Csaba vs Jim league results

[Sydney]

Csaba was in charge for 59 league matches.

 

He won 39% of them and lost 32% of them with an average of 1.46 pts per game.

 

We scored 1.00 goals per game and let in 1.02 goals per game.

 

On that record, in a 38 game season, we'd get 54 pts and a goal difference of -1.

 

Jim has been in charge for 22 league matches.

 

He's won 38% of them and lost 48% of them with an average of 1.27 pts per game .

 

We have scored 1.09 goals per game and let in 1.36 goals per game.

 

On that record, in a 38 game season, we'd get 47 pts and a goal difference of -10.

 

For the three home games so far this season, we have had 41209 fans (average 13,763). We've got two draws and a defeat, with 2 goals scored and 4 goals conceded. In the equivalent three home games last season, we had 42,700 fans (average of 14,233). We got one win, one draw and one defeat with 2 goals scored and 2 goals conceded.

 

 

Summary

 

We score slightly more goals (an extra goal every 10 games).

We let in more goals (an extra goal every 3 games).

We win about the same amount, but we lose much more.

Our home crowds are down by about 3%.

Our home performance is worse after three (3) games this year than last year.

 

There's a long way to go this season. So no need to panic. But there is definitely room for improvement.

[Clerry Jambo]

So just for the Shabba bashers he has a slightly better record and played to more fans.........interesting

[Guest vanbasten1874]

Should've had a poll with this thread , in one corner uber defensive csaba aware of our lack of quality so sets us up as hard to beat and gets some success out of it albeit boring the pants off the rest of us . In the other corner gung ho jim sets us up to score goals but cant stop them flying in at the back hmmmmmm its a toughie,,, can i pick neither is that an option !

[Clerry Jambo]

that just about sums it up mate

[Drylaw Hearts]

Should've had a poll with this thread , in one corner uber defensive csaba aware of our lack of quality so sets us up as hard to beat and gets some success out of it albeit boring the pants off the rest of us . In the other corner gung ho jim sets us up to score goals but cant stop them flying in at the back hmmmmmm its a toughie,,, can i pick neither is that an option !

 

Given the same player options available...........

 

Who would Csaba have played in defence on Saturday ?

[Guest vanbasten1874]

Given the same player options available...........

 

Who would Csaba have played in defence on Saturday ?

 

Bouzid Barr moriewc rubens eggert >

[Guest vanbasten1874]

Bouzid Barr moriewc rubens eggert >

 

J thomson I black temps obua calum .

[The Old Tolbooth]

Given the same player options available...........

 

Who would Csaba have played in defence on Saturday ?

Exactly what I was going to ask too, Jefferies inherited a pile of shite and he's still having to work with them, he's only made 2 or 3 of his own signings of which Barr cant be included amongst them.

 

Once Jefferies has had as many transfer windows as Csaba had, then I'll judge them closer as I feel 22 games isn't that long.

[number16]

Bouzid Barr moriewc rubens eggert >

 

He'd be as likely to have that as a forward line.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Bouzid Barr moriewc rubens eggert >

 

And that combination would have lost more than 2 goals.

[P-Dizzle]

I'm happier with the Hot & Cold stuff we're playing right now than 'Scrappy goal from a set piece then hang on for dear life at home to St. Mirren' that we had under Csaba.

[super_vlad]

6 games played this year so far. Compered to the the start of last season and this season, we have played 3 home and 3 away and are 1 point better off.

 

JJ

 

H D

A W

H D

A L

A W

H L

 

CSABA

 

A L

H L

A D

H W

A L

H W

[kingantti1874]

I was no fan of shabba ( so feckin boring ) and a big fan of jims but have to admit I'm Concerned at how it's going...

[Sydney]

I was no fan of shabba ( so feckin boring ) and a big fan of jims but have to admit I'm Concerned at how it's going...

 

Agree 100%.

[Say What Again]

Many JKB members reaction to the OP.

