BA turkeys vote for Christmas

[Therapist]

With their employer already in dire straits these people must be stupid. And their suggestion that those who have their travel plans disrupted will blame the airline rather than the glorified waiters and waitresses beggars belief.

 

I'm travelling to Gatwick on 23 Dec - fortunately my onward connection is with Qatar Airways - but these selfish lefties better have seen sense by then and called off their petty pointless strike.

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8411214.stm

[Boris]

Perhaps BA management shouldn't have shafted their staff then?

 

If the employer is in dire straits, who is to blame for that?

 

Given the 9 to 1 in favour of strike action, I would doubt that the action is petty or pointless.

[IronJambo]

With their employer already in dire straits these people must be stupid. And their suggestion that those who have their travel plans disrupted will blame the airline rather than the glorified waiters and waitresses beggars belief.

 

I'm travelling to Gatwick on 23 Dec - fortunately my onward connection is with Qatar Airways - but these selfish lefties better have seen sense by then and called off their petty pointless strike.

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8411214.stm

 

have you actually listened to what these people have to say and why they're planning to strike?

 

imo they're choosing the wrong time to strike as its really going to hurt the customers. at least they have the balls to stand up for what they beleive in

[redjambo]

have you actually listened to what these people have to say and why they're planning to strike?

 

imo they're choosing the wrong time to strike as its really going to hurt the customers. at least they have the balls to stand up for what they beleive in

 

That's the way it's almost always planned, in order to maximise the effect of the strike. Sometimes it backfires...

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4335043.stm

[2NaFish]

these selfish lefties better have seen sense by then and called off their petty pointless strike.

 

Or what? You gonna go round their houses and pick a fight? Give 'em one for me.

[IronJambo]

That's the way it's almost always planned, in order to maximise the effect of the strike. Sometimes it backfires...

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4335043.stm

 

no way! seriously??

 

ba staff don't need to wait until christmas. remember, their beef is with the company and not the punters. they can easily have a huge effect by hitting their business customers on any given monday. i really don't see why they should ruin christmas for people.

 

maybe their thinking is that management will back down, but they're only going to come out of the corner fighting

[Therapist]

BA cabin crew are by far the best paid in the industry. I've been extremely loyal to BA for over 20 years now. If they're going to start nonsense like this, I'll have no hesitation in taking my custom elsewhere.

[redjambo]

no way! seriously??

 

ba staff don't need to wait until christmas. remember, their beef is with the company and not the punters. they can easily have a huge effect by hitting their business customers on any given monday. i really don't see why they should ruin christmas for people.

 

maybe their thinking is that management will back down, but they're only going to come out of the corner fighting

 

Yes, seriously. Threatening to cause maximum trouble for customers will provide greater leverage in getting management to agree. Choosing Christmas guarantees to gain the issue more media coverage, thus providing even more leverage. But of course, you knew all that...

[jambojackbilly]

BA cabin crew are by far the best paid in the industry. I've been extremely loyal to BA for over 20 years now. If they're going to start nonsense like this, I'll have no hesitation in taking my custom elsewhere.

 

I recommend Learjet.com

[Therapist]

I recommend Learjet.com

 

I heard they are quite unique...

[blairdin]

Yes, seriously. Threatening to cause maximum trouble for customers will provide greater leverage in getting management to agree. Choosing Christmas guarantees to gain the issue more media coverage, thus providing even more leverage. But of course, you knew all that...

 

The problem being, it could also be the final nail in the coffin for an airline that is already struggling badly to keep its head above water. It is that dire for BA, almost dammed if they cave to the union demands or dammed if they don't.

 

I'll be interested to see if Paw Broon/the Government will intervene here.

[Victorian]

With their employer already in dire straits these people must be stupid. And their suggestion that those who have their travel plans disrupted will blame the airline rather than the glorified waiters and waitresses beggars belief.

 

I'm travelling to Gatwick on 23 Dec - fortunately my onward connection is with Qatar Airways - but these selfish lefties better have seen sense by then and called off their petty pointless strike.

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8411214.stm

 

BA cabin crew are by far the best paid in the industry. I've been extremely loyal to BA for over 20 years now. If they're going to start nonsense like this, I'll have no hesitation in taking my custom elsewhere.

 

heh? so you wouldn't blame the airline but you will make the airline pay by taking your custom elsewhere?

