Putting young players into perspective

[JamboJohn1874]

There are a lot of apologists on Kickback who keep telling the rest of us to get off the back of the likes of Elliot, so we can give them a chance to find their feet in the first team and develop into players. In fact almost every time Elliot gets a game, someone criticises him on this forum, swiftly to be met by the usual crap, ?stand by your players? or perhaps that old favourite, ?they are only youngsters?.

 

While I?m sure every one of us wishes the best for everyone wearing the coveted maroon jersey, a dose of reality is required here. Why should the rest of us be forced to endure mediocrity, and pay money to watch sh~t football every week.

 

As of Saturday with Elliot and Mole, we now in my opinion have the worst strike force, in some 20 years, and yes I am including Husref Musemic.

 

Thinking back over the last 20 or so years I remember the first seasons of Gary MacKay, John Robertson, Gary Locke, Gary Naysmith, Graig Gordon and even Craig Levein when we took him from Cowdenbeath. I didn?t feel the need to boo my own players when they came on. I never felt my heart sink when I heard their name on the team sheet via the P.A system. I never felt the need to apologise to anyone over yet another poor performance. I was simply encouraged by the fact that I could see they had ability and would clearly in time make it. Don?t forget the listed players were all same age or considerably younger than Elliot or Mole.

 

Elliot?s strike rate is about 1 goal in every 20 games, John Robertson was averaging over 20 a season at this age. Elliot he runs about like a headless chicken, Wayne Foster style and is an utter liability with yellow and red cards.

 

Put it in all in perspective and then ask yourself if Elliot and Mole etc are worthy of a maroon jersey. We can clearly do much much better !

 

Elliot GTF now !

Mole GTF

Driver GTF

 

Frail - GTF

[cosanostra]

I'd have Mole and Elliott before Wyness and Weir.

[Ray Winstone]

I would agree that it is a fans right to boo players when they see fit - Although I dont do it myself.

 

I also agree that Elliot is no way good enough to play for Hearts - despite showing some improvement recently I still would not say he is playing "well" just not as bad as he was before.

 

Mole has not been given his chance at Hearts - he was rushed into the first team and then promptly shipped out on several unsuccesful loans - however from what I have heard and seen in the highlights he showed some nice touches yesterday.

 

Dont really know where you are coming from regarding Driver - made an excellent start to the season and has suffered through lack of fitness and playing in a rank team.

 

Frail is doing all he can under the circumstances. Yes he is not up to the job but he was handed it by Romanov and just has to soldier on to the end of the season.

[the voice from above]

There are a lot of apologists on Kickback who keep telling the rest of us to get off the back of the likes of Elliot, so we can give them a chance to find their feet in the first team and develop into players. In fact almost every time Elliot gets a game, someone criticises him on this forum, swiftly to be met by the usual crap, “stand by your players” or perhaps that old favourite, “they are only youngsters”.

 

While I’m sure every one of us wishes the best for everyone wearing the coveted maroon jersey, a dose of reality is required here. Why should the rest of us be forced to endure mediocrity, and pay money to watch sh~t football every week.

 

As of Saturday with Elliot and Mole, we now in my opinion have the worst strike force, in some 20 years, and yes I am including Husref Musemic.

 

Thinking back over the last 20 or so years I remember the first seasons of Gary MacKay, John Robertson, Gary Locke, Gary Naysmith, Graig Gordon and even Craig Levein when we took him from Cowdenbeath. I didn’t feel the need to boo my own players when they came on. I never felt my heart sink when I heard their name on the team sheet via the P.A system. I never felt the need to apologise to anyone over yet another poor performance. I was simply encouraged by the fact that I could see they had ability and would clearly in time make it. Don’t forget the listed players were all same age or considerably younger than Elliot or Mole.

 

Elliot’s strike rate is about 1 goal in every 20 games, John Robertson was averaging over 20 a season at this age. Elliot he runs about like a headless chicken, Wayne Foster style and is an utter liability with yellow and red cards.

 

Put it in all in perspective and then ask yourself if Elliot and Mole etc are worthy of a maroon jersey. We can clearly do much much better !

 

Elliot GTF now !

Mole GTF

Driver GTF

 

Frail - GTF

 

 

felling positive today are we ?

