Makes my blood boil

[BigC]

Do any of these cast a bad light on troops in Iraq?

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-soldiers-accused-of-sickening-sex-assault-on-iraqi-boy-14-866482.html

 

"Soldiers rounding up looters as part of an operation codenamed Ali Baba took photographs of prisoners suspended in nets from forklift trucks and others forced to strip naked and adopt simulated sex positions.

 

The photographs caused outrage around the world when they were published, after a British soldier took them to be developed at a high-street shop. An RMP investigation led to just four soldiers being jailed for up to two years in 2005. A number of the alleged victims, including Hassan, are suing the MoD for damages. "

 

Creates a rather unsavoury picture of what was going on? No?

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/feb/23/military.iraq

 

"If allegations made yesterday are true, the battle on May 14 2004 also led to the torture and execution of up to 20 Iraqi civilians, some of whom were mutilated before they died. It may be that British soldiers and officers covered up "one of the most atrocious episodes in British army history," lawyer Martyn Day said yesterday."

 

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/feb2008/iraq-f08.shtml

 

"Seven of the corpses reportedly showed signs of mutilation and torture."

 

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12163.htm

 

"Amnesty International says there is a clear "pattern" of killings, torture and ill treatment by British soldiers of detainees in Iraq. Yet only a handful ever result in prosecutions."

 

There is also the case of the SAS driving around shooting civilians whilst dressed as Iraqis. This was to stir up trouble between ethnic groups there. (Part of Britains historically successful "divide and conquer" strategies.)

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4264614.stm

 

... and plenty of other accusations that the British were intent on stirring up the hornets nest.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4323050.stm

 

 

Anyone who believes that the British Army were there purely to keep the peace is utterly deluded.

 

It is no surprise at all that people feel disgusted that the troops were being welcomed home as heroes.

 

You've completely missed my point.

 

I was talking about the targeting of innocent civillans. Clearly the soliders who commited these atrocities did not think that the victims were innocent.

 

I certainly wouldn't object to anyone protesting against torture, but as far as I was aware, there is no evidence to suggest that THIS PARTICULAR REGIMENT were involved, which is why I said they were aiming the protests at the wrong people.

 

Bad things happen during wars. I'm sure plenty of Germans were tortured during WW2 but that doesn't make every British soldier deserving of abuse.

 

They've just picked a regiment at random - whose mission was just peacekeeping on their last two tours at least -and protestd at them because it was convenient.

 

The only bit I was interested in that could have been relevant to the argument, was the bit about SAS soldiers dressing up as Iraqis and killing people to stir up trouble between groups of civilians, which sounds like BS to me, and I couldn't find anything to back that allegation up in any of the articles you linked to. Can you be more specific?

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

A few pictures just to keep the blood boiling on this thread:

 

 

 

Hope this helps.

[wibble]

A few pictures just to keep the blood boiling on this thread:

 

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

He's a fekkin' Sikh you ignoramous.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

He's a fekkin' Sikh you ignoramous.

 

That was the point. The chaps on this thread are of the 'feck them they are all the same, it's us v them, school of thought.

 

[BigC]

Anyone who believes that the British Army were there purely to keep the peace is utterly deluded.

 

If you are going to make a statement like that, can you then please directly say what you think their primary purpose is?

[wibble]

 

The only bit I was interested in that could have been relevant to the argument, was the bit about SAS soldiers dressing up as Iraqis and killing people to stir up trouble between groups of civilians, which sounds like BS to me, and I couldn't find anything to back that allegation up in any of the articles you linked to. Can you be more specific?

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CZRBuuoWQA&feature=related

 

The official story is that they were conducting "investigations" into Iraqi police brutality.

 

You have to ask the question, "Why do you need a car full of guns and explosives to investigate police behaviour?" You may need guns in Iraq for such a mission, but no way can explosives be explained.

