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What are your expectations for the season ahead now?


shaun.lawson

What league position should be expected this season?  

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  1. 1. What league position should be expected this season?



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shaun.lawson

Interesting developments today, and potentially encouraging: depending entirely on whether the owner and manager are on the same page, and will work together in the best interests of the club. So given our changed circumstances and continued lack of firepower, what do you regard as a realistic expectation?

 

Note: I'm not asking where you think we'll finish. I'm just asking what sort of league position should be expected: meaning if we fall below it, questions should be asked; and if we end up above it, we'll have over-achieved.

 

My answer, incidentally? 5th.

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All up in the air just now.

 

If Laszlo holds his word and gives the youngsters a go then we may do okay, if he is just lying then we won't do as well IMO.

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shaun.lawson
All up in the air just now.

 

If Laszlo holds his word and gives the youngsters a go then we may do okay, if he is just lying then we won't do as well IMO.

 

What's 'okay'? And what makes you think he hasn't been asked to put players in the shop window? Some 'full control' if so!

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Creepy Lurker

A lot of people that I know have, I think, been overly negative this season. We're not a great side, and it'd be foolish to deny that, but no-one else in the SPL's much cop either! I'll say top six, with third still a possibility if we get a decent run together.

 

What's really a shame is that the Old Firm are chronic this season. Even our current wage bill, managed correctly, is easily high enough to finance a real challenge to them.

 

What does "St Johnstone" mean in this context?

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I'd say 3rd is most likely single outcome but as there is far more possibility of 4th,5th or 6th than 1st or 2nd the Average Expected value comes out at 4.16

frink.gif

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What's 'okay'? And what makes you think he hasn't been asked to put players in the shop window? Some 'full control' if so!

 

What's okay? God that is a difficult question. We SHOULD be finishing third, mainly because of our budget as mentioned by BJ. However due to stupidity by Laszlo in the transfer market our squad is crazily lopsided. Can we go another season sneaking goals? I don't know. I think that third is severely ambitious.

 

As for the last bit, I think that Laszlo is paying lip service to the "play kids" brigade. I think that we will see more kids than last season but not much more. Already Jamie Mole's former (I say former as I think he has moved in round the corner!) landlord is telling us that Nade is set to start tomorrow which tells me that Laszlo is not committed to playing the younger players.

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shaun.lawson

 

What does "St Johnstone" mean in this context?

 

Don't care.

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A lot of people that I know have, I think, been overly negative this season. We're not a great side, and it'd be foolish to deny that, but no-one else in the SPL's much cop either! I'll say top six, with third still a possibility if we get a decent run together.

 

What's really a shame is that the Old Firm are chronic this season. Even our current wage bill, managed correctly, is easily high enough to finance a real challenge to them.

 

What does "St Johnstone" mean in this context?

 

It has been used on here for some time as the non-vote. Much like the "don't care" vote on Soccer AM, it is really anti-voting.

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Buffalo Bill

Sadly, I reckon 5th behind Hibs and Dundee Utd.

 

 

They're both on the ascendancy having bought in attacking players and there seems a much better atmosphere around those two clubs just now.

 

 

We've bought reasonable players but in the wrong positions when a ****ing blind man who died recently could tell you that we're screaming out for a striker.

 

 

It beggars beleif.

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Creepy Lurker
It has been used on here for some time as the non-vote. Much like the "don't care" vote on Soccer AM, it is really anti-voting.

 

Don't care.

 

It all makes sense now! Thanks for clarifying.

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shaun.lawson
What's okay? God that is a difficult question. We SHOULD be finishing third, mainly because of our budget as mentioned by BJ. However due to stupidity by Laszlo in the transfer market our squad is crazily lopsided. Can we go another season sneaking goals? I don't know. I think that third is severely ambitious.

 

As for the last bit, I think that Laszlo is paying lip service to the "play kids" brigade. I think that we will see more kids than last season but not much more. Already Jamie Mole's former (I say former as I think he has moved in round the corner!) landlord is telling us that Nade is set to start tomorrow which tells me that Laszlo is not committed to playing the younger players.

 

I'm bewildered by your take on this. On another thread, you acknowledged he probably doesn't have full control - then castigated him for not 'prioritising' a striker. HTF is he supposed to prioritise a striker without having full control?