 

I don't think you can throw mole and certainly not driver in with elliot.

 

Yes elliot is young but he's had plenty of chances and hasn't progressed in the past 2 years (probably become worse actually).

 

Mole has had virtually no chance and driver I think has been pretty good (he's 19 right?).

 

The problem is that our players show potential as youngsters then fail to progress when put into the 1st team. I blame this on the entirely negative attitude which surrounds our club and the lack of effective support systems offered to the youngsters when they're coming through.

 

JamboJohn1874 GTF!

[Sherlock]

...Elliot GTF now !

Mole GTF

Driver GTF

 

Frail - GTF

 

Who do you think should be playing up front until the end of the season?

 

And who do you think should be coaching and picking the first team until the end of the season?

[Simmo]

Who do you think should be playing up front until the end of the season?

 

And who do you think should be coaching and picking the first team until the end of the season?

 

Obviously JamboJohn thinks he should be !!! I think he should take his own advice and [mod edit].

[Drylaw Hearts]

The choice is -

 

1) Mole and Elliot with Driver on the left.

 

Or

 

2) Bennyuseless and Makela with Audry on the left.

 

 

 

Decisions Decisions

 

 

I'll go for Option 1.

[bigbryanthejambo]

Can see your point as far as Elliot who has had numerous chances to impress and largely FAILED....however Andy Driver is IMO one of the only shining lights and possible stars in our squad. NO WAY would I want him to GTF.

 

and Jamie Mole looks strong, interested and possibly a player who may come good given a wee bit more time. The fact that he looks interested and keen must count for something.

[Gimme an H...]

The choice is -

 

1) Mole and Elliot with Driver on the left.

 

Or

 

2) Bennyuseless and Makela with Audry on the left.

 

 

 

Decisions Decisions

 

 

I'll go for Option 1.

 

Not trying to pick a fight here or be controversial but I'd seriously prefer Option 2, i think it would be alot more effective in the SPL.

[Flogel98]

There are a lot of apologists on Kickback who keep telling the rest of us to get off the back of the likes of Elliot, so we can give them a chance to find their feet in the first team and develop into players. In fact almost every time Elliot gets a game, someone criticises him on this forum, swiftly to be met by the usual crap, ?stand by your players? or perhaps that old favourite, ?they are only youngsters?.

 

While I?m sure every one of us wishes the best for everyone wearing the coveted maroon jersey, a dose of reality is required here. Why should the rest of us be forced to endure mediocrity, and pay money to watch sh~t football every week.

 

As of Saturday with Elliot and Mole, we now in my opinion have the worst strike force, in some 20 years, and yes I am including Husref Musemic.

 

Thinking back over the last 20 or so years I remember the first seasons of Gary MacKay, John Robertson, Gary Locke, Gary Naysmith, Graig Gordon and even Craig Levein when we took him from Cowdenbeath. I didn?t feel the need to boo my own players when they came on. I never felt my heart sink when I heard their name on the team sheet via the P.A system. I never felt the need to apologise to anyone over yet another poor performance. I was simply encouraged by the fact that I could see they had ability and would clearly in time make it. Don?t forget the listed players were all same age or considerably younger than Elliot or Mole.

 

Elliot?s strike rate is about 1 goal in every 20 games, John Robertson was averaging over 20 a season at this age. Elliot he runs about like a headless chicken, Wayne Foster style and is an utter liability with yellow and red cards.

 

 

No he wasn't. IIRC JR only broke 20 league goals for us once, I think in 86, prior to the World Cup where we were the only nation not to take their top league goal scorer. His average was probably nearer 16/17. Sure someone at London Hearts could confirm this and he had the luxury of playing in a much more settled side with better players around him for much of his time at Hearts.

 

Given what we have on the books just now, who exactly would you play..

 

Calum has had a rough time of late but it's fair to say that his form dropped after being sent to Motherwell on loan.

 

While not the most gifted player we have, he tries his heart out every time he plays - maybe tries a bit to hard - which is more than can be said for some around the club.

 

If you want to slaughter our own players, that's your right but don't think for one second that you're helping the situation by doing so.

 

If you want to do this on forums like this, knock yourself out, if your doing this at games - stay in the house.

