It was ten years ago today

[shaun.lawson]

An event which I still regard as pivotal in leading us to where we are now. The Scottish Media Group bought ?3.5m worth of shares, and put a further ?4.5m in by way of convertible loan stock. Unfortunately, for reasons which remain entirely unfathomable, the club assumed SMG would convert this ?4.5m into shares, so spent the full ?8m pretty quickly on transfer fees, wages, signing on fees, new contracts and - a good move this, at least - the academy; but by the end of that very season, it was pretty obvious they wouldn't. Hence the cost cutting which followed; hence the skyrocketing debt; hence the inevitable decision (accompanied with lies from our much loved Chief Executive) to put Tynecastle up for sale when SMG formally confirmed they wanted their money back in November 2003.

 

Of course, we were already overstretching as it was; but the SMG deal - or rather, the clueless way in which the club handled it and allocated the money - gave us the decisive push. The curious thing is how excited almost all of us were when it was announced: most of us thought we were suddenly rich, could close the gap on the OF, and open an insurmountable one up on the rest. But most of the players we targeted wouldn't join; we wasted much of the rest; and by Summer 2000, it was all too clear it had amounted to a Fool's Paradise.

 

To his eternal credit, Leslie Deans resigned from the board when the deal was announced. Rather less to his credit, he maintained a pedantic war of words with Chris Robinson in the years which followed, which often did more harm than good; but it is absolutely incredible that no-one else on the board appeared to consider even for a moment that SMG wouldn't convert their loan. I've often suspected that Robinson jumped at it in order to thwart takeover plans Deans was trying to arrange at the time: a case, sadly, of personal enmity doing enormous long-term damage to the club.

 

Looking back, it's bizarre that so many of us thought that ?8m would make such a huge difference anyway. This was a time of post-Bosman inflationary madness in football, with both Rangers and Celtic spending crazy amounts of money, and rapidly disappearing over the horizon. An example, I'm afraid, of the club having wholly unrealisable dreams beyond our station in life. The much missed NIT queried what the consequences might be; so did Jim Traynor. But that was pretty much it - and worst of all, the man supposed to be leading us displayed zero foresight and even less leadership.

 

This was how the BBC reported it at the time:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/439517.stm

 

The reports on the page can still be downloaded, albeit the picture quality is poor. If you can stomach listening to Mr Robinson, keep an ear out for his final response to the radio interviewer: it's scary! And of course, it's particularly interesting to consider all this given the unhappiness over our present owner: Romanov may have bazillions of faults, but crucially, he's able to guarantee the debt in a way Robinson never could. And if it wasn't for how we handled the SMG deal, it's doubtful any of us would've ever heard of Romanov even now.

 

If you can remember back, what were everyone's thoughts at the time?

[Victorian]

An event which I still regard as pivotal in leading us to where we are now. The Scottish Media Group bought ?3.5m worth of shares, and put a further ?4.5m in by way of convertible loan stock. Unfortunately, for reasons which remain entirely unfathomable, the club assumed SMG would convert this ?4.5m into shares, so spent the full ?8m pretty quickly on transfer fees, wages, signing on fees, new contracts and - a good move this, at least - the academy; but by the end of that very season, it was pretty obvious they wouldn't. Hence the cost cutting which followed; hence the skyrocketing debt; hence the inevitable decision (accompanied with lies from our much loved Chief Executive) to put Tynecastle up for sale when SMG formally confirmed they wanted their money back in November 2003.

 

Of course, we were already overstretching as it was; but the SMG deal - or rather, the clueless way in which the club handled it and allocated the money - gave us the decisive push. The curious thing is how excited almost all of us were when it was announced: most of us thought we were suddenly rich, could close the gap on the OF, and open an insurmountable one up on the rest. But most of the players we targeted wouldn't join; we wasted much of the rest; and by Summer 2000, it was all too clear it had amounted to a Fool's Paradise.

 

To his eternal credit, Leslie Deans resigned from the board when the deal was announced. Rather less to his credit, he maintained a pedantic war of words with Chris Robinson in the years which followed, which often did more harm than good; but it is absolutely incredible that no-one else on the board appeared to consider even for a moment that SMG wouldn't convert their loan. I've often suspected that Robinson jumped at it in order to thwart takeover plans Deans was trying to arrange at the time: a case, sadly, of personal enmity doing enormous long-term damage to the club.

 

Looking back, it's bizarre that so many of us thought that ?8m would make such a huge difference anyway. This was a time of post-Bosman inflationary madness in football, with both Rangers and Celtic spending crazy amounts of money, and rapidly disappearing over the horizon. An example, I'm afraid, of the club having wholly unrealisable dreams beyond our station in life. The much missed NIT queried what the consequences might be; so did Jim Traynor. But that was pretty much it - and worst of all, the man supposed to be leading us displayed zero foresight and even less leadership.

 

This was how the BBC reported it at the time:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/439517.stm

 

The reports on the page can still be downloaded, albeit the picture quality is poor. If you can stomach listening to Mr Robinson, keep an ear out for his final response to the radio interviewer: it's scary! And of course, it's particularly interesting to consider all this given the unhappiness over our present owner: Romanov may have bazillions of faults, but crucially, he's able to guarantee the debt in a way Robinson never could. And if it wasn't for how we handled the SMG deal, it's doubtful any of us would've ever heard of Romanov even now.

