Why did the Germans hate the Jews?

[Gambo]

Back in the days of the war, what was it the Jews did wrong to have the Germans wanting them wiped from the face of the earth?

 

A genuine question that no-one at my workplace could answer when it came up in conversation.

 

We all knew the history of the concentration camps etc, but why was this done, what did they do wrong?

[lewis2006]

Because they were Jewish???

[alwaysthereinspirit]

This thread could get interesting.

[cosanostra]

Jews were thought of as the only people with money in the massive economic depression after WW1, where Germany was made to suffer. France was especially keen to see Germany kept on it's knees and demanded astronomical financial reparations from Germany as an admission of guilt that they caused WW1. The German working classes suffered the most and the country was held in poverty by the league of nations' French inspired grip. Many Germans were literally starving to the extent that they grew crops in city centre parks and were forced to hand over their jewellery and gold teeth to survive. Bitterness and resentment of Jews who came from wealthier families was common. Even before that, there was suspicion of Jews. Less educated people feared what was different and conspiracy theories of Jews running the media, big business etc were popular.

Also, there were old wives tales about Jewish magic and sorcery that some people still believed.

 

I'm no expert on this stuff, I just remember reading all that in Higher history.

[Gambo]

Jews were thought of as the only people with money in the massive economic depression after WW1, where Germany was made to suffer. France was especially keen to see Germany kept on it's knees and demanded astronomical financial reparations from Germany as an admission of guilt that they caused WW1. The German working classes suffered the most and the country was held in poverty by the league of nations French inspired grip. Many Germans were literally starving to the extent that they grew crops in city centre parks and were forced to hand over their jewellery and gold teeth to survive. Bitterness and resentment of Jews who came from wealthier families was common. Even before that, there was suspicion of Jews. Less educated people feared what was different and conspiracy theoris of Jews running the media, big business etc were popular.

Also, there were old wives tales about Jewish magic and sorcery that some people still believed.

 

I'm no expert on this stuff, I just remember reading all that in Higher history.

 

Thanks for that.

[boabyarsebiscuit]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_antisemitism

[Miller Jambo 60]

Thanks for that.

 

TBH the Germans did not like a lot of nations and Britain was one.

Very true that the poor jews were treated the worst out of all the people affected by Hitler.

Still dont understand how the world stood back and let it happen.

[Boris]

Should the question not really be "Why did the Nazi's hate the Jews?" rather than the Germans per se?

 

What Cosa says about the economic hardship of the Weimar era is something that helped fuel, or rather gave the Nazi anti-semetism some credence, but it wasn't the main reason (imho) given that it would require someone to actually blame the Jews in the first place (i.e. the Nazis) rather than some perverse logic whereby people are starving and all of a sudden there is a conclusion that it must be the Jews fault. Why not catholics or protestants or communists or fascists? So what I'm saying is that economic conditions gave the Nazi's an excuse to exploit their anti-semetic tripe.

[cosanostra]

TBH the Germans did not like a lot of nations and Britain was one.

Very true that the poor jews were treated the worst out of all the people affected by Hitler.

Still dont understand how the world stood back and let it happen.

 

I think they were so financially poor and depressed after WW1 that France, Britain and the US could barely manage themselves let alone keep Germany under the state of lockdown and oppression that they had previously.

[southside1874]

You have to go back to the start of the christian catholic church. When the romans started debating the new religion (christian) then it dawned on them that they where actually responsible for killing him(Jesus and crucified). They thought they better put a slant (lie) on the story so they said that Pilot(born in Scotland apparently) gave the jews the choice of the baddy (barabas) or the good guy (jesus). The actual choice was between Jesus and James(Jesus's brother). After the fall of the roman empire and the start of the roman religion, the muslims gained control of the "holy land" and the jews started to move through europe carrying the tale about the real story of jesus christ. This was no good to the romans so they persecuted them and drummed into our head they where bad folk and not to be trusted. After the crusades the Templars knew of the real story and hence they got chased and burned etc etc. Now we already have it in our heads that the Jews are bad. Now because of some religious thing and banking the jews became quite good at loaning money and commerce. When Germany was brought to its knees because of the first world war payments again it was easy to point the finger at the jews and to get all their money and property without too many folk bothering.

 

Jewish people are still today amongst the richest in the world and have a major say in the world economy.

 

Hope it helps, its very brief.

