grumpyjambo Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/latestnews/39Sicknote-Scotland39-costs-1bn-a.3858840.jp Privatise the public sector and the amount of sick days will drop immediatly. Let them get real jobs in the private sector and see what real stress is, and dont get me started on their pensions!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Got to agree. They get better pensions and holiday allocations than us in the private sector. I have some friends who get about 45 days holiday a year. The bank holiday allocation is a joke as well - they get holidays that have nothing to do with where they work. It is clear that they are incapable of running projects with sensitive data, so these must be taken out of the hands of civil servants. As for sick days, one of them told me that they treat their 10 days sick leave allocation as extra holidays and make sure they use them up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyjambo Posted March 9, 2008 Author Share Posted March 9, 2008 My sister in law works in the Inland Revenue and every year she has three weeks holiday in the spring, three in the autumn and two and a half weeks at Christmas plus public holidays WTF? I sometimes wonder that if they can have all these holidays if they are all needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwull22 Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 I work in the nhs and have done 20 years I get 33 days a/leave plus 6 pub hols, if I work 40 years my pension can be a maximum of half pay, I also contribute 6.5% of my salary to my pension it is not non contributory, and my salary is ?22000, if you have more than periods of absence in a rolling 12 months you are hauled up in front of the beaks, how dare you private sector spongers, with all your untaxed perks golden hellos / goodbyes dodgy practises comment unless you have worked there yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 I work in the nhs and have done 20 years I get 33 days a/leave plus 6 pub hols, if I work 40 years my pension can be a maximum of half pay, I also contribute 6.5% of my salary to my pension it is not non contributory, and my salary is ?22000, if you have more than periods of absence in a rolling 12 months you are hauled up in front of the beaks, how dare you private sector spongers, with all your untaxed perks golden hellos / goodbyes dodgy practises comment unless you have worked there yourself. I think you might have a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deek Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Some public sector workers pay an 11% contribution to their pension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Some public sector workers pay an 11% contribution to their pension. Yes, but don't they retire after 5 years or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deek Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Yes, but don't they retire after 5 years or something? Something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Something like that. Unless they get a bad back, and then it's 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyjambo Posted March 9, 2008 Author Share Posted March 9, 2008 I work in the nhs and have done 20 years I get 33 days a/leave plus 6 pub hols, if I work 40 years my pension can be a maximum of half pay, I also contribute 6.5% of my salary to my pension it is not non contributory, and my salary is ?22000, if you have more than periods of absence in a rolling 12 months you are hauled up in front of the beaks, how dare you private sector spongers, with all your untaxed perks golden hellos / goodbyes dodgy practises comment unless you have worked there yourself. I work in the private sector and I would love 39 days holiday, there is no way that I will get 1/2 salary after 40 years in the industry, I pay a lot more than 6.5% of my earnings. I suffered from stress in my last job and the only sympathy and help I got from my "caring employer" was my P45. Very few perks in the construction industry, an occasional trip to the footie is all I have ever had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwull22 Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 I work in the private sector and I would love 39 days holiday, there is no way that I will get 1/2 salary after 40 years in the industry, I pay a lot more than 6.5% of my earnings. I suffered from stress in my last job and the only sympathy and help I got from my "caring employer" was my P45. Very few perks in the construction industry, an occasional trip to the footie is all I have ever had. more perks than you get in the public sector tho, stress exists in every job i'm afraid, you could always apply for a job in the public sector and sort us all out, its open to everyone, terrible wages tho, thats the tradeoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 more perks than you get in the public sector tho, stress exists in every job i'm afraid, you could always apply for a job in the public sector and sort us all out, its open to everyone, terrible wages tho, thats the tradeoff Tell that to the doctors and teachers. Yes they do a very important job. But the cash they get for the hours they do is incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Tell that to the doctors and teachers. Yes they do a very important job. But the cash they get for the hours they do is incredible. How many hours do they do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambojohnnyboy Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/latestnews/39Sicknote-Scotland39-costs-1bn-a.3858840.jp Privatise the public sector and the amount of sick days will drop immediatly. Let them get real jobs in the private sector and see what real stress is, and dont get me started on their