Craig R Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Good to hear that the righties are getting shafted once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Seem to remember that 800 staff made the short-term sacrifice of working for free earlier in the last year and that thousands agreed to pay cuts. Funny how this seems to have been forgotten, now. Because it suits the critics agenda. The can always fly European with Ryanair. Lovely man in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Le Clos Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I have lost a lot of sympathy for people who strike, simply because it happens so often now. Train drivers who earn 27k a year striking. Cabin crew (waitors/waitresses really) who earn 29k a year striking. I just don't get it. Nearly all private companies are making cuts, changing pay/working conditions. The reality is that the majority of these people have had it a lot better than workers in the public sector for years and now that the bubble has burst, they are the first to complain. IMO, teachers and nurses should be paid a lot more. But these people have the decency to think about how badly them striking would affect the people they are employed to help. The majority of unions who strike now do so without a moments thought for who the people are it will really affect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwull22 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Striking in this economic climate is ****ing stupid. My father in law worked for an automotive manufacturer in southern Ontario, and not only did his factory close, but the industry was decimated. The unions suggested striking, but at that point, they were way too scared to lose their jobs (which they lost anyways). Because they bottled it the management did what they wanted. Its even more important now than ever to stand up for what few rights we have left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I have lost a lot of sympathy for people who strike, simply because it happens so often now. Makes me feel nostalgic for the 1970s when I read that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveofthegame Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Fly back from London with them on the 21st. Phew:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac_fae_Gillie Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 BA staff always seem to strike at xmas or mid summer just in time to hurt the ave' Joe..hate them and im not travelling but had holiday delayed 2days in 2006. Funny though just seems lucky they got themselves 12 days off over christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Say What Again Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 The British Airways cabin crew strike. In a nutshell; a perfect example of why we didn't used to let women and gays vote on anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 The British Airways cabin crew strike. In a nutshell; a perfect example of why we didn't used to let women and gays vote on anything. :santa1: I see you're the first, JoH - and am expecting others to follow your example before the day is out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Say What Again Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 :santa1: I'll change it back by the end of the day Shaun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Heaney Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Perhaps BA management shouldn't have shafted their staff then? If the employer is in dire straits, who is to blame for that? Given the 9 to 1 in favour of strike action, I would doubt that the action is petty or pointless. I hope all the trolly dollys from BA now realize that there are 800 folk just waiting for the chance to work next week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 :santa1: I'll change it back by the end of the day Shaun And what makes you think I was referring to your avatar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamcraigbeattie Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 So all those who are critics of strike action will be happy if next week their bosses tell them that they will need to reduce salaries plus benefits, cut their pension benefits and cut staff numbers making them work harder -- you will then accept a 2 year pay freeze, reduced salaries for new starts, limited promotion prospects for all staff. In the good times the company could have put more money towards the pension defecit but chose to increase dividends to the shareholders ignoring the possiblity of a market slowdown -- they also chose to target business passengers which in times of recession has proved to be costly -- all those decisions made by the very management which now wants to make them pay for their mistakes. You cannot have it all ways so if the staff are upset then at least consider why. Im sure nobody would be happy if they were told all this. However i would certainly take a pay cut if it meant i still had a job. This strike action is simply commercial suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Heaney Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 So all those who are critics of strike action will be happy if next week their bosses tell them that they will need to reduce salaries plus benefits, cut their pension benefits and cut staff numbers making them work harder -- you will then accept a 2 year pay freeze, reduced salaries for new starts, limited promotion prospects for all staff. In the good times the company could have put more money towards the pension defecit but chose to increase dividends to the shareholders ignoring the possiblity of a market slowdown -- they also chose to target business passengers which in times of recession has proved to be costly -- all those decisions made by the very management which now wants to make them pay for their mistakes. You cannot have it all ways so if the staff are upset then at least consider why. If my company were in the same position as BA and my industry were in the same position as the aviation industry is and it meant keeping my job ? Then what do you really think my answer would be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leginten Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 :santa1: I'll change it back by the end of the day Shaun How much credence are we to lend to Le Chat's contention that he is not, in fact, the perpetrator of this piece of ...er... street art? :santa1: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 I hope all the trolly dollys from BA now realize that there are 800 folk just waiting for the chance to work next week Yeah democracy? Those wanting to work could always resign from the Union if they wanted to. If my company were in the same position as BA and my industry were in the same position as the aviation industry is and it meant keeping my job ? Then what do you really think my answer would be How about, "Hey Mr Boss Man, my trousers are down and I'm bent over the desk. Ready when you are." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Heaney Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Yeah democracy? Those wanting to work could always resign from the Union if they wanted to. How about, "Hey Mr Boss Man, my trousers are down and I'm bent over the desk. Ready when you are." Looking at these wages its the cabin crew thats been doing the shafting Average earnings for cabin services directors are ?56,000 on long-haul and ?52,000 on short-haul. For junior crew, they are ?35,000 and ?26,000 respectively. According to the Civil Aviation Authority, average costs of BA crew are twice those of their Virgin Atlantic counterparts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Looking at these wages its the cabin crew thats been doing the shafting Average earnings for cabin services directors are ?56,000 on long-haul and ?52,000 on short-haul. For junior crew, they are ?35,000 and ?26,000 respectively. According to the Civil Aviation Authority, average costs of BA crew are twice those of their Virgin Atlantic counterparts So BA's plight is down to the salaries they pay their cabin crew? Bottom line is you can't just rip up someones contract and say "Ok, now this is how it's going to be". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Brow Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 They earn a lot for being glorified waitresses, but whose faults that? Not theirs. BA offered those salaries no wonder they took them. Now the same bosses who gave them their salaries are wanting to cut salaries and basically rearrange the terms and conditions they were employed under. Tough ***** for the bosses I say. They may well be cutting off their nose to spite their face by striking but until itt goes ahead, we wont really know. Does anyone know if the directors/top bosses of BA have been subjected to wage freezes/no bonus etc as their low level staff? IF not then fair play to the strikers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Heaney Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 So BA's plight is down to the salaries they pay their cabin crew? Bottom line is you can't just rip up someones contract and say "Ok, now this is how it's going to be". No, but you can make them redundant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamcraigbeattie Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 So BA's plight is down to the salaries they pay their cabin crew? Bottom line is you can't just rip up someones contract and say "Ok, now this is how it's going to be". Yes its a massive contributing factor there is after all 13000 of them. But the biggest factor to the survival of BA is keeping there aircrafts in the air and bums on seats in one of their busiest periods. There's a time and place to strike but it doesnt take a rocket scientist to see the effects this 12 days strike will have on BA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 No, but you can make them redundant So why haven't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Heaney Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 So why haven't they? I think you will find that they have or at least been offering it with around 30% of their managers accepting it and around 6,000 accepting wage decreases Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Yes its a massive contributing factor there is after all 13000 of them. But the biggest factor to the survival of BA is keeping there aircrafts in the air and bums on seats in one of their busiest periods. There's a time and place to strike but it doesnt take a rocket scientist to see the effects this 12 days strike will have on BA. Hence the reason the vote was successful - to highlight the fact that management are riding roughshod over the rights of the employees! A tactic to bring management to the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Brow Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 I think you will find that they have or at least been offering it Correct. They've offered it to everyone including all managers over the last eighteen months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 I think you will find that they have or at least been offering it So some staff have taken redundancy and this means existing staff should have their terms and conditions ripped up too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheriff Fatman Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 If my company were in the same position as BA and my industry were in the same position as the aviation industry is and it meant keeping my job ? Then what do you really think my answer would be If past behaviour is to be followed the average worker would vote for some workers to be laid off rather than all workers taking a pay cut. Most people bet on it not being them that will be laid off. I don't know if that would be your answer, but it is what usually happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Heaney Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 So some staff have taken redundancy and this means existing staff should have their terms and conditions ripped up too? Boris, you are either playing devils advocate or just not getting it (I think its the former, or at least hope it is :santa4: ) What they have done up until now is just the start of whats needing to be done, the company and the industry is a mess. Do you think these guys at Globespan this morning are wishing they had had the chance of a pay cut/freeze or redundacy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Le Clos Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 I wonder how these cabin crew will feel if BA does go bust. I will have no sympathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 What makes me laugh is how many people are so against those who strike, what other options do staff have, what would you say if it was your work next week? At my work at the moment the management are essentially doing the same thing - trying to rip up the contracts we have, Telling us we are getting new contracts with new terms and conditions, new pay, new work and new hours, all aspects poorer than we currently have. Do you think I could just go and break my contract with them in that way? Why should they be able to do that to me then? Contracts are meant to protect both parties not just be bits of paper staff have to follow until managers decide otherwise. It's poor management and poor employment law that's the problem in Britain - not the workforces who go on strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheriff Fatman Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Does anyone know if the directors/top bosses of BA have been subjected to wage freezes/no bonus etc as their low level staff? IF not then fair play to the strikers. I don't know about the top bosses, but one third of middle management have been laid off. Though to be fair, and going by my experiences in a similar industry, they could probably lay of the same number of middle managers again and still have half of the remainder sitting around twiddling their thumbs or counting paperclips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Boris, you are either playing devils advocate or just not getting it (I think its the former, or at least hope it is :santa4: ) What they have done up until now is just the start of whats needing to be done, the company and the industry is a mess. Do you think these guys at Globespan this morning are wishing they had had the chance of a pay cut/freeze or redundacy? Perhaps Management should have included the Union in the strategy in the first place to avoid all of this? Simply coming in and saying "right, see those terms and conditions we agreed on when we offered you the job? Well we are going to unilaterally change them" whilst forgetting the sacrifices the workers made earlier on in the year is simply taking the pee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 The video footage of the cabin staff leaping around like monkeys when the vote result was read out is shocking. They are acting as if they had just won the lottery, not commited commercial suicide! Zero sympathy for them. They have had it on easy street for decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky_26 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 court rules strike illegal http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8418805.