[Hickups]

The Germans didn't hate anyone.

 

The Nazis did though.

 

The nazi's hated, gypsies, disabled people, communists, catholics, homosexuals, blacks, alot of people were murdered by the nazi's, not just the jews.

[Gambo]

Should the question not really be "Why did the Nazi's hate the Jews?" rather than the Germans per se?

 

 

Probably.

[Miller Jambo 60]

I think they were so financially poor and depressed after WW1 that France, Britain and the US could barely manage themselves let alone keep Germany under the state of lockdown and oppression that they had previously.

 

Probably correct in what you say mate.

Just when i watch the Documentries on the death camps it makes me weep as how these poor people were left on their own to die.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

TBH the Germans did not like a lot of nations and Britain was one.

Very true that the poor jews were treated the worst out of all the people affected by Hitler.

Still dont understand how the world stood back and let it happen.

 

"CANT SEE IT FROM MY HOUSE"

 

The mass murder of people will never be allowed to happen again. Or so we were told.

Since then we've had

Rwanda, Yugoslavia, Sudan, Cambodia and probably more.

We're a strange breed of animal Miller.

[jamboinglasgow]

Jews were thought of as the only people with money in the massive economic depression after WW1, where Germany was made to suffer. France was especially keen to see Germany kept on it's knees and demanded astronomical financial reparations from Germany as an admission of guilt that they caused WW1. The German working classes suffered the most and the country was held in poverty by the league of nations' French inspired grip. Many Germans were literally starving to the extent that they grew crops in city centre parks and were forced to hand over their jewellery and gold teeth to survive. Bitterness and resentment of Jews who came from wealthier families was common. Even before that, there was suspicion of Jews. Less educated people feared what was different and conspiracy theories of Jews running the media, big business etc were popular.

Also, there were old wives tales about Jewish magic and sorcery that some people still believed.

 

I'm no expert on this stuff, I just remember reading all that in Higher history.

 

Very good.

 

It runs deeper, Jews have always been the scapegoat of Europe and it streches back so many years (certainly the medieval period onwards.) Part of it may be to do with the fact the Jews were a people without a home and though they settled in many parts of Europe, as they were not the same religion as those areas, and mainly because the bible was structured to put the blame on Jews for Jesus caputure and death while making the Romans out as reluctant but with no choice at actually doing the act (this had a big part to do with early Christian writters trying to apease the Romans so they made out as this.)

 

The whole money lending jew/rich jew came from medieval society where money lending was banned for Christians but they allowed Jews to do it. Any leading authority of a town who was in danger of defaulting on his debts or wanting money would simply accuse the Jewish money lender of doing something unspeakable (I did a dissertation for uni last year about a thirteenth century chronicler, and he had many regular mentions of young christian boys being kidnapped by Jews, forced to be circumcised and then a ritual happened when the Jews either drank the boys blood or ate him as worship. This was of course complete nosense but people believed that Jews did that.

 

One big issue for the Germans (and even sadly today) was a document known as "the protocols of the elders of Zion." This was a document that appeared at the begining of the 20th century claiming that it was written by a meeting of Rabbi's. It was a detailed list establishing the goals and aims of the Jewish people. The main goal being the taking over the world by the Jews. Through money, poltics they would undermine the world to achieve their ultimate goal. Of course the document is false. It can be traced to a short story by a French writer in the mid-1800s. Then it changed into becoming fact. But it was held in high regard in Russia and then in Germany. After the events of WWI, it became clear to Germans that this was happening and the Jews were trying to take over (which they weren't.) So this false document was a powerful tool that caused great suffering for the Jews. Sad thing is that people around the world still believe it. In fact it is taught to all children in Palestinian schools.

[P-Dizzle]

Should the question not really be "Why did the Nazi's hate the Jews?" rather than the Germans per se?

 

 

No, there is no way you can create that form of hate without a basis. The everyday German had reason to hate the jews (in their eyes)

 

They were seen as money grabbing and selfish. There was an underlying hatred before the GWP started convincing the people who had been hit by the depression. The Jews were something you could target as a focus of aggression as they didnt seem to be hit as hard as the people who were being forced out jobs. It was something you could see walking down a street. There was a dislike of the jews already... the GWP and then to be Nazis just fueled the fire.

 

I can say without doubt, that if I was a working class german in those times. I would have voted for the Nazis.

