Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 - Wolves are ineligible for the Scottish Cup; the English Cup has many, many more strong protagonists than our one. - We got such a massive friendly crowd because it was against Barcelona, played in a huge stadium. - What's participation in the UEFA Cup groups when set against participation in the Premier League? Many EPL managers already have the answer to that, continually prioritising the league. It would appear that players feel little different. So what reasons are Wolves bigger then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 So what reasons are Wolves bigger then? Their potential and their history. It's actually they who are probably world famous because of the Honved game - and coming from a big, industrial city is a very clear advantage over a touristy, commercial one (except in the cases of London's three big, established clubs). Bear in mind that I hate Wolves with a passion: very few clubs ever attract my ire to such an extent, but they have. I've never, ever regarded their claim to 'bigness' as delusional though: they're right. And they're still a very attractive club for managers and players alike because of it. Incidentally, I had quite a barney with a Baggies-supporting mate when I said that Wolves were obviously bigger than West Brom. He wasn't having any of it! I was right, though. Because I always am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigolo-Aunt Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Their potential and their history. It's actually they who are probably world famous because of the Honved game - and coming from a big, industrial city is a very clear advantage over a touristy, commercial one (except in the cases of London's three big, established clubs). Bear in mind that I hate Wolves with a passion: very few clubs ever attract my ire to such an extent, but they have. I've never, ever regarded their claim to 'bigness' as delusional though: they're right. And they're still a very attractive club for managers and players alike because of it. Incidentally, I had quite a barney with a Baggies-supporting mate when I said that Wolves were obviously bigger than West Brom. He wasn't having any of it! I was right, though. Because I always am. What Honved game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 What Honved game? http://www.wolves.co.uk/page/History/0,,10307~62257,00.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 What Honved game? 1954. They still talk about it on the interweb. Wolves lost a UEFA cup final as well, IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 What Honved game? I'd never heard of it either but.... http://www.wolves.co.uk/page/History/0,,10307~62257,00.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigolo-Aunt Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 http://www.wolves.co.uk/page/History/0,,10307~62257,00.html Cheers, never heard of it before. Obviously a huge game for Wolves and English football, but world famous? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I'd never heard of it either but.... http://www.wolves.co.uk/page/History/0,,10307~62257,00.html It would probably matter if Honved were a big club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 It would probably matter if Honved were a big club. They did have some biggish players though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Cheers, never heard of it before. Obviously a huge game for Wolves and English football, but world famous? Yes. For largely daft reasons: if you recall, English football was still so widely respected around that time that England were favourites going to the 1950 World Cup (with regard to which, oops!), and when Hungary came to Wembley to wallop the founders of football 6-3, it was regarded as a cataclysmic shock - which is ridiculous when you consider what a team they had, and that England's results were never anything like as good as the mythology often made out. And in 1954, there still wasn't a European Cup (which English clubs were expected to dominate when it finally commenced. Again, oops!) - making Wolves v Honved the unofficial European Cup Final. It was all over the press and wires at the time, and a legendary occasion; though certainly not worth the coverage it received, as events subsequently proved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Yes. For largely daft reasons: if you recall, English football was still so widely respected around that time that England were favourites going to the 1950 World Cup (with regard to which, oops!), and when Hungary came to Wembley to wallop the founders of football 6-3, it was regarded as a cataclysmic shock - which is ridiculous when you consider what a team they had, and that England's results were never anything like as good as the mythology often made out. And in 1954, there still wasn't a European Cup (which English clubs were expected to dominate when it finally commenced. Again, oops!) - making Wolves v Honved the unofficial European Cup Final. It was all over the press and wires at the time, and a legendary occasion; though certainly not worth the coverage it received, as events subsequently proved. Quite. Football was never the same once we let the continentals play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 It's hard to compare English and Scottish clubs because of the obvious massive difference in money and populations but I reckon if we were to go to England and get the financial backing/support we would be much, much bigger and more succesful than Wolves. I'm not sure what you mean by potential? What can they potentially do? Get promotion and than get relegated again within 2 or 3 seasons? I'm not fully clued up on Wolves history. I will have to do a bit of research when I've not had a few beers. We can potentially play in the Champions League and win our country major cups and we have a history to be proud of