 

http://www.ukwatch.net/article/the_sas_in_basra

 

Picture of the equipment confiscated can be seen here:

 

http://www.blogigo.co.uk/socialdemocracynow/INCIDENT-BASRA-THE-ROSETTA-STONE-IRAQI-INSURGENT-TERRORISM/24/

 

It has since been removed from Yahoo. I wonder why?

[wibble]

That was the point. The chaps on this thread are of the 'feck them they are all the same, it's us v them, school of thought.

 

 

Now you'll have the usual suspects out there bricking the windows of the local Sikh's. Don't you see how you are fuelling the fires of ignorance? :bomb2:

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

No it's not. It is a fabricated pile of garbage that has been cobbled together from different speeches and statements, all taken out of context and manipulated for the benefit of rednecks the world over.

 

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/australia.asp

 

Much of what is in it was said at one time or another but the context of what was said is very important.

 

I stand corrected. I'm sure I read that somewhere over here though.

[wibble]

I stand corrected. I'm sure I read that somewhere over here though.

 

If you google a key sentence from it you'll see that it is quoted ad nauseum all over the web on blogs etc. but doesn't appear on any news source.

 

Very cleverly created and it reads just like something that Howard would have said (because he WAS a little nazi).

 

Good example of how a lie becomes a fact once it has been repeated online often enough.

 

I had to search high and low just to convince myself that it was indeed a dud.

[felix]

Can't believe the issue of a dozen or so protesters has stirred up the vitriol it has !

 

Dont forget; only a handful of protesters turned up yesterday, in a town with one of Britains highest muslim populations.

[Boris]

Whilst I agree with everything else you have said in this thread, I have to take you up on this point.

 

Although my example is specific to the UN rather than the UK it affects all of us.

 

http://www.unwatch.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=bdKKISNqEmG&b=1316871&ct=6829271

 

After reading that article, I can't see how anyone could disagree that there are many Muslims representatives (who cannot be dismissed as a fringe munority, or as fundamentalists with no power) , who want to push their Islamic agenda on to Western countries, to the detrement of the freedoms and values that we hold dear.

 

In my opinion, our focus on "Multiculturalism" has impacted on our ability to criticise certain wrongs if those wrongs are being commited for religious reasons.

 

An interesting article.

 

I'm wary of any religion that wishes to enshrine its dogma via secular laws. See the UK's blasphemy laws for example.

 

I agree with your parting comment too but would add that our lack of secular strength leads us to bending over for all religions, indigenous and imported.

[JamTarts1874]

That was the point. The chaps on this thread are of the 'feck them they are all the same, it's us v them, school of thought.

 

 

Another generalisation...

[mickmaroon]

Can't believe the issue of a dozen or so protesters has stirred up the vitriol it has !

 

Dont forget; only a handful of protesters turned up yesterday, in a town with one of Britains highest muslim populations.

 

Indeed, and what do more representative Muslim organisations have to say about the protest?

 

http://www.mcb.org.uk/media/presstext.php?ann_id=336

[joe kickass2]

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. -- Karl Marx

 

 

Funny how most people interpret the "Religion is the opium of the people" as religion being drip fed like an opiate to suppress the people. Whereas, the meaning Marx meant was that religion was like a crutch (sorry mixed metaphor) something that the oppressed used to struggle on with.

 

Anyway, he's still a moribund extremist. Only of interest to tyrants and bread queue enthusiasts.

[speedbump]

That was the point. The chaps on this thread are of the 'feck them they are all the same, it's us v them, school of thought.

 

 

Putting words in peoples mouths in threads like this is very dangerous.

[Nucky Thompson]

In todays Star. One of the hate filled savages holding a placard works at Luton airport loading bags on to planes:saddam: He was caught taking photos of transatlantic planes last year but was released when he said he was interested in planes:shifty:

[wibble]

In todays Star. One of the hate filled savages ..... works at Luton airport loading bags on to planes

 

I don't think you can stop a BNP member from working in an airport ?