[P-Dizzle]

"CANT SEE IT FROM MY HOUSE"

 

The mass murder of people will never be allowed to happen again. Or so we were told.

Since then we've had

Rwanda, Yugoslavia, Sudan, Cambodia and probably more.

We're a strange breed of animal Miller.

 

Add China to that list and increase the numbers killed tenfold...

[cosanostra]

Very good.

 

It runs deeper, Jews have always been the scapegoat of Europe and it streches back so many years (certainly the medieval period onwards.) Part of it may be to do with the fact the Jews were a people without a home and though they settled in many parts of Europe, as they were not the same religion as those areas, and mainly because the bible was structured to put the blame on Jews for Jesus caputure and death while making the Romans out as reluctant but with no choice at actually doing the act (this had a big part to do with early Christian writters trying to apease the Romans so they made out as this.)

 

The whole money lending jew/rich jew came from medieval society where money lending was banned for Christians but they allowed Jews to do it. Any leading authority of a town who was in danger of defaulting on his debts or wanting money would simply accuse the Jewish money lender of doing something unspeakable (I did a dissertation for uni last year about a thirteenth century chronicler, and he had many regular mentions of young christian boys being kidnapped by Jews, forced to be circumcised and then a ritual happened when the Jews either drank the boys blood or ate him as worship. This was of course complete nosense but people believed that Jews did that.

 

One big issue for the Germans (and even sadly today) was a document known as "the protocols of the elders of Zion." This was a document that appeared at the begining of the 20th century claiming that it was written by a meeting of Rabbi's. It was a detailed list establishing the goals and aims of the Jewish people. The main goal being the taking over the world by the Jews. Through money, poltics they would undermine the world to achieve their ultimate goal. Of course the document is false. It can be traced to a short story by a French writer in the mid-1800s. Then it changed into becoming fact. But it was held in high regard in Russia and then in Germany. After the events of WWI, it became clear to Germans that this was happening and the Jews were trying to take over (which they weren't.) So this false document was a powerful tool that caused great suffering for the Jews. Sad thing is that people around the world still believe it. In fact it is taught to all children in Palestinian schools.

 

You clearly know a lot more about this sort of thing than me.

 

The jewish money lender reputation must have been around, even in the UK as Shakespeare wrote The Merchant of Venice in the 16th century. The Shylock / pound of flesh story is known to everyone now.

 

Also, I noticed in that film Borat that was out a couple of years ago, Borat made some mention of Jews having horns. This sort of demonic, monsterous depiction of Jews that Baren Cohen was parodying clearly still happens in some parts of the world.

[P-Dizzle]

Very good.

 

One big issue for the Germans (and even sadly today) was a document known as "the protocols of the elders of Zion." This was a document that appeared at the begining of the 20th century claiming that it was written by a meeting of Rabbi's. It was a detailed list establishing the goals and aims of the Jewish people. The main goal being the taking over the world by the Jews. Through money, poltics they would undermine the world to achieve their ultimate goal. Of course the document is false. It can be traced to a short story by a French writer in the mid-1800s. Then it changed into becoming fact. But it was held in high regard in Russia and then in Germany. After the events of WWI, it became clear to Germans that this was happening and the Jews were trying to take over (which they weren't.) So this false document was a powerful tool that caused great suffering for the Jews. Sad thing is that people around the world still believe it. In fact it is taught to all children in Palestinian schools.

 

I remember learning this in History. Although I thought the writer was a Russian who lived in france? Mativ Golvinski. You clearly know alot about it but am I mistaken?

[269miles]

The Jews have been blamed for the world's ills since the dawn of time.

Poland and Russia were every bit as bad as the Nazis although the Nazis took it to a new level in their attempts to exterminate them.

 

Hitler used the Jews as an excuse for Germany's disastrous economc state following the signing of the Versailles treaty which meant Germany was left in dire poverty and paying punitive reparations for WW1. In his eyes it was all about a Zionist conspiracy.

 

The UK actually led the way in the awful treatment of Jews ; in the middle ages they were all expelled from the UK to Portugal. Even by the time of Shakespear (and his Jewish Shylock) there were no Jews in England.

so how he could write about Jews is still a nystery but it proved how strong the stereotyping was down the ages.

