Paul Scholes - By Far Best European Midfielder For Past 15 Years. (Merged Threads)

[Dr Ian Malcolm]

Gerrard stands out in what is, going by their history, and extremley average Liverpool team.

 

Scholes shone in what was arguably United's best ever side.

 

Players like Gerrard and Lampard are ridiculously hyped up. I blame Sky Sports and their incessent promoting and marketing of the English League as "the best in the world."

 

As good as they are, they are at the very least matched by players like Scholes and Giggs who are in their mid thirties. It's not "sexy" however, to promote veterans as amongst the best you're league still has to offer.

[vegas-voss]

And he just keeps getting better what a goal just now

[Jambos1983]

What a goal from the wee man

[CJGJ]

In their prime, would you honestly pick Gerrard over Scholes?

 

The English love to bum up players by saying so and so is 'world class'. Scholes in his prime was the 1 English player who truely was. An excellent player.

100% YES -- You cannot believe he is better or has been than Gerrard -- I like him but Gerrard is simply a better player -- better goalscorer, better tackler, better header of a ball and as good as passer of the ball and he has someting Scholes does not have -- Heart

Gerrard could be the best right back in the world also had he been played there.

[Gavsy Van Gaverson]

100% YES -- You cannot believe he is better or has been than Gerrard -- I like him but Gerrard is simply a better player -- better goalscorer, better tackler, better header of a ball and as good as passer of the ball and he has someting Scholes does not have -- Heart

Gerrard could be the best right back in the world also had he been played there.

 

I don't know how you can say that gerrard is a better goalscorer. Gerrard's goals per games is slightly bettet but you have to bear in mind that Scholes has been playing further back in the last 4-5 years. Gerrard's level will drop over the next few seasons and Im not sure he could adapt as well ad Scholes has.

 

As for your last sentence. It is total bullshit.

[vegas-voss]

100% YES -- You cannot believe he is better or has been than Gerrard -- I like him but Gerrard is simply a better player -- better goalscorer, better tackler, better header of a ball and as good as passer of the ball and he has someting Scholes does not have -- Heart

Gerrard could be the best right back in the world also had he been played there.

 

Gerrard 366 games 80 goals

 

Scholes 646 games 150 goals

[shaun.lawson]

100% YES -- You cannot believe he is better or has been than Gerrard -- I like him but Gerrard is simply a better player -- better goalscorer, better tackler, better header of a ball and as good as passer of the ball and he has someting Scholes does not have -- Heart

Gerrard could be the best right back in the world also had he been played there.

 

Nonsense.

 

Gerrard? Fabulous player, capable of incredible things. But too often, even in central midfield, he lacks discipline; and has generally only produced his best when managers have been able to afford him a free role. I've mentioned many times before that, magnificent though his second half performance in Istanbul undoubtedly was, Liverpool went 3-0 down in the first place partly because in the first 45 minutes, Gerrard was all over the place. Then Dietmar Hamann was brought on; and his performance was extraordinary, which in turn allowed Gerrard to do what he does best.

 

But Scholes has much more positional discipline, doesn't spend his entire time playing Hollywood passes and trying to do everything by himself, and has been much more consistent for longer. As a team player, he's better than Gerrard; Gerrard leads by inspiration, whereas Scholes leads by example. And as him lacking "heart": - sorry, WTF? So because Gerrard spends 90 minutes charging around like a headless chicken, scoring occasional Roy of the Rovers goals, he has "heart" while Scholes doesn't? HTF do you think someone stays at the top in one of the world's most physically and mentally demanding leagues for 15 years under one of the world's most demanding managers, in a period in which the game has changed dramatically, and great players have come and gone, without incredible hunger, desire and hard work, or without heart?

 

Both Steven Gerrard and Paul Scholes have tremendous heart. It's just that Scholes has been the more consistent player.