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 I'm sure there will be another ballot for strike action, unless of course the management get round the table with the union. It is rather embarrassing for the Union though, however I'm sure they thought that they were doing it by the book. One wonders what effect on the ballot those who were leaving/retiring prior to strike action would have actually made? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therapist Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 court rules strike illegal http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8418805.stm Tremendous news. The union was about to buckle under public pressure. This gives them a way out without losing face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therapist Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 One wonders what effect on the ballot those who were leaving/retiring prior to strike action would have actually made? Nothing. There were apparently around 800 of them so the outcome would not have changed. In the eyes of the law however, it matters not a jot if there were 80, 800 or 8,000 - in the eyes of the law the ballot was still illegal. And the good thing is it was Conservative legislation that wrecked the strike. :santa4: :santa4: :santa4: :santa4: Now I can look forward to my holiday. BA to Gatwick on Wednesday evening then Qatar Airways to Bangkok next morning. Bring it on....:santa1: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Say What Again Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Phamism Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Just got home from Frankfurt on BA and the cabin Crew seemed to be nicer than of late.........me thinks they are all a bit embarrassed at being found out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PresidentRomanov Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Nothing. There were apparently around 800 of them so the outcome would not have changed. In the eyes of the law however, it matters not a jot if there were 80, 800 or 8,000 - in the eyes of the law the ballot was still illegal. And the good thing is it was Conservative legislation that wrecked the strike. :santa4: :santa4: :santa4: :santa4: Now I can look forward to my holiday. BA to Gatwick on Wednesday evening then Qatar Airways to Bangkok next morning. Bring it on....:santa1: I see they're talking about reballoting, and saying this would take around a month, meaning any future strike would take place at the end of January/start of February, I'm not having much luck with airlines at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therapist Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 I see they're talking about reballoting, and saying this would take around a month, meaning any future strike would take place at the end of January/start of February, I'm not having much luck with airlines at the moment Don't worry about it President. The horrible lefties have had a bloody nose from the courts, and an absolutely furious reaction from the public who - they were told by their lefty masters - would supposedly support them 100%. BA cabin staff and their daft union - the leader's on ?180k per annum apparently - have been absolutely routed. They won't be so silly again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southside1874 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 BA is in a terrible state. They have far too many employees on great contracts and many retired folk with great pensions. If they don't sort it out the company will fold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Heaney Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Power to the people my arse:santa5: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 The Union Leader should resign in shame. He tried to chase it through so they could strike at Xmas to cause the maximum pain for the public. He is ****. Bring back Maggie to nail **** like that. Although I hear she is a bit mental these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groot Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Seen something on the news about this, apologies but if already posted but average income for standard cabin crew on long haul flights is circa ?36k compared to around ?26k or so for the same level within Virgin, hardly a pittance They should look at what happened this week with Fly Globespan and appreciate what is being done is to help the future of the company As for cade's point re their reaction to the announcement of the ballot, I agree it is shocking, striking especially at Xmas where they could leave hundred/thousands of people out of pocket and their holiday plans should be something you enter into as a last resort, not something to celebrate says it all about these people IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 The fact that the cabin crew get 30k for serving tea and coffee is the reason BA is in the poo in the first place. New boss realises this and tries to change it. Cabin crew spit the dummy. Tough titty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronJambo Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 I see they're talking about reballoting, and saying this would take around a month, meaning any future strike would take place at the end of January/start of February, I'm not having much luck with airlines at the moment will be mucho upset if that happens. i'm sure i'd manage alternative arrangements but will be pee'd off i can't fly into city Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groot Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 The fact that the cabin crew get 30k for serving tea and coffee is the reason BA is in the poo in the first place. New boss realises this and tries to change it. Cabin crew spit the dummy. Tough titty! exactly, I'm sure there will be many people out there who would love to earn that wage for their 'hardships' time to enter the real world folks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian_1874 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 The fact that the cabin crew get 30k for serving tea and coffee is the reason BA is in the poo in the first place. New boss realises this and tries to change it. Cabin crew spit the dummy. Tough titty! Yes quite right, fancy actually wanting to stick to the terms that you signed up to, selfish barstewards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Yes quite right, fancy actually wanting to stick to the termsthat you signed up to, selfish barstewards Oh ok then. We'll stick to the terms for the last 2 months of BAs existance. Then when they all lose their jobs they'll be happy because they never took a pay cut. 3 billion quid hole in the pension scheme and a 265million quid loss in the last part of this year. Change or die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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