[wibble]

Whilst I agree with everything else you have said in this thread, I have to take you up on this point.

 

Although my example is specific to the UN rather than the UK it affects all of us.

 

http://www.unwatch.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=bdKKISNqEmG&b=1316871&ct=6829271

 

After reading that article, I can't see how anyone could disagree that there are many Muslims representatives (who cannot be dismissed as a fringe munority, or as fundamentalists with no power) , who want to push their Islamic agenda on to Western countries, to the detrement of the freedoms and values that we hold dear.

 

In my opinion, our focus on "Multiculturalism" has impacted on our ability to criticise certain wrongs if those wrongs are being commited for religious reasons.

 

But surely the UN is bombarded with crackpot resolutions on a daily basis?? This resolution reads exactly as something from the Vatican would. As Boris says - any blasphemy type legislation is an afront to civil liberties. I reserve my right to call a fantacist a fantacist.

 

I would like to see a harder line taken against those pushing their religious agendas, but it must be taken against all of them, not one individual religion. Remove tax free status from the lot of them and ban religion from state funded schools. But that's probably another thread.

[mickmaroon]

I don't think you can stop a BNP member from working in an airport ?

 

Well this guy won't be working in an airport anytime soon:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdWY7lfUF_0&feature=related

[Nucky Thompson]

I don't think you can stop a BNP member from working in an airport ?

It would be safe to say that a BNP member wouldn't want to blow an aircraft full of innocent people out of the sky. Could you say the same about a radical Muslim extremist?

[Say What Again]

That was the point. The chaps on this thread are of the 'feck them they are all the same, it's us v them, school of thought.

 

Absolute bollocks - and well you know it.

 

As others have suggested above, branding every single person on this thread who has disagreed with the protests in the OP, is worse than anything anyone else has said on this thread except for a couple of 'Mod Edits' and I didn't see what they said. I see one of the posters edited has been suspended, you can't be far away either with posts like that.

[Boris]

It would be safe to say that a BNP member wouldn't want to blow an aircraft full of innocent people out of the sky. Could you say the same about a radical Muslim extremist?

 

Really? What about David Copeland then?

[wibble]

Really? What about David Copeland then?

 

:biglaugh:

[I.J]

Really? What about David Copeland then?

 

Zing!

[Nucky Thompson]

Really? What about David Copeland then?

The guy was more a psychopath than an extremist.

[Say What Again]

The guy was more a psychopath than an extremist.

 

And a lone example too.

 

Compare it with:

 

# 4 September 1972 - Munich Olympic Massacre.

# 18 April 1983 - April 1983 U.S. Embassy bombing in Beirut, Lebanon. 63 killed.

# 26 February 1993 - World Trade Center bombing, New York City. 6 killed.

# 13 March 1993 - 1993 Bombay bombings. Mumbai, India. The single-day attacks resulted in over 250 civilian fatalities and 700 injuries.

# 24 December 1994 - Air France Flight 8969 hijacking in Algiers by 3 members of Armed Islamic Group and another terrorist. 7 killed including 4 hijackers.

# 25 June 1996 - Khobar Towers bombing, 20 killed, 372 wounded.

# 14 February 1998. The 1998 Coimbatore bombings occurred in the city of Coimbatore, Tamil Nadu, India. 46 people were killed and over 200 were injured in 13 bomb attacks within a 12 km radius.

# 7 August 1998 - 1998 United States embassy bombings in Tanzania and Kenya. 224 dead. 4000+ injured.

# 12 October 2000 - USS Cole bombing, 56 killed

# 11 September 2001 - 4 planes hijacked and crashed into World Trade Center and The Pentagon by 19 hijackers. Nearly 3000 dead.[122]

# 13 December 2001 - Suicide attack on India's parliament in New Delhi. Aimed at eliminating the top leadership of India and causing anarchy in the country. Allegedly done by Pakistan-based Islamist terrorist organizations, Jaish-E-Mohammad and Lashkar-e-Toiba.