 

Csaba puts together a very long list and presents it to the board. It's then up to the board to bring the players in. The noises he was making at the end of last season suggested he didn't know what his budget was, and hadn't met Romanov about it yet (if so, why not? Shouldn't they be in contact all the time?) - and perhaps because of HMRC, his budget appears to have changed since.

 

But when I say 'his budget', it's not as though he's the one ultimately responsible for signings, even if they were on his long list: the board is. Hence the need for a Sporting Director - at least, until Korobochka left anyway. If future Hearts managers have exactly the same problem, and can't sign a decent striker either, what will you say?

 

On the question of youngsters: well, sure. But do we want everyone thrown in at once; and will he be castigated if they're not? Young players have confidence which can veer wildly: if you don't introduce them gradually, you can harm their progress. And if he's being told to pick the youngsters or else, how is that full control either?

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portobellojambo1
Bottom line, we should be finishing 3rd by virtue of having the biggest wage bill outside the OF. Whilst, its not as high as it has been in the past I have little doubt it still by and far and away that of anyone else.

 

Now if we don't finish 3rd I'm not necessarily saying its the managers fault, however, we won't be effectively using our resources very well.

 

 

While I understand the basis of what you say, the logic behind what you say, it doesn't always work that way. All you have to do is have a look at the executives and managers of many of our companies, simply because someone is paid more than someone else doesn't mean they are better, some companies are run by total idiots. In football there may be many players at other clubs earning a lot less than Hearts players, but they are not necessarily poorer players.

 

For this season, I had reasonably high hopes; those matches I've watched on the road, at Southampton, Tannadice and in Zagreb, have made my confidence drop quite dramatically. I think we will struggle big time to get goals away from Tynecastle, if we adopt a different style of play at Tynecastle we may have some success. Not sure where we will finish now, but think it would be wrong to expect too much, certainly wrong to assume we will finish where we did last season.

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I've put 4th, but really I expect 3rd.

 

3rd isn't overachieving by any manner of means, but 4th wouldn't be the end of the world either.

 

5th place I'd be mightily teed off.

 

What all the gloom merchants fail to point out in their scramble to discredit Mr Romanov is that the entire rest of the league is utterly murder. We'll have no problem picking up points in this league, lack of a "decent striker" or not.

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shaun.lawson
Sadly, I reckon 5th behind Hibs and Dundee Utd.

 

 

They're both on the ascendancy having bought in attacking players and there seems a much better atmosphere around those two clubs just now.

 

 

We've bought reasonable players but in the wrong positions when a ****ing blind man who died recently could tell you that we're screaming out for a striker.

 

 

It beggars beleif.

 

At present, that's exactly what I think too. And the funny thing is, how many of those who say they're happy to have a transitional season, bring in the youngsters and so on won't hit the roof and blame the manager if this means we finish below Hibs?

 

I'm working on the basis that Hearts had a transitional season in 2000/1, and poor seasons in 2001/2 and 2004/5, and finished 5th every time. Recent history says a club like us really has to go some (ie. descend into absolute shambles a la 2007/8) to finish below fifth to be honest.

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I'm bewildered by your take on this. On another thread, you acknowledged he probably doesn't have full control - then castigated him for not 'prioritising' a striker. HTF is he supposed to prioritise a striker without having full control?

 

Csaba puts together a very long list and presents it to the board. It's then up to the board to bring the players in. The noises he was making at the end of last season suggested he didn't know what his budget was, and hadn't met Romanov about it yet (if so, why not? Shouldn't they be in contact all the time?) - and perhaps because of HMRC, his budget appears to have changed since.

 

But when I say 'his budget', it's not as though he's the one ultimately responsible for signings, even if they were on his long list: the board is. Hence the need for a Sporting Director - at least, until Korobochka left anyway. If future Hearts managers have exactly the same problem, and can't sign a decent striker either, what will you say?

 

On the question of youngsters: well, sure. But do we want everyone thrown in at once; and will he be castigated if they're not? Young players have confidence which can veer wildly: if you don't introduce them gradually, you can harm their progress. And if he's being told to pick the youngsters or else, how is that full control either?

 

Shaun, I am just logging off so I am not going to post a long diatribe (unlike your good self) to answer this.