[Gavsy Van Gaverson]

Gerrard 366 games 80 goals

 

Scholes 646 games 150 goals

 

Scholes is 445 games 101 goals in the league.

[CJGJ]

I don't know how you can say that gerrard is a better goalscorer. Gerrard's goals per games is slightly bettet but you have to bear in mind that Scholes has been playing further back in the last 4-5 years. Gerrard's level will drop over the next few seasons and Im not sure he could adapt as well ad Scholes has.

 

As for your last sentence. It is total bullshit.

So you admit what I said was the truth then try to justify your own arguement by trying to foretell the future -- hmmm

 

This is not an attack on Scholes who is and was a very good player but he is simply not as good as Gerrard -- that is the discussion and as to my last statement I believe that to be true and in games where he has played in that position he has shown enough for that to be a fair shout -- he has everything you need -- pace, height, heading ability, crossing ability and ball control -- he would have been world class right back just as he is a world class midfield player.

[bighusref]

Gerrard better than Scholes?

 

Oh, and Shaun, 4-4-2 for the third Manchester United game running, that manager is freaking stoopid!

[Creepy Lurker]

Great player. Not your typical British midfielder at all, one of the few from this isle in recent years to be able to stand comparison in terms of technique with the very best in the business in his position.

 

The best European midfielder for the past fifteen years, though? No.

[shaun.lawson]

Gerrard better than Scholes?

 

Oh, and Shaun, 4-4-2 for the third Manchester United game running, that manager is freaking stoopid!

 

4-4-2 in the Premier League isn't anywhere near as much of a problem as 4-4-2 in the Champions League knock-out stages or especially in international football. But even the PL will see many more sides moving to 4-2-3-1 or 4-2-1-3 this season. Good.

[vegas-voss]

Scholes is 445 games 101 goals in the league.

I just took them from wiki

 

his statsare still better though a goal every 4.40 for Scholes compared to 4.57 for Gerrard if we are just going on league games.

 

 

[Gavsy Van Gaverson]

So you admit what I said was the truth then try to justify your own arguement by trying to foretell the future -- hmmm

 

This is not an attack on Scholes who is and was a very good player but he is simply not as good as Gerrard -- that is the discussion and as to my last statement I believe that to be true and in games where he has played in that position he has shown enough for that to be a fair shout -- he has everything you need -- pace, height, heading ability, crossing ability and ball control -- he would have been world class right back just as he is a world class midfield player.

 

You know fine well that a player scores less often once they get past ther peak. Gerrard scoring ratio is only going to go one way and it isn't upwards.

 

Scholes is simply a better all round footballer.

[Gavsy Van Gaverson]

I just took them from wiki

 

his statsare still better though a goal every 4.40 for Scholes compared to 4.57 for Gerrard if we are just going on league games.

 

It must be all the Europa league goals bumping up his overall total ;-)

[vegas-voss]

Steven Gerrard also had a poor season last year i can't remember Scholes ever having a bad one.

[Frankenstein Jambo.]

In the last 20 years I can think of only 3 players that were better or as good in their prime.

 

Zidane, Gerrard and Xavi.

[Creepy Lurker]

What about Neil MacFarlane?

[Currahee!]

100% YES -- You cannot believe he is better or has been than Gerrard -- I like him but Gerrard is simply a better player -- better goalscorer, better tackler, better header of a ball and as good as passer of the ball and he has someting Scholes does not have -- Heart

Gerrard could be the best right back in the world also had he been played there.

 

Yeah Gerrard is good but just not as good as Scholes.

 

I take it you like Liverpool?

 

I don't care for either Liverpool or Man Utd so i'm unbiased. Its Scholes every time.

[Budgie.]

In the last 20 years I can think of only 3 players that were better or as good in their prime.

 

Zidane, Gerrard and Xavi.