pensions!!!!!! I'm all for those that take advantage of the sick day being dealt with but there will be those who have conditions that warrant sick leave, just like you or me or have you never taken a sickie. You can't comment unless you work there, can you say they don't work as hard as those in the private sector, yeah we get public holidays but I can tell you now that those in a similar position to mine in the private sector are paid better than me and if you think stress doesn't exist in the public sector then you are sorely mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 How many hours do they do? Details for GP's below: http://www.ic.nhs.uk/pubs/gpworkload Looks like the average is between 39 and 44 hours. Not bad if you are getting on average ?106k per year........... As for teachers - on an average salary of about ?36k. http://tutor2u.net/newsmanager/templates/?a=2311 Not bad when you are working on average 42 hours per week and getting about 3.5 months paid holiday per year. http://www.scre.ac.uk/resreport/rr109/5.html I don't quite get this 'terrible wages' chat. I am sure some areas of public sector work are paid poorly. But some are paid amazingly for the hours worked. Same as the private sector........................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawrrrrrrr Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 What a bitter ill informed thread The punlic sector gets a bad press mainly as much of the information has to be released due to freedom of information and audits etc I bet private companies have as much a problem with absence and general **** from employees, its simply that due to the privacy and it not being public money that this isnt seen as an issue, However you can't expect public sector recruitment to be different As for holidays, this varies industry to industry public sector or not. I work in the private sector and get 30 days and 12 public days, before this I got 25 and 9. Im sure there are people in the private and public sector better off and likewise worse off. As for pensions again it varies industry to industry and company to company The one major consideration is that bonuses etc are much rarer, or lower in the public sector so this has to be paid elsewere Frankly I dont think the public sector is any different and that its just an easy target but im sure the government, tax and any other public agency have the exact same issues and comparable pay as would HBOS or RBS when all is said and done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 What a bitter ill informed thread The punlic sector gets a bad press mainly as much of the information has to be released due to freedom of information and audits etc I bet private companies have as much a problem with absence and general **** from employees, its simply that due to the privacy and it not being public money that this isnt seen as an issue, However you can't expect public sector recruitment to be different As for holidays, this varies industry to industry public sector or not. I work in the private sector and get 30 days and 12 public days, before this I got 25 and 9. Im sure there are people in the private and public sector better off and likewise worse off. As for pensions again it varies industry to industry and company to company The one major consideration is that bonuses etc are much rarer, or lower in the public sector so this has to be paid elsewere Frankly I dont think the public sector is any different and that its just an easy target but im sure the government, tax and any other public agency have the exact same issues and comparable pay as would HBOS or RBS when all is said and done Very true. It is someone on this thread who works in the public sector who stated the pay was 'Terrible'. That is simply not true. That is borne out by the above links to FACTS. Public sector workers feeling sorry for themselves I think.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawrrrrrrr Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Very true. It is someone on this thread who works in the public sector who stated the pay was 'Terrible'. That is simply not true. That is borne out by the above links to FACTS. Public sector workers feeling sorry for themselves I think.............. i think theres a bit of both, public sector workers moaning about pay and private sector ones moaning about the public sector As i said I think it varies company to company regardless of sector and the grass will always be greener for example my current role doesnt offer a bonus or many benefits, it does however offer a decent salary, good holidays and an exceptional pension. I however would prefer the bonuses and benefits, simply because I would use them more However I bet theres people out there who would jump at the chance of 42 days holiday, 10 % pension provision and private healthcare for 15 quid a month on top of a half decent salary Its all about perspectives and I think overall the public and private sector won't be very different in salaries or employment issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Public sector workers feeling sorry for themselves I think.............. If you take a closer look, you'll notice that posts 4 and 11 were posted by one public sector worker (singular). It would therefore be more accurate to say "public sector worker feeling sorry for himself". And maybe the combination of pay and conditions means he's justified. Prancer was right; you get bad and good employers and employees in any sector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 i think theres a bit of both, public sector workers moaning about pay and private sector ones moaning about the public sector As i said I think it varies company to company regardless of sector and the grass will always be greener for