 

"LAA LAA LAAA I can't hear you"

 

[Pants Shaton]

The Csaba / Jenfreiays comparison isn't valid as the alignment of the planets has been completely different during the periods being compared.

[wright1989]

Many JKB members reaction to the OP.

 

"LAA LAA LAAA I can't hear you"

 

 

REP

 

Csaba has been Managing for 6 years.

 

Jefferies 27.

[Cliffundo]

Should've had a poll with this thread , in one corner uber defensive csaba aware of our lack of quality so sets us up as hard to beat and gets some success out of it albeit boring the pants off the rest of us . In the other corner gung ho jim sets us up to score goals but cant stop them flying in at the back hmmmmmm its a toughie,,, can i pick neither is that an option !

I think shabba experienced more difficult circumstances than JJ has. he had one hand tied behind his back for the whole time he was here. We never had a striker that he could work with.

 

he relied on Nade.....who he initialy thought was a fat student spectating the 1st team trianing Losing neilson, kari and bruno as well as Berra never helped either. Kingston was acting like a little toe rag aswell, so it was never a walk in the park for shabbs.

 

I like Jeffries but I never was one who wanted him back to be honest. i think he lacks what we need and thats fresh ideas and a different approach...play to your strengths is what it's about and I think shabba done that to the best of his abillity with the sqaud we had...If shabba was here now and we had elliot playing how he is and kyle up front I think we would be quite a shrewd team and very difficult to beat... I would fancy us to sneak a lot of vicotries by the odd goal. Might not be the best football but it's affective and how you should do it when you have an inferior squad or a squad with deficencies.

[kingantti1874]

I think shabba was part of the reason for eliott performing as badly-numbe of reports of bad man management with shabba... I'm still deinately happier with jj at the helm but at the end of rhe day results count and we haven't won at home this season which simply isn't good enough

[wright1989]

I think shabba was part of the reason for eliott performing as badly-numbe of reports of bad man management with shabba... I'm still deinately happier with jj at the helm but at the end of rhe day results count and we haven't won at home this season which simply isn't good enough

 

Craig Thompson had his best spell under Csaba and Wallace wasn't the player he is now.

[leginten]

I think shabba experienced more difficult circumstances than JJ has. he had one hand tied behind his back for the whole time he was here. We never had a striker that he could work with.

 

I agree with this point. I really don't see the point in people saying JJ has to work with the rubbish he was left by the previous bloke - that has been the case for everyone in charge for quite a few years now, JJ being the first manager for a while to have enjoyed a positive transfer window. He also had the luxury of half a season being written off as a bedding-in period, something his predecessor didn't have.

[The Future's Maroon]

A couple of poor results and 'some' are reaching for the eject button already?

 

What are people expecting this season, for me...third, (inc a Euro place of course) and a good run in the Scottish Cup would keep me happy. Its not exactly as if we are sitting say....4th bottom, not winning games, not scoring goals?!!

 

We do have our hands tied regarding Zal, that is Vlad's stance on the matter - not forgetting this tube asked for over ?20k a week to stay at Hearts? On that subject, Vlad should have said to him - prove between now and the end of your contract (December) your worth it, and we will discuss it then?

 

A certain Mr Mackay mentioned 'knee-jerk reaction'...he must also be a member of JKB!

 

[shaun.lawson]

Sorry, I still think it's way too early. JJ shouldn't be judged until May - hardly six games in to his first full season here. Meanwhile, Csaba had Bruno, Kari, Goncalves and Zal all making a huge difference - yet completely lost it in his second season (considerably because the first two of these had left). Who's JJ got, exactly?

 

Meanwhile, JJ's 28 points from 21 league games (sorry, I don't count the St Johnstone game, for which he hadn't prepared the team, because he'd only been here 5 seconds) is only three points below his average for his entire time here last time round. Just one more win somewhere, and he'd be matching it!