# 3 March 2002 - Suicide bomb attack on a Passover Seder in a Hotel in Netanya, Israel. 29 dead, 133 injured

# 9 March 2002 - Caf? suicide bombing in Jerusalem; 11 killed, 54 injured.

# 7 May 2002 - Bombing in al-Arbaa, Algeria. 49 dead, 117 injured.

# 24 September 2002 - Machine Gun attack on Hindu temple in Ahmedabad, India. 31 dead, 86 injured.[123][124]

# 12 October 2002 - Bombing in Bali nightclub. 202 killed, 300 injured.[125]

# 16 May 2004 - Casablanca Attacks - 4 simultaneous attacks in Casablanca killing 33 civilians (mostly Moroccans) carried by Salafaia Jihadia.

# 11 March 2004 - Multiple bombings on trains near Madrid, Spain. 191 killed, 1460 injured. (alleged link to Al-Qaeda)

# 3 September 2004 Approximately 344 civilians including 186 children, are killed during the Beslan school hostage crisis.[126][127]

# 2 November 2004 - Ritual murder of Theo van Gogh (film director) by Amsterdam-born jihadist Mohammed Bouyeri.

# 4 February 2005 - Muslim militants attacked the Christian community in Demsa, Nigeria, killing 36 people, destroying property and displacing an additional 3000 people.

# 7 July 2005 - Multiple bombings in London Underground. 53 killed by four suicide bombers. Nearly 700 injured.

# 23 July 2005 - Bomb attacks at Sharm el-Sheikh, an Egyptian resort city, at least 64 people killed.

# 29 October 2005 - 29 October 2005 Delhi bombings. Over 60 killed and over 180 injured in a series of three attacks in crowded markets and a bus, just 2 days before the Diwali festival.[128]

# 9 November 2005 - 2005 Amman bombings. Over 60 killed and 115 injured, in a series of coordinated suicide attacks on hotels in Amman, Jordan.[129][130] Four attackers including a husband and wife team were involved.[131]

# 7 March 2006 - 2006 Varanasi bombings. An attack attributed to Lashkar-e-Toiba by Uttar Pradesh government officials, over 28 killed and over 100 injured, in a series of attacks in the Sankath Mochan Hanuman temple and Cantonment Railway Station in the Hindu holy city of Varanasi.[132] Uttar Pradesh government officials.

# 11 July 2006. Mumbai, India. 11 July 2006 Mumbai train bombings were a series of seven bomb blasts that took place over a period of 11 minutes on the Suburban Railway in Mumbai (formerly known as Bombay). 209 people lost their lives and over 700 were injured in the attacks.

# 26 July 2008. Ahmedabad, India. Islamic militants detonate at least 16 explosive devices in the heart of this industrial capital, leaving at least 49 dead and 160 injured. A Muslim group calling itself the Indian Mujahideen claims responsibility. Indian authorities believe that extremists with ties to Pakistan and/or Bangladesh are likely responsible and are intent on inciting communal violence[133]. Investigation by Indian police led to the eventual arrest of a number of militants suspected of carrying out the blasts, most of whom belong to a well-known terrorist group, The Students Islamic Movement of India[134].

# 26 November 2008. Mumbai, India. Muslim extremists kill at least 174 people and wound numerous others in a serious of coordinated attacks on India's largest city and financial capital. A group calling itself the Deccan Mujaheddin claims responsibility, however, the government of India suspects Islamic militants based in Pakistan are responsible.

[I.J]

And a lone example too.

 

I'm sure in the last 30 odd years as per your examples that there has been more than one white, "christian" psychopath blowing people up.

[Say What Again]

I'm sure in the last 30 odd years as per your examples that there has been more than one white, "christian" psychopath blowing people up.