 

If you can remember back, what were everyone's thoughts at the time?

my thoughts at the time were probably pretty much similar to most hearts fans in that we started doing cartwheels at the thought of having millions to spend on players, which in fact didn't really happen. we spent less than a million on transfer fees.

 

just a gigantic **** up of biblical proportions on the part of pieface.

 

SMG = romanov ultimately. pieface ultimately got the message and was put on to romanov in his bid to do a pontius pilate act with us (pontius pieface ).

 

perhaps the most sickening revelation to appear was that pieface invoiced HMFC for a 'finders fee' for finding the next owner.

[kingantti1874]

If there is one thing we would all love to go back and change!! What a disaster..

[Gigolo-Aunt]

Did a large part of the money not go towards Riccarton?

[Victorian]

Did a large part of the money not go towards Riccarton?

?2M i think. the rest disappeared into the abyss, niemi aside.

[Chris Evans]

Pie man doesn't even look like a businessman in this photo. What a scruff.....

 

 

[shaun.lawson]

Did a large part of the money not go towards Riccarton?

 

Yep - that was the one good bit of it! This was agreed at talks at Houston House in November 1999. What I don't understand is why, and for months afterwards, JJ was also being allowed to chase and sign players on big wages. Ringfencing a large portion of the cash on Riccarton made huge sense; spending the loan before we knew whether SMG would convert it or not made none at all.

[The Mighty Thor]

my thoughts at the time were probably pretty much similar to most hearts fans in that we started doing cartwheels at the thought of having millions to spend on players, which in fact didn't really happen. we spent less than a million on transfer fees.

 

just a gigantic **** up of biblical proportions on the part of pieface.

 

SMG = romanov ultimately. pieface ultimately got the message and was put on to romanov in his bid to do a pontius pilate act with us (pontius pieface ).

 

perhaps the most sickening revelation to appear was that pieface invoiced HMFC for a 'finders fee' for finding the next owner.

 

I think the signing of Gordan Petric put that little nugget to bed for once and for fecking all.

[pivotno1]

i believe we pay a rental for riccarton,the supposed ring fenced money for the project went elsewhere,the lieman even mucked up his best achievement at the club in my view.although to give the horrible git a bit credit its been a tremendous move for us.

[Gigolo-Aunt]

Yep - that was the one good bit of it! This was agreed at talks at Houston House in November 1999. What I don't understand is why, and for months afterwards, JJ was also being allowed to chase and sign players on big wages. Ringfencing a large portion of the cash on Riccarton made huge sense; spending the loan before we knew whether SMG would convert it or not made none at all.

 

Remember Hearts having a right good go at trying to get Lee McCulloch from Motherwell (would have been an excellent signing) - also we we tried to get Spencer Prior?

 

Niemi was the pick of the bunch we signed, we did waste a hell of a lot of money on dross though.

 

JJ I think is better suited when he wheels and deals with a more modest budget.

[Dave Ross]

The worst thing is that Robinson could never admit his mistake. Horrible, vile man. I would love to dance on his grave.

[N User]

i believe we pay a rental for riccarton,the supposed ring fenced money for the project went elsewhere,the lieman even mucked up his best achievement at the club in my view.although to give the horrible git a bit credit its been a tremendous move for us.

 

Exactly, despite having money for the bloody thing we ended up renting the youth academy.

[jambos are go!]

i believe we pay a rental for riccarton,the supposed ring fenced money for the project went elsewhere,the lieman even mucked up his best achievement at the club in my view.although to give the horrible git a bit credit its been a tremendous move for us.

 

Correct. I clearly remember CPR admitting it had been spent on other things at a General Meeting. I think this is the main reason we don't own the Academy ouright. We did not put enough money in or have the financial viability to sustain the facility. Most of the cost came from public funds including HW and the Football trust. HW stewardship means the Academy is secure.

[pivotno1]

i feel a bit like that myself dave,even having to see him sneak on the plane going to zagreb,gave me the dry boak.he proabably never even paid,the parasite,never hated anyone as much in my entire puff.

[pivotno1]

although we have a long term lease,i understand its a very loose binding contract we have,so if the uni ever wanted us out it wouldnt be to difficult. a remember a few people doing a bit digging about the supposed ring fenced money which if i remember was 4.5m,but not getting any answers.i would loved to have found out what went on with that,but a dont suppse we ever will.

[shaun.lawson]

Remember Hearts having a right good go at trying to get Lee McCulloch from Motherwell (would have been an excellent signing) - also we we tried to get Spencer Prior?

 

Niemi was the pick of the bunch we signed, we did waste a hell of a lot of money on dross though.

 

JJ I think is better suited when he wheels and deals with a more modest budget.

 

He is, I agree - but that's partly because most of his contacts involve cheaper players too. Most of the players we were after in late 1999 would've improved the team: Prior as you say, Craig Burley (fud that he is), Moussa Saib, Stan Collymore on loan, Robert Taylor and McCulloch. We kept chasing McCulloch well into 2000 - by which time, the funds for the academy had been allocated, and Robinson already knew we were losing money hand over fist. But he didn't bother telling JJ until May!