example my current role doesnt offer a bonus or many benefits, it does however offer a decent salary, good holidays and an exceptional pension. I however would prefer the bonuses and benefits, simply because I would use them more However I bet theres people out there who would jump at the chance of 42 days holiday, 10 % pension provision and private healthcare for 15 quid a month on top of a half decent salary Its all about perspectives and I think overall the public and private sector won't be very different in salaries or employment issues I totally agree. I reckon the differences are very small these days. Strange then how I always hear far more public sector workers moaning about pay than those in the private sector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 If you take a closer look, you'll notice that posts 4 and 11 were posted by one public sector worker (singular). It would therefore be more accurate to say "public sector worker feeling sorry for himself". And maybe the combination of pay and conditions means he's justified. Prancer was right; you get bad and good employers and employees in any sector. Yes he was. And it is undeniable that you hear far more public workers moaning about pay than you do private sector workers. Please don't try and deny that............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambojohnnyboy Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 I don't feel sorry for myself with regards what I get paid, if I did i would have left years ago, I stay because I enjoy what I do and they have been very good to me over the years. I can pay my bills and i come home occassionally stressed but I feel that I have worked hard over the years and have a great record of achievement that has and does give me a great deal of job satisfaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwull22 Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 If you take a closer look, you'll notice that posts 4 and 11 were posted by one public sector worker (singular). It would therefore be more accurate to say "public sector worker feeling sorry for himself". And maybe the combination of pay and conditions means he's justified. Prancer was right; you get bad and good employers and employees in any sector. please do not comment on something you clearly know nothing about, yes some public sector workers are paid well, but I can guarantee you that most are paid poorly, at which point was I feeling sorry for myself? It stikes me that its the first poster that was feeling sorry for himself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 I don't feel sorry for myself with regards what I get paid, if I did i would have left years ago, I stay because I enjoy what I do and they have been very good to me over the years. I can pay my bills and i come home occassionally stressed but I feel that I have worked hard over the years and have a great record of achievement that has and does give me a great deal of job satisfaction. Well you are a lucky chap. Good on you. I am jealous. Hope to change that sometime in the future though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambojohnnyboy Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Well you are a lucky chap. Good on you. I am jealous. Hope to change that sometime in the future though. At the end of the day, it's what you make of it yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Details for GP's below: http://www.ic.nhs.uk/pubs/gpworkload Looks like the average is between 39 and 44 hours. Not bad if you are getting on average ?106k per year........... As for teachers - on an average salary of about ?36k. http://tutor2u.net/newsmanager/templates/?a=2311 Not bad when you are working on average 42 hours per week and getting about 3.5 months paid holiday per year. http://www.scre.ac.uk/resreport/rr109/5.html I don't quite get this 'terrible wages' chat. I am sure some areas of public sector work are paid poorly. But some are paid amazingly for the hours worked. Same as the private sector........................ Interesting re the teacher average as an unpromoted teacher in Scotland has a maximum salary of around ?31.5k, if I correctly recall the last time my wife moaned at me about it. Anyway, I think teachers only get 12 weeks off a year plus some public holidays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyjambo Posted March 9, 2008 Author Share Posted March 9, 2008 Interesting re the teacher average as an unpromoted teacher in Scotland has a maximum salary of around ?31.5k, if I correctly recall the last time my wife moaned at me about it. Anyway, I think teachers only get 12 weeks off a year plus some public holidays. Wouldnae mind half of thae holidays!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scallywag Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 I have worked in both the public and private sector and both have there good and bad points. To compare the salarys most public sector workers get to doctors is laughable. I know in my case I would significantly increase my wage if I went back into the private sector (something I might do in a couple of years time if things go to plan). Public sector workers do get a bad press, admitadley there are people who deserve it. Overall the vast majority work extremely hard in often poorly paid jobs. I know lots of people who do vast amounts of extra hours for no extra pay or thanks, in the private sector this kind of dedication at least gets noticed and often rewarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Interesting re the teacher average as an unpromoted teacher in Scotland has a maximum salary of around ?31.5k, if I correctly recall the last time my wife moaned at me about it. Anyway, I think teachers only get 12 weeks off a year plus some public holidays. The figures will include heads of departments etc.. I imagine. Maybe that is why the 'average' is a bit higher than you expect ? Anyway 12 weeks off plus public holidays is about 3.5 months.....As I said !!! I can't believe you put the word 'only' in front of your statement !! Only a quarter of the year on paid holiday plus public holidays. How do they cope......