 

As far as I am aware, no manager in British football has "full control" on transfers, despite your bewilderment. Laszlo has made it perfectly clear that he has enough control by refusing four of Romanov's choices. He has also signed at least two players that he has stated were scouted by his guys (Werner Berger?) but neither of those were the striker we require.

 

You pose these comments about control yet ignore the facts. We have signed six players and none of them have shown any sign that they will score goals to any decent level for the club.

 

Well and truly mis-managed by Laszlo. If you cannot see it then it is I that is bewildered.

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shaun.lawson
I've put 4th, but really I expect 3rd.

 

3rd isn't overachieving by any manner of means, but 4th wouldn't be the end of the world either.

 

5th place I'd be mightily teed off.

 

What all the gloom merchants fail to point out in their scramble to discredit Mr Romanov is that the entire rest of the league is utterly murder. We'll have no problem picking up points in this league, lack of a "decent striker" or not.

 

Picking up points and being competitive? No problem. Finishing 3rd? Big problem. Grinding out 1-0s every week without a decent striker is extremely difficult, and can't be relied upon in the long term. I find it hard to imagine us re-creating last season's spirit, which happened partly because of the players' sheer shock at actually playing under a manager again, and partly because pre-season expectations were so low, meaning the pressure was less.

 

Even then, in the first half of the season, Aguiar was absolutely crucial - but he left in the summer. Karipidis and Berra have gone too; it's as yet unclear as to whether Neilson's replacement at RB will be better. I felt we over-achieved last season (not in terms of wage bill, but in terms of the make-up of our squad); third this season would be wondrous, and I just can't see it.

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Pants Shaton

I agree with everything Shaun has said on this thread except the 'potentially encouraging' part. I really can't see where that optimism comes from.

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Guest Freewheelin' Jambo

After all the Csaba Love-in of the last year, might we now have the opportunity to see how good a manager he really is?

 

Hamstrung by having no recognised striker, questionable new signings of his own (?) being told no more to come in and that he must pick from young players, what more of a challenge can an ambitious manager have?

 

Its a mess really. The promise of new faces has not really brought in anyone that impresses overly. Nobody new appears better than those we lost Kari, Bruno and Robbie.

 

Maybe this is a "transitional" season so we must not expect too much.

 

However, I still do not expect Laszlo to be here much longer.

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shaun.lawson
Shaun, I am just logging off so I am not going to post a long diatribe (unlike your good self) to answer this.

 

As far as I am aware, no manager in British football has "full control" on transfers, despite your bewilderment. Laszlo has made it perfectly clear that he has enough control by refusing four of Romanov's choices. He has also signed at least two players that he has stated were scouted by his guys (Werner Berger?) but neither of those were the striker we require.

 

You pose these comments about control yet ignore the facts. We have signed six players and none of them have shown any sign that they will score goals to any decent level for the club.

 

Well and truly mis-managed by Laszlo. If you cannot see it then it is I that is bewildered.

 

Good that he's been able to veto some players. Good also that having lost a creative midfielder, hard working midfielder and central defender, he looked to plug those gaps as well. But he's been making noises about a striker for months and months: how is it his fault if the club haven't brought in any striker on his list who fitted the wage bill?

 

On the 'full control' point: sorry, but no. All managers have to work within a budget - but most in the UK do so without DoFs, and in full knowledge of what their budget is. Given this knowledge, they're able to bring players in: it's just up to the board to sanction the wage bill, unless there's something really wrong with a certain player (eg. they're injury prone or fail the medical). Here, all the manager does is compile a long list: yes, he's able to veto players, but if they weren't on his list, what were we doing even suggesting them in the first place? You think that goes on at most (not all, but most) other UK clubs?

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shaun.lawson
I agree with everything Shaun has said on this thread except the 'potentially encouraging' part. I really can't see where that optimism comes from.

 

Potentially encouraging only if Csaba's happy about it, and the club are prepared to put a long overdue long term plan together based on building a squad around young players. Not if he's been dictated to, isn't happy about it or whatever - but if so, that'd become apparent soon enough in any case.

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Pants Shaton
I agree that just because they are paid more money does not mean they are better. However, in theory they should be. If we're paying poorer players more money then we need to ask questions of those involved in spending the money. How can other teams get better players for less, than we can get etc.