 

And, because we'd publicised to the world we were suddenly cash rich, players and agents we approached took the ****, big time; and most wouldn't join us because we were 'only Hearts', miles behind the only two Scottish clubs they'd heard of and could countenance moving to. It was a vicious circle in many ways: compounded by players already at the club losing confidence for fear of being pushed out by new signings coming in. So the team's form suffered, the fans thought JJ was terrified of spending anything, and this increased the pressure to bring players in.

 

There was even a story on here the other week that CPR insisted JJ sign Petric, because he was fed up with no-one having come in too. God knows if that had any truth in it; but as it was, the record shows that the four players we signed improved the team from lower mid-table to UEFA Cup qualifiers; but that improvement was only short-term, for no more than six months (with the estimable exception of the fantastic Niemi). Personally, I'm not all sure what JJ could've done any differently - and for me, the bottom line was that we were overstretching miles beyond what was feasible. Which at a club with only 14000 gates and already in debt in the first place could never, ever have worked.

[Martin_T]

I may be getting my chronology incorrect here, but the decision to float on the stock market prior to SMG was also equally ill considered and disastrous for the long term future of the club. That came at a time when it was fashionable for clubs to do so, as it was perceived that pay per view TV was going to be the next big thing. Prior to that we also had the disastrous share issue which was supposed to raise a few million, but ended up raising something like ?250,000.

 

Robinson's whole tenure at Hearts was pretty disastrous to be honest, over a period of 10 years the clubs debt rose by 400%, all for one cup win, two new stands and the lease of a training facility. Worth it? Easy to say with hindsight right enough, but there is barely one decision he made in business sense that was not called into question at the time.

[shaun.lawson]

I may be getting my chronology incorrect here, but the decision to float on the stock market prior to SMG was also equally ill considered and disastrous for the long term future of the club. That came at a time when it was fashionable for clubs to do so, as it was perceived that pay per view TV was going to be the next big thing. Prior to that we also had the disastrous share issue which was supposed to raise a few million, but ended up raising something like ?250,000.

 

Robinson's whole tenure at Hearts was pretty disastrous to be honest, over a period of 10 years the clubs debt rose by 400%, all for one cup win, two new stands and the lease of a training facility. Worth it? Easy to say with hindsight right enough, but there is barely one decision he made in business sense that was not called into question at the time.

 

You're entirely correct - it was mad! And driven by ego as much as anything. "Look at us: we're on the Stock Market!" Crazy really. The one good, long lasting thing Robinson did was renovate the stadium - and personally, I wouldn't criticise him for overspending up to and including 16th May 1998. Winning a trophy was the club's raison d'etre: we all yearned for it desperately, and Hearts fans weren't alone in thinking that once we'd won one, the floodgates would open, and who knows what might've been possible?

 

Then 6500 fans turned up to a pre-season friendly against Coventry; and home to Rangers in the SPL's first ever televised live game (which we won 2-1), less than three months after winning the Cup and with many fancying us for the title, the Hearts end wasn't sold out! It's at this point that I would certainly start criticising him: with the way he handled the SMG money and failed to cut Levein's budget in the years afterwards to anything like the extent required top of my list.

[Harry Palmer]

An event which I still regard as pivotal in leading us to where we are now. The Scottish Media Group bought ?3.5m worth of shares, and put a further ?4.5m in by way of convertible loan stock. Unfortunately, for reasons which remain entirely unfathomable, the club assumed SMG would convert this ?4.5m into shares, so spent the full ?8m pretty quickly on transfer fees, wages, signing on fees, new contracts and - a good move this, at least - the academy; but by the end of that very season, it was pretty obvious they wouldn't. Hence the cost cutting which followed; hence the skyrocketing debt; hence the inevitable decision (accompanied with lies from our much loved Chief Executive) to put Tynecastle up for sale when SMG formally confirmed they wanted their money back in November 2003.

 

Of course, we were already overstretching as it was; but the SMG deal - or rather, the clueless way in which the club handled it and allocated the money - gave us the decisive push. The curious thing is how excited almost all of us were when it was announced: most of us thought we were suddenly rich, could close the gap on the OF, and open an insurmountable one up on the rest. But most of the players we targeted wouldn't join; we wasted much of the rest; and by Summer 2000, it was all too clear it had amounted to a Fool's Paradise.

 

To his eternal credit, Leslie Deans resigned from the board when the deal was announced. Rather less to his credit, he maintained a pedantic war of words with Chris Robinson in the years which followed, which often did more harm than good; but it is absolutely incredible that no-one else on the board appeared to consider even for a moment that SMG wouldn't convert their loan. I've often suspected that Robinson jumped at it in order to thwart takeover plans Deans was trying to arrange at the time: a case, sadly, of personal enmity doing enormous long-term damage to the club.