[heartsfc_fan]

 

For the three home games so far this season, we have had 41209 fans (average 13,763). We've got two draws and a defeat, with 2 goals scored and 4 goals conceded. In the equivalent three home games last season, we had 42,700 fans (average of 14,233). We got one win, one draw and one defeat with 2 goals scored and 2 goals conceded.

 

 

 

What does that have to do with anything?

 

In fact, we played Rangers in the first 3 home games last season, so it's an unfair argument considering we haven't played them yet at home.

[Tommy Wiseau]

I agree with this point. I really don't see the point in people saying JJ has to work with the rubbish he was left by the previous bloke - that has been the case for everyone in charge for quite a few years now, JJ being the first manager for a while to have enjoyed a positive transfer window. He also had the luxury of half a season being written off as a bedding-in period, something his predecessor didn't have.

 

 

That's a bit harsh. Csaba would have been given a decent crack of the whip by the fans even if he started badly - however, he did OK from the get-go though and we gave him good backing right up until he visibly chucked it right in front of our eyes.

 

Second point, more generally - it simply is taking a while to change our style between the polar opposite football philosophies of LOLzlo and JJ. We're having a stop-start beginning to the season, but we're still very much a work in progress, with our best players missing through injury (Driver, Elliott, Wallace), lack of match sharpness (Rudi) and off-field issues (Zaliukas).

 

I think things are better than they were, and I also think that Jefferies needs much more time than some appear to be willing to give him. He needs at least until the turn of the year before we start to question him, and the end of the season before serious scrutiny should be applied to his record.

 

We'll be fine this season, I reckon. People just need to accept that it's going to be up and down for a while.

 

I mean, some people thought we were going to challenge for/win the league this season. :rofl: :rofl: No wonder folk are getting grumpy with delusions like that.

[Victorian]

csaba laszlo... raving lunatic.

 

jim jefferies... isnae.

 

add that into the super-duper scientific formula of comparison.

[JamboX2]

I agree with those who say that Csaba had a hand tied behind his back and JJ needs more time this season with what I would call by and large his squad. Csaba had a good squad when he arrived, only thing lacking was a striker, he had a strong defence and a good midfield. He got us 3rd place that season and done a good job with it, using his strong back line and midfield to be the key to his success. Bruno, Driver and Miko all made up for a lack of striker that season. Csaba was let down the season after, he lost Robbie, Karipidis and Bruno, our best players by the end of that season, were gone. He brought in some replacements, but he still lacked the quality he'd lost in the Bruno type midfielder. Stewart, Black, Palazuelos and Jonsson were not that type of player, and to this day I think this is what we lack in midfield, as Stevenson is not a creative player. Yes Bouzid and Suso have proven useful for us, but I would say some of his signings have been more suspect than helpful or pointless like Balogh.

 

JJ in comparison has brought in 2 strikers, of a good standard, along with an attacking, but uncreative midfielder, in Stevenson, he's gotten Barr, but he's no centre-half, too small in my opinion. If JJ had had the players at Csaba's arrival with his strikers we'd be in a different place. But we have what we have, JJ needs to look long and hard at his squad and identify what he needs. I think we need another centre-half, someone to lead the line and a creative midfielder to be able to start controlling the middle better. I think that until January, we have to plug the holes, in the central defence and left back area, with youth. Throw a youngster into the left back slot against Rangers, Pala and Jonsson will be torn apart on the left if not, and natural left back, no matter how young may do better. I wouldn't risk a young lad at centre back as Barr has been a nightmare there but I think a young lad may not be good enough against Miller and Jelavic who are on fire, so maybe Mrowiec there for the Rangers game.

 

JJ has not been lucky with players since he arrived, neither was Csaba, but I think JJ has to go for broke, he knows he wont get anything till January. So we need to plug the gaps till then with youth, who knows a young left back like Park may prove the ideal deputy left back, who knows. But till then JJ must try youth. Csaba wasn't the best at this, but he did when he had no other choice. I reckon JJ now has no other choice and he has to act to try and mitigate the losses we have in the back.