 

Kaka, Ballack, Vieira, Pirlo at their peak were as good as Gerrard and Scholesbut Zidane was a level above all others imo

[Gavsy Van Gaverson]

Kaka, Ballack, Vieira, Pirlo at their peak were as good as Gerrard and Scholesbut Zidane was a level above all others imo

 

Totally agree about Zidane. Zidane is one of the true greats of his era - Both him and Ronaldo are in the all time great lists.

[Budgie.]

Totally agree about Zidane. Zidane is one of the true greats of his era - Both him and Ronaldo are in the all time great lists.

 

Which ronaldo?

[vegas-voss]

Kaka, Ballack, Vieira, Pirlo at their peak were as good as Gerrard and Scholesbut Zidane was a level above all others imo

 

none of them could sustain it over 15 years though.Although i think the demise of Kaka is exaggerated and Zidane was on a different planet from others.Also if we are going back 20 years what about Gullit when at Milan.

[Gavsy Van Gaverson]

Which ronaldo?

 

The 3 time world player of the year and world cup top goalscorer.

 

Who is the other ronaldo you speak of?

[Dr Ian Malcolm]

The 3 time world player of the year and world cup top goalscorer.

 

Who is the other ronaldo you speak of?

 

The Real Ronaldo >>>>> Cristiano Ronaldo.

 

At his best he was simply phenomenal. Pace, power, skill, goals. He had everything. Shame his knee got destroyed.

[zizou]

Zizou his biggest fan - My link

 

"He scores goals galore, he scores goals"

 

 

Absolute legend.

Hi, I forgot to add he could be a cheating wee to$$er at times but overall great player....

[Rivlin]

Scholes was easily as good as Xavi and Iniesta in his prime the main difference he scored a hell of a lot more goals than them while still dictated a game.

 

Bollix!! Scholes has never been in the same class as Xavi or Iniesta let alone Zidane, Pirlo, Schneider, etc. Excellent player but a nasty wee thug too.

[Bert Le Clos]

You know fine well that a player scores less often once they get past ther peak. Gerrard scoring ratio is only going to go one way and it isn't upwards.

 

Scholes is simply a better all round footballer.

 

Gerrard's goal ratio is bumped up due to him taking penalties as well. Shaun Lawson's post is spot on.

 

Gerrard couldn't lace Paul Scholes' boots.

[Budgie.]

Bollix!! Scholes has never been in the same class as Xavi or Iniesta let alone Zidane, Pirlo, Schneider, etc. Excellent player but a nasty wee thug too.

 

Worst. Post. Ever.

[Tommy Wiseau]

Wait a minute... has someone just tried to claim that Wesley Sneijder and Andrea Pirlo are in a different class from Paul Scholes at his peak?

 

Sorry, but :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Bollix!! Scholes has never been in the same class as Xavi or Iniesta let alone Zidane, Pirlo, Schneider, etc. Excellent player but a nasty wee thug too.

 

How can you say he's not in the same class as these players? He's absolutely in the same fecking class. Whether he's marginally better or marginally worse is a matter of opinion, but you make it sound like we're talking about Nicky Butt.

[boabyarsebiscuit]

If only Fabio Capello had called Paul Scholes up personally England would have won the World Cup.

 

(For those of you wondering about the real reason for the current English sports press "love-in" with Mr Scholes)

 

 

[Rivlin]

If only Fabio Capello had called Paul Scholes up personally England would have won the World Cup.

 

(For those of you wondering about the real reason for the current English sports press "love-in" with Mr Scholes)

 

That's about it!!

[Eckauskas]

didn't he stay in north berwick as a kid?

 

Pretty sure that's rubbish.

 

He was born and raised in Oldham.

 

iam sorry but that's laughable jamie, couldn't get anywhere near xavi or iniesta in the 2009 champions league final plus they also both have european championship and world cup winners medals. Even in his prime he was barely the best player in england nevermind all of europe.

 

Right, a player in the twilight of his career played pretty poorly against the best centre midfield partnership in the world at the moment in one match. I sincerely hope that reading that statement again will make you realise how utterly ridiculous a claim that is.