 

Looking back, it's bizarre that so many of us thought that ?8m would make such a huge difference anyway. This was a time of post-Bosman inflationary madness in football, with both Rangers and Celtic spending crazy amounts of money, and rapidly disappearing over the horizon. An example, I'm afraid, of the club having wholly unrealisable dreams beyond our station in life. The much missed NIT queried what the consequences might be; so did Jim Traynor. But that was pretty much it - and worst of all, the man supposed to be leading us displayed zero foresight and even less leadership.

 

This was how the BBC reported it at the time:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/439517.stm

 

The reports on the page can still be downloaded, albeit the picture quality is poor. If you can stomach listening to Mr Robinson, keep an ear out for his final response to the radio interviewer: it's scary! And of course, it's particularly interesting to consider all this given the unhappiness over our present owner: Romanov may have bazillions of faults, but crucially, he's able to guarantee the debt in a way Robinson never could. And if it wasn't for how we handled the SMG deal, it's doubtful any of us would've ever heard of Romanov even now.

 

If you can remember back, what were everyone's thoughts at the time?

 

Do you realise what you've done?

[shaun.lawson]

Do you realise what you've done?

 

Apart from reminding people that we're maybe better off now than we tend to appreciate, what's that?

[Martin_T]

You're entirely correct - it was mad! And driven by ego as much as anything. "Look at us: we're on the Stock Market!" Crazy really. The one good, long lasting thing Robinson did was renovate the stadium - and personally, I wouldn't criticise him for overspending up to and including 16th May 1998. Winning a trophy was the club's raison d'etre: we all yearned for it desperately, and Hearts fans weren't alone in thinking that once we'd won one, the floodgates would open, and who knows what might've been possible?

 

Then 6500 fans turned up to a pre-season friendly against Coventry; and home to Rangers in the SPL's first ever televised live game (which we won 2-1), less than three months after winning the Cup and with many fancying us for the title, the Hearts end wasn't sold out! It's at this point that I would certainly start criticising him: with the way he handled the SMG money and failed to cut Levein's budget in the years afterwards to anything like the extent required top of my list.

 

I think that is as much to do with the marketing and ticket pricing as much as anything. If I recall correctly, the Rangers game was at the end of July, on a Sunday night and on the telly, which would have meant a fair chunk of season ticket holders would have been on holiday and walk up fans would have been influenced by the inconvenient kick off time and the fact it was televised. That said, I remember being at the game and being dissapointed by the gaps in the home end at the time.

 

What Phil Anderton's tenure at Hearts showed us is, that with a successful team combined with good marketing and ticket prices, Hearts can sell out Tynecastle every week.

 

To be fair to Robinson, Hearts debt only really started to seriously spiral out of control following the collapse of the SPL's original Sky contract. Prior to that our operating losses had been masked by regular player sales. McCann in 1999, Naysmith in 2000, Colin Cameron in 2001 and finally Niemi in 2002. All of which he received severe criticism for at the time.

[CF11JamTart]

You're entirely correct - it was mad! And driven by ego as much as anything. "Look at us: we're on the Stock Market!" Crazy really. The one good, long lasting thing Robinson did was renovate the stadium - and personally, I wouldn't criticise him for overspending up to and including 16th May 1998. Winning a trophy was the club's raison d'etre: we all yearned for it desperately, and Hearts fans weren't alone in thinking that once we'd won one, the floodgates would open, and who knows what might've been possible?

 

Then 6500 fans turned up to a pre-season friendly against Coventry; and home to Rangers in the SPL's first ever televised live game (which we won 2-1), less than three months after winning the Cup and with many fancying us for the title, the Hearts end wasn't sold out! It's at this point that I would certainly start criticising him: with the way he handled the SMG money and failed to cut Levein's budget in the years afterwards to anything like the extent required top of my list.

 

 

Thank for this Shaun. Clears up a fair bit up inside my head. I was idly thinking about this the other night, started a thread, and immediately got shot-down for being a Hobo scheidt-stirrer (and a rabid ponce - which was novel).

 

Whilst I never recall the club being flush with cash, this feels like it was the tipping point. And the irony of CPR making out that this ?8M would allow us to "push on to the next level".

 

Christ knows who-owes-what-to-who in the current state, but the SMG deal seems to have been an albatross.

[The Comedian]

Interesting to note we made a profit that year prior to the SMG deal, needless to say the SMG money killed that recovery off.

 

I was excited that we had a bob or two to spend on the squad. It was reported we had offered 1 million for McCulloch at Motherwell only for them to knock it back and sell him and Stevie McMillan to Wigan for 1.2 million. It seemed quite strange and unsettling too though seeing as our debt was well known. Every penny had to be spent wisely and save Niemi it wasn't. Fitzroy Simpson anyone?

 

It was never going to be enough to challenge the OF anyway so we should have at least made Riccarton our own.

[Serj Tankian]

I would love to dance on his grave.

 

I will, the vilest man up there along side Gary Glitter in the hate stakes.

[Smoked-Glass]

gordan pectric

 

10k a week?

 

 

 

money lost end of

[Spellczech]

Mercer was businessman who had 99p of debt for every ?1 of wealth. Pieman was exactly the same. Neither of them was truly rich enough to own a football club the size of Hearts and ever meet the dreams and expectations of the fans. Is Romanov? Well it's looking less and less likely...However, as you note Shaun, he at least has deep enough pockets to guarantee the debt that club has. Whether that means he has a better wealth to debt ratio than either Mercer or Robinson is unclear though...I believe he did when he arrived but I believe the ratio has gone down since.