[Boris]

No, there is no way you can create that form of hate without a basis. The everyday German had reason to hate the jews (in their eyes)

 

They were seen as money grabbing and selfish. There was an underlying hatred before the GWP started convincing the people who had been hit by the depression. The Jews were something you could target as a focus of aggression as they didnt seem to be hit as hard as the people who were being forced out jobs. It was something you could see walking down a street. There was a dislike of the jews already... the GWP and then to be Nazis just fueled the fire.

 

Which is what I said more or less. I never intended my point to say that anti-semitism never existed in Germany prior to the Nazi's - that would be obtuse, however the point I was trying to make was that it was the NAzi's who exploited anti-semitism to their own ends and I think actually turned more people against the Jews than would "normally" have been anti-semitic.

 

I can say without doubt, that if I was a working class german in those times. I would have voted for the Nazis.

 

Really? That's quite scary.

[billco98]

Sad thing is that people around the world still believe it. In fact it is taught to all children in Palestinian schools.

 

The even sadder thing is that Hitler's legacy is the price the Palestinians have paid and continue to pay for the Holocaust, something they had no part in.

 

The 'hate' word is banded about on this board with abandon. I was taught as a youngster in the fifties the real meaning and power of the word and to virtually consign it to the dust bin of my vocabulary.

 

'Hate' leads to the gas chambers of Auschwitz, the internecine blood letting on the street of Northern Ireland, the carnage in Balkans, etc. etc.

[P-Dizzle]

 

Hitler used the Jews as an excuse for Germany's disastrous economc state following the signing of the Versailles treaty which meant Germany was left in dire poverty and paying punitive reparations for WW1. In his eyes it was all about a Zionist conspiracy.

 

The reason for the economic ****storm that Germany was in was because the Democratic government borrowed huge sums of money from USA which was riding high on the stock market, and when that crashed. So did Germany

 

 

 

Really? That's quite scary.

 

Im not saying I harbour their views, what I was trying to say is that the circumstances in Germany were so bad that decent people would vote for them. I was trying to say that I can sympathize with the normal German people who were living in fear.

[jamboinglasgow]

I remember learning this in History. Although I thought the writer was a Russian who lived in france? Mativ Golvinski. You clearly know alot about it but am I mistaken?

 

got my facts a little wrong. It was a story written in 1868 by Sir John Retcliffe (a nom de plume of a German journalist called Hermann Goedsche.) He wrote novels under his pseudonym. The one, Biarritz, described a meeting in a Jewish Graveyard in Prague, where thirteen hooded figures representing the twelve tribes of Israel and one for the exiles meet. Each one represents a different method with which the Jews will reach their ultimate goal. So one is taking the best argicultural land, one gets all the gold, one controls the press, one undermines the church and so on.

 

After that story was printed it changed, in 1872 it was in a Russian pamphlet and though it said the story was fiction, it claimed it was representive of the truth. In France in 1881 it was given as a speech from just one rabbi. In 1891 it appeared in a newspaper in Odessa where it claimed that this was said at the congress of Reform Judaism eight years previous. And it went on. The pseudonym of the author became at different points, the name of rabbi and the name of the unfortunate person who discovered this plot but died after devulging it.

 

As I say, its depressing that there are people in the world who still believe it is real and teach children this.

[Therapist]

Back in the days of the war, what was it the Jews did wrong to have the Germans wanting them wiped from the face of the earth?

 

Hitler held a deep seated belief that international Jewry was to blame for Germany's defeat and subsequent humiliation in WW1. These feelings got seriously out of control culminating in the extermination camps.

 

Having said that, Jews have been pilloried, ostracised and discriminated against throughout history........Germany was simply the latest in a long line of countries and societies to take exception to them, albeit they put thoughts into apocalyptic action.

[Diego10]

the money lending thing comes down to the practice of ursury, which forbade Christians, not from lending money but from charging interest on it. Ironically enough it's also forbidden in the Torah (and Koran), but different interpretaions were applied by some on whether this meant Jews could charge interest on loans to non-Jews.

 

Anti-Semitism in Europe has a long, long history and Hitler and the Nazi's exploitation of it to blame Jews, many of whom were prosperous but just as many were not, for Germany's ills suffered in the aftermath of the Versailles treaty was the extreme end of a persecution that had lasted for many hundreds of years across the continent. Plenty countries that were occupied by the Nazi's took their opportunity to get in on the act of wiping them out.