 

Why can other teams get more 'bang for there buck' type thing.

As I touched upon, I'm not necessarily asking questions of the manager. However, the whole regime in relation to the running of the club. How can other clubs spend less than us yet get better results. What we doing wrong, what they doing right.

 

I think a huge reason why people don't expect to finsih 3rd is because for a variety of reasons we have/are (delete as appropriate) run shambolically and waste more money than any other club in the SPL.

 

Now I don't necessarily think we will finish 3rd, however, all things being equal we should be. Therefore, if we don't questions should being asked.

 

In answer to the emboldened question:

 

Maybe because they aren't hamstrung by dealing only with a very short list of 'approved' agents. I agree with PJ's point regarding the disconnect between wages at Tynecastle and ability - look at the reputed big earners (frequently our under-achievers) - they're almost invariably 'Romanov signings'.

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Pants Shaton
Potentially encouraging only if Csaba's happy about it, and the club are prepared to put a long overdue long term plan together based on building a squad around young players. Not if he's been dictated to, isn't happy about it or whatever - but if so, that'd become apparent soon enough in any case.

 

That's a big if.

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shaun.lawson
In answer to the emboldened question:

 

Maybe because they aren't hamstrung be dealing only with a very short list of 'approved' agents. I agree with PJ point regarding the disconnect between wages at Tynecastle and ability - but look at the reputed big earners (frequently our under-achievers) - they're almost invariably 'Romanov signings'.

 

Correct. Because of this, not in every case but certainly many, we don't seem to prioritise the UK market - and the manager gets slagged for not bringing strikers in when Hibs, Kilmarnock and Dundee United all do. You couldn't make it up.

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shaun.lawson
That's a big if.

 

Certainly is! We'll just have to see.

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Geoff Kilpatrick

We should finish 3rd given our budget. As Lord BJ says, if we don't a lot of questions need to be asked of everyone at the club.

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Charlie-Brown
I'd say 3rd is most likely single outcome but as there is far more possibility of 4th,5th or 6th than 1st or 2nd the Average Expected value comes out at 4.16

frink.gif

 

Which actually is very close to our long term average finishing position (based on SPL placings since promotion in 1983) .........

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Same as I thought at the start of the season - 4th.

 

I actually think we played alright against Dundee United and Rangers and arguably we'll have better attacking options than last season despite still having no recognised striker.

 

Suso, Novikovas, a settled big Dave and hopefully a fit Driver along with the likes of Glen, Elliot and Novikovas means if we're looking for a goal I'd actually be a lot more confident looking at this season's bench than I would have been with last season's.

 

Csaba showed last year that he can mould a squad of players into a decent unit based on the qualities he has available. I will retain my faith that he can do something similar this season with the guys we have now.

 

Glass half full.

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Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC

If todays statement to bring on youth players means we have to sacrifice a 3rd place finish then I am more than happy for that.

 

Everyone demans success right away but that just doesn't happen without money.

 

This may not have been the plan but I'm personally very, very happy about the way it has panned out (if promises are kept).

 

5th place and turning 3 or 4 youth players into first team players will do me nicely. Sometimes you need to take a step back to go forward.

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shaun.lawson
If todays statement to bring on youth players means we have to sacrifice a 3rd place finish then I am more than happy for that.

 

Everyone demans success right away but that just doesn't happen without money.

 

This may not have been the plan but I'm personally very, very happy about the way it has panned out (if promises are kept).

 

5th place and turning 3 or 4 youth players into first team players will do me nicely. Sometimes you need to take a step back to go forward.

 

Totally agree - which is why today's news is potentially encouraging, as long as everyone's on board with it.

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Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC
Totally agree - which is why today's news is potentially encouraging, as long as everyone's on board with it.

 

That's how I see it yet a considerable percentage on here have greeted it as bad news.

 

Youths have to be introduced at some point considering the debt we are in so we may as well get it done and get them some game time asap. If they fail then fair enough, at least we tried. If they suceed then you have a good player and a few million quid on your hands.

 

I just don't want the team filled with Suso and Witeveen types. We will just lose our identity.

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We are some way off even getting close to the OF.

We can't match dundee utd's attacking threat.

We can't match hib's attacking threat.

We can't match aberdeen's attacking threat.