[Therapist]

heh? so you wouldn't blame the airline but you will make the airline pay by taking your custom elsewhere?

 

Yes. Unfortunately, I cannot run the risk of lefty cabin crew ruining my travel plans. If the airline folds or has to reduce flights then the cabin crew will suffer and it will be well deserved.

[Glamorgan Jambo]

TBH I gave up on BA for long haul travel a long long time ago. Rubbish service (the disputes with the staff have been going on for 10 - 15 years and this is reflected in the service) and no loyalty to customers apart from the very biggest.

 

Virgin is infinitely better. They collect me and take me back home in a chauffered limo/well actually a chauffered Volvo (150 odd miles)which is quite a godsend after long haul trips from Asia. Their discounts are pretty decent even for relatively small businesses.

[stevie]

Utter madness by BA staff to carry out industrial action over the christmas holidays.No matter their beef with the management,choosing to use passengers as a barganing tool is a disgrace that may well cost lots of them their jobs.Bah humbug to the lot of them.

[Therapist]

TBH I gave up on BA for long haul travel a long long time ago. Rubbish service (the disputes with the staff have been going on for 10 - 15 years and this is reflected in the service) and no loyalty to customers apart from the very biggest.

 

Virgin is infinitely better. They collect me and take me back home in a chauffered limo/well actually a chauffered Volvo (150 odd miles)which is quite a godsend after long haul trips from Asia. Their discounts are pretty decent even for relatively small businesses.

 

I like the BA service although it's not a patch on Asian airlines such as Cathay, Malaysian and Singapore. Never flown with Qatar before and I am really looking forward to experiencing their product as it has a tremendous reputation.

 

Not flown with Virgin, but if Skytrax is to be believed their service is not waht it once was.

[Spitonastranger]

With their employer already in dire straits these people must be stupid. And their suggestion that those who have their travel plans disrupted will blame the airline rather than the glorified waiters and waitresses beggars belief.

 

I'm travelling to Gatwick on 23 Dec - fortunately my onward connection is with Qatar Airways - but these selfish lefties better have seen sense by then and called off their petty pointless strike.

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8411214.stm

 

you are a right wing MOD EDIT with no class:2thumbsup:

[Cade]

In the middle of a global recession, every private company is having to re-structure and slim down.

 

BA is no exception.

 

Their staff have been over-paid and coddled for years.

 

Time to live in the real world, ladies and gents.

 

Same goes for posties, bankers, MPs and everyone else.

[Therapist]

you are a right wing MOD EDIT with no class:2thumbsup:

 

No need for that.

[Seats]

Perhaps BA management shouldn't have shafted their staff then?

 

If the employer is in dire straits, who is to blame for that?

 

Given the 9 to 1 in favour of strike action, I would doubt that the action is petty or pointless.

 

oh well, at least when they are in the dole queue they can feel smug about the fact it wasn't their fault the company went to the wall, eh?

[The Vulture]

The company is ?400m in debt according to what was said on the radio. Friend I know who worked for them out of Manchester Airport left them after they wanted her to work for nothing. They are hardly an example of financial sustainability. Companies like this should not be floated on the stock exchange, then the shareholders and not the customers become a priority.

 

I personally would let them go to the wall.

[Glamorgan Jambo]

I like the BA service although it's not a patch on Asian airlines such as Cathay, Malaysian and Singapore. Never flown with Qatar before and I am really looking forward to experiencing their product as it has a tremendous reputation.

 

Not flown with Virgin, but if Skytrax is to be believed their service is not waht it once was.

 

I agree with you that Malaysian and Singapore are top notch airlines. Not so sure about Cathay though. I tend to only use the Asian airlines for inter Asian travel as the route deals from Virgin for Business Class are a lot better for me because of our low volume to their separate destinations.

 

Virgin is good at the front of the plane but awful and to be avoided at the back... especially on their North American routes. The Asian routes have a high %age of local flight attendants so that may have something to do with it. they've done away with some of the extras from biz class in the last couple of years or so... but tbh an inflight neck massage at the front of a noisy A340 over one of the 'Stans' wasn't that great a treat anyway.

 

Good luck wth Qatar

[A Boy Named Crow]

BA cabin crew are by far the best paid in the industry. I've been extremely loyal to BA for over 20 years now. If they're going to start nonsense like this, I'll have no hesitation in taking my custom elsewhere.