 

Not nearly as good as Steven Gerrard -- a man who can pick a team up and carry it - streets ahead of Scholes

 

 

Another of Kickback's clueless.

 

Steven Gerrard wishes he could have the kind of career Scholesy's had.

 

Bollix!! Scholes has never been in the same class as Xavi or Iniesta let alone Zidane, Pirlo, Schneider, etc. Excellent player but a nasty wee thug too.

 

The only thing Paul Scholes was ever missing as a footballer was an ability to tackle, something that was never really his job.

 

What I'd like you to explain for me is what quantifies a 'thug' here.

[Peebo]

The only thing Paul Scholes was ever missing as a footballer was an ability to tackle, something that was never really his job.

 

Whether or not a central midfielders job includes tackling is probably a moot point, and clearly Scholes' inability to do so has clearly never bothered Ferguson. However, it is, in my opinion, still a big flaw in his game...as bothered as Scholes, Ferguson or any of the Man Unitedphiles will be about my opinion.

 

He clearly has been a brilliant player throughout his career, and continues to produce the goods. However, the media/interweb dwellers' love-in with him right now is cringeworthy. You say the claim that "even in his prime he was barely the best player in england nevermind all of europe" is ridiculous. The fact he has never won any Player of the Year awards throughout his career, and only three player of the month awards would suggest that others may share this opinion. And some may dismiss it as irrelevant, but he has never really consistently hit the heights at international level.

 

Just give him the award for this season now, though - what better way to get it right up Fabio and his poor interpersonal skills, right?

[Eckauskas]

Whether or not a central midfielders job includes tackling is probably a moot point, and clearly Scholes' inability to do so has clearly never bothered Ferguson. However, it is, in my opinion, still a big flaw in his game...as bothered as Scholes, Ferguson or any of the Man Unitedphiles will be about my opinion.

 

He clearly has been a brilliant player throughout his career, and continues to produce the goods. However, the media/interweb dwellers' love-in with him right now is cringeworthy. You say the claim that "even in his prime he was barely the best player in england nevermind all of europe" is ridiculous. The fact he has never won any Player of the Year awards throughout his career, and only three player of the month awards would suggest that others may share this opinion. And some may dismiss it as irrelevant, but he has never really consistently hit the heights at international level.

 

Just give him the award for this season now, though - what better way to get it right up Fabio and his poor interpersonal skills, right?

 

That might have more to do with the players around him than his sheer ability. How many great club players have you seen fail to set the heather alight when playing for their country?

 

However you look at it, Scholesy has been at the very top of the game for over 15 years. You don't do that without being a very exceptional player.

[Peebo]

That might have more to do with the players around him than his sheer ability. How many great club players have you seen fail to set the heather alight when playing for their country?

 

Quite a few, of that there is no doubt.

 

I have also seen a few great players leading fairly average international teams to great heights, eg Zidane, Maradona and even Pirlo...

[Eckauskas]

Quite a few, of that there is no doubt.

 

I have also seen a few great players leading fairly average international teams to great heights, eg Zidane, Maradona and even Pirlo...

 

Maradona is hard to argue with, as he was slightly before my time.

 

However, the French WC squad in 1998 was a very talented squad with players like Viera, Blanc, Barthez and Lizarazu, they were by no means mugs. Italy in 2006 also had a good core of players like Del Piero, Buffon and Cannavaro. Much better players than Paul Ince, David Batty and Sol Campbell.

[Peebo]

Maradona is hard to argue with, as he was slightly before my time.

 

However, the French WC squad in 1998 was a very talented squad with players like Viera, Blanc, Barthez and Lizarazu, they were by no means mugs. Italy in 2006 also had a good core of players like Del Piero, Buffon and Cannavaro. Much better players than Paul Ince, David Batty and Sol Campbell.

