"we're Gunning For Third!"

[JewelsOfTheRomanovs]

I hate lack of ambition shown by Hearts team and management. The we are aiming for 3rd place mentality is in my opinion very wrong and the mind set of players and management going into any match let alone old firm matches cant be right. The above quote from Bouzid is highlighted on our web site as if this is something to be proud of. I also hate the word realistic!

Just wanted to get this off my chest.

[kingantti1874]

I agree-pish patter.. Ftof

[jamboglenn]

If teams dont believe they can split the old firm, it's never gonna happen.

[Frankenstein Jambo.]

Long gone are the days of ambition unfortunatly.

[Robbo-Jambo]

Bouzid does say later on in the interview maybe 1st He didnt sound too convinced though

[IMA MAROON]

If you believe you are a great player you don't then become one.

[Mouse]

we have a limited squad with few match winners, we know this and they themselves will know this, 3rd would be a very good achievement for this group of players.

 

of course we should be aiming to win the league each year, but maybe JJ is aiming for this over the next few seasons, building something for the future.

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

Every player and manager is in the game to win They just have to release this to the media so not to be shot down and be made a bigger scalp Nothing better for opposition teams to pin up boasting news-stories pre-match , no team talk necessary No good setting yourself up for a fall .We want to surprise the west coast mafia and luer them into a false sense of security Mind you we could still do with a creative in the hole player who will make late runs into the box and grab goals So 3rd is being realistic

[Fozzyonthefence]

Yeah & Elgin should be aiming to win the Scottish Cup - as much chance of that as us winning the league.

[Sir Digby Chicken Caesar]

Given some of the dross that's still here, After the past season, I think 3rd is ambitious.

 

OP, Do you seriously believe we have the squad to win this league this year?

 

This is JJ's first full season since he came back, Please let him build a ******* foundation with his own team before you critisize his 'lack of ambition'.

[Tommy Wiseau]

If you believe you are a great player you don't then become one.

 

 

A philosophy that Diego Maradona would have something to say on, no doubt.

[Debut 4]

Aim for the top and see what happens. If you push yourself week to week individually and as a team but fall short, then at least you have tried and found your level.

 

Nothing worse than regrets or players not fulfilling their potential just because they don`t believe they can be the best.

[Victor Meldrew]

You have to realise that there is probably a difference between how the team approach games and what they will say in public.

 

Can you imagine if Bouzid had said we are aiming to win the league? It would have been ridiculed and would have heaped pressure on the team. There would simply be no point. By saying we're aiming for third all that is being said is that outside the Old Firm every team is of a pretty similar level (which is true).

 

However, I would have thought that in the dressing room, they will believe that they can probably win each game as it comes, and certainly won't ease of if they are in third with an opportunity to push for second or first.

 

Now, remind me, what did Burley say our aim was for 05/06?

[Ray Winstone]

Third place was always going to be the aim.

 

And at the moment that might be beyond us.

[Debut 4]

You have to realise that there is probably a difference between how the team approach games and what they will say in public.

 

Can you imagine if Bouzid had said we are aiming to win the league? It would have been ridiculed and would have heaped pressure on the team. There would simply be no point. By saying we're aiming for third all that is being said is that outside the Old Firm every team is of a pretty similar level (which is true).

 

However, I would have thought that in the dressing room, they will believe that they can probably win each game as it comes, and certainly won't ease of if they are in third with an opportunity to push for second or first.

 

Now, remind me, what did Burley say our aim was for 05/06?

agree, there are two worlds...the media world and the dressing room. You don`t want to set yourself up for a big fall and come out with over confident views. A calculated response or outlook is best in the public eye.

 

But in the changing room they should be bursting at the seams and encouraging each other every minute of the day.

[IMA MAROON]

Every player at every club wants to win every game he plays in. Most have not got a hope.

 

I believe I am great so I must be great

I believe I am great so I must be great

[JewelsOfTheRomanovs]

Yeah & Elgin should be aiming to win the Scottish Cup - as much chance of that as us winning the league.