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 The figures will include heads of departments etc.. I imagine. Maybe that is why the 'average' is a bit higher than you expect ? Anyway 12 weeks off plus public holidays is about 3.5 months.....As I said !!! I can't believe you put the word 'only' in front of your statement !! Only a quarter of the year on paid holiday plus public holidays. How do they cope......... Sshh, you'll get me in trouble by saying that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2 Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/latestnews/39Sicknote-Scotland39-costs-1bn-a.3858840.jp Privatise the public sector and the amount of sick days will drop immediatly. Let them get real jobs in the private sector and see what real stress is, and dont get me started on their pensions!!!!!! Sounds like someone who has not worked in the public sector in the last 10 years. Yes some public sector workers are on a jolly, the same can be said for some in the private sector. Amazing how if a newspaper says it, it's right - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownkg Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Wouldnae mind half of thae holidays!!!!! Of course you wouldn't but I'll bet you would not want to put in the average of 4 hours a night marking and preparation for the next days work that teachers known to me do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 please do not comment on something you clearly know nothing about, yes some public sector workers are paid well, but I can guarantee you that most are paid poorly, at which point was I feeling sorry for myself? It stikes me that its the first poster that was feeling sorry for himself Sorry if that came across like I was having a go at you. If you have another read through the post and the post it was quoting, I was actually having a go at the guy who was having a go at you. No offence intended. And with respect, I do know a little bit about the subject of public sector pay. Or at least I should hope I do, given my 27 years as a trade unionist in the public sector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Yes he was. And it is undeniable that you hear far more public workers moaning about pay than you do private sector workers. Please don't try and deny that............ It's also undeniable that you hear far more media comment about pay in the public sector than in commercial businesses. This is, of course, as it should be. The public sector is accountable to the taxpayers and citizens it serves, and media comment on public sector pay and performance supports that accountability. But a side-effect of this is that public sector pay is more likely to be discussed by everyone, simply because it is more likely to feature in the media. I know plenty of people in the private sector who complain about their pay, or who have moved jobs because of the pay. But their complaints (or the views of others about their pay) aren't newsworthy because the taxpayer isn't paying them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Interesting re the teacher average as an unpromoted teacher in Scotland has a maximum salary of around ?31.5k, if I correctly recall the last time my wife moaned at me about it. Anyway, I think teachers only get 12 weeks off a year plus some public holidays. ?30k+ with 12 weeks off a year? Plus public holidays? As an umpromoted teacher? What do promoted teachers make? Don't know of I misunderstood you Dave, but people are complaining about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyjambo Posted March 10, 2008 Author Share Posted March 10, 2008 Of course you wouldn't but I'll bet you would not want to put in the average of 4 hours a night marking and preparation for the next days work that teachers known to me do Teacher have allowed that situation to develop over the years, how they get out of it is anyones guess. Most of us work some sort of unpaid overtime throughout the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I P Knightley Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 It's also undeniable that you hear far more media comment about pay in the public sector than in commercial businesses. This is, of course, as it should be. The public sector is accountable to the taxpayers and citizens it serves, and media comment on public sector pay and performance supports that accountability. But a side-effect of this is that public sector pay is more likely to be discussed by everyone, simply because it is more likely to feature in the media. I know plenty of people in the private sector who complain about their pay, or who have moved jobs because of the pay. But their complaints (or the views of others about their pay) aren't newsworthy because the taxpayer isn't paying them. That one made me laugh. It really did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyjambo Posted March 10, 2008 Author Share Posted March 10, 2008 It's also undeniable that you hear far more media comment about pay in the public sector than in commercial businesses. This is, of course, as it should be. The public sector is accountable to the taxpayers and citizens it serves, and media comment on public sector pay and performance supports that accountability. But a side-effect of this is that public sector pay is more likely to be discussed by everyone, simply because it is more likely to feature in the media. I know plenty