 

I've already started. They've been my first choice airline for flying home for three years now. When I was booking my flights a few weeks ago I took a hit on the convenience and took the BMI/EasyJet option because I knew I couldn't trust the morons at BA not to leave me high and dry.

I'm sure Iberia will make a much better job of running the show anyway - less a few unionised, pig headed myopic employees!

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I'm flying back to God's country with Malaysian Airlines in March. I've used BA long-haul once (never again) and Qantas, who were ok. BA are just appalling and if they go bust, they deserve it.

[davemclaren]

I've never had many problems flying with BA to be honest. I've used them many times for internal or European flights. We flew to the states at Easter and they were fine then as well. Of course we were steerage...

[Boris]

I've flown long(ish) haul with BA once (well twice I suppose, India and back) and it was ok - apart from the food poisoning on the way home!

 

To paint the cabin crews as rabid lefties is a wee but wide of the mark. These are simply people trying to protect the working rights that they have signed contracts for.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I've never had many problems flying with BA to be honest. I've used them many times for internal or European flights. We flew to the states at Easter and they were fine then as well. Of course we were steerage...

 

I was in cattle class as well!

[jamboinglasgow]

In the middle of a global recession, every private company is having to re-structure and slim down.

 

BA is no exception.

 

Their staff have been over-paid and coddled for years.

 

Time to live in the real world, ladies and gents.

 

Same goes for posties, bankers, MPs and everyone else.

 

 

When the e-mail came through at work today saying about the strike, one of my colleuges said basicly that, she should be happy at least to be in a job while everyone else is losing theirs, and this person has experenced being laid off for no reason as the owner does a runner.

 

While there are trying to stop job cuts, they are hardly in the strongest posistion as if it damages the company too much the company will go bankrupt, if they gets the demands the company may have trouble operating and go bankrupt. To be honest it could be interesting how this plays out over the next few months and years as I think the government will feel they cant afford the flag carrier airline of the UK to go bust, and could even go the same way as the banks.

[CJGJ]

So all those who are critics of strike action will be happy if next week their bosses tell them that they will need to reduce salaries plus benefits, cut their pension benefits and cut staff numbers making them work harder -- you will then accept a 2 year pay freeze, reduced salaries for new starts, limited promotion prospects for all staff.

 

In the good times the company could have put more money towards the pension defecit but chose to increase dividends to the shareholders ignoring the possiblity of a market slowdown -- they also chose to target business passengers which in times of recession has proved to be costly -- all those decisions made by the very management which now wants to make them pay for their mistakes.

You cannot have it all ways so if the staff are upset then at least consider why.

[Cade]

Ok so BA has a ?3.4BILLION quid hole in its pension fund and lost ?250million in the last quarter of this year.

 

BA has to try to make savings by becoming more efficient and cutting back on staff.

 

For the staff to strike is childish at best and utterly stupid at worst.

 

If BA does not change right now, it will die. Then they'll ALL be out of a job instead of only a few of them.

Fuds.

[I P Knightley]

I try to be pretty loyal to BA but about 3 years ago they went through this shenanigans when I had a couple of business trips and so I booked with other airlines.

 

Neither airline was as good as BA for comfort or service (one was Air Jamaica, the other one of the American airlines). So I'll still use BA if they offer convenient times & destinations

 

I once flew to KL on Malaysian and found that the seat/beds had been designed for Malaysian people who tend to be smaller than me so I've since gone with BA, despite them not going direct.

 

Overall, I wish they'd sort themselves out because what they do is only bettered (in my experience) by Emirates; with Virgin being 'as good' as BA.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

So all those who are critics of strike action will be happy if next week their bosses tell them that they will need to reduce salaries plus benefits, cut their pension benefits and cut staff numbers making them work harder -- you will then accept a 2 year pay freeze, reduced salaries for new starts, limited promotion prospects for all staff.

 

In the good times the company could have put more money towards the pension defecit but chose to increase dividends to the shareholders ignoring the possiblity of a market slowdown -- they also chose to target business passengers which in times of recession has proved to be costly -- all those decisions made by the very management which now wants to make them pay for their mistakes.

You cannot have it all ways so if the staff are upset then at least consider why.

 

No one is expecting staff to be happy.