 

 

I'm also not suggesting that Hearts should say they will win the English Premier League.

[Craig Herbertson]

I want us to win the league and keep on winning it. Do it once and we have a chance of breaking the mind set that says we can't. Several million in the bank and a miracle would be a handy start.

[Debut 4]

Every player at every club wants to win every game he plays in. Most have not got a hope.

 

I believe I am great so I must be great

I believe I am great so I must be great

You don`t get it do you IMA? And the way you end your first line proves it.

 

Whether you are the shittest player going or the best you must show the correct desire as a basic. Some players with average ability can contribute because of their application while some fancy dans with all the skill in the world can`t bother their arse to work for the team.

 

Belief goes a long way in a talented squad but only a short way in a less one. Hearts have some decent talent and with the right mindset can have a good season and will beat most sides if this is so.

[Tommy Wiseau]

agree, there are two worlds...the media world and the dressing room. You don`t want to set yourself up for a big fall and come out with over confident views. A calculated response or outlook is best in the public eye.

 

But in the changing room they should be bursting at the seams and encouraging each other every minute of the day.

 

 

They will be, have no doubts about that - you make a very good point. Victor is right to bring up Burley's patter in 05/06 as an example; another would be Martin O'Neill's first season in charge. He consistently said, "Rangers are the benchmark" and made out his aim for the season was second - it later turned out that he'd gone round the changing room before the season started and looked in every player's eyes asking them in turn if they believed they'd win the league. Anyone who didn't convince him would be emptied.

[davemclaren]

I'm happy with the ambition of third given wehere we are currently at. Once we get there than we can revise our aims for this and the next season....

[shaun.lawson]

They will be, have no doubts about that - you make a very good point. Victor is right to bring up Burley's patter in 05/06 as an example; another would be Martin O'Neill's first season in charge. He consistently said, "Rangers are the benchmark" and made out his aim for the season was second - it later turned out that he'd gone round the changing room before the season started and looked in every player's eyes asking them in turn if they believed they'd win the league. Anyone who didn't convince him would be emptied.

 

Yep, I was just about to mention that too. If O'Neill had publicly stated that a side which had finished 21 points behind Rangers, seemed to be miles and miles behind off the pitch and had world beaters like Rafael Scheidt, Olivier Tebily and Bobby Petta on it, would immediately win the league, he'd have been ridiculed. Back then, Rangers' advantage was so huge that they seemed on the point of having one squad for the SPL, another for the CL!

 

But his impact was completely on the mental side of things. That he believed he could turn things around so quickly was remarkable enough; that his players, many of them limited, bought into it too even more so. Up to a certain truly elite level, football is almost completely about confidence and attitude, and limited players can end up achieving amazing things under very good or great managers. Quite often, their level "regresses to the mean" afterwards, leaving fans accusing them of not working as hard or whatever; but especially over a short term period, it's amazing what a difference real belief can make.

[Debut 4]

I'm happy with the ambition of third given wehere we are currently at. Once we get there than we can revise our aims for this and the next season....

Thing is DM i have never believed clubs like Hearts can ever plan for long term at first team level. You have a good season and you lose some of your best players and its back to the drawing board.

 

Point is, be the best you can be. I don`t think 1998 or 2006 were part of some great master plan or the icing on the cake after 3 or 4 years of building, neither am i saying we were lucky, but we had assembled some good players in a very short time,had a good management team and knocked it off.

 

At max we may get two seasons to fine tune the side but alot of work is done every pre season now with the way the transfer market is and how clubs like Hearts can`t knock back good money, whereas they may have done years ago. I think JJ has done well this pre season to boost the frontline and the squad all of a sudden looks better imo....so lets get in about the rest of the league.

 

We also have a better mindset than last season.

[CJGJ]

Thing is DM i have never believed clubs like Hearts can ever plan for long term at first team level. You have a good season and you lose some of your best players and its back to the drawing board.