[Jamboelite]

The choice is -

 

1) Mole and Elliot with Driver on the left.

 

Or

 

2) Bennyuseless and Makela with Audry on the left.

 

 

 

Decisions Decisions

 

 

I'll go for Option 1.

 

Thanks for cheering me up jesus its come to this choice.

[Gimme an H...]

Can see your point as far as Elliot who has had numerous chances to impress and largely FAILED....however Andy Driver is IMO one of the only shining lights and possible stars in our squad. NO WAY would I want him to GTF.

 

and Jamie Mole looks strong, interested and possibly a player who may come good given a wee bit more time. The fact that he looks interested and keen must count for something.

 

If I was asked to play for Hearts id be interested and keen but it doesnt mean im good enough to play for Hearts does it?

[lambojambo]

Obviously JamboJohn thinks he should be !!! I think he should take his own advice and [mod edit]

 

 

The guy makes a reasoned and valid point - unlike your self.

 

[mod edit]

[Praha06]

There are a lot of apologists on Kickback who keep telling the rest of us to get off the back of the likes of Elliot, so we can give them a chance to find their feet in the first team and develop into players. In fact almost every time Elliot gets a game, someone criticises him on this forum, swiftly to be met by the usual crap, ?stand by your players? or perhaps that old favourite, ?they are only youngsters?.

 

While I?m sure every one of us wishes the best for everyone wearing the coveted maroon jersey, a dose of reality is required here. Why should the rest of us be forced to endure mediocrity, and pay money to watch sh~t football every week.

 

As of Saturday with Elliot and Mole, we now in my opinion have the worst strike force, in some 20 years, and yes I am including Husref Musemic.

 

Thinking back over the last 20 or so years I remember the first seasons of Gary MacKay, John Robertson, Gary Locke, Gary Naysmith, Graig Gordon and even Craig Levein when we took him from Cowdenbeath. I didn?t feel the need to boo my own players when they came on. I never felt my heart sink when I heard their name on the team sheet via the P.A system. I never felt the need to apologise to anyone over yet another poor performance. I was simply encouraged by the fact that I could see they had ability and would clearly in time make it. Don?t forget the listed players were all same age or considerably younger than Elliot or Mole.

 

Elliot?s strike rate is about 1 goal in every 20 games, John Robertson was averaging over 20 a season at this age. Elliot he runs about like a headless chicken, Wayne Foster style and is an utter liability with yellow and red cards.

 

Put it in all in perspective and then ask yourself if Elliot and Mole etc are worthy of a maroon jersey. We can clearly do much much better !

 

Elliot GTF now !

Mole GTF

Driver GTF

 

Frail - GTF

 

You will get your get your wish in the summer.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Not trying to pick a fight here or be controversial but I'd seriously prefer Option 2, i think it would be alot more effective in the SPL.

 

I honestly don't think it would.

[Makween]

I think that people are far too harsh on Mole.

 

Elliott, I can understand - although I don't really think that it's fair to boo him when he's giving 100% and just isn't good enough. Mole, on the other hand, has a reasonable strikerate for us. He was poor on loan, and did miss a few sitters when he was in the team, but what does anyone honestly expect when he was thrown in at the deep end at 18?

 

Edit : I'm not going to say that people who boo / heckle players are worse fans than me or whatever, that'd be childish. I'm not sure what anyone thinks they're achieving, though?

[lambojambo]

You will get your get your wish in the summer.

 

 

 

That's the problem - I don't think he will!

[JamboJohn1874]

Mole couldn't cut it when out on loan in a considerably lower league, yet all of a sudden he is first team material again.

 

In place of Elliot I could live with for a few weeks, but the two of them together ?

[Sherlock]

The guy makes a reasoned and valid point - unlike your self...

 

Does he?

 

He ends his post with Driver, Elliot, Mole & Frail to GTF.

 

Considering the striking and managerial / coaching options if he was to get his wish, do you think his point is reasoned?

 

If you do, Who do you think should be playing up front until the end of the season and who do you think should be coaching and picking the first team until the end of the season?

[Makween]

Mole couldn't cut it when out on loan in a considerably lower league, yet all of a sudden he is first team material again.

