Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 Purely for my own education please, which book or part of the bible (which I understand is God's word) actually mentions "The Pope", or is that a man made position? Just asking. It comes from the belief that Peter was asked by Jesus to carry the torch as it were. He's classed as the first Pope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 Then you'd be wrong. Aid agencies have been saying for years that the eradication of disease (HIV, dysentery etc) is every bit as important as the nourishment these people require on a daily basis. The means are there - condoms etc, however, like any poorly educated populous, they tend to believe the preaching of a few rather than the concerns of many. 1000's of kids are orphaned every day due to Aids and a large percentage of those kids have the misfortune of carrying on their parents legacy as they have HIV themselves. 100 bags of potatoes and drinking water ain't gonna stop the spread of Aids and other nasties. Contraception does that. A parent isn't any good, nor gonna be providing anything to a baby, toddler or child if that parent is dead from having aids. That baby will more than likely die before its 1st b'day. I know this post appears patronising, but it's not indented that way, so don't take it that way, mate. No offence taken mate. It's debate. I've travelled through Southern Africa and have seen the living conditions of relatively organised and structured parts of Sub-Saharan Africa. It's hard to conceptualise unless you've seen it. Contraception may well be available in these places but i stand by my point that it's well down the list for a populous that's main priority is day to day survival. I said on a thread in the terrace on a similar subject that to blame the spread of HIV/AIDS solely on the Catholic Church's stance on contraception is way too simplistic and naive. Here's an article from a study in the British Medical Journal http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/326/7387/466/a I fully accept that poor education on sexual health is contributory but it's not the only reason for the spread of a virus like HIV. In fact the majority religion in sub-saharan Africa, where the spread of HIV has been most pronounced, is actually Islam. I have to confess though that I've no idea on their stance on contraception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 Fair enough, GK, is that God's belief, or is it Man's belief? That makes a big difference. God would have made it clear in the bible, as he wrote it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevieC@pivot Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 Religion is the cause/root of all evil. Or the excuse ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 Fair enough, GK, is that God's belief, or is it Man's belief? That makes a big difference. God would have made it clear in the bible, as he wrote it. It is written in the Bible about Peter being the chosen disciple. How that leads to papal infallibility I don't know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 It is written in the Bible about Peter being the chosen disciple. How that leads to papal infallibility I don't know! id imagine it comes from the "whatever you hold on earth i will hold in heaven" line. since the big guy is infallable so too is il papa. apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
this_is_my_story Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I've just watched the full broadcast on YouTube. A triumph of intelligence and historical truth over dogma and denial. Widdecombe's coupon at the end was a picture... and not a very pretty one at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
269miles Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Finally got round to watching the debate. There is a reason that the colleges of Oxford and Cambridge (All Souls, Christ Church, Jesus, Magdalen, Trinity, Corpus Christi and many others named for Saints) are named for Christian standards. They were founded by men of God. The church gave this country education and it will not and cannot be shamed by it. Read the teaching of Jesus. If a whole gospel is too much for you, read the Sermon on the Mount, you'll find it in Matthew chapters 5-7. If you've not got a bible you can read it here: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%205&version=TNIV The church of which I am a Pastor gave away 20% of it's income last year to charities, to projects, to good causes, many thousands of pounds. I am taking a group of 15 to Rwanda next year (including 10 teenagers) to work with a church in Kigali who run projects helping widows and orphans of the genocide, including a project harvesting geranium oil and a nursery and primary school. I believe that whilst the Roman Catholic Church has not always or even often been a force for good, the catholic church and particularly the teaching of Jesus has been and continues to be a force for good. Christianity in it's purest form, untainted by the greed or corruption of man, is undoubtedly a force for good. (One of the things I'm hoping to do when I go to Rwanda is take a bag of Hearts tops with me for the kids in the local area, so I'll be badgering you to send me your tops from this season, and previous seasons, in May. I'm not going until the end of August so there's plenty of time) I'd also like to invite you to my church this Sunday, I'm preaching so you can come and heckle me! We start at 10.30am in Linlithgow Academy. Come and worship! They did not. 'Education' aka knowledge lay in the hands of the few ie the church. Knowledge is not education. The RC church is stuck to a dogma that is indefensible on so many levels. Ultimately : the Pope or Steven Fry ? What enriches your life ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 They did not. 'Education' aka knowledge lay in the hands of the few ie the church. Knowledge is not education. The RC church is stuck to a dogma that is indefensible on so many levels. Ultimately : the Pope or Steven Fry ? What enriches your life ? This sort of question is what the St Johnstone option was invented for on KB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
