English talks some sense

[Rivlin]

http://sport.scotsman.com/football/Tom-English-39SFA-never-under.5933668.jp

 

He might be a ****artist but he's spot on about Levein.

[shaun.lawson]

http://sport.scotsman.com/football/Tom-English-39SFA-never-under.5933668.jp

 

He might be a ****artist but he's spot on about Levein.

 

It is a decent article, I agree. Levein is good, but not great; and certainly, the SFA could've taken another month or two had they so wished. That Levein's been able to tell them he'll take the job, but only on his terms has been very impressive on his part, but shows how desperately weak the SFA's position is.

 

Ferguson or Moyes, the two best Scottish managers around? No chance. Smith or McLeish? Done it once; won't do it again. Strachan? In another job now, and not interested anyway. Souness or McGhee? Ruled themselves out: Souness because he wasn't considered last time, McGhee because he lost out to Burley last time.

 

Who, in all seriousness, does that leave? Levein's a smart cookie, and knows that too: hence his playing hardball, especially as the SFA don't have the money to get a top foreign coach in. Then, from CL's point of view, is precisely what English said: someone on here described his taking the job as an "unnecessary gamble", but if he stayed at United, the best they can do is third place, which is hardly going to attract an EPL club. And on their budget and gates, it's impossible for them to finish 3rd regularly, just as it was for Motherwell. McGhee stayed there, and his managerial star waned.

 

The only other way he could find a route to the EPL would be to manage one half of the OF, and do it incredibly well; but unlike McGhee, who unquestionably still thinks he can become Celtic boss at some point, that's totally at odds with Levein. He hates the OF, hates the influence they wield over the Scottish game; I think he's every bit as aware as all of us about how much change is needed. Do a great job with Scotland and maybe implement some sort of change within the game, and he wouldn't be tempted by a Championship club; but would be by an EPL one.

 

Hence his reasoning, which seems perfectly sensible to me. Good luck to him.

[jamboinglasgow]

meh, some good and some bad.

 

But he goes down the emerging criticism of the appointment of Levein from mainly OF media and fans. He has won nothing! Now this is a funny one, Bobby Williamson won the Scottish cup with Killie, does that mean we should pick him?

 

Being at certain clubs usually brings success or lack of trophies. The way I judge Levein is the OF test. If he was a manager at one of the old firm would he be a success, and quite frankly I think he would be a very good manager at Rangers and would win trophies. Lets then extend this out to previous Scottish managers, both McLeish and Smith who those regard as great managers for Scotland but outside of the Old Firm they won nothing of note (McLeish did win the Scottish first division with hibs.) Craig Brown who some called to return won nothing, though did come runners up in the Scotland U16s.

 

The manager who won something of note outside the OF was Berti Vogts who won Euro 1996, yet that did not make him a good manager for Scotland.

 

What Levein does do is build strong teams, who are very hard to beat but also are well organised and can perform well against big and small teams. He is a strong and dominate figure who we need to stand up to the media and the players and I feel that as the SFA have asked him to be manager despite his criticism demonstrates they must feel he may bring something. Plus he is a long term thinking manager which is something Scotland has been missing since Roxburgh. Levein wont be Cappello but he may be the best suited for the Scotland job, and I would rather he got us qualified for the Euro 2012 and left for the premiership having changed things then have another two years of some poor manager who condemns us to another two years without a major competition and leaves Scotland in the mess it was before.

[Rivlin]

Levein has always been good at looking after Levein. He is an average manager albeit an intelligent guy. He sees a cushy number where any kind of success will be hailed as wonderful after the past few managers. DU in the long term are going nowhere but Levein reckons he is by raising his profile as a National team coach. the risk is he balls it up but even then he could probably as the media's golden boy sneak back into management at least in the SPL.

[Rivlin]

meh, some good and some bad.

 

 

 

Being at certain clubs usually brings success or lack of trophies. The way I judge Levein is the OF test. If he was a manager at one of the old firm would he be a success, and quite frankly I think he would be a very good manager at Rangers and would win trophies.

 

 

 

 

Gordon Strachan was a good old firm manager; not doing so well now though. Donald Duck could probably manage one of the old firm and win something; the real trick is winning something outside of the old firm.

[shaun.lawson]

Levein has always been good at looking after Levein. He is an average manager albeit an intelligent guy. He sees a cushy number where any kind of success will be hailed as wonderful after the past few managers. DU in the long term are going nowhere but Levein reckons he is by raising his profile as a National team coach. the risk is he balls it up but even then he could probably as the media's golden boy sneak back into management at least in the SPL.

 

You mean like most managers then, especially intelligent ones? You mean like most people in business, especially intelligent ones?

 

Oooh, football manager in being ambitious shock. Burn him, burn him! After what happened at Leicester, he was right back at the bottom of the pile and had to reinvent himself. Less than five years later, he's manager of his country; and if he ends up in the EPL two or four years from now without having to manage one of the OF en route, more power to his elbow.