 

Wasn't the original argument about BNP members? Now you're altering it to white christians.

 

EDIT:

 

Yep, it was.

 

 

Originally Posted by MelbourneJambo

I don't think you can stop a BNP member from working in an airport ?

Originally Posted by The Boo

It would be safe to say that a BNP member wouldn't want to blow an aircraft full of innocent people out of the sky. Could you say the same about a radical Muslim extremist?

[I.J]

Wasn't the original argument about BNP members? Now you're altering it to white christians.

 

EDIT:

 

Yep, it was.

 

Fair enough.

 

I take it all of your examples were members of the same political party then?

[wibble]

Wasn't the original argument about BNP members? Now you're altering it to white christians.

 

EDIT:

 

Yep, it was.

 

 

and the original thread was about muslims in Britain ... so reduce your list to 1 item.

[Sparky]

Wasn't the original argument about BNP members? Now you're altering it to white christians.

 

EDIT:

 

Yep, it was.

 

How about comparing number of attrocities committed per Muslim against number committed per BNP supporter. I'd wager that BNP supporters would come out looking worse.

[Say What Again]

I take it all of your examples were members of the same political party then?

 

All Muslim extremists - like the original question stated.

[Say What Again]

How about comparing number of attrocities committed per Muslim against number committed per BNP supporter. I'd wager that BNP supporters would come out looking worse.

 

Depends what are you going to class as an 'atrocity'? Graffiti? Verbal abuse?

 

I'm not condoning either of the above before some smart arse suggests I'm saying they're acceptable

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Absolute bollocks - and well you know it.

 

As others have suggested above, branding every single person on this thread who has disagreed with the protests in the OP, is worse than anything anyone else has said on this thread except for a couple of 'Mod Edits' and I didn't see what they said. I see one of the posters edited has been suspended, you can't be far away either with posts like that.

 

Who branded every single person that??

 

I actually disagree with the protests as well, FWIW, I'm just having a laugh at the tone of some posters (not you so don't start)

 

Wind yer neck in man.

[I.J]

All Muslim extremists - like the original question stated.

 

I'm honestly failing to see you point then. Is it that radical muslim extremists have blown up more people than David Copeland?

 

I don't think anyone would disagree, however it's a bit obvious.

[felix]

And a lone example too.

 

Compare it with:

 

.

 

The figures you quote are attributable to many things, and date back 35 years.

The thread's about troops in Iraq.

 

Even if you tot up all the casualties you've cut & pasted - it doesn't get near the 100,000 + civilian casualties in Iraq - which (if I'm not mistaken) is at the heart of what the (dozen or so !) protesters were shouting about .

[Say What Again]

The figures you quote are attributable to many things, and date back 35 years.

The thread's about troops in Iraq.

 

Even if you tot up all the casualties you've cut & pasted - it doesn't get near the 100,000 + civilian casualties in Iraq - which (if I'm not mistaken) is at the heart of what the (dozen or so !) protesters were shouting about .

 

Yes it is, but my post was in response to a post comparing the BNP and their acts to that of muslim extremists.

[wibble]

Yes it is, but my post was in response to a post comparing the BNP and their acts to that of muslim extremists.

 

The BNP are just as moronic, but as you have proved, they are nowhere near as hard.

 

Nazis - 0 Mooosies - 1

[Say What Again]

The BNP are just as moronic, but as you have proved, they are nowhere near as hard.

 

Nazis - 0 Mooosies - 1

 

Glad to be of assistance

[Boris]

Yes it is, but my post was in response to a post comparing the BNP and their acts to that of muslim extremists.

 

My point re Copeland was in response to

It would be safe to say that a BNP member wouldn't want to blow an aircraft full of innocent people out of the sky

 

I don't think it is safe to say, given that a BNP member was happy to bomb a pub full of innocent people.

 

Fundamentalist Muslims who want to martyr themselves are strokers too.