[shaun.lawson]

I think that is as much to do with the marketing and ticket pricing as much as anything. If I recall correctly, the Rangers game was at the end of July, on a Sunday night and on the telly, which would have meant a fair chunk of season ticket holders would have been on holiday and walk up fans would have been influenced by the inconvenient kick off time and the fact it was televised. That said, I remember being at the game and being dissapointed by the gaps in the home end at the time.

 

What Phil Anderton's tenure at Hearts showed us is, that with a successful team combined with good marketing and ticket prices, Hearts can sell out Tynecastle every week.

 

To be fair to Robinson, Hearts debt only really started to seriously spiral out of control following the collapse of the SPL's original Sky contract. Prior to that our operating losses had been masked by regular player sales. McCann in 1999, Naysmith in 2000, Colin Cameron in 2001 and finally Niemi in 2002. All of which he received severe criticism for at the time.

 

Agree totally with the stuff on marketing the club: Anderton and Romanov have shown what can be done there. On the bit about the TV deal collapse being crucial... mmm. We were still losing significant amounts even once those players had been sold - because unlike now, we were in no position to eyeball buyers, and had to accept what were largely knockdown prices, as was true at any non-OF club.

 

On top of that, because of the interest their loan had accrued, we owed SMG ?7m when they called it in in late 2003: hence Robinson coming up with hare-brained schemes like moving to Straiton or (cracking one this!), playing Celtic in an SPL game... in Australia! Because the bottom line was we couldn't even afford the first instalment of SMG's money back: a measly ?767,000.

[Harry Palmer]

Apart from reminding people that we're maybe better off now than we tend to appreciate, what's that?

 

Just wait. Edward Fox in Force 10 from Navarone......

[CF11JamTart]

Agree totally with the stuff on marketing the club: Anderton and Romanov have shown what can be done there. On the bit about the TV deal collapse being crucial... mmm. We were still losing significant amounts even once those players had been sold - because unlike now, we were in no position to eyeball buyers, and had to accept what were largely knockdown prices, as was true at any non-OF club.

 

On top of that, because of the interest their loan had accrued, we owed SMG ?7m when they called it in in late 2003: hence Robinson coming up with hare-brained schemes like moving to Straiton or (cracking one this!), playing Celtic in an SPL game... in Australia! Because the bottom line was we couldn't even afford the first instalment of SMG's money back: a measly ?767,000.

 

 

I had forgotten about that.

 

I also try to forget about Fabien Leclerq, Fitzroy Simpson, Gordan Petric, Vincent Guerin et al.

 

Guerin? Great player. Shame he was at Tynie about a decade too late.

[The Gasman]

although we have a long term lease,i understand its a very loose binding contract we have,so if the uni ever wanted us out it wouldnt be to difficult. a remember a few people doing a bit digging about the supposed ring fenced money which if i remember was 4.5m,but not getting any answers.i would loved to have found out what went on with that,but a dont suppse we ever will.

 

25 year lease if I remember right.

 

It's scares me to see that there are still Hearts fans who think CPR used the SMG money for Riccarton, and never picked up that this money was "dissapeared" under his Chairmanship of our Club.

 

Cannot bear seeing that man at Tynecastle.

[shaun.lawson]

I had forgotten about that.

 

I also try to forget about Fabien Leclerq, Fitzroy Simpson, Gordan Petric, Vincent Guerin et al.

 

Guerin? Great player. Shame he was at Tynie about a decade too late.

 

That sort of thing happens whenever Hearts try to move to the mythical "next level", though - and in the process, forget what we're all about. It's worth remembering too that a love of flux characterised JJ's management throughout his time here: so many players in and out, but while we could just about afford it when it involved really cheap signings, we couldn't at all later.

 

We weren't the first club to find that, having had a bit of success, wage demands spiralled out of all control; and won't be the last either. In that sense, it's very difficult to stay true to the initial virtuous strategy (embodied by players like Cameron, Weir and McCann) even if you want to; and the crazy post-Bosman era throughout Scottish football did the rest.

[Charlie-Brown]

It was a fundamental & profound move in the wrong direction - after the emergence of Gary Naysmith & Scott Severin we basically gave up on the idea of bringing through young players and giving them opportunities and instead started looking only in the transfer market for players who would 'take us to the next level' or for replacements for departed players ..... it was really only when Andy Webster & Craig Gordon started to emerge that we turned back to what we can afford and what we do best.

[CF11JamTart]

That sort of thing happens whenever Hearts try to move to the mythical "next level", though - and in the process, forget what we're all about. It's worth remembering too that a love of flux characterised JJ's management throughout his time here: so many players in and out, but while we could just about afford it when it involved really cheap signings, we couldn't at all later.

 

We weren't the first club to find that, having had a bit of success, wage demands spiralled out of all control; and won't be the last either. In that sense, it's very difficult to stay true to the initial virtuous strategy (embodied by players like Cameron, Weir and McCann) even if you want to; and the crazy post-Bosman era throughout Scottish football did the rest.