We can't match killie's attacking threat.

 

I reckon that we are looking at a 3 way battle for 6th place between us, killie and well. Lets face it we can't score and our defence is poor... our midfield non existant and we have a very unhappy manager... this will be another bad year at Tynecastle... starting with another pants around our ankles session tomorrow night off Zagreb.

 

Our entire team lacks cohesion, communication and leadership... not to mention goals.

 

We have also lost Elliot, Jonsson now, while there is still doubt about Kingston and Driver.

 

With Vlad asking Csaba to rely on promoting youth we are there for the taking off every spl side. Our 'big physical team' is no more and without a recognised goal threat our opposition know that we are impotent in the final third of the pitch.

 

I can see Csaba walking and players leaving come January to ease the wage bill.

 

Sorry guys... I just do not see a happy ending from our current scenario.

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The Mighty Thor

You've got to love JKB.

 

Today we've had a massive volte-face from a huge number on here sparked by the announcement that our summer signings(?) are over and the kids are coming in. Great idea. Why didn't we think of it earlier?

 

Now, it would appear that Csaba has been negligently profligate with the meagre resources he was allocated and that's not oor Vlad's fault don't you know.

 

Feck me. I think the adverts flashing at the bottom of the JKB screen must be inducing some kind of psychosis.

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shaun.lawson
You've got to love JKB.

 

Today we've had a massive volte-face from a huge number on here sparked by the announcement that our summer signings(?) are over and the kids are coming in. Great idea. Why didn't we think of it earlier?

 

Now, it would appear that Csaba has been negligently profligate with the meagre resources he was allocated and that's not oor Vlad's fault don't you know.

 

Feck me. I think the adverts flashing at the bottom of the JKB screen must be inducing some kind of psychosis.

 

Some of it's beyond parody, even for this place!

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shaun.lawson
That's how I see it yet a considerable percentage on here have greeted it as bad news.

 

Youths have to be introduced at some point considering the debt we are in so we may as well get it done and get them some game time asap. If they fail then fair enough, at least we tried. If they suceed then you have a good player and a few million quid on your hands.

 

I just don't want the team filled with Suso and Witeveen types. We will just lose our identity.

 

Neither do I. But hey, here's an idea: how about agreeing that before the transfer window even opened, instead of just before it closes? Is there any kind of plan at this club - or do we always just make it up as we go along?

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Charlie-Brown
Neither do I. But hey, here's an idea: how about agreeing that before the transfer window even opened, instead of just before it closes? Is there any kind of plan at this club - or do we always just make it up as we go along?

 

This policy of promoting youth has been spoken about by Campbell Ogilvie in 2 or 3 separate interviews in the last 12 months whilst Fedotovas said it was to be a major part of club strategy at the AGM in April so the club have seem set on this course of action for some time even going back to 2006 AGM when Roman Romanov announced an extra ?1 Million funding for the Academy ..... if anything it is the manager who has tried to lead us into a different course of action and the requirement for additional senior players.

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Is there any kind of plan at this club - ?

 

Nope, the Lithuanian feckers should appear on the Fringe. Might actually clear some of our debt.

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Captain Canada

I think we will finish 3rd or 4th, we had no great strikers last season either so I don't see why we can't do it again. Once CL establishes his first choice keeper and back 4 then I think we will be fine.

 

Against Rangers our midfield really struggled in the second half and I think having a fully fit (unlikely I know) Kingston and Driver to come back in there will do us the world of good.

 

Not overly impressed with Suso, would like to see Novikovas given an extended run on the right wing as he looks really promising.

 

Overall, it's still a decent squad and if Glen gets a long run up front with another striker (probably Witteveen as he's preferable to Nade) then we will have a team good enough for the top 4.

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If todays statement to bring on youth players means we have to sacrifice a 3rd place finish then I am more than happy for that.

 

Everyone demans success right away but that just doesn't happen without money.

 

This may not have been the plan but I'm personally very, very happy about the way it has panned out (if promises are kept).

 

5th place and turning 3 or 4 youth players into first team players will do me nicely. Sometimes you need to take a step back to go forward.

 

Maybe it was the plan - obviously we're skint, but for Csaba to come out and say that we'll definitely be bringing youngsters through - that to me suggests that these are instructions from above. (has VR not been quoted about bringing young players and developing them etc etc?)