 

I just think that we should judge him on what he's done / does for Hearts rather than games in which I'd guess that none of us saw him play.

 

Having him back in the team is very underwhelming, but surely he should be cut some slack? I'm not talking about you personally, but it does seem a bit over the top to have people giving it the "Mole GTF" patter after one game back in the team.

[Praha06]

That's the problem - I don't think he will!

 

Frail will be the next "Romanov casualty". Campbell Ogilvie's "promotion" is also bad news.

 

Info I received yesterday.

[Rick Grimes]

I'd have Mole and Elliott before Wyness and Weir.

 

 

OK, your next choice is "A Poke In the Eye" or "A Kick in the Balls"

[JamboJohn1874]

I'm not going to say that people who boo / heckle players are worse fans than me or whatever, that'd be childish. I'm not sure what anyone thinks they're achieving, though?

 

It is making it perfectly clear to management and upwards that the sh~t being served up is not good enough. If we accept the status quo and utter mediocrity now, we will be middle of the league team for the next few years.

 

Time for positive action in the close season, Elliot and Frail must go!

[Rick Grimes]

Frail will be the next "Romanov casualty". Campbell Ogilvie's "promotion" is also bad news.

 

Info I received yesterday.

 

 

care to elaborate?

[Drylaw Hearts]

Frail will be the next "Romanov casualty". Campbell Ogilvie's "promotion" is also bad news.

 

Info I received yesterday.

 

Bad news ?

 

Why ?

[Boris]

Frail will be the next "Romanov casualty". Campbell Ogilvie's "promotion" is also bad news.

 

Info I received yesterday.

 

Care to elaborate?

 

You don't need to name names, but what you told us doesn't really say anything. Meat needed for dem bones!

[Makween]

It is making it perfectly clear to management and upwards that the sh~t being served up is not good enough. If we accept the status quo and utter mediocrity now, we will be middle of the league team for the next few years.

 

Time for positive action in the close season, Elliot and Frail must go!

 

I think that it's been proven that the views of the fans don't influence those in charge one way or the other. I do see what you're saying, but for me if you're going to vent your frustration at anyone it should be those in charge rather than the players - it's not their fault that they aren't good enough!

[Sherlock]

Frail will be the next "Romanov casualty". Campbell Ogilvie's "promotion" is also bad news.

 

Info I received yesterday.

 

I'll give you a softer option if you don't want to elaborate too much.

 

Just confirm who it's bad news for.

[JamboJohn1874]

I think that it's been proven that the views of the fans don't influence those in charge one way or the other. I do see what you're saying, but for me if you're going to vent your frustration at anyone it should be those in charge rather than the players - it's not their fault that they aren't good enough!

 

If we can't reach the organ grider, then the monkey gets it.

 

This is simply the frustration of the fans having to put up with sub standard players and management.

[lambojambo]

I think that it's been proven that the views of the fans don't influence those in charge one way or the other. I do see what you're saying, but for me if you're going to vent your frustration at anyone it should be those in charge rather than the players - it's not their fault that they aren't good enough!

 

 

The fans "views" made Frail pull Elliot off the park after subbing him on!

[chester copperpot]

Driver - GTF

 

 

You're kidding right.

 

AD has been one of the few rays of sunshine this season.

[Sherlock]

The fans "views" made Frail pull Elliot off the park after subbing him on!

 

Behave yourself laddie.

 

Do you really believe that the fan's caused Shaggy to take him off?

[lambojambo]

Behave yourself laddie.

 

Do you really believe that the fan's caused Shaggy to take him off?

 

 

"Laddie"?? I haven't been called that for 40 years - cheers!

 

Suggest you go back and read Frail's comments - he subbed Elliot as a direct result of the fans reaction to him.

[Sherlock]

"Laddie"?? I haven't been called that for 40 years - cheers!

 

Wasn't meaning any disrespect.

 

Just a turn of phrase.

[Ryan Gosling]

why Driver? he's one of our better players, and he's scored double what he did last season - he's added pace and an end product, as this shows -

 

http://www.scotprem.premiumtv.co.uk/page/Assists/0,,10002~20073,00.html

[Colonel Kurtz]

Putting it intp perspective

Fro the under 19 team which played in the cup final against Celtic a couple of years ago, Wallace,Johnnson,Driver ,Elliott amd Mole started last saturday and jason was on the bench.