 

Point is, be the best you can be. I don`t think 1998 or 2006 were part of some great master plan or the icing on the cake after 3 or 4 years of building, neither am i saying we were lucky, but we had assembled some good players in a very short time,had a good management team and knocked it off.

 

At max we may get two seasons to fine tune the side but alot of work is done every pre season now with the way the transfer market is and how clubs like Hearts can`t knock back good money, whereas they may have done years ago. I think JJ has done well this pre season to boost the frontline and the squad all of a sudden looks better imo....so lets get in about the rest of the league.

 

We also have a better mindset than last season.

Spot on these days -- however we should always aim for first and if not second and if not third etc.....-- realism should have no place in the mind of a football fan

[BobbyJenkins]

Realistic team tis all

[winston churchill]

Bouzid does say later on in the interview maybe 1st He didnt sound too convinced though

 

does he also mention the teams he knocked back to stay with us

[Commander Harris]

it is a reasonable, realistic goal. ?No problems with that at all. ?I'm sure Bouzid would love us to finish 1st but there's no point getting ahead of ourselves.?

 

Let's take an extreme, let's say bouzid said "we're gunning to win the Champion's league in the next 5 years" - would we praise him for his ambition or call him a lunatic?

 

"ambition" is of no value whatsoever if it's not a realistic attainable target. ?Simple truth is that we are not in a position to win the league this year. ?

 

 

[wibble]

Only a ###### would say we were gunning to win the league and only a ###### would expect it.

[Guest jambomickey]

I hate lack of ambition shown by Hearts team and management. The we are aiming for 3rd place mentality is in my opinion very wrong and the mind set of players and management going into any match let alone old firm matches cant be right. The above quote from Bouzid is highlighted on our web site as if this is something to be proud of. I also hate the word realistic!

Just wanted to get this off my chest.

just being realistic.

[Buffalo Bill]

I wouldn't allow any talk of 'we want to be the third best team in the league'.

 

 

I wouldn't be too unhappy if we finished third this season but I cartainly wouldn't make it my aim.

 

 

'First' should be the aim.

 

 

Re this thread: it's ok to have the 'what ought to be' viewpoint, as well as understanding the 'what is'(the reality of the situation).

[moonraker]

Teams who achieve anything generally have philosophy of "Take one game at a time" if you keep winning those games you can revise your expectations up.

[Frankenstein Jambo.]

It just shows how much Phychological harm the old firm have inflicted on our league. This fear factor of playing them makes them almost guarenteed to finish 1st and 2nd and it gets on my tits how team can't seem to break this phychological barrior.

 

If any team is to break the old firm, they need to get past the fear factor, the cheating SFA, they need to invest and risk bankrupcy, they need to somehow win games while the ref is giving the old firm everything, they need to get past the media and somehow ignore it, they need to beat the hype surrounding the challenge.

 

All those factors and many, many more make it almost impossible to break the old firm. It is sad that in a professional league we have no hope of seeing our team win the league but it is the way it is. Even though Rangers are skint they were able to sign a quality player like beattie for 1m, 250k more than our ******* record signing!

 

I am pissed off to the ******* bone of our pishy little league. I want to see my team challenge for the league. I want to be enthralled like in 2005 in a battle to the wire. I want my team in the champions league but because of this sick stangle hold they have over the league it aint going to happen.

[Victorian]

the only stock phrase i detest when it comes to this sort of thing is when people continually troop out "split the OF", or variations of it. as if it's the ultimate goal to attain. in this league if you're good enough to split them then you're good enough to go all the way and win the league... which nobody is by the way.

 

i really don't know why people get upset by our players saying they're aiming for third because it's really the only credible target right now. it might be better if they were careful to say that we are aiming to finish as high as we possibly can (which would be 3rd). perhaps then some people wouldn't get leeds united about it.

