible team at every opportunity. I trust that JJ has the same mentality Under 5,000 going to tonights game. That shows the interest Hearts fans have. The biggest games are against the Old Firm and it is important our best players are available for these games if we are serious about the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossthejambo Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Under 5,000 going to tonights game. That shows the interest Hearts fans have. The biggest games are against the Old Firm and it is important our best players are available for these games if we are serious about the league. I'd imagine that the price of it in close proximity to Christmas and it now being a midweek game will have had a pretty big effect on ticket sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 http://sport.scotsma...arts.6685502.jp Had a read of this a short while ago and I'm still qutie surprised by Mackay's comments. [/font] It's a bit of a difficult question to ask people and it might seem unfair but hey, it's Monday, it's quiet and there isn't much else to talk about. So....in terms of team selection, injuries to first pick players, risk, reward and all of that jazz...put yourself in JJ's shoes and decide what your priority would be, how you would handle it and who you would play. Which is it? League or Cup? Simply both... Although as you rightly say, it is a far more complex question than just that. If it is a choice between genuinely challenging for the league title then that has to be priority but that way we could end up neglecting the cup and our (probably) only realistic chance of a trophy. On the other hand the thought of us not having the belief to challenge for the title is enough to make me want to give up altogether... we should always believe we are capable of winning the tournament we have entered for the last century plus. Considering the above, i think you have to trust that we are treating both with equal desire and respect and wanting and trying to win both. I voted league though... Just because I want to win it. i know that that is very unlikely though and I would rather have the Scottish Cup than finish second or third. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 the beauty about having one of our exceptional league seasons is that - in the event of us getting a boot up the jacksie in the cup - we will still have lots to keep us occupied for the rest of the season. we would appear to be pretty much certain of competing for 3rd place throughout the season, at a bare minimum. if we were having one of our mediocre seasons then the cup becomes a huge deal. an early exit would leave us with virtually nothing. 'mon the ayr united. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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