this_is_my_story Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 They did not. 'Education' aka knowledge lay in the hands of the few ie the church. Knowledge is not education. The RC church is stuck to a dogma that is indefensible on so many levels. Ultimately : the Pope or Stephen Fry ? What enriches your life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wibble Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Having read much of what what the Doctor has written over time I now acknowledge that some Churches do some great work - his seems like a shining light as the work he has described sounds brilliant. Within the catholic church there are enlightened priests who perform similar work and there are communities who do great deeds. The problem with the catholic church is that it exists with an aim of maintaining the status quo. Keep the believers dumb and dependent. At the top end the catholic church has refused to tackle all of the hideous abuses of power that some of their priests have committed. They have ignored solid scientific evidence of many things and quite simply been capitalistic pigs when it comes to making cash from their thousands of business interests. The over-riding impression you get of the catholic church is that it is no more compassionate about human beings than Enron, Nike or Halliburton. Disgusting organisation and should have been the subject of government investigation for hundreds of different reasons. Leaders of religion gain power over vulnerable people, unfortunately that power corrupts many, many people and the crimes that employees of the catholic church have committed are some of the most hideous crimes on the planet. The leaders of that church have actively sought to cover up those crimes and protect the perpetrators. Shut the ****ers down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maple Leaf Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 The Roman Catholic church has admitted that children were raped by members of their clergy. They have admitted that the rapes involved thousands of children in dozens of countries, and took place over many decades. Documents have been produced that prove that the church knew about the rapes, and developed a policy of trying to hide the incidents. Every bishop in the world received a warning that any member of the clergy who spoke publicly about the raping of children by priests would be excommunicated, the severest punishment the church can impose. The architect of the cover-up policy was Cardinal Ratzinger, who was subsequently rewarded by his peers by being elected Pope. In view of the above, how can there possibly be a debate that the Roman Catholic church is a force for good? Whatever good they may have done is cancelled out by their systemic rape of children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tynie b Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 The Roman Catholic church has admitted that children were raped by members of their clergy. They have admitted that the rapes involved thousands of children in dozens of countries, and took place over many decades. Documents have been produced that prove that the church knew about the rapes, and developed a policy of trying to hide the incidents. Every bishop in the world received a warning that any member of the clergy who spoke publicly about the raping of children by priests would be excommunicated, the severest punishment the church can impose. The architect of the cover-up policy was Cardinal Ratzinger, who was subsequently rewarded by his peers by being elected Pope. In view of the above, how can there possibly be a debate that the Roman Catholic church is a force for good? Whatever good they may have done is cancelled out by their systemic rape of children. Top Post Maple Leaf! There you have it in one single post...The Catholic Church IS EVIL and Outdated...I Personally believe MOST Religions are the same...Religions like Mormon, Jehovahs Witness, "Scientology" (If you can call that a religion) I believe these are Cults. Most people who "Follow" these "Religions" do so because they have something in their past they want to hide, SO, Following a made up entity, who will forgive ALL sins, That gives these Freaks and perverts a way out!! Other religions, Penticostal , CoS, CoE, Presbitarian...I don't even know the difference between these churches, and TBH I couldn't care less,They Follow supposedly the same Made Up Person and his made up Son...If they're the same "People, Things" why do we need so MANY made up Religions??? Reason, the leaders of each Church want to make as much money out of the Mugs that follow possible...I don't mean the plebs in the pulpits, I mean the ones at the Top...Cardinals, Archbishops, Whatever the **** they call themselves... Still, If it gives them a point to their lives then kick on...As long as they're not HURTING anybody...OR Coming to my F****** Door and trying to talk they're S**** to me on MY doorstep!! Rant Over...ALL Religion is EVIL!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seats Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Top Post Maple Leaf! There you have it in one single post...The Catholic Church IS EVIL and Outdated...I Personally believe MOST Religions are the same...Religions like Mormon, Jehovahs Witness, "Scientology" (If you can call that a religion) I believe these are Cults. Most people who "Follow" these "Religions" do so because they have something in their past they want to hide, SO, Following a made up entity, who will forgive ALL sins, That gives these Freaks and perverts a way out!! Other religions, Penticostal , CoS, CoE, Presbitarian...I don't even know the difference between these churches, and TBH I couldn't care less,They Follow supposedly the same Made Up Person and his made up Son...If they're the same "People, Things" why do we need so MANY made up Religions??? Reason, the leaders of each Church want to make as much money out of the Mugs that follow possible...I don't mean the plebs in the pulpits, I mean the ones at the Top...Cardinals, Archbishops, Whatever the **** they call themselves... Still, If it gives them a point to their lives then kick on...As long as they're not HURTING anybody...OR Coming to my F****** Door and trying to talk they're S**** to me on MY doorstep!! Rant Over...ALL Religion is EVIL!!! Even the Church of Tynecastle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tynie b Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Even the Church of Tynecastle? I believe that Satan is running our Club...So, Maybe Aye, We're Evil as well...Unfortunately Madfud is NOT Made Up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seats Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I believe that Satan is running our Club...So, Maybe Aye, We're Evil as well...Unfortunately Madfud is NOT Made Up!! Aye, not a lot to worship at the moment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy.C Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 In very gereral terms, there are a lot of people within the RC church that work tirelessly to try and do good, but are hindered and stopped by the very structure of the organisation they try to serve. Unfortunately there are also a very large number of people that absolutely abuse the position and stature of the church they serve...going right to the top echelons of the place. So (again, very generally), to say the RC church is 'rotten to the core' would be a fair call, as there are simply far too many instances of crime/abuse committed in the churches name to go unheeded. At the same time, it would be wrong to tar everyone involved with the church with that brush. It seems under one roof you have people at total opposite ends of the human spectrum, with rapists and the like under the same banner as that of some of the finest humanitarians working today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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