Thats and incredibly high percentage to progress,comapre with Celtic who have 0% from their team.

I believe the academy under John murray are producing players,but the coaching they have received when they made it to thefirst team has been terrible.

There have been critics of John murray,mostly from the "hingers oan" who were trying recently to promote their man for the job.They and he did not succeeed and JM deservedly got a new contract.

[frankbroxup]

There are a lot of apologists on Kickback who keep telling the rest of us to get off the back of the likes of Elliot, so we can give them a chance to find their feet in the first team and develop into players. In fact almost every time Elliot gets a game, someone criticises him on this forum, swiftly to be met by the usual crap, ?stand by your players? or perhaps that old favourite, ?they are only youngsters?.

 

While I?m sure every one of us wishes the best for everyone wearing the coveted maroon jersey, a dose of reality is required here. Why should the rest of us be forced to endure mediocrity, and pay money to watch sh~t football every week.

 

As of Saturday with Elliot and Mole, we now in my opinion have the worst strike force, in some 20 years, and yes I am including Husref Musemic.

 

Thinking back over the last 20 or so years I remember the first seasons of Gary MacKay, John Robertson, Gary Locke, Gary Naysmith, Graig Gordon and even Craig Levein when we took him from Cowdenbeath. I didn?t feel the need to boo my own players when they came on. I never felt my heart sink when I heard their name on the team sheet via the P.A system. I never felt the need to apologise to anyone over yet another poor performance. I was simply encouraged by the fact that I could see they had ability and would clearly in time make it. Don?t forget the listed players were all same age or considerably younger than Elliot or Mole.

 

Elliot?s strike rate is about 1 goal in every 20 games, John Robertson was averaging over 20 a season at this age. Elliot he runs about like a headless chicken, Wayne Foster style and is an utter liability with yellow and red cards.

 

Put it in all in perspective and then ask yourself if Elliot and Mole etc are worthy of a maroon jersey. We can clearly do much much better !

 

Elliot GTF now !

Mole GTF

Driver GTF

 

Frail - GTF

 

 

 

 

You fail to grasp reality. All the young players you mentioned were brought into a team surrounded by seasoned pros slowly and nurtured. The starting team on Saturday included 7 from the Acadamy and 4 others who cost less than ?500k. It is a big ask for all of them to mature at once. These player will more than hold there own against players of similar age as they prove when they are on International duty.If Driver does not develop into a better player than all the above mentioned ( bar Craige maybe ) Ill show my a____se

[Guest Dipped Flake]

The guy makes a reasoned and valid point - unlike your self.

 

[mod edit]

 

You mean this reasoned and valid point

Elliot GTF now !

Mole GTF

Driver GTF

 

Frail - GTF

 

Yes, a lot of reasoning went into that, and this last part of his post is what most of the posters on here are objecting to

[Guest Dipped Flake]

It is making it perfectly clear to management and upwards that the sh~t being served up is not good enough. If we accept the status quo and utter mediocrity now, we will be middle of the league team for the next few years.

 

Time for positive action in the close season, Elliot and Frail must go!

 

See you are already seeing sense, you have dropped your demand for Mole and Driver to go. As far as Elliott is concerned, I have been underwhelmed by his performances but will continue to support him every time he takes the field. As for Frail, if he indeed does follow your advice, exactly who runs the team?

[lambojambo]

You mean this reasoned and valid point

Elliot GTF now !

Mole GTF

Driver GTF

 

Frail - GTF

 

Yes, a lot of reasoning went into that, and this last part of his post is what most of the posters on here are objecting to

 

 

Apart from Driver, I think his GTF comment was well "reasoned" on the abilities of the other three!

[lambojambo]

See you are already seeing sense, you have dropped your demand for Mole and Driver to go. As far as Elliott is concerned, I have been underwhelmed by his performances but will continue to support him every time he takes the field. As for Frail, if he indeed does follow your advice, exactly who runs the team?[/QUOTE]

 

 

The experienced, internationally renowned Manager we were once promised perhaps?

[jamboinglasgow]

since when did the phrase gtf is a sign for reason in an argument. Think the poster is taking a very exterme view in terms of Hearts and elliot, Mole and Driver.