as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigolo-Aunt Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Yes. For largely daft reasons: if you recall, English football was still so widely respected around that time that England were favourites going to the 1950 World Cup (with regard to which, oops!), and when Hungary came to Wembley to wallop the founders of football 6-3, it was regarded as a cataclysmic shock - which is ridiculous when you consider what a team they had, and that England's results were never anything like as good as the mythology often made out. And in 1954, there still wasn't a European Cup (which English clubs were expected to dominate when it finally commenced. Again, oops!) - making Wolves v Honved the unofficial European Cup Final. It was all over the press and wires at the time, and a legendary occasion; though certainly not worth the coverage it received, as events subsequently proved. Knew about Englands 6-3 and all that. Surpised I had not heard about the Wolves bit. TBH, thats a hell of a long time ago though Shaun. We beat Bayern Munich 1-0 at home. With the squads of players, thats a bloody amazing feat. Hearts are bigger than Wolves will ever be. I have made up my mind. FACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 They did have some biggish players though. And were Hungarian Champions, boasting Puskas, Czibor, Kocsis and Bozsik, all world famous for their roles as Magic Magyars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven98 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I assume you mean 30,000 or 40,000 a week. We never achieved that ( as an average ) even in the heyday of football in the 50s. It will never happen imo. However, 2005 showed we could probably go to an average of 20k or so.... Were we not regularly getting 20k plus for home games during the mid-80s? I seem to remember that but I am getting old and senile now........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Were we not regularly getting 20k plus for home games during the mid-80s? I seem to remember that but I am getting old and senile now........ http://www.londonhearts.com/charts/averagel.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Apologies to all for the obvious self-indulgence of this entirely subjective, personal list - especially as we discussed it on another thread only a month or two back! Anyhoo - in Britain: 1. Manchester United 2. Liverpool 3. Celtic 4. Arsenal 5. Chelsea 6. Rangers 7. Newcastle United 8. Tottenham Hotspur 9. Everton 10. Aston Villa 11. Manchester City 12. Leeds United 13. Wolverhampton Wanderers 14. Sunderland 15. Birmingham City 16. Sheffield Wednesday (starts getting tricky and more and more arguable at this point) 17. Derby County 18. West Ham United 19. Nottingham Forest 20. Middlesbrough 21. West Bromwich Albion 22. Blackburn Rovers 23. Sheffield United 24. Leicester City 25. Bolton Wanderers 26. Portsmouth 27. Heart of Midlothian 28. Norwich City 29. Aberdeen 30. Ipswich Town Hmmm. Contentious list! I would agree that Wolves are a bigger club than us, thanks to their history, but does that make them a more attractive proposition? For example, you have Bolton as a smaller club than Wolves yet Bolton are now an established Premiership team so you could argue from that perspective that Bolton are actually bigger than Wolves (and a more attractive team). Similarly, Wigan, who aren't a big team, would still be a more attractive proposition than half the teams in that list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven98 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 http://www.londonhearts.com/charts/averagel.htm Yep - old and senile it is. "I remember the days when......" Always seemed like the crowds were bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 1954. They still talk about it on the interweb. Wolves lost a UEFA cup final as well, IIRC. Yep, to Spurs in 1972, I believe. That was the year after they beat us in the Texaco Cup Final, so I could suppose that clinches Shaun's argument! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 It's hard to compare English and Scottish clubs because of the obvious massive difference in money and populations but I reckon if we were to go to England and get the financial backing/support we would be much, much bigger and more succesful than Wolves. I'm not sure what you mean by potential? What can they potentially do? Get promotion and than get relegated again within 2 or 3 seasons? I'm not fully clued up on Wolves history. I will have to do a bit of research when I've not had a few beers. We can potentially play in the Champions League and win our country major cups and we have a history to be proud of as well. Much, much bigger? No. As big as, say, Derby are on my list? Yes - if everything went to plan, we were run properly, played in a much larger, state of the art stadium and so on. Wolves' potential can only be fully maximised once the football bubble has finally burst: they're the biggest of all the old-style clubs who've suffered in this era of sugardaddies (ironic, given Jack Hayward was one of the very first). As it is, sure, all they can presently aim for is a few years in the land of milk and honey, just as all Hearts can aim for is a Cup here or there and maybe spitting the OF in a one-off year. And we both have very proud histories, as you rightly say. It's entirely moot as to whether a club's size or potential even matters, other than to fans keen on claiming their team's appendage is that bit bigger than their rivals; but the phrase 'sleeping giant' could've been invented to describe Wolves. It wouldn't surprise me if it actually was, in fact! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emma Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Apologies to all for the obvious self-indulgence of this entirely subjective, personal list - especially as we discussed it on another thread only a month or two back! Anyhoo - in Britain: 1. Manchester United 2. Liverpool 3. Celtic 4. Arsenal 5. Chelsea 6. Rangers 7. Newcastle United 8. Tottenham Hotspur 9. Everton 10. Aston Villa 11. Manchester City 12. Leeds United 13. Wolverhampton Wanderers 14. Sunderland 15. Birmingham City 16. Sheffield Wednesday (starts getting tricky and more and more arguable at this point) 17. Derby County 18. West Ham United 19. Nottingham Forest 20. Middlesbrough 21. West Bromwich Albion 22. Blackburn Rovers 23. Sheffield United 24. Leicester City 25. Bolton Wanderers 26. Portsmouth 27. Heart of Midlothian 28. Norwich City 29. Aberdeen 30. Ipswich Town Narridge City!!?? Top 30:mw_rolleyes: You're very funny sometimes Shaun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Yep, to Spurs in 1972, I believe. That was the year after they beat us in the Texaco Cup Final, so I could suppose that clinches Shaun's argument! Hehehe! Out of interest, how seriously did clubs take the Texaco Cup? Especially the Scottish participants, I mean? It might provide a sense of how much interest there'd be in a British League Cup, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Narridge City!!?? Top 30:mw_rolleyes: You're very funny sometimes Shaun. http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/D1/attend.html http://stats.football365.com/2008/ENG/D1/attend.html http://stats.football365.com/2007/ENG/D1/attend.html http://stats.football365.com/2006/ENG/D1/attend.html In the seasons in question, Norwich finished 17th, 16th and 9th, and are currently 20th. The gates have been extraordinary given the dross continually served up. No doubt in my mind that NCFC are the biggest club in East Anglia; unfortunately, we're also a perenially underachieving one, and far less successful historically than our great rivals from south of the border. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Hmmm. Contentious list! I would agree that Wolves are a bigger club than us, thanks to their history, but does that make them a more attractive proposition? For example, you have Bolton as a smaller club than Wolves yet Bolton are now an established Premiership team so you could argue from that perspective that Bolton are actually bigger than Wolves (and a more attractive team). Similarly, Wigan, who aren't a big team, would still be a more attractive proposition than half the teams in that list. Certainly a very fair point. A club's size is obviously subordinate to what it can do right now; and while Leeds, Sheff Wed, Leicester, Norwich and Southampton all reside outside the EPL with little hope of returning in the short term, Wigan, Fulham and Bolton are all established in the top flight, and doing quite nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Ross Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 "Should" is the word you should be concetrating on. Our history is second to none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tott Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/D1/attend.html http://stats.football365.com/2008/ENG/D1/attend.html http://stats.football365.com/2007/ENG/D1/attend.html http://stats.football365.com/2006/ENG/D1/attend.html In the seasons in question, Norwich finished 17th, 16th and 9th, and are currently 20th. The gates have been extraordinary given the dross continually served up. No doubt in my mind that NCFC are the biggest club in East Anglia; unfortunately, we're also a perenially underachieving one, and far less successful historically than our great rivals from south of the border. Apart from Ipswich is there anybody else in that backward part of the Country? pretty ****,when east anglia is fondly remembered for "sale of the century" rather than its football teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Apart from Ipswich is there anybody else in that backward part of the Country? pretty ****,when east anglia is fondly remembered for "sale of the century" rather than its football teams. Hmph. Or for Noel Coward's description of Norfolk, indeed! Also in East Anglia lurk the massive behemoths of, er, Peterborough United, Northampton Town, Cambridge United and, if Anglia TV's reach is anything to go by, Luton Town. You of course have a point - but few clubs in England have the advantage of being the focal point of an entire county (and the fanbase and young players that really ought to provide). In any case, East Anglia is the most forward, progressive part of the country - FACT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tott Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Hmph. Or for Noel Coward's description of Norfolk, indeed! Also in East Anglia lurk the massive behemoths of, er, Peterborough United, Northampton Town, Cambridge United and, if Anglia TV's reach is anything to go by, Luton Town. You of course have a point - but few clubs in England have the advantage of being the focal point of an entire county (and the fanbase and young players that really ought to provide). In any case, East Anglia is the most forward, progressive part of the country - FACT. MMmm thought it was just the two clubs.Luton ? ..thought there were on the london/birmingham corridor. Only been in Norwich once,enroute to great yarmouth Miles of flatness from the m1.never again. thought the wife is trying to talk me into taking her to cromer this summer to see friends. Norfolf en chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupid Sexy Flanders Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Berra "deserves to be treated well" when he wants to move club however other past players have been treated like traitors. It's a different story when it suits the Mad One. What a clown VR is. The one saving grace is that surely the most loyal VR fans will be able to see through this latest gem...... hopefully. The radio interview was schoolboy stuff and horribly transparent. Good luck to Berra - he's done the right thing and I'm sure he'll move on to greater things. I'll watch out for CB coming back and beating his Sellick badge. Oh wait, he didn't sign for the