 

JiG's post was very perceptive. We hate the hold the OF have over the game here, and hate managers who sell themselves out to manage one of them. Then, when one doesn't and manages smaller clubs instead, we slag them with "what have they won? What have they won?" John Collins, Valdas Ivanauskas, Davie Hay, Bobby Williamson, Roy Aitken, Jimmy Nicholl and Ivan Golac aren't better managers than Levein because they won something: it's a ridiculously blinkered argument to suggest otherwise.

 

What's David Moyes won, Rivlin? I take it he must be average too?

[redm]

 

The only other way he could find a route to the EPL would be to manage one half of the OF, and do it incredibly well; but unlike McGhee, who unquestionably still thinks he can become Celtic boss at some point, that's totally at odds with Levein. He hates the OF, hates the influence they wield over the Scottish game; I think he's every bit as aware as all of us about how much change is needed. Do a great job with Scotland and maybe implement some sort of change within the game, and he wouldn't be tempted by a Championship club; but would be by an EPL one.

 

Hence his reasoning, which seems perfectly sensible to me. Good luck to him.

 

That's the odd thing about this appointment for me. I have no huge expectations in a football sense. Things being the way they are and as much as it pains me to admit it, I see a few barren years yet for Scotland. The players we have, the changes that are needed, even the psychological aspect of how we approach the game...there are a million and one things that need to be tweaked, fine tuned and completely overhauled.

 

But I like this appointment because I genuinely think he's the man to make these changes or get the ball rolling in the right direction at the very least. If he can't do it or turns out to be yet another in a long line of those who have tried and failed miserably, it'll be horribly depressing.

[Rivlin]

You mean like most managers then, especially intelligent ones? You mean like most people in business, especially intelligent ones?

 

Oooh, football manager in being ambitious shock. Burn him, burn him! After what happened at Leicester, he was right back at the bottom of the pile and had to reinvent himself. Less than five years later, he's manager of his country; and if he ends up in the EPL two or four years from now without having to manage one of the OF en route, more power to his elbow.

 

JiG's post was very perceptive. We hate the hold the OF have over the game here, and hate managers who sell themselves out to manage one of them. Then, when one doesn't and manages smaller clubs instead, we slag them with "what have they won? What have they won?" John Collins, Valdas Ivanauskas, Davie Hay, Jimmy Calderwood, Roy Aitken, Jimmy Nicholl and Ivan Golac aren't better managers than Levein because they won something: it's a ridiculously blinkered argument to suggest otherwise.

 

What's David Moyes won, Rivlin? I take it he must be average too?

 

Where exactly did I criticise Levein for what he is doing? Leicester was a test; he failed it. He's the only guy who seems to want the poisoned chalice and hence is in a position to dictate terms. That doesn't make him of the quality required. As I said he's looking after number uno. No problem with that.

 

If you are comparing Moyes with Levein; gies a break. Moyes with no money has kept Everton mid table in what is supposed to be the most competitive league in the world. Still mid table IS average so on that criteron he must be average. There is average and average.

[Maroon tinted glasses 2]

So he is saying that it was pretty much down to the journo's that told the GFA to give the job to craig, Brave statement but if it all goes pear shaped will the new GFA scouts stand up and be counted.......... Dont think so!

[shaun.lawson]

Where exactly did I criticise Levein for what he is doing? Leicester was a test; he failed it. He's the only guy who seems to want the poisoned chalice and hence is in a position to dictate terms. That doesn't make him of the quality required. As I said he's looking after number uno. No problem with that.

 

If you are comparing Moyes with Levein; gies a break. Moyes with no money has kept Everton mid table in what is supposed to be the most competitive league in the world. Still mid table IS average so on that criteron he must be average. There is average and average.

 

I'm not comparing Moyes with Levein. I'm agreeing with JiG that the "what's he won?" argument is horribly flawed, more so nowadays than ever. If you think Moyes is in any way average, you need your head read (Moyes isn't average; he's brilliant); and Levein isn't average either. He's good.

 

Who is of the quality required in your view, and would take the job? No-one that I can see. So Levein's the best of those available, and will bring an intelligence and hard headedness to the job which should see him do well IMO.

[shaun.lawson]

That's the odd thing about this appointment for me. I have no huge expectations in a football sense. Things being the way they are and as much as it pains me to admit it, I see a few barren years yet for Scotland. The players we have, the changes that are needed, even the psychological aspect of how we approach the game...there are a million and one things that need to be tweaked, fine tuned and completely overhauled.

 

But I like this appointment because I genuinely think he's the man to make these changes or get the ball rolling in the right direction at the very least. If he can't do it or turns out to be yet another in a long line of those who have tried and failed miserably, it'll be horribly depressing.

 

Perhaps. Most of these players did very well under Smith and McLeish though; and Levein's certainly capable of doing as well as they did. I don't think he'll fail miserably; I think he'll fail narrowly, probably getting Scotland to a play-off. He's had so many excruciating near misses in his career that he must be cursed; but for me, Scotland's Euro 2012 target can only be the play-offs, and then seeing how they fare in the draw. Anything more would be a pipedream.