 

To me, I think we should try a mole and elliot partnership for a few more weeks, if it doesn't work then we should not use it but if it does then I will be delighted. Think Elliot has had a bad time but still has potential that may still come.

 

As for saying Driver should go, who have you been watching on our left wing this season? Driver has come on alot this season and at the age of 19 is not near his best which is good news. The boy destroyed Hutton when Hutton was seen as world class. Tore up Celtic and even took apart Murphey when he played hibs at RW. Yes there is parts of Drivers games which can be improved but he is a decent player.

 

Col Kurtz, I agree with you that the Academy is doing it's job, it produces a higher quality of player then we have had for the last 20 years at least and the problem is that transistion from youth to senior. THat is why we need a manager who is youth minded. Also I have never gone at John Murry think that fact that a few clubs wanted him shows his strength but think we need a head coach for the youths and Darren Murry is not this person.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

since when did the phrase gtf is a sign for reason in an argument. Think the poster is taking a very exterme view in terms of Hearts and elliot, Mole and Driver.

 

To me, I think we should try a mole and elliot partnership for a few more weeks, if it doesn't work then we should not use it but if it does then I will be delighted. Think Elliot has had a bad time but still has potential that may still come.

 

As for saying Driver should go, who have you been watching on our left wing this season? Driver has come on alot this season and at the age of 19 is not near his best which is good news. The boy destroyed Hutton when Hutton was seen as world class. Tore up Celtic and even took apart Murphey when he played hibs at RW. Yes there is parts of Drivers games which can be improved but he is a decent player.

 

Col Kurtz, I agree with you that the Academy is doing it's job, it produces a higher quality of player then we have had for the last 20 years at least and the problem is that transistion from youth to senior. THat is why we need a manager who is youth minded. Also I have never gone at John Murry think that fact that a few clubs wanted him shows his strength but think we need a head coach for the youths and Darren Murry is not this person.

 

 

Agreed

[SAMBOMAN]

Putting it intp perspective

Fro the under 19 team which played in the cup final against Celtic a couple of years ago, Wallace,Johnnson,Driver ,Elliott amd Mole started last saturday and jason was on the bench.

Thats and incredibly high percentage to progress,comapre with Celtic who have 0% from their team.

I believe the academy under John murray are producing players,but the coaching they have received when they made it to thefirst team has been terrible.

There have been critics of John murray,mostly from the "hingers oan" who were trying recently to promote their man for the job.They and he did not succeeed and JM deservedly got a new contract.

 

The players you mention are imo not just suffering from poor first team coaching but have came through a system where both Darren murray and shaggy have had involvement in the development of the boys. That in itself must have had an adverse affect on their potential.

 

With regards to John Murray he never had a contract before the celtic offer and would have taken the celtic job in a second if it wasn't for other personal reasons relating to a family matter. As i mentioned in an earlier thread Rangers made an offer to murray a week after he knocked back the celtic one and gave the same answer. So he must be highly thought of.

 

His blind spot is being loyal to coaches who dont have the ability to take the academy forward. We are not producing the quality of player that is required to take the club forward that is a fact, so the system must be changed and quickly. There are extremely talented boys at the club many whom are not the regulars who are mentioned on here and they will all suffer unless we give them the best coaching we can.

 

Dont believe the hype and and a certain bull**** coach our youth academy is no where near being the best in scotland at times it is a laughing stock.

[Makween]

The fans "views" made Frail pull Elliot off the park after subbing him on!

 

...but didn't stop him from subsequently playing him in most games since.

[J.T.F.Robertson]

Frail will be the next "Romanov casualty". Campbell Ogilvie's "promotion" is also bad news.

 

Info I received yesterday.

 

Is it possible you could expand on this? I'll probably regret asking, but when something I interpreted as a rare positive, is now intimated to be yet another kick in the heid, I need to know. (masochism rules, ya bass)

[Spellczech]

Putting it intp perspective

Fro the under 19 team which played in the cup final against Celtic a couple of years ago, Wallace,Johnnson,Driver ,Elliott amd Mole started last saturday and jason was on the bench.

Thats and incredibly high percentage to progress,comapre with Celtic who have 0% from their team.