nonce-protectors. That's the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tynie Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Vlad is a touch mad so you have to accept the odd remark re his old 'enemies'. However, he seems a lot less mad now than he did last season. Let's just be pleased about that and hope it stays that way. Hell be alright Davy as long as he takes his Prozac at the proper time and proper doses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Their potential and their history. It's actually they who are probably world famous because of the Honved game is this Honved game as legendary in football history as the hubs being first in the European Cup? did Wolves teach Brazil how to play the beautiful game ? floodlights ? what about shirt sponsorship ? electronic scoreboards ? wearing green ? wolves very well may be a big club, but shirley not because of a game from 56 years ago - i can see the we'rewolvesbutreallywanttobehobos.net first to wear gold/orange (what colour do they play in ?) George Best' English team flair Honved etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Wiseau Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Knew about Englands 6-3 and all that. Surpised I had not heard about the Wolves bit. TBH, thats a hell of a long time ago though Shaun. We beat Bayern Munich 1-0 at home. With the squads of players, thats a bloody amazing feat. Hearts are bigger than Wolves will ever be. I have made up my mind. FACT You say it as a joke, but it is a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Berra "deserves to be treated well" when he wants to move club however other past players have been treated like traitors. It's a different story when it suits the Mad One. What a clown VR is. The one saving grace is that surely the most loyal VR fans will be able to see through this latest gem...... hopefully. The radio interview was schoolboy stuff and horribly transparent. Good luck to Berra - he's done the right thing and I'm sure he'll move on to greater things. I think it depends on how they conduct themselves. Berra's conduct has been excellent - Webster's (or/and his agent's) was atrocious. Elvis hijacked a press conference to slate his employer - regardless of if you agree with his reasons, you can not do this and expect no repercussions. So sorry, there is no contradiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Independence Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Berra "deserves to be treated well" when he wants to move club however other past players have been treated like traitors. It's a different story when it suits the Mad One. What a clown VR is. The one saving grace is that surely the most loyal VR fans will be able to see through this latest gem...... hopefully. The radio interview was schoolboy stuff and horribly transparent. Good luck to Berra - he's done the right thing and I'm sure he'll move on to greater things. What nonsense! Perhaps Berra had a clause in his contract that allowed him to leave if a bid came in above a certain price. That is what most players have in their contracts when they agree to sign a new one! Hearts need the money, as do the majority of clubs, and this offer is one of the few that has been made for this sort of money during this transfer period! Get over it it happens at ALL clubs! As for the interview, well done Vlad. He made sure the weegie media remained confused and he still treats them with the contempt they deserve . Having supported Hearts for 50 years I agree with his stance. On another note I look forward to RS interviewing David Murray, Stewart Milne, Tom Farmer. They are all needing cash just now!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emma Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Whilst Hearts have only finished outside the top half of the SPL once since it took on its current form. In the not so distant past Wolves were in the lower leagues of English football and getting beaten by the likes of (the mighty) Mansfield Town. If you compare the silverware won by Ipswich Town and Norwich City and multiply it by the co-efficents used to assemble this top 30 Shaun put together, then the true kings of East Anglia would be ... Colchester United, or even Great Yarmouth Town. All rankings are subject to points deductions if your chairman/woman staggers on to the pitch to drunkenly address the crowd at half time on live TV. BTW. Isn't there a clip of Delia on YouTube appearing on a Noel Edmonds programme wearing a blue and white scarf and claiming to be an Ipswich Town fan? Hearts are bigger than Wolves ... BECAUSE THEY ARE!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Hearts are bigger than Wolves ... BECAUSE THEY ARE!!!! Emma, my Hearts says a definite YES, but my head..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 This might go against the grain but whilst HMFC are our club and we are Scotland's 3rd biggest club overall in terms of economic power - money available & average attendances Wolves are and have historically been a bigger club than Hearts which is due to demographics as much as anything else. The midlands clubs Birmingham, Aston Villa, Wolves, West Brom & Coventry all draw crowds either much bigger or slightly above Hearts level...that brings in more money over and above the extra dosh they get from TV & sponsorship etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adso7 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Wolves may well have been to a uefa cup final but, and this is a big but, how many times have they won the Tennent's Sixes? The true mark of a team's success. Still not convinced Hearts are bigger? What about the Festival Cup? Not seen ur beloved Wolves lifting that recently either!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emma Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Emma, my Hearts says a definite YES, but my head..... "You gotta listen to your heart!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.