[shaun.lawson]

That's a bit harsh. Csaba would have been given a decent crack of the whip by the fans even if he started badly - however, he did OK from the get-go though and we gave him good backing right up until he visibly chucked it right in front of our eyes.

 

Second point, more generally - it simply is taking a while to change our style between the polar opposite football philosophies of LOLzlo and JJ. We're having a stop-start beginning to the season, but we're still very much a work in progress, with our best players missing through injury (Driver, Elliott, Wallace), lack of match sharpness (Rudi) and off-field issues (Zaliukas).

 

I think things are better than they were, and I also think that Jefferies needs much more time than some appear to be willing to give him. He needs at least until the turn of the year before we start to question him, and the end of the season before serious scrutiny should be applied to his record.

 

We'll be fine this season, I reckon. People just need to accept that it's going to be up and down for a while.

 

I mean, some people thought we were going to challenge for/win the league this season. :rofl: :rofl: No wonder folk are getting grumpy with delusions like that.

 

100% agree with all of this.

[Munch]

Csaba was in charge for 59 league matches.

 

He won 39% of them and lost 32% of them with an average of 1.46 pts per game.

 

We scored 1.00 goals per game and let in 1.02 goals per game.

 

On that record, in a 38 game season, we'd get 54 pts and a goal difference of -1.

 

Jim has been in charge for 22 league matches.

 

He's won 38% of them and lost 48% of them with an average of 1.27 pts per game .

 

We have scored 1.09 goals per game and let in 1.36 goals per game.

 

On that record, in a 38 game season, we'd get 47 pts and a goal difference of -10.

 

For the three home games so far this season, we have had 41209 fans (average 13,763). We've got two draws and a defeat, with 2 goals scored and 4 goals conceded. In the equivalent three home games last season, we had 42,700 fans (average of 14,233). We got one win, one draw and one defeat with 2 goals scored and 2 goals conceded.

 

 

Summary

 

We score slightly more goals (an extra goal every 10 games).

We let in more goals (an extra goal every 3 games).

We win about the same amount, but we lose much more.

Our home crowds are down by about 3%.

Our home performance is worse after three (3) games this year than last year.

 

There's a long way to go this season. So no need to panic. But there is definitely room for improvement.

 

 

where do you get the time to work this out ? last season if you had the choice to watch A. Paint Drying B. Your Grass Growing or HMFC Playing Football option A Won every time 0.00256 per second ball in play stats and all.

 

At least JJ Gives it a go, okay we got beat on Saturday but we played 2 wingers and 2 strikers, if Lee Wallace had not been hacked whilst playing for Scotland that result would never have happened.

 

now go on and work out some other useless stat and get a life, if im not mistaken vlad has all sorts off stats on so called brilliant players, so how come we got benny useless, Kurkis ( he was a star ) sami camisola, witoven, number 26, and god knows who else.To be fair number 26 that was the JC Lookalike was not too bad,

 

now can you work out how many corners we have had per home game between JJ And Csaba, or how many shots at goal, maybee ball percentage in the other teams half between them per game ?

Why not how many BIG CUPS Each manager has won

[leginten]

That's a bit harsh. Csaba would have been given a decent crack of the whip by the fans even if he started badly - however, he did OK from the get-go though and we gave him good backing right up until he visibly chucked it right in front of our eyes.

 

Second point, more generally - it simply is taking a while to change our style between the polar opposite football philosophies of LOLzlo and JJ. We're having a stop-start beginning to the season, but we're still very much a work in progress, with our best players missing through injury (Driver, Elliott, Wallace), lack of match sharpness (Rudi) and off-field issues (Zaliukas).

 

I think things are better than they were, and I also think that Jefferies needs much more time than some appear to be willing to give him. He needs at least until the turn of the year before we start to question him, and the end of the season before serious scrutiny should be applied to his record.

 

We'll be fine this season, I reckon. People just need to accept that it's going to be up and down for a while.