 

That sort of thing seems to be a continuing motif in the last 25 years that I've been supporting the JT's. Our most successful times seem to have been when we have got young-ish, hungry-ish players (either from within, or from lower league clubs), get some good years -and hopefully some success - as they develop as players and the team gels, and the better players get sold to bigger/better clubs.

 

Rightly or wrongly, it felt like a natural order. I guess we have seen partial returns to that with Craig Gordon and Christophe Berra. Cannot grudge them leaving Hearts for the promise of playing in the EPL, as the club got decent money for them.

 

Don't start me on that bell-end Webster, though.

[The Comedian]

It was a fundamental & profound move in the wrong direction - after the emergence of Gary Naysmith & Scott Severin we basically gave up on the idea of bringing through young players and giving them opportunities and instead started looking only in the transfer market for players who would 'take us to the next level' or for replacements for departed players ..... it was really only when Andy Webster & Craig Gordon started to emerge that we turned back to what we can afford and what we do best.

 

Our club obviously need to learn this lesson twice. We need to do the above agin nearly 10 years later.

 

One common theme over the last say 15 years, our club In one way or another has flushed a stunning amount of money down the can. Absolutely staggering.

[shaun.lawson]

That sort of thing seems to be a continuing motif in the last 25 years that I've been supporting the JT's. Our most successful times seem to have been when we have got young-ish, hungry-ish players (either from within, or from lower league clubs), get some good years -and hopefully some success - as they develop as players and the team gels, and the better players get sold to bigger/better clubs.

 

Rightly or wrongly, it felt like a natural order. I guess we have seen partial returns to that with Craig Gordon and Christophe Berra. Cannot grudge them leaving Hearts for the promise of playing in the EPL, as the club got decent money for them.

 

Don't start me on that bell-end Webster, though.

 

Agree with this - but it's a lot easier said than done! Players of the talent of Cameron, McCann and Weir are few and far between; and it can be even rarer for them to be so cheap. It's only natural we try and move out of the natural order sometimes - largely because the fans are so ambitious, and also part of the 'Hearts curse' I mentioned the other day. But in the end, that natural order always reasserts itself, often with grim consequences.

[jambojackbilly]

Great stuff guys and genuinely interesting

 

Admit i dont understand it all, but I'm astounded at some of the goings on

 

As for the 'Pieman' i'd like to know how much money that Man put into Hearts and how much money that man took out during his term at HMFC

 

The fact that he still attends games makes my skin crawl

[berrasbraw]

Hate the snakey creep of a man,would love to meet the fan that put a chair over his napper so i could shake his hand.

Still walks around like he owns Tynecastle.

[rudi must stay]

An event which I still regard as pivotal in leading us to where we are now. The Scottish Media Group bought ?3.5m worth of shares, and put a further ?4.5m in by way of convertible loan stock. Unfortunately, for reasons which remain entirely unfathomable, the club assumed SMG would convert this ?4.5m into shares, so spent the full ?8m pretty quickly on transfer fees, wages, signing on fees, new contracts and - a good move this, at least - the academy; but by the end of that very season, it was pretty obvious they wouldn't. Hence the cost cutting which followed; hence the skyrocketing debt; hence the inevitable decision (accompanied with lies from our much loved Chief Executive) to put Tynecastle up for sale when SMG formally confirmed they wanted their money back in November 2003.

 

Of course, we were already overstretching as it was; but the SMG deal - or rather, the clueless way in which the club handled it and allocated the money - gave us the decisive push. The curious thing is how excited almost all of us were when it was announced: most of us thought we were suddenly rich, could close the gap on the OF, and open an insurmountable one up on the rest. But most of the players we targeted wouldn't join; we wasted much of the rest; and by Summer 2000, it was all too clear it had amounted to a Fool's Paradise.

 

To his eternal credit, Leslie Deans resigned from the board when the deal was announced. Rather less to his credit, he maintained a pedantic war of words with Chris Robinson in the years which followed, which often did more harm than good; but it is absolutely incredible that no-one else on the board appeared to consider even for a moment that SMG wouldn't convert their loan. I've often suspected that Robinson jumped at it in order to thwart takeover plans Deans was trying to arrange at the time: a case, sadly, of personal enmity doing enormous long-term damage to the club.

 

Looking back, it's bizarre that so many of us thought that ?8m would make such a huge difference anyway. This was a time of post-Bosman inflationary madness in football, with both Rangers and Celtic spending crazy amounts of money, and rapidly disappearing over the horizon. An example, I'm afraid, of the club having wholly unrealisable dreams beyond our station in life. The much missed NIT queried what the consequences might be; so did Jim Traynor. But that was pretty much it - and worst of all, the man supposed to be leading us displayed zero foresight and even less leadership.

 

This was how the BBC reported it at the time:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/439517.stm

 

The reports on the page can still be downloaded, albeit the picture quality is poor. If you can stomach listening to Mr Robinson, keep an ear out for his final response to the radio interviewer: it's scary! And of course, it's particularly interesting to consider all this given the unhappiness over our present owner: Romanov may have bazillions of faults, but crucially, he's able to guarantee the debt in a way Robinson never could. And if it wasn't for how we handled the SMG deal, it's doubtful any of us would've ever heard of Romanov even now.