[The Doctor]

They thought they better put a slant (lie) on the story so they said that Pilot(born in Scotland apparently) gave the jews the choice of the baddy (barabas) or the good guy (jesus). The actual choice was between Jesus and James(Jesus's brother).

 

I've never heard this in 20 years of studying the Christian faith, may I ask for a source? The gospels were written before the Roman Empire adopted Christianity so your assertion that the Roman Catholic Church changed the gospel to make the Jews look worse and the Romans look better makes no sense. Why doesn't the Greek Orthodox Church or the Ethiopian church teach this?

[Boris]

I've never heard this in 20 years of studying the Christian faith, may I ask for a source? The gospels were written before the Roman Empire adopted Christianity so your assertion that the Roman Catholic Church changed the gospel to make the Jews look worse and the Romans look better makes no sense. Why doesn't the Greek Orthodox Church or the Ethiopian church teach this?

 

I also read somewhere that Barabass is Aramaic for messiah too, so that basically at the trial the Jews were offered the military leader (Barabass) or the political leader (Jesus) and we know who they picked.

 

I've not heard the James the Just or Jesus offer though.

[southside1874]

Very good.

 

It runs deeper, Jews have always been the scapegoat of Europe and it streches back so many years (certainly the medieval period onwards.) Part of it may be to do with the fact the Jews were a people without a home and though they settled in many parts of Europe, as they were not the same religion as those areas, and mainly because the bible was structured to put the blame on Jews for Jesus caputure and death while making the Romans out as reluctant but with no choice at actually doing the act (this had a big part to do with early Christian writters trying to apease the Romans so they made out as this.)

 

The whole money lending jew/rich jew came from medieval society where money lending was banned for Christians but they allowed Jews to do it. Any leading authority of a town who was in danger of defaulting on his debts or wanting money would simply accuse the Jewish money lender of doing something unspeakable (I did a dissertation for uni last year about a thirteenth century chronicler, and he had many regular mentions of young christian boys being kidnapped by Jews, forced to be circumcised and then a ritual happened when the Jews either drank the boys blood or ate him as worship. This was of course complete nosense but people believed that Jews did that.

 

One big issue for the Germans (and even sadly today) was a document known as "the protocols of the elders of Zion." This was a document that appeared at the begining of the 20th century claiming that it was written by a meeting of Rabbi's. It was a detailed list establishing the goals and aims of the Jewish people. The main goal being the taking over the world by the Jews. Through money, poltics they would undermine the world to achieve their ultimate goal. Of course the document is false. It can be traced to a short story by a French writer in the mid-1800s. Then it changed into becoming fact. But it was held in high regard in Russia and then in Germany. After the events of WWI, it became clear to Germans that this was happening and the Jews were trying to take over (which they weren't.) So this false document was a powerful tool that caused great suffering for the Jews. Sad thing is that people around the world still believe it. In fact it is taught to all children in Palestinian schools.

 

Thats what I was trying to write earlier, but never had enough time or brains to come out as eloquent:smiley2:

[Miller Jambo 60]

Hitler held a deep seated belief that international Jewry was to blame for Germany's defeat and subsequent humiliation in WW1. These feelings got seriously out of control culminating in the extermination camps.

 

Having said that, Jews have been pilloried, ostracised and discriminated against throughout history........Germany was simply the latest in a long line of countries and societies to take exception to them, albeit they put thoughts into apocalyptic action.

 

They certainly put their thoughts in to action.

Without a doubt mate.

[The Doctor]

I also read somewhere that Barabass is Aramaic for messiah too, so that basically at the trial the Jews were offered the military leader (Barabass) or the political leader (Jesus) and we know who they picked.

 

I've not heard the James the Just or Jesus offer though.

 

Barabbas means son of Abba, Abba is Aramaic for Daddy, it's an affectionate name for Father.

 

Barabbas is the son of a father, or 'any man'. Who he was historically is anybody's guess, but it says in the scriptures that he led a rebellion and was a murderer. As a rebel he was probably popular with local Jews.

 

Jesus died and Barabbas went free, Jesus died so that 'any man', anyone, could be free.

[I.J]

The Jewish population were notorious early risers at the time of the war, and used to get to the shops early to buy up all the Um Bongo supplies.

 

Having little or no Um Bungo angered the Germans who were forced to make do with Panda Pops instead.

 

The end result was inevitable.

[djf]

TBH the Germans did not like a lot of nations and Britain was one.