 

This argument isn't black and white (pun intended) or if you're against one side you must therefore be for the polar opposite.

 

Comparing extremists is a bizarre thing anyway - as by their very nature they are extremists!

[Tynie b]

People suspended on this Thread...Were's the Free Speach Now???

 

I have never Voted BNP in my life, But, will now look at their policies in any future elections!!!

[nanananananana-angus]

Can't believe the issue of a dozen or so protesters has stirred up the vitriol it has !

 

Dont forget; only a handful of protesters turned up yesterday, in a town with one of Britains highest muslim populations.

 

Maybe the Sun should print a few cartoons about the prophet and then we'll see some proper vitriol won't we.

[wibble]

People suspended on this Thread...Were's the Free Speach Now???

 

I have never Voted BNP in my life, But, will now look at their policies in any future elections!!!

 

Because someone got suspended on this thread????? Insane!!!

[I.J]

Maybe the Sun should print a few cartoons about the prophet and then we'll see some proper vitriol won't we.

 

I get the impression that there would be several parties on both "sides" who would enjoy that.

[Say What Again]

Because someone got suspended on this thread????? Insane!!!

 

[Tynie b]

Because someone got suspended on this thread????? Insane!!!

 

Nope, because I'm F***** Off listening to a shower of Immigrants shouting their Bile about the country the Live in...If they hate it that much, GTF!!!

 

Yes, before you ask, Even if they were born here...They want Free speach, lets see them get it in their "Homeland"...As I've said before,If we go to live in their society we have to live by THEIR Laws...They come over here and we are STILL expected to live by THEIR Laws!!

 

They spout bile about the corupt West, want to start a War against the West, Threaten Inocent people and we're expected to let them get on with it, all in the name of the Free speach they don't get back home!!

 

I have NOTHING against, Asians, blacks or Poles etc...Who come here and adapt to the Country of their choice, I have no problem with their religion (All Gods are made up!!). Most go about everyday life like normal hard working citizens...No problem with that...The ones, like the protesters the other day, Straight in the back of a Van, First flight out...Cheerifekino, C****!!

[wibble]

Has anyone noticed their blood coming down to a simmer yet? Or does this topic need further discussion?

 

Reminds me of my old friend Irvine Jambo - who would have been shaking with rage because his missus was an Indian (Bollywood actress in fact).

 

Who is pumping her now I wonder? Shaun Lawson?

[euan64]

Oh dear, it looks like attitudes are returning to the 30's. This could be a scary couple of years if the BNP start gaining momentum.

[Sheriff Fatman]

I have NOTHING against, Asians, blacks or Poles etc...Who come here and adapt to the Country of their choice, I have no problem with their religion (All Gods are made up!!). Most go about everyday life like normal hard working citizens...No problem with that...The ones, like the protesters the other day, Straight in the back of a Van, First flight out...Cheerifekino, C****!!

So because of the actions of an increadibly small minority who held up a couple of placards you are concidering voting for a party that wants to throw every last one of them out.

[Maximus]

Nope, because I'm F***** Off listening to a shower of Immigrants shouting their Bile about the country the Live in...If they hate it that much, GTF!!!

 

Yes, before you ask, Even if they were born here...They want Free speach, lets see them get it in their "Homeland"...As I've said before,If we go to live in their society we have to live by THEIR Laws...They come over here and we are STILL expected to live by THEIR Laws!!

 

They spout bile about the corupt West, want to start a War against the West, Threaten Inocent people and we're expected to let them get on with it, all in the name of the Free speach they don't get back home!!

 

I have NOTHING against, Asians, blacks or Poles etc...Who come here and adapt to the Country of their choice, I have no problem with their religion (All Gods are made up!!). Most go about everyday life like normal hard working citizens...No problem with that...The ones, like the protesters the other day, Straight in the back of a Van, First flight out...Cheerifekino, C****!!

Ahhh, this free speech lark does have it's drawbacks