of people in the private sector who complain about their pay, or who have moved jobs because of the pay. But their complaints (or the views of others about their pay) aren't newsworthy because the taxpayer isn't paying them. :4_1_72: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Dee Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 I have worked for the NHS for the last 13 years. I always find it incredible how opinionated some people are without having the proper facts to hand. The bottom line is, that the NHS has been run by the Government from day 1, any faults with the system are down to management & successive Governments -not the workers. I get 33 days holiday, + 8 Public Holidays (PH's have to be taken -I can't very well come in on Boxing day if I feel like it.) To say that I get 8 weeks off is stretching it a bit. My department went down the road of privatisation about 5 years ago & it came fairly close to happening, but in the end the Company's involved in the tender backed out because they couldn't run the service with our budget. Predictably they wanted to 'cherry pick' the most profitable parts of our service & leave the crappy stuff to the NHS! If the NHS is ever privatised, then we are all in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelly Terraces Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 As a public sector worker, all I can say is, unlucky you lot for sucking corporate c*ck, you get all your deserve. Total puppets. Now jog on, you're companies only made a squillion quid in the time it's taken me to type this, you might get the sack reading it (hope you're not at work doing so, tch tch). If it's that good in the Public sector, get a job there, if not, then dont whinge about it. Sound like a right bunch of puffs if you ask me. Cheers. NT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 As a public sector worker, all I can say is, unlucky you lot for sucking corporate c*ck, you get all your deserve. Total puppets. Now jog on, you're companies only made a squillion quid in the time it's taken me to type this, you might get the sack reading it (hope you're not at work doing so, tch tch). If it's that good in the Public sector, get a job there, if not, then dont whinge about it. Sound like a right bunch of puffs if you ask me. Cheers. NT Nice one Comrade. *insert clenched fist smilie here* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfstar Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 ?30k+ with 12 weeks off a year? Plus public holidays? As an umpromoted teacher? What do promoted teachers make? Don't know of I misunderstood you Dave, but people are complaining about this? Just looking on our councils website, it looks like teachers wages start at ?23k and go up to ?32k. and there is alot of teacher posts flying around just now, just not enough teachers to classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelly Terraces Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Mrs Terraces is a maths teacher. The hours she works are unreal, the amount of weekends etc she puts in marking reports and all that, works her socks off. I'd say 99% of teachers earn their pay, there aren't many bad ones. the stress of the job is pretty considerable (would you want to teach the youth of today - nah, thought not, too many parents think school's are just dumping grounds for their brats). By the way, she left her job in SubStandard Life to become a teacher. She'd prob earn as much, no in fcat, more, working there as she does now, but without the stress. So, as I said, if you think it's as cushy in the public sector, follow my good ladys example and hop over to the 'other side'. Or is it that fact that actually, it's pretty easy where you work as well? NT. Nice one Comrade. *insert clenched fist smilie here* Indeed Boris. Hail the Republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberjambo Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 And what do we do if everyone did that? Who would pay for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelly Terraces Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 And what do we do if everyone did that? Who would pay for it? Not everyone will though. It's called frredom of choice. Suppose we didn't have any puclic sector workers, whose gonna sweep your streets or teach your kids? You could always go private. See how much that costs you then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwull22 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 And what do we do if everyone did that? Who would pay for it? Public Sector workers pay tax and NI too you know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I P Knightley Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Public Sector workers pay tax and NI too you know Maybe Mrs Terraces could give you a maths lesson. Someone has to fund the gross amount out of which the tax and NI are paid. I've worked in both sectors and there are positives to each; most of which have been raised in earlier posts: Private: upside potential on salary & perks for those willing to put in the effort Public: better work/life balance; pensions The downsides to both also seem (to me) to balance out: Private: less secure; longer hours Public: frustration over bureacracy; lack of recognistion/reward for being one helluva guy I'd never dream of criticising the 'front line' public sector workers in education or health (teachers, doctors, nurses) as I think, by and large, they put in their all and are inadequately rewarded. My scoff at the 'public sector workers being answerable/accountable' comment was aimed at the civil servants and bureacrats in central and local government who contribute the square root of Eff All but mop up budget. If the stats are true that 50% of the Scottish