 

The point is that the company is in a mess and the pervasive feeling amongst the unions seems to be that is the 'flag carrier' for Britain so there is no way that it will be allowed to go bust. I think this is a fallacy.

[Flogel7]

I was just shocked that BA cabin crew earn ?29k a year!!!!

[Cade]

I was just shocked that BA cabin crew earn ?29k a year!!!!

 

Ridiculous, innit?

 

15k is all that job is worth.

[portobellojambo1]

So all those who are critics of strike action will be happy if next week their bosses tell them that they will need to reduce salaries plus benefits, cut their pension benefits and cut staff numbers making them work harder -- you will then accept a 2 year pay freeze, reduced salaries for new starts, limited promotion prospects for all staff.

 

In the good times the company could have put more money towards the pension defecit but chose to increase dividends to the shareholders ignoring the possiblity of a market slowdown -- they also chose to target business passengers which in times of recession has proved to be costly -- all those decisions made by the very management which now wants to make them pay for their mistakes.

You cannot have it all ways so if the staff are upset then at least consider why.

 

I don't think there is any doubt the staff will have grievances, but the end result could be that rather than have a job with a reduced all round package they could have no job at all. If I participated in a strike and that was the outcome I wouldn't consider it a result. The timing of the strike will undoubtedly hurt BA, but may not have the desirted effect, as loyal passengers will have to look for alternative providers over Christmas and New Year (given the strike is to last for 12 days I believe) and those passengers may not return to BA post strike.

[davemclaren]

Ridiculous, innit?

 

15k is all that job is worth.

 

You wouldn't say that if they had to help you off a burning plane.

[IMA MAROON]

I've flown long(ish) haul with BA once (well twice I suppose, India and back) and it was ok - apart from the food poisoning on the way home!

 

To paint the cabin crews as rabid lefties is a wee but wide of the mark. These are simply people trying to protect the working rights that they have signed contracts for.

 

Compared to you, there are no lefties.

[Cade]

You wouldn't say that if they had to help you off a burning plane.

 

Oot the door and down the slide, isn't it?

 

Not much help needed to do that.

[CJGJ]

I don't think there is any doubt the staff will have grievances, but the end result could be that rather than have a job with a reduced all round package they could have no job at all. If I participated in a strike and that was the outcome I wouldn't consider it a result. The timing of the strike will undoubtedly hurt BA, but may not have the desirted effect, as loyal passengers will have to look for alternative providers over Christmas and New Year (given the strike is to last for 12 days I believe) and those passengers may not return to BA post strike.

 

So can you tell me when the management will make the ultimate sacrifice as they led the company --------------- answer -- a long long time in the future, if ever, as they claim they are the very people to get them out of the hole they helped dig.

Nothing to do with share options or salary bonuses of course -- when I see a boss in good times benefit I expect in bad times him to suffer but not in this case it seems.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

So can you tell me when the management will make the ultimate sacrifice as they led the company --------------- answer -- a long long time in the future, if ever, as they claim they are the very people to get them out of the hole they helped dig.

Nothing to do with share options or salary bonuses of course -- when I see a boss in good times benefit I expect in bad times him to suffer but not in this case it seems.

 

Actually, Willie Walsh is relatively new to the job.

 

BA never truly replaced Lord King and were distracted in the 90s by pointless squabbles with Branson and others. Meantime, the Asian competition caught them up and surpassed them as they focused their efforts on the transatlantic routes.

 

Now peak oil is on the horizon plus new carbon taxes are a possibility after the Copenhagen farce draws to a close. Management being emptied is one thing - recovering from this position is another.

[CJGJ]

Actually, Willie Walsh is relatively new to the job.

 

BA never truly replaced Lord King and were distracted in the 90s by pointless squabbles with Branson and others. Meantime, the Asian competition caught them up and surpassed them as they focused their efforts on the transatlantic routes.

 

Now peak oil is on the horizon plus new carbon taxes are a possibility after the Copenhagen farce draws to a close. Management being emptied is one thing - recovering from this position is another.

 

He has been in the job since 2005 -- so hardly new -- note in 2008 record profits of ?875 million when he took share options of over ?1million -- being kind enough to forgo his bonus because of terminal 5 problems -- again under his watch -- please tell me why he is not responsible ?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

He has been in the job since 2005 -- so hardly new -- note in 2008 record profits of ?875 million when he took share options of over ?1million -- being kind enough to forgo his bonus because of terminal 5 problems -- again under his watch -- please tell me why he is not responsible ?