Very true that the poor jews were treated the worst out of all the people affected by Hitler.

Still dont understand how the world stood back and let it happen.

 

In places like North Korea and DR of Congo equal atrocities are still happening as the vast majority of the world sits back and watches the X-Factor.

[P-Dizzle]

The Jewish population were notorious early risers at the time of the war, and used to get to the shops early to buy up all the Um Bongo supplies.

 

Having little or no Um Bungo angered the Germans who were forced to make do with Panda Pops instead.

 

The end result was inevitable.

 

[Sheriff Fatman]

I also read somewhere that Barabass is Aramaic for messiah too, so that basically at the trial the Jews were offered the military leader (Barabass) or the political leader (Jesus) and we know who they picked.

 

I've not heard the James the Just or Jesus offer though.

 

Barabbas means 'son of the father' bar abba or 'son of the teacher' bar rabban. Messiah meant annointed one, and there are hundreds of messiahs in Jewish history, any political, military or religious leader was a 'messiah', including Herod.

[Guest King]

In our History class at school years ago we got told most of the above reasons on why the Nazis hated the Jews. However, the one that sticks in my mind is that Hitler caught an STD of a jewish prostitute in Vienna.

 

Heres the story:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-463391/Did-Hitler-unleash-Holocaust-Jewish-prostitute-gave-syphilis.html

[Patrick Bateman]

You have to go back to the start of the christian catholic church.

 

I think you'll find the Romans were persecuting the Jews long before JC arrived on the scene...

[Therapist]

I think you'll find the Romans were persecuting the Jews long before JC arrived on the scene...

 

Correct. The Greeks were at it too.

[Professor.Arturo]

I recall reading that in Hitlers younger days, when he was an aspiring artist, and quite some time before he became political, that most of the art dealers and galleries in Vienna were Jewish or Jewish owned. All bar none rejected his work, maybe that sew the seeds, a year or so after his 21st birthday he travelled to Germany and got involved with anti-communist groups.

[Miller Jambo 60]

In places like North Korea and DR of Congo equal atrocities are still happening as the vast majority of the world sits back and watches the X-Factor.

 

No me, cant stand the X -Factor, but i know what you mean.

Thing is going in to N Korea could cos a lot of things to kick off.

[Sheriff Fatman]

I've never heard this in 20 years of studying the Christian faith, may I ask for a source? The gospels were written before the Roman Empire adopted Christianity so your assertion that the Roman Catholic Church changed the gospel to make the Jews look worse and the Romans look better makes no sense. Why doesn't the Greek Orthodox Church or the Ethiopian church teach this?

 

The Greek Orthodox split from the Roman Catholic Church well after the the Romans Empire, in fact about 600 years after. The Ethiopian Church is a Coptic Church that split from the Latin See in 451, but had been very much a part of the process that Romanised the early church during the First Council of Nicaea, The First Council of Constantinople and the Council of Ephesus.

[shaun.lawson]

In our History class at school years ago we got told most of the above reasons on why the Nazis hated the Jews. However, the one that sticks in my mind is that Hitler caught an STD of a jewish prostitute in Vienna.

 

Heres the story:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-463391/Did-Hitler-unleash-Holocaust-Jewish-prostitute-gave-syphilis.html

 

Mmm. When he was seriously wounded during the First World War, wasn't he also treated by a Jewish nurse, who he blamed when he didn't completely recover?

 

Of course, he had to have a deeply unhinged personality in the first place, and had to have anti-semitic feeling throughout Europe to tap into in order to put his views into practice. Plenty of other circumstances - Versailles, reparations, the horribly fragile Weimar Republic, the Great Depression - combined as well. But it's extraordinary when you realise what the impact of a chance event in someone's life can occasionally have in history.

 

For example: if Henry VIII's first born child had been a son, would any of the schism with Rome, Bloody Mary, Cromwell, 1689, the tragic history of Ireland, The Troubles, sectarianism in Scotland and all the nonsense we have to put up with whenever the Old Firm come to town have actually happened?

[shaun.lawson]

You clearly know a lot more about this sort of thing than me.

 

The jewish money lender reputation must have been around, even in the UK as Shakespeare wrote The Merchant of Venice in the 16th century. The Shylock / pound of flesh story is known to everyone now.