 

I mean, some people thought we were going to challenge for/win the league this season. :rofl: :rofl: No wonder folk are getting grumpy with delusions like that.

 

I don't actually disagree with much of this. Not sure about Csaba doing OK from the off - I was giving it tight to him right up until Love Street and the resurrection and didn't really warm to him until everyone else started to go off him - but I think it's perfectly fair to give JJ until the end of this season before drawing conclusions. The discussion at the moment (mainly following Saturday's game) is interesting, though, and with the Vlad dimension possibly raising its head again it's almost as if we have taken a wee step back in time.

 

No more argument from me about the watchability of the football, though - it's better. I guess people are just frustrated that after all this time, it's still occasionally possible for us to look as absolutely shite as we did at the weekend.

[shaun.lawson]

Question for leginten - and a debating point for others on here. How much did Robbie Neilson have to do with Csaba Laszlo's initial success, and subsequent fall from grace?

 

Before anyone ridicules this, I suggest they look at the stats from 2008/9 - and especially when Neilson came into the side.

[leginten]

Question for leginten - and a debating point for others on here. How much did Robbie Neilson have to do with Csaba Laszlo's initial success, and subsequent fall from grace?

 

Before anyone ridicules this, I suggest they look at the stats from 2008/9 - and especially when Neilson came into the side.

 

In terms of adding quality, Aguiar was a huge plus, but we were still struggling for results even once he returned. I'd argue that Robbie added huge impetus and not a little quality - and I'd defy anyone who was at Love Street the day our season turned to say it had nothing to do with Robbie. Most of the games he played that season were good. I'd say he had a huge amount to do with our 3rd place finish that season. It's interesting that all the "we've found a right back, GIRFUY Robbie" threads from the first few games of 2009-10 have disappeared without trace. We lacked stability down that side for most of last season - in fact we leaked goals down it at times.

 

This will simply open up a particularly rancid can of worms, though.

[CavySlaveJambo]

What does that have to do with anything?

 

In fact, we played Rangers in the first 3 home games last season, so it's an unfair argument considering we haven't played them yet at home.

 

This

And you can never see the full picature from a set of statistics.

 

Plus although we were rotten on Saturday we actually looked like either taking the lead, OR more importantly, getting back into the game at 1-0 and 2-0 down by going forward and shooting off in the direction of goal.

[Sydney]

It is now time to re-scrutinise JJ's performance compared to Csaba's.

 

JJ has now been in charge for 37 league games. He's won 20 of them (54%), we score 1.38 goals per league game and we let in (on average) 1.03 goals per game. Csaba in his first 37 games won 43%, scored 1.08 per game and let in 1.00 per game. In total Csaba was in charge for 59 league games and he managed to win 39% of them.

 

In a results driven business, we now win more games and we score more goals. Yet we STILL dont get as many people through the turnstiles.

 

Unfortunately, as many posters have said before, you can't tell anything from statistics.

 

Or maybe you can (if they tell you what you want to see!).

[ToYouToMe]

Csaba was in charge for 59 league matches.

 

He won 39% of them and lost 32% of them with an average of 1.46 pts per game.

 

We scored 1.00 goals per game and let in 1.02 goals per game.

 

On that record, in a 38 game season, we'd get 54 pts and a goal difference of -1.

 

Jim has been in charge for 22 league matches.

 

He's won 38% of them and lost 48% of them with an average of 1.27 pts per game .

 

We have scored 1.09 goals per game and let in 1.36 goals per game.

 

On that record, in a 38 game season, we'd get 47 pts and a goal difference of -10.

 

For the three home games so far this season, we have had 41209 fans (average 13,763). We've got two draws and a defeat, with 2 goals scored and 4 goals conceded. In the equivalent three home games last season, we had 42,700 fans (average of 14,233). We got one win, one draw and one defeat with 2 goals scored and 2 goals conceded.

 

 

Summary

 

We score slightly more goals (an extra goal every 10 games).

We let in more goals (an extra goal every 3 games).

We win about the same amount, but we lose much more.