 

I didn't say he wasn't responsible. I'm saying a lot of the issues that BA have are legacy ones that he picked up, particularly the pension fund deficit.

 

So Walsh getting emptied isn't an issue. However, if he was, do you think the strikes would be called off?

[CJGJ]

I didn't say he wasn't responsible. I'm saying a lot of the issues that BA have are legacy ones that he picked up, particularly the pension fund deficit.

 

So Walsh getting emptied isn't an issue. However, if he was, do you think the strikes would be called off?

 

Walsh going would set the tone for future discussions -- I don't want to argue the points Geoff but he is at least partly responsible and has avoided action on defecit over 4 years, things need to change of course but the point I am trying to make is that others should think of the staff at this time and their families.

Just how long do you deem an issue a legacy problem that has nothing to do with the present incumbant ?

 

Back in 2008 was the time for action as we all knew what was coming -- he has tried to sidestep his responsibilities and needs to realise he is part of the problem as are entrenched staff attitudes in the real world 2009.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Walsh going would set the tone for future discussions -- I don't want to argue the points Geoff but he is at least partly responsible and has avoided action on defecit over 4 years, things need to change of course but the point I am trying to make is that others should think of the staff at this time and their families.

Just how long do you deem an issue a legacy problem that has nothing to do with the present incumbant ?

 

Back in 2008 was the time for action as we all knew what was coming -- he has tried to sidestep his responsibilities and needs to realise he is part of the problem as are entrenched staff attitudes in the real world 2009.

 

In the case of the pension fund, that has been a consequence since privatisation, further exacerbated by the attacks on pension funds by Crash Gordon. It's the same with Royal Mail.

 

Has Walsh ducked issues? Probably. BA's focus seems to be on the Iberia merger and/or Qantas merger to try and take out back office costs. Understandable but where people have fallen out with BA is the service as they've experienced the competition. That suggests a culture where staff are alienated and/or incompetent and management attention is elsewhere.

 

Either way, they have to realise they need each other to get out of the mess rather than fighting the bit out.

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

My attendance at Falkirk v Hearts and Hearts v Motherwell, plus the little matter of Christmas with my family, are now in doubt thanks to this dispute. I can't say I've got any sympathy with the union on this one.

[Jimmy McNulty]

Striking in this economic climate is ****ing stupid.

 

My father in law worked for an automotive manufacturer in southern Ontario, and not only did his factory close, but the industry was decimated.

 

The unions suggested striking, but at that point, they were way too scared to lose their jobs (which they lost anyways).

[The Real Maroonblood]

So all those who are critics of strike action will be happy if next week their bosses tell them that they will need to reduce salaries plus benefits, cut their pension benefits and cut staff numbers making them work harder -- you will then accept a 2 year pay freeze, reduced salaries for new starts, limited promotion prospects for all staff.

 

In the good times the company could have put more money towards the pension defecit but chose to increase dividends to the shareholders ignoring the possiblity of a market slowdown -- they also chose to target business passengers which in times of recession has proved to be costly -- all those decisions made by the very management which now wants to make them pay for their mistakes.

You cannot have it all ways so if the staff are upset then at least consider why.

 

Good post.

[Bomber Harris' Best Mate]

With their employer already in dire straits these people must be stupid. And their suggestion that those who have their travel plans disrupted will blame the airline rather than the glorified waiters and waitresses beggars belief.

 

I'm travelling to Gatwick on 23 Dec - fortunately my onward connection is with Qatar Airways - but these selfish lefties better have seen sense by then and called off their petty pointless strike.

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8411214.stm

 

you spelt bheggars wrong

 

tabs & baccy??

[Miller Jambo 60]

BA cabin crew are by far the best paid in the industry. I've been extremely loyal to BA for over 20 years now. If they're going to start nonsense like this, I'll have no hesitation in taking my custom elsewhere.

 

Its like the nurses, they are well paid but are always moaning.

My wifes a nurse by the way.

So do these people get all there money back.

How much are they on an hour, i bet its more than 5.80.

[Gabriel]

Seem to remember that 800 staff made the short-term sacrifice of working for free earlier in the last year and that thousands agreed to pay cuts. Funny how this seems to have been forgotten, now.