 

Also, I noticed in that film Borat that was out a couple of years ago, Borat made some mention of Jews having horns. This sort of demonic, monsterous depiction of Jews that Baren Cohen was parodying clearly still happens in some parts of the world.

 

Yep. It was still believed in London in the 1930s too. Those Daily Mail editorials querying what persecution the Jews were fleeing from were playing on popular sentiment; as of course, was the hideous propaganda deployed in a horribly sophisticated way by the Nazis.

[Sheriff Fatman]

Correct. The Greeks were at it too.

 

Don't forget the Egyptians, the Babylonians, the Assyrians, the Persians, and quite a few other ancient civilisations. But to be fair, the Israelites and those from Judah were not exactly all cuddly bunnies when it came to other peoples either.

[Sheriff Fatman]

Yep. It was still believed in London in the 1930s too. Those Daily Mail editorials querying what persecution the Jews were fleeing from were playing on popular sentiment; as of course, was the hideous propaganda deployed in a horribly sophisticated way by the Nazis.

 

 

Don't forget that the Daily Mail at one time supported Hitler, so they were more likely to be readily taken in by the propoganda.

[southside1874]

I've never heard this in 20 years of studying the Christian faith, may I ask for a source? The gospels were written before the Roman Empire adopted Christianity so your assertion that the Roman Catholic Church changed the gospel to make the Jews look worse and the Romans look better makes no sense. Why doesn't the Greek Orthodox Church or the Ethiopian church teach this?

 

Its the barabas thing thats deliberately misinterpreted. As its been pointed out barabas means messiah. James was also thought of the messiah, he was the head of some religious sect. The Romans asked if the people wanted James barabas or Jesus barabas.

 

the interpretations of the gospels are flawed.

 

For instance, if you said Csaba Laslo could make a silk purse out of a pigs ear. Back in Hungary they would probably think its a miracle, but I would know you meant he took a load of players destined for a bottom six finish into a third place finish.

 

Jesus making wine out of water was the same context.

[Sheriff Fatman]

Its the barabas thing thats deliberately misinterpreted. As its been pointed out barabas means messiah.

 

No it hasn't, and no it never did.

[Boris]

 

For example: if Henry VIII's first born child had been a son, would any of the schism with Rome, Bloody Mary, Cromwell, 1689, the tragic history of Ireland, The Troubles, sectarianism in Scotland and all the nonsense we have to put up with whenever the Old Firm come to town have actually happened?

 

Anglocentric post imho.

 

Yes because Scotland was a Presbyterian as oppose to Anglican.

 

Scotland didn't need Henry VIII to split from Rome.

[shaun.lawson]

Don't forget that the Daily Mail at one time supported Hitler, so they were more likely to be readily taken in by the propoganda.

 

There was probably a significant tranche of opinion in Britain which regarded Hitler as a legitimate Versailles revisionist. The establishment in both countries had close connections going back a long, long way: and Germany was seen as so civilised, they couldn't possibly get up to anything that untoward. The international publicity surrounding Reichskristallnacht in November 1938 began to change that view; Hitler's behaviour in March 1939 did much of the rest.

 

Actually, it's precisely because Germany, of all nations, was responsible for the Holocaust that its impact remains so powerful. When horrible tragedies unfold in Africa, say, we tend to shrug our shoulders: this is no doubt racist, but I guess our feeling tends to be that, for complex reasons, Africa doesn't have the history of civil society enabling it to enjoy political stability. But Germany certainly does; and if it happened there, it could happen anywhere.

[southside1874]

Mmm. When he was seriously wounded during the First World War, wasn't he also treated by a Jewish nurse, who he blamed when he didn't completely recover?

 

Of course, he had to have a deeply unhinged personality in the first place, and had to have anti-semitic feeling throughout Europe to tap into in order to put his views into practice. Plenty of other circumstances - Versailles, reparations, the horribly fragile Weimar Republic, the Great Depression - combined as well. But it's extraordinary when you realise what the impact of a chance event in someone's life can occasionally have in history.

 

For example: if Henry VIII's first born child had been a son, would any of the schism with Rome, Bloody Mary, Cromwell, 1689, the tragic history of Ireland, The Troubles, sectarianism in Scotland and all the nonsense we have to put up with whenever the Old Firm come to town have actually happened?

 

I'm afraid so Shaun, the first fall out with Rome happened when Robert the Bruce killed the Red Comyn at Dumfries Abbey. Just before the persecution of the Templars.