I believe the academy under John murray are producing players,but the coaching they have received when they made it to thefirst team has been terrible.

There have been critics of John murray,mostly from the "hingers oan" who were trying recently to promote their man for the job.They and he did not succeeed and JM deservedly got a new contract.

 

Is that not indicative of how good Celtic are compared to us at the moment as much as anything else?

 

Celtic have in the last few years brought through McGeady, McManus and O?Dea - Maloney and the guy just dumped by Sunderland after going to Manu were 2 others brought through in the time we only produced Neilson... There was also another one whose name began with "L" but he seems to have disappeared again.

 

Hate to say it but the quality of the coaching at the academy does concern me. Why do players move up and down age-groups as much as they seem to do? - there seems to be little distinction between U19s and the reserves...Why does Kostadinov apparently excel whenever he plays away from Hearts yet not in maroon? I guess what I am asking is: are the Hearts kids learning to be footballers or hatchet men hoofbalers?

[jambos are go!]

Reading this vindictive thread I cant help contrasting some fans reaction to all those who got behind Paul Ritchie and Alan McManus when Jeffries threw them into the first team defence. It was not always like this.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

The way Mole was chucked in the deep end and used was horrific.

 

People seem to forget that he looked a great prospect when he first came onto the scene. He was strong, pacey and direct.

 

Elliot looked great under Rix and next to Jankauskas, so much so he was touted for the young player of the year award.

 

I think they have both been the victim of terrible, terrible coaching and guidance.

 

I don't know who is to blame for that though, take your pick.

[Charlie-Brown]

Is that not indicative of how good Celtic are compared to us at the moment as much as anything else?

 

Celtic have in the last few years brought through McGeady, McManus and O?Dea - Maloney and the guy just dumped by Sunderland after going to Manu were 2 others brought through in the time we only produced Neilson... There was also another one whose name began with "L" but he seems to have disappeared again.

 

Hate to say it but the quality of the coaching at the academy does concern me. Why do players move up and down age-groups as much as they seem to do? - there seems to be little distinction between U19s and the reserves...Why does Kostadinov apparently excel whenever he plays away from Hearts yet not in maroon? I guess what I am asking is: are the Hearts kids learning to be footballers or hatchet men hoofbalers?

 

Celtic have won the SPL reserve league in the last 6 consecutive seasons since 2001-02 and have also won the SPL U19 league in 4 of the last 5 seasons.

 

Celtic are a real shame for young players as all bar a very few hit a glass ceiling in that they are continually overlooked in favour of bought in stars thus even those who do get some games seldom get the chance to develop their full potential at Celtic.

 

Only McManus & McGeady could be considered regulars and they of course are excellent young players - and Maloney earned a ?1 Million move to Aston Villa but others like O'Dea, Kennedy, Sno only play ocassionally - promising midfielders Teddy Bjarnason & Ross Wallace had to move away to get a chance of regular football - Ross Wallace was sold for approx ?400K at 22 years old and Celtic then spent ?1.2M on 31 year old Paul Hartley & ?1.25 Million on 29 year old Barry Robson.....

 

Ross Wallace wasn't quite at the stage of those 'finished article' players however if they'd given him the chance to progress he might have become good enough to save them buying Hartley & Robson - certainly Wallace was good enough to play 20+ Premiership games for Sunderland this season as well as their Championship winning team last year. It's the same with Evander Sno who is stuck behind Brown, Donati, Hartley & Robson who've all been brought in ahead of him. Recently 18 year old Paul Caddis played a couple of excellent games at right back yet as soon as Hinkel & Mark Wilson are fit again he's back out the picture - not even a substitute.

 

Scotland U21 Captain & left back Scott Cuthbert & 20 year old striker Paul McGowan who play in Celtic's reserves would be great additions to Hearts squad but they don't even get a look in at Celtic - not because they lack talent but simply because Celtic are completely focused on short term goals, using mostly senior players to try to win trophies even if this means killing their own youngsters chances to play & improve - even if they've spent years developing them only to prevent them taking the final step up - not only that it is costing them a lot more financially to buy & pay senior (international) players when they could almost certainly still be successful and challenge for major honours by using more of their own players - it's just so inefficient & wasteful..........