 

If you can remember back, what were everyone's thoughts at the time?

 

it's got nothing to do with where we are now, we have different owners with far more money. I remember being cautious about the deal IIRC, like most people I just felt it was too good to be true.

[speedbump]

Hate the snakey creep of a man,would love to meet the fan that put a chair over his napper so i could shake his hand.

Still walks around like he owns Tynecastle.

 

He threw a bar stool at the pie rat, in a hotel bar in Dingwall.

[Charlie-Brown]

Lee McCulloch & Robbie Winters & Stephen Glass are perfect examples from that time period of what NOT to do - Hearts cannot afford nor ever should pay big money or try to pay big money for our SPL rivals best players - firstly if they've any sense then Aberdeen, Motherwell & Dundee Utd etc will try to extract as much money as possible and then some from us if we are trying to sign their best players ... in a sense we got lucky with McCann, Cameron, Weir & Hamilton in that their contract situations and relegation threat to their clubs helped Falkirk, Raith & Dundee accept decent offers for these players but less than they would have been worth if those clubs SPL future was assured and the players had been tied up on long term contracts. When people say we should have signed Barry Robson, Scott McDonald & Stevie Naismith etc they ignore the fundamental reality that Hearts cannot AFFORD to take other teams best players from them especially if a large fee is involved.

 

Hearts best signings are those we bring through ourselves or else signed relatively cheaply in the transfer market - recent examples would be Pressley, Hartley & Webster where we got them for nowt or less than ?100K and they became worth much more than that either in their eventual transfer fee or value to the team .... older examples of a similar nature would be Craig Levein, John Colquhoun & Stevie Frail.

 

If we aim to buy low and sell high then we are on the right track - when we start thinking we are big time charlies with cash to splash then rest assured sooner or later we will discover we are on the wrong track.

[shaun.lawson]

it's got nothing to do with where we are now, we have different owners with far more money. I remember being cautious about the deal IIRC, like most people I just felt it was too good to be true.

 

Oh no! You're doing your impersonation of JKB's very own Melanie Phillips again! It's got tons to do with where we are now: of course we've got a different owner with a lot more money, but we only needed a different owner in the first place because of the repercussions of the SMG deal.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

Lee McCulloch & Robbie Winters & Stephen Glass are perfect examples from that time period of what NOT to do - Hearts cannot afford nor ever should pay big money or try to pay big money for our SPL rivals best players - firstly if they've any sense then Aberdeen, Motherwell & Dundee Utd etc will try to extract as much money as possible and then some from us if we are trying to sign their best players ... in a sense we got lucky with McCann, Cameron, Weir & Hamilton in that their contract situations and relegation threat to their clubs helped Falkirk, Raith & Dundee accept decent offers for these players but less than they would have been worth if those clubs SPL future was assured and the players had been tied up on long term contracts. When people say we should have signed Barry Robson, Scott McDonald & Stevie Naismith etc they ignore the fundamental reality that Hearts cannot AFFORD to take other teams best players from them especially if a large fee is involved.

 

Hearts best signings are those we bring through ourselves or else signed relatively cheaply in the transfer market - recent examples would be Pressley, Hartley & Webster where we got them for nowt or less than ?100K and they became worth much more than that either in their eventual transfer fee or value to the team .... older examples of a similar nature would be Craig Levein, John Colquhoun & Stevie Frail.

 

If we aim to buy low and sell high then we are on the right track - when we start thinking we are big time charlies with cash to splash then rest assured sooner or later we will discover we are on the wrong track.

 

Far better to buy the likes of Beslija, Pinilla and Makella

[shaun.lawson]

Far better to buy the likes of Beslija, Pinilla and Makella

 

 

Of course though, in the thrust of what he says, Charlie is undoubtedly right. It's just that we've been as guilty of not following this prescription under Romanov as we were under Robinson.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

 

Of course though, in the thrust of what he says, Charlie is undoubtedly right. It's just that we've been as guilty of not following this prescription under Romanov as we were under Robinson.

 

Aye Vlad should listen to Charlie, then just maybe he'd get it right

[Martin_T]

Agree with this - but it's a lot easier said than done! Players of the talent of Cameron, McCann and Weir are few and far between; and it can be even rarer for them to be so cheap. It's only natural we try and move out of the natural order sometimes - largely because the fans are so ambitious, and also part of the 'Hearts curse' I mentioned the other day. But in the end, that natural order always reasserts itself, often with grim consequences.

 

Cameron, Weir and McCann type signings would be harder for Hearts to achieve now for a few reasons:

 

A) Transfer fees for virtually all non Old firm SPL clubs are off the agenda for the immediate future.

Wage inflation in the English market is rendering SPL clubs un-competitive for domestic Bosman signings, witness the likes of Stephen Hughes, Steven Dobbie and Scott Severin all heading South this summer, when previously it would have been realistic for Hearts to sign these players.

C) Even Scottish lower league clubs are benefiting from the ridiculous transfer fee inflation caused by the English market. Witness Dundee realising a fee in excess of ?500,000 for Kevin McDonald from Burnley, Leigh Griffiths and Garry Harkins both transferring for over ?200,000 this summer.