workforce are in the Public Sector, then it's an utter disgrace. Not everyone will though. It's called frredom of choice. Suppose we didn't have any puclic sector workers, whose gonna sweep your streets or teach your kids? You could always go private. See how much that costs you then. An earlier thread discussed this. I think for many it could cost less (those with kids at Heriots or Watsons already) since they'd only pay for the services they need. Also, I support your comments about teachers doing a little more than the 'visible' bit between 9 and 3.30 - the good, dedicated ones have a pretty poor hourly rate when all's taken into account. Unfortunately for me (& my kids), the proportion of good ones at my kids' school is a lot lower than 99%; although one of the factors is the attitude shown by many parents who, as you say, treat the place as a free dumping ground, leading to stress & disillusionment among the teaching staff. The fact that there are so many teaching posts advertised is a crying shame/damning indictment. These should be massively rewarded and snapped up by bright & able people. I'd do it myself but can't afford the salary drop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelly Terraces Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Maybe Mrs Terraces could give you a maths lesson. Someone has to fund the gross amount out of which the tax and NI are paid. I've worked in both sectors and there are positives to each; most of which have been raised in earlier posts: Private: upside potential on salary & perks for those willing to put in the effort Public: better work/life balance; pensions The downsides to both also seem (to me) to balance out: Private: less secure; longer hours Public: frustration over bureacracy; lack of recognistion/reward for being one helluva guy I'd never dream of criticising the 'front line' public sector workers in education or health (teachers, doctors, nurses) as I think, by and large, they put in their all and are inadequately rewarded. My scoff at the 'public sector workers being answerable/accountable' comment was aimed at the civil servants and bureacrats in central and local government who contribute the square root of Eff All but mop up budget. If the stats are true that 50% of the Scottish workforce are in the Public Sector, then it's an utter disgrace. An earlier thread discussed this. I think for many it could cost less (those with kids at Heriots or Watsons already) since they'd only pay for the services they need. Also, I support your comments about teachers doing a little more than the 'visible' bit between 9 and 3.30 - the good, dedicated ones have a pretty poor hourly rate when all's taken into account. Unfortunately for me (& my kids), the proportion of good ones at my kids' school is a lot lower than 99%; although one of the factors is the attitude shown by many parents who, as you say, treat the place as a free dumping ground, leading to stress & disillusionment among the teaching staff. The fact that there are so many teaching posts advertised is a crying shame/damning indictment. These should be massively rewarded and snapped up by bright & able people. I'd do it myself but can't afford the salary drop! Good post. Especially the part regarding attitude of parents contributing to bad teaching, or those who are actually good teachers not being able to do their jobs effectively. Some of the stories Mrs NT comes home with, it's pretty disgusting really, things my father would have hammered me for, now the parents just take the kids side. It's pathetic. NT. PS, if anyone is requiring a maths lesson, Mrs NT will provide a tutorial service, ?25 an hour, plus a tenner to me for 'arrangement fee'. God, what's the world coming to, I've become a maths pimp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Not everyone will though. It's called frredom of choice. Suppose we didn't have any puclic sector workers, whose gonna sweep your streets or teach your kids? You could always go private. See how much that costs you then. Nelly we just all seen how much the public sector costs us over the last few weeks. The council tax bills came in, then there's the central government stuff we don't see on top of that The guys and girls at the 'coal face' have it rough but don't forget the ineptitude and mis-management across the public sector is jaw dropping but it pales into insignificance when you look at the fiscal side of things, local governemt and the NHS being the prime suspects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelly Terraces Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Nelly we just all seen how much the public sector costs us over the last few weeks. The council tax bills came in, then there's the central government stuff we don't see on top of that The guys and girls at the 'coal face' have it rough but don't forget the ineptitude and mis-management across the public sector is jaw dropping but it pales into insignificance when you look at the fiscal side of things, local governemt and the NHS being the prime suspects. The Dept that I work, sorry that just isn't the case. EVERY penny is counted for, and financial prudence is scrupulous. 'Inpetitude' levels are way lower than any of the private sector employers I've worked with. In fact, I'd love to see some of the diddys I've worked with in the private sector come in here to work, they would be so far out their depth they'd sink. Agree to a certain extent re council tax bills, well for Edinburgh anyway, they are ludicrously high. That mob don't have a clue how to run a tuck shop. Just wait till the trams are up and running, they never make a penny and you can be sure, we'll pay for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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