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loveofthegame

4th at very very worst. Any less is a huge disappoinment. Preferably 3rd though, we are meant to be moving forwards under Csaba, not back.

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I assume he people who voted we'd finish 3rd have been on their hols and not seen the Utd, Zagreb or Rangers games, suggest you watch them then ask if you can vote again..............................................., or look at the league, Hearts are one of the teams on nil points and we have no person who can score goals, hope that helps with future voting otherwise remember the drugs don't work :10900:

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On the 'full control' point: sorry, but no. All managers have to work within a budget - but most in the UK do so without DoFs, and in full knowledge of what their budget is. Given this knowledge, they're able to bring players in: it's just up to the board to sanction the wage bill, unless there's something really wrong with a certain player (eg. they're injury prone or fail the medical). Here, all the manager does is compile a long list: yes, he's able to veto players, but if they weren't on his list, what were we doing even suggesting them in the first place? You think that goes on at most (not all, but most) other UK clubs?

 

Your term was "full control" which was completely inaccurate. Do you still stand by "full control"?

 

I just don't want the team filled with Suso and Witeveen types. We will just lose our identity.

 

Sorry, I just don't get that. I watched Arsenal last night, with little or no English presence there. I would bite the hands off of anybody that offered me that "identity".

 

You've got to love JKB.

 

Today we've had a massive volte-face from a huge number on here sparked by the announcement that our summer signings(?) are over and the kids are coming in. Great idea. Why didn't we think of it earlier?

 

Now, it would appear that Csaba has been negligently profligate with the meagre resources he was allocated and that's not oor Vlad's fault don't you know.

Feck me. I think the adverts flashing at the bottom of the JKB screen must be inducing some kind of psychosis.

 

No about turn here. I have been saying, since before pre-season, that if we do not sign a goalscorer this transfer window's activities are a failure. Also, before the window opened I mused that we would not sign many players at all, suggesting that I felt we would only get two; A centre half and a striker. We sit here with six and not one of them can put the ball in the net with any degree of regularity. All this and because our owner is an idiot Laszlo get's off with the "if in doubt suggest it is Romanov's fault" line that has been dolled out for years.

 

I am far from being in Romanov's camp, all I am saying is that when our manager fecks up I don't blame the owner.

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We have to be realistic now.

 

We have a ****e forward line that is far worse than any other team in the league. This means that our defence is under a lot of pressure to prevent goals if we aren't scoring any. Our defence is not looking good enough to do this on the evidence so far.

 

All our opponents need to do is score once against us to guarantee at the very least a point. My fear is that we will pick up few if any points when the opposition scores first.

 

Realistically I think we are bottom six material. Football is all about scoring goals and we won't get away without doing that for another season.

 

What we desperately need to do is find some way of getting the wage thieves and high earners off our payroll in order to (optimistically) get a striker in. Chances of Nade, Kingston, or Goncalves being wanted by other teams are slim, though.

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8th, think we will struggle to score any goals this season, we will be lucky to get a point against St Johnstone on Sunday.

 

Prediction tonight: 3 v 0 Zagreb.

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I'd say top half is the expectation. If we fall below that with the squad we have it is an extremely poor show. I would expect us to be top 5 certainly, and within that challenging for the European places at least.

 

If one of the youngsters can score us 10 goals this season, which is a big task but one I certainly fell Gary Glen for example is up to, then there's no reason why we won't qualify for Europe again.

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shaun.lawson
Your term was "full control" which was completely inaccurate. Do you still stand by "full control"?

 

 

 

 

Within the UK, in most cases, yes - within a budget sanctioned by the board. If you honestly think we go about signing players in the same way as most other UK clubs, and Laszlo is as autonomous as any other manager, words fail me frankly.

 

Laszlo gets the benefit of the doubt because he's not a complete mentalist, doesn't have a history of meddling, incompetence and brain farts, and because, as I've reiterated several times, it is not as simple as "manager signs players". It's "manager presents very long list to board; board brings in players; manager has final veto on them". If no striker on that long list was brought in by the board, that isn't Laszlo's fault - and especially as we're hard up, what were the board doing bringing in players (the Portugese trialists and probably Witteveen) who weren't on the long list?

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