 

Thus our most prudent strategy is to rely on our academy for players and if we continue to produce players of the quality of Gordon, Berra, Wallace, Driver, Jonsson, Glen, Elliot and most recently Craig Thomson, then this can be a lucrative strategy for the club.

 

Worth noting also, that when the likes of Cameron and Naysmith were sold, there was an incredibly hostile reaction from the Hearts support toward the board for selling our best players (Perhaps the fee's realised could have been bigger) however these days as a fanbase I think we are more tolerant of player sales as we more readily recognise our place in the food chain.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

FACT TO REMEMBER: Deans publicly backed the SMG investment and voted for it.

 

FACT TO REMEMBER NO 2: Robinson always claimed that SMG would convert the loan stock, even when the share price hit 17p (the conversion price per share was ?1.40).

 

The SMG deal per se wasn't the problem. It was how the board handled it was the issue. That SMG wanted player investment is unquestioned but when the likes of John O'Neil at that time were wanting ?6K a week from us to sign (he signed for the vermin for less), it shows the power players and agents had.

[shaun.lawson]

Cameron, Weir and McCann type signings would be harder for Hearts to achieve now for a few reasons:

 

A) Transfer fees for virtually all non Old firm SPL clubs are off the agenda for the immediate future.

Wage inflation in the English market is rendering SPL clubs un-competitive for domestic Bosman signings, witness the likes of Stephen Hughes, Steven Dobbie and Scott Severin all heading South this summer, when previously it would have been realistic for Hearts to sign these players.

C) Even Scottish lower league clubs are benefiting from the ridiculous transfer fee inflation caused by the English market. Witness Dundee realising a fee in excess of ?500,000 for Kevin McDonald from Burnley, Leigh Griffiths and Garry Harkins both transferring for over ?200,000 this summer.

 

Thus our most prudent strategy is to rely on our academy for players and if we continue to produce players of the quality of Gordon, Berra, Wallace, Driver, Jonsson, Glen, Elliot and most recently Craig Thomson, then this can be a lucrative strategy for the club.

 

Worth noting also, that when the likes of Cameron and Naysmith were sold, there was an incredibly hostile reaction from the Hearts support toward the board for selling our best players (Perhaps the fee's realised could have been bigger) however these days as a fanbase I think we are more tolerant of player sales as we more readily recognise our place in the food chain.

 

Yup, all very true. At the time of Cameron and Naysmith's sales, I think what made us so angry was it seemed as the direct result of the board's incompetence, which in turn undermined the manager's chances of building a successful team. The crucial thing was that the more clinical Levein was signed up to the cost cutting, whereas the more emotional JJ - who I think genuinely believed he could achieve all his career goals with us at one point - wasn't.

 

And it helps that our player sales tend to bring in big bucks now. Back then, they didn't, albeit that was just how the market seemed to work at the time. Robinson's biggest crime in many ways was simply not to enjoy anything like the personal and business-related wealth that Romanov does.

[Martin_T]

Lee McCulloch & Robbie Winters & Stephen Glass are perfect examples from that time period of what NOT to do - Hearts cannot afford nor ever should pay big money or try to pay big money for our SPL rivals best players - firstly if they've any sense then Aberdeen, Motherwell & Dundee Utd etc will try to extract as much money as possible and then some from us if we are trying to sign their best players ... in a sense we got lucky with McCann, Cameron, Weir & Hamilton in that their contract situations and relegation threat to their clubs helped Falkirk, Raith & Dundee accept decent offers for these players but less than they would have been worth if those clubs SPL future was assured and the players had been tied up on long term contracts. When people say we should have signed Barry Robson, Scott McDonald & Stevie Naismith etc they ignore the fundamental reality that Hearts cannot AFFORD to take other teams best players from them especially if a large fee is involved.

 

Hearts best signings are those we bring through ourselves or else signed relatively cheaply in the transfer market - recent examples would be Pressley, Hartley & Webster where we got them for nowt or less than ?100K and they became worth much more than that either in their eventual transfer fee or value to the team .... older examples of a similar nature would be Craig Levein, John Colquhoun & Stevie Frail.

 

If we aim to buy low and sell high then we are on the right track - when we start thinking we are big time charlies with cash to splash then rest assured sooner or later we will discover we are on the wrong track.

 

Charlie I'm curious, do you now recognise and acknowledge that Romanov's strategy for the footballing side of HMFC was fundamentally flawed between 2005 and 2008?

[Charlie-Brown]

Far better to buy the likes of Beslija, Pinilla and Makella

 

Nope we shouldn't have signed them just like Petric & Fitzroy simpson etc were mistakes as well - we shouldn't pay big money for anyone when there are always up & coming players available free or for a couple of hundred grand at most that almost always prove to be a better investment even if they don't have an initial 'glamour' factor ..... being efficient and smart is worth 10 X showing 'ambition' in my book.

[Genghis Khan]

He threw a bar stool at the pie rat, in a hotel bar in Dingwall.

 

Q. Why did you throw a stool at the Pieman?

 

A. 'Cos the pool table was too heavy!