 

I wasn't actually refering to France's 1998 squad, which was filled with quality, rather the lesser 2006 version. As for Italy's 2006 squad, yes, some good players no doubt, but probably the poorest World Cup winning side of my time.

 

As for Scholes, on many occasions he ended up playing out of position (left wing, for example) for England, which would suggest others didn't consider him England's best central midfielder for long periods of time. Which is the point I am making. A great player for a long period of time, no doubt about that.

 

"By far the best European midfielder for the past 15 years" as per the title of this thread? Do me a favour...

[shaun.lawson]

I wasn't actually refering to France's 1998 squad, which was filled with quality, rather the lesser 2006 version. As for Italy's 2006 squad, yes, some good players no doubt, but probably the poorest World Cup winning side of my time.

 

As for Scholes, on many occasions he ended up playing out of position (left wing, for example) for England, which would suggest others didn't consider him England's best central midfielder for long periods of time. Which is the point I am making. A great player for a long period of time, no doubt about that.

 

"By far the best European midfielder for the past 15 years" as per the title of this thread? Do me a favour...

 

The problem with a debate on "the best European midfielder of the past 15 years" is it's unclear exactly what it means. Is it referring only to players who've been at the top for the whole of the last fifteen years, for example? In that case, it probably is Scholes. But if we're looking at all European midfielders who've played during that period, Zidane is out on his own in front, and Scholes in a group after that, alongside players like Pirlo, Nedved, Zola (if we include him as an attacking midfielder, rather than a forward), Makelele, Gattuso, Vieira, Seedorf, Davids, Sneijder, Xavi, Iniesta (both better than Scholes IMO) and Gerrard.

 

Eck is correct about the French and Italian World Cup winning squads though, and I'm baffled by your take on the latter. Buffon, Nesta, Cannavaro, Pirlo, Gattuso, Del Piero, Totti... and Zambrotta, Materazzi, De Rossi, Toni and Inzaghi on top of that? What more do you want?

 

Scholes, meanwhile, was routinely wasted as part of England's obsession with 4-4-2. The only England coach who understood how to utilise him properly was Glenn Hoddle, who sometimes played him as a deep lying striker, and realised he could prosper in what we might call the "Gazza role". That Eriksson went on to put him on the left wing defied belief. Even Sven realised this in the end, meaning he wanted to pick a diamond formation at Euro 2004 - but Beckham, Gerrard and Lampard, selfish tossers to a man, vetoed it. Scholes retired from international football immediately afterwards, and I don't blame him at all.

 

One other thing. Even Alex Ferguson messed Scholes around at one point: he had a huge problem shoehorning both him and Veron into his side. Man Utd were nowhere near the force we'd come to expect in Europe while Fergie persisted with Veron; yet when he'd gone, and Scholes was allowed to do his thing again, United surged back to the top.

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

The problem with a debate on "the best European midfielder of the past 15 years" is it's unclear exactly what it means. Is it referring only to players who've been at the top for the whole of the last fifteen years, for example? In that case, it probably is Scholes. But if we're looking at all European midfielders who've played during that period, Zidane is out on his own in front, and Scholes in a group after that, alongside players like Pirlo, Nedved, Zola (if we include him as an attacking midfielder, rather than a forward), Makelele, Gattuso, Vieira, Seedorf, Davids, Sneijder, Xavi, Iniesta (both better than Scholes IMO) and Gerrard.

 

Eck is correct about the French and Italian World Cup winning squads though, and I'm baffled by your take on the latter. Buffon, Nesta, Cannavaro, Pirlo, Gattuso, Del Piero, Totti... and Zambrotta, Materazzi, De Rossi, Toni and Inzaghi on top of that? What more do you want?