Our home crowds are down by about 3%.

Our home performance is worse after three (3) games this year than last year.

 

There's a long way to go this season. So no need to panic. But there is definitely room for improvement.

 

As to Jim's approach to footie, better to live as a lion than die as a pussy(cat). Crowds down to the economy, no doubts, even Celtic have suffered this dip. Home performance down to folk who over analyse football and likely pollute the atmosphere of Tynecastle with their talk of percentages and the like.

[Rudolf's Mate]

Ok stats are stats but they don't always give the true picture.

 

I thought we were the most boring team under shabby and playing that way wasn't us. To say what we are currently doing is worrying especially when a couple of our main players are on the sidelines is bizarre!

 

Again, what would people have taken at the beginning of the season? A lot of talk was about fighting for 4th and 3rd however I'd have bitten someones hand off for being so far ahead in 3rd plus within touching distance of the uglies. Ok the next couple of games could see this change however it's the gaffers fist full season in charge and we definitely are allowing him a bedding in period.

 

Whatever happens this season is a bonus but I'm also praying that this is a springboard for next and the seasons to come.

[The Mighty Thor]

Given the date of the OP i suspect he may wish to revise his own stats.

 

Bottom line is that under the hungarian gobshite the football was eye-bleedingly bad. Under JJ we actually try to play a bit of football. The reality is that at the minute we're probably punching a bit above our weight but feck it lets kick the arse out it while we are on this run

[Sydney]

Given the date of the OP i suspect he may wish to revise his own stats.

 

Bottom line is that under the hungarian gobshite the football was eye-bleedingly bad. Under JJ we actually try to play a bit of football. The reality is that at the minute we're probably punching a bit above our weight but feck it lets kick the arse out it while we are on this run

 

Agreed - I re-did the stats (about 3 posts above) and posted them here - it was to show a comparison of how much better teh team is performing now.

[Buffalo Bill]

I was big fan of Csaba in his first season and allowed the often terrible football to pass in favour of results, in the hope that he could improve on performances in his second season and kick on. It's worth mentioning that we had a lot to thank Bruno and Karipidis for that season.

 

 

But for some reson, Csaba went into a great big cream puff with everybody including half the staff and most importantly: the owner. As much as I liked him in 08/09, I went off the guy very quickly in 09/10.

 

 

Jim has taken a bit of time to get the team performing the way he wants to but for me, it's a no-brainer.

 

 

Jim has fostered a better spirit at Hearts than probably any team in Scotland. He is embedded into the club. His sides plays better, more attacking football and he gets results when required, scrapping it out if need be.

 

 

Csaba started to make demands, and began touting himself for other jobs. He allowed the dressing room cliques to continue. We were not TOGETHER.

 

 

JJ has played the Vlad game well, better than Csaba and WAY better than Burley.

 

 

JJ is relaxed, chats to Vlad and respects him as the owner. For that, Vlad respects Jim back, and let's him do his job.

[The Mighty Thor]

Agreed - I re-did the stats (about 3 posts above) and posted them here - it was to show a comparison of how much better teh team is performing now.

 

Sorry mate. God knows how i missed your update post.

 

I think the lower attendances are no reflection on the team or JJ. It's just a tough financial world out there. I suspect we'll struggle to sell as many ST's next season too, regardless of hwere we finish this year, as things are going to get worse for a lot of people.

[Darren]

I mean, some people thought we were going to challenge for/win the league this season. :rofl: :rofl: No wonder folk are getting grumpy with delusions like that.

[Tasavallan]

I think the lower attendances are no reflection on the team or JJ. It's just a tough financial world out there. I suspect we'll struggle to sell as many ST's next season too, regardless of hwere we finish this year, as things are going to get worse for a lot of people.

I am not going to waste hard earned money on an ST. I am considering just turning up at ER as I understand there will be lots and lots of cheap free seats next season.

 

 

As for statistics: I give you Nade and Crazy Legs. They will distort any stats from last season.