 

i reckon we'll be doing very well to finish 3rd. a top 5 place looks likely but 3rd/4th could be pushing it a bit.

[Dr. Bapswent]

Id prefer it if those representing the club talked about winning the Champions league in 5 years, signing world cup stars etc.

 

You know, really aiming for the top.

 

Because then they would be delivering what the fans wanted and would not get slated for it at all.

[Frankenstein Jambo.]

Id prefer it if those representing the club talked about winning the Champions league in 5 years, signing world cup stars etc.

 

You know, really aiming for the top.

 

Because then they would be delivering what the fans wanted and would not get slated for it at all.

I think you know you are talking complete and utter pesh.

 

No one is saying aim for the champions league but people are saying we should be aiming to win the league which is probably what a club of size should be aiming for.

[redm]

If he had simply said, "we're aiming to finish as high as possible" there's a fair chance he would have been criticised for not having the conviction to say what he genuinely thinks we're capable of doing this season. As it is, he's gone for the realistic approach and I'm fine with that...especially when football supporters have a tendency to cling to every uttered hope as if it was a promise of some description.

 

Yes I'd like us to be world beaters but fact is we're not and I'll be happy and reassured that things are settling down and heading in the right direction if we can grab 3rd and some Europa action. If we do better than that I'll be suitably surprised and absolutely bloody delighted.

 

I'd like the team to be strong, organised and ruthlessly efficient, not distracted by the collapse of false hope. The ups and downs of life as an airy fairy dreamer is a lifestyle better suited to a fan than a player imo.

[Victorian]

If he had simply said, "we're aiming to finish as high as possible" there's a fair chance he would have been criticised for not having the conviction to say what he genuinely thinks we're capable of doing this season. As it is, he's gone for the realistic approach and I'm fine with that...especially when football supporters have a tendency to cling to every uttered hope as if it was a promise of some description.

 

Yes I'd like us to be world beaters but fact is we're not and I'll be happy and reassured that things are settling down and heading in the right direction if we can grab 3rd and some Europa action. If we do better than that I'll be suitably surprised and absolutely bloody delighted.

 

I'd like the team to be strong, organised and ruthlessly efficient, not distracted by the collapse of false hope. The ups and downs of life as an airy fairy dreamer is a lifestyle better suited to a fan than a player imo.

i think what you're saying is that it really doesn't matter what any player, manager or owner says or does... there will be growling in some quarters regardless.

 

if so... and in the context of kickback... you couldn't be more correct.

[IMA MAROON]

I think you know you are talking complete and utter pesh.

 

No one is saying aim for the champions league but people are saying we should be aiming to win the league which is probably what a club of size should be aiming for.

if we had the players that could compete for the title.

[Frankenstein Jambo.]

if we had the players that could compete for the title.

EMMMMMM and who says we don't?

 

Driver, wallace, eggy would all walk into celtic and rangers squad with Kyle, Elliott, thomson C all easily around about the first team.

[Debut 4]

I think you know you are talking complete and utter pesh.

 

No one is saying aim for the champions league but people are saying we should be aiming to win the league which is probably what a club of size should be aiming for.

agree and also with your earlier post. You`re right about all the hurdles that we have to overcome about the Old Squirm and unfortunately it seems its had the desired effect on a certain amount of our fans.

 

I look around europe for inspiration and in recent seasons many teams have broken the stranglehold or monopoly of the clubs in that country who normally win the big prize. Wolfsburg 2 seasons ago in Germany, FC Twente in Holland.

 

I know that every country has their own situation regarding finance, standard of play etc..but im more touching on the mentality and how those clubs above became single minded and had the desire to win. They rose above it and believed they could break the usual suspects grip on the title.

[redm]

EMMMMMM and who says we don't?

 

Driver, wallace, eggy would all walk into celtic and rangers squad with Kyle, Elliott, thomson C all easily around about the first team.

 

And how many of theirs would walk into our first team?