 

Scholes, meanwhile, was routinely wasted as part of England's obsession with 4-4-2. The only England coach who understood how to utilise him properly was Glenn Hoddle, who sometimes played him as a deep lying striker, and realised he could prosper in what we might call the "Gazza role". That Eriksson went on to put him on the left wing defied belief. Even Sven realised this in the end, meaning he wanted to pick a diamond formation at Euro 2004 - but Beckham, Gerrard and Lampard, selfish tossers to a man, vetoed it. Scholes retired from international football immediately afterwards, and I don't blame him at all.

 

One other thing. Even Alex Ferguson messed Scholes around at one point: he had a huge problem shoehorning both him and Veron into his side. Man Utd were nowhere near the force we'd come to expect in Europe while Fergie persisted with Veron; yet when he'd gone, and Scholes was allowed to do his thing again, United surged back to the top.

 

 

You have missed out Mickey Stewart from your list Shaun.

[Peebo]

Eck is correct about the French and Italian World Cup winning squads though, and I'm baffled by your take on the latter. Buffon, Nesta, Cannavaro, Pirlo, Gattuso, Del Piero, Totti... and Zambrotta, Materazzi, De Rossi, Toni and Inzaghi on top of that? What more do you want?

 

As I said, I wasn't refering to the France side that he mentions, and for Italy, yes, their 2006 squad had some great players in it, but I didn't think their starting XIs or performances were particularly impressive throughout the tournament. I thought that Pirlo was one of two exceptions (along with Cannavaro), and made the difference at a number of stages throughout the tournament.

 

And as I also said, that's just my opinion, and I'm sure more learned football scholars may disagree.

[shaun.lawson]

As I said, I wasn't refering to the France side that he mentions, and for Italy, yes, their 2006 squad had some great players in it, but I didn't think their starting XIs or performances were particularly impressive throughout the tournament. I thought that Pirlo was one of two exceptions (along with Cannavaro), and made the difference at a number of stages throughout the tournament.

 

And as I also said, that's just my opinion, and I'm sure more learned football scholars may disagree.

 

You know Peebo, it seems you can take the Scot out of Scotland - but you can't take the sarcasm out of the Scot.

[Peebo]

You know Peebo, it seems you can take the Scot out of Scotland - but you can't take the sarcasm out of the Scot.

 

Right...

[JamboRossi79]

at this thread

 

If he was that good you think he might have won this award just once, c'mon people get serious.

 

http://en.wikipedia....Best_Midfielder

 

 

 

1997?98 Zinedine Zidane Juventus

1998?99 David Beckham Manchester United

1999?00 Gaizka Mendieta Valencia

2000?01 Gaizka Mendieta Valencia

2001?02 Michael Ballack Bayer Leverkusen

2002?03 Pavel Nedv?d Juventus

2003?04 Deco Porto

2004?05 Kak? Milan

2005?06 Deco Barcelona

2006?07 Clarence Seedorf Milan

2007?08 Frank Lampard Chelsea

2008?09 Cesc F?bregas Arsenal

[Budgie.]

It's a pity Gerrard isn't playing tonight against Man City. Was looking forward to watching him closely.

 

Wait...what's that you say...he IS playing! Oh dear!

[Tommy Wiseau]

at this thread

 

If he was that good you think he might have won this award just once, c'mon people get serious.

 

http://en.wikipedia....Best_Midfielder

 

 

 

1997?98 Zinedine Zidane Juventus

1998?99 David Beckham Manchester United

1999?00 Gaizka Mendieta Valencia

2000?01 Gaizka Mendieta Valencia

2001?02 Michael Ballack Bayer Leverkusen

2002?03 Pavel Nedv?d Juventus

2003?04 Deco Porto

2004?05 Kak? Milan

2005?06 Deco Barcelona

2006?07 Clarence Seedorf Milan

2007?08 Frank Lampard Chelsea

2008?09 Cesc F?bregas Arsenal

 

 

If you're suggesting that more than one of the above has been better than Paul Scholes throughout their career, it's you who needs to get serious.

 

EDIT: Some of them have had great careers, by the way, no arguments there.