[jambonian]

I hate lack of ambition shown by Hearts team and management. The we are aiming for 3rd place mentality is in my opinion very wrong and the mind set of players and management going into any match let alone old firm matches cant be right. The above quote from Bouzid is highlighted on our web site as if this is something to be proud of. I also hate the word realistic!

Just wanted to get this off my chest.

Hearts have had better squads in the past compared to now and only split the old firm twice. Both times when we won the Scottish Cup. We had quality players both in 98 and 06 with the likes of Cameron, Adam, McCann and Hartley, Skacel, Bednar. Nowadays we have little attacking options, most of them are forever injured, the likes of Driver for example. We also had solid defences in those eras, Weir, Ritchie, McPherson, Naysmith/Pointon and Fyssas, Pressley, Webster, even Neilson! and two good keepers in Rousett and Gordon.

Finishing 3rd would be pretty good considering we have no left-sided defender or attacking midfielder. The attacking options are still up for debate at the moment. We couldn't even beat St Johnstone at home so there's an awful lot to be done yet for us even to consider finishing in 3rd.

[Tommy Wiseau]

Do Aston Villa players come out and tell the media that they're going to win the league, by the way? Do their fans slate them for it as well?

 

Just wondering, likes.

[IMA MAROON]

EMMMMMM and who says we don't?

 

Driver, wallace, eggy would all walk into celtic and rangers squad with Kyle, Elliott, thomson C all easily around about the first team.

 

I'll give you Driver and Wallace. They have the ability to perform at a higher level.

 

They don't have to kid themselves on that they are great to play good football. They are good footballers.

 

 

If anyone seriously thinks that positive thinking makes you a good player then try it at home, give Hearts a shout when you think you are ready.

[thirdyboy1976]

I hate lack of ambition shown by Hearts team and management. The we are aiming for 3rd place mentality is in my opinion very wrong and the mind set of players and management going into any match let alone old firm matches cant be right. The above quote from Bouzid is highlighted on our web site as if this is something to be proud of. I also hate the word realistic!

Just wanted to get this off my chest.

 

 

So, let me get this right. By the time May 2011 comes round & we finish third, we can all expect you to be giving it, "well thats just not acceptable, I'm giving up my season ticket & never going back. Third is a disgrace to a club the size of Hearts"?????? The fact of the matter is really very simple...our squad isn't good enough to win the league or split the o.f. We carry a lot of debt & continue to service the bank. We can't afford to bring in the players needed to give Celtic & Rangers a 'Realistic' challenge. Rangers won the league last year with an awful team...Dundee Utd came third, 18pts behind Celtic. Celtic have just spent ?9mil on players....Rangers who are proper struggling have just brought in Beattie for ?1.2mil. How can we keep up with that? Yes I agree in some part that players maybe shouldn't say publicly what we not good enought to achieve....but come on we're not Barcelona

[The Comedian]

I hate lack of ambition shown by Hearts team and management. The we are aiming for 3rd place mentality is in my opinion very wrong and the mind set of players and management going into any match let alone old firm matches cant be right.

 

I know what you mean. As much as it's a realistic aim, it's still a dismal thought. Third. Wow. We bust a gut all season aiming for third place. It's just a little sad to me that we're not aiming to be the best. I know it's realistic but come on, in any other sport who aims to be third at something?

 

Having given it some thought, is it such a mammoth task to actually win the league? I'd argue you don't need a side to compete with the OF in the truest sense, more being capapble of beating the rest of the league. You get the same number of points for beating Hamilton as you do gubbing Rangers at Ibrox.

 

Looking at the 98 side, we finished 7 points behind Celtic and 5 behind Rangers. We never beat them all season however we dealt with the rest on a consistent basis. Not far off it, a few more results against the OF or results in our favour would see us there. The OF are certainly getting beat on a more regular basis.

 

Hopefully one day.

 

Edit: The above is on the assumption we won't spend loads of cash like in 06 in an attempt to blow the league away.

[audrey65]

If teams dont believe they can split the old firm, it's never gonna happen.

 

I start every season not thinking about "splitting" the old firm, but finishing above both of them. In fact, at the moment, the Treble's still on!!!

[Debut 4]

I know what you mean. As much as it's a realistic aim, it's still a dismal thought. Third. Wow. We bust a gut all season aiming for third place. It's just a little sad to me that we're not aiming to be the best. I know it's realistic but come on, in any other sport who aims to be third at something?

 

Having given it some thought, is it such a mammoth task to actually win the league? I'd argue you don't need a side to compete with the OF in the truest sense, more being capapble of beating the rest of the league. You get the same number of points for beating Hamilton as you do gubbing Rangers at Ibrox.

 

Looking at the 98 side, we finished 7 points behind Celtic and 5 behind Rangers. We never beat them all season however we dealt with the rest on a consistent basis. Not far off it, a few more results against the OF or results in our favour would see us there. The OF are certainly getting beat on a more regular basis.

 

Hopefully one day.

 

Edit: The above is on the assumption we won't spend loads of cash like in 06 in an attempt to blow the league away.

well said. Most point to the 2005-06 side in which we spent alot on but how much did we spend on assembling the 98 side?

 

Most of the 98 side were homebred too(with homebred buys aswell) and while the current side may not be as good, id say the OF aren`t as good now as they were then either.

 

I know it takes a few elements to make it all work and the great thing for a manger must be trying to piece together a good functioning side, but a huge part is having the right attitude from day 1.

 

This is sport, you compete to be the best. You ignore how good your opponent is in a way you don`t let it affect you. As i said before, give your all and if you fall short at least you`ve tried. It`d be nice if more of our fans thought the same and expressed this attitude. Players live amongst us, they read and hear what we say.

 

Everything counts, just like the support in the stadium. I know you have to consider the squad quality but i see alot of good in there to be nurtured.

 

If people can`t see that or buy into it i really don`t think they`ve ever been in a competitive situation in their lives.

[jambonian]

If Hearts were anywhere near finishing 2nd or even 1st, the powers-that-be would not allow it to happen. Referees would be told to clamp down on anything Hearts players did and let off other clubs for similar things. Look what happened last time, beating Celtic 1-0 at Tynie, ref sends off Fyssas for basically nothing, gives them 2 free-kicks from where Fyssas would've been defending, one of which a Hearts player was pushed, should have been a free-kick to us but no, final score? 2-1 Celtic, job done! Then to add salt to the wound, Fyssas's red card was recinded!! Well... the challenge was albeit over, had to think of a way to show no bias against Hearts of course!(nudge-nudge). The challenge died from that game onwards.

[JewelsOfTheRomanovs]

It just shows how much Phychological harm the old firm have inflicted on our league. This fear factor of playing them makes them almost guarenteed to finish 1st and 2nd and it gets on my tits how team can't seem to break this phychological barrior.

 

If any team is to break the old firm, they need to get past the fear factor, the cheating SFA, they need to invest and risk bankrupcy, they need to somehow win games while the ref is giving the old firm everything, they need to get past the media and somehow ignore it, they need to beat the hype surrounding the challenge.

 

All those factors and many, many more make it almost impossible to break the old firm. It is sad that in a professional league we have no hope of seeing our team win the league but it is the way it is. Even though Rangers are skint they were able to sign a quality player like beattie for 1m, 250k more than our ******* record signing!

 

I am pissed off to the ******* bone of our pishy little league. I want to see my team challenge for the league. I want to be enthralled like in 2005 in a battle to the wire. I want my team in the champions league but because of this sick stangle hold they have over the league it aint going to happen.

 

Without doubt the best reply on this subject. What every you say about Romanov he does see things differently from the rest of Scottish football which is a good thing. Many like to mock him for doing so, even Hearts fans which saddens me tremendously. I'm not suggesting we start each season with quotes about how we are going to win the SPL but lets not give up on it before it's even started.