we never sent fletcher off

[sandylejambo]

what is it with all these pundits on telly? it seems that if a hibs player gets sent off it's hearts fault, but if we say the ref got it wrong we are bringing the game into disreput, according to the fools on telly they understand why the ref sent fletcher off but he could have easily have given him a yellow card, what does that mean? we have the "fat fin" saying berra leaped like a brown trout, when anyone watching could see berra only went down, not up, but you would think by the tone of commentry that we were cheating when fletcher got his marching orders,, did i miss the part when our manager put on a refs uniform and gave the tw@t his marching orders? --- rant over

[maltese jambo]

what is it with all these pundits on telly? it seems that if a hibs player gets sent off it's hearts fault, but if we say the ref got it wrong we are bringing the game into disreput, according to the fools on telly they understand why the ref sent fletcher off but he could have easily have given him a yellow card, what does that mean? we have the "fat fin" saying berra leaped like a brown trout, when anyone watching could see berra only went down, not up, but you would think by the tone of commentry that we were cheating when fletcher got his marching orders,, did i miss the part when our manager put on a refs uniform and gave the tw@t his marching orders? --- rant over

 

Haven't been able to see the highlights yet; but from a photo i saw on the Scottish Cup pics on the BBC website it looked two footed to me; Honest opinions; was it a sending off?

[Jambo66]

Haven't been able to see the highlights yet; but from a photo i saw on the Scottish Cup pics on the BBC website it looked two footed to me; Honest opinions; was it a sending off?

 

I thought it was a little bit harsh, by which I mean that the offence was between a yellow and a red card, if that makes any sense!!! However, Fletcher was very lucky not to be booked just after Balogh had his save when Fletcher was clean through.

 

I don't know if it's been said on another thread, but am I the only person who finds it extremely disturbing that the referee apparently watched a re-run of the sending off at half time??? What for? He was apparently satisfied with his decision, but would he have behaved differently in the second half if he felt he had got it wrong??? If he looked at that incident, did he also look at Bamba's 2 footed lunch which apparently merited only a word, or Riordan's late challenge on Berra which didn't even merit a word?

[bean counter]

I don't know if it's been said on another thread, but am I the only person who finds it extremely disturbing that the referee apparently watched a re-run of the sending off at half time??? What for? He was apparently satisfied with his decision, but would he have behaved differently in the second half if he felt he had got it wrong???

 

I totally agree why was the ref looking at re runs at half time it could easily influence his second half performance.

 

I thought I heard Chick Young at half time say I've just come from the referees room and can confirm that Makalamby (sp) is being substituted did any one else hear it ? Why would he be allowed anywhere near the refs room at half time ?

[maltese jambo]

I thought it was a little bit harsh, by which I mean that the offence was between a yellow and a red card, if that makes any sense!!!

 

Got you; thats the general impression i got; BBC live text didnt seem to have any arguments about it and only a few murmurings from the hibs fans.

[4marsbars]

I thought it was a little bit harsh, by which I mean that the offence was between a yellow and a red card, if that makes any sense!!! However, Fletcher was very lucky not to be booked just after Balogh had his save when Fletcher was clean through.

 

I don't know if it's been said on another thread, but am I the only person who finds it extremely disturbing that the referee apparently watched a re-run of the sending off at half time??? What for? He was apparently satisfied with his decision, but would he have behaved differently in the second half if he felt he had got it wrong??? If he looked at that incident, did he also look at Bamba's 2 footed lunch which apparently merited only a word, or Riordan's late challenge on Berra which didn't even merit a word?

 

 

To be fair, the ref had a word (didn't he?).

 

Riordan was lucky not to be booked though, for what seemed a pretty clear piece of retaliation. Given his later booking, he was therefore lucky not to have been sent off.

 

Not that it matters.

 

Hearts can have no complaint about the refereeing for the second week in a row. I thought we were walking a tightrope with Berra (who rarely gets booked) picking up his third booking since Christmas, to be followed by Zal (fortunately late one)

[john brownlee]

I thought it was a little bit harsh, by which I mean that the offence was between a yellow and a red card, if that makes any sense!!! However, Fletcher was very lucky not to be booked just after Balogh had his save when Fletcher was clean through.

 

I don't know if it's been said on another thread, but am I the only person who finds it extremely disturbing that the referee apparently watched a re-run of the sending off at half time??? What for? He was apparently satisfied with his decision, but would he have behaved differently in the second half if he felt he had got it wrong??? If he looked at that incident, did he also look at Bamba's 2 footed lunch which apparently merited only a word, or Riordan's late challenge on Berra which didn't even merit a word?

 

 

After Balogh's save, fletcher gives Berra a punch whilst still on the ground (clearly lost it) not picked up by the ref or maybe it was and that could have had the deciding factor in red carding fletcher. The ref maybe thinking better now than later when fletcher may have seriously injured a Hearts player.

Like Csaba says we keep out discipline the hobos lost theirs

[Jambo83]

I said the same thing to my mates yesterday, if Berra's was a booking, then Fletcher's HAD to be a red. Simple as that.

 

If anyone had any complaints over dodgy decisions, it was Hearts!! Stevenson should have been sent walking for his two-footed lunge on Ruben, Riordan & JJ should have booked for late fouls infront of the shed.

 

Hibs = Deluded

[davieholt]

I thought, at the time, it was a yellow. Typical forward's challenge but no more than that.

 

But as the OP says, it wasn't Hearts that sent him off it was the ref - and I still think he was harsh.

 

It's actually quite nice to be on the other side of these decisions for a change

[Fraggle]

what is it with all these pundits on telly? it seems that if a hibs player gets sent off it's hearts fault, but if we say the ref got it wrong we are bringing the game into disreput, according to the fools on telly they understand why the ref sent fletcher off but he could have easily have given him a yellow card, what does that mean? we have the "fat fin" saying berra leaped like a brown trout, when anyone watching could see berra only went down, not up, but you would think by the tone of commentry that we were cheating when fletcher got his marching orders,, did i miss the part when our manager put on a refs uniform and gave the tw@t his marching orders? --- rant over

 

 

That really annoyed me last night from the BBC! Was it Craig Paterson that was giving it "you can clearly see from this angle that Fletchers feet went into the ground, not Berra's ankle blah blah blah. The Hearts skipper was getting out the way blah blah blah, can see why the ref sent him off but Berra made the most of a forwards challenge blah blah". It was a poor challenge, maybe not a straight red, but it was two footed, he followed through and clattered Berra a sore one and there was definate contact.

 

 

How annoying were the commentators on Sky Sports yesterday! Constantly going on and on about how angry the Fat Finn was with the referees decision to send off Fletcher. They brought it up every two minutes "we hear that Mixu is very angry about the ref's performance blah blah". Who gives a flying toss what the Tattieheaded one thinks!!

[Francis Albert]

At first viewing from the ref's angle I thought straight red. Replays from various angles suggested it was borderline red/yellow but a red certainly not an unreasonable call. Neither Fletcher nor other Hibs players seemed to object very strongly at the time. Some of the commentators seem to have invented a new rule that Berra should have been seriously hurt before a red card could be justified.

[JamboJen]

I don't know if it's been said on another thread, but am I the only person who finds it extremely disturbing that the referee apparently watched a re-run of the sending off at half time??? What for? He was apparently satisfied with his decision, but would he have behaved differently in the second half if he felt he had got it wrong??? If he looked at that incident, did he also look at Bamba's 2 footed lunch which apparently merited only a word, or Riordan's late challenge on Berra which didn't even merit a word?

 

Exactly what I thought when I heard that. The ref shouldn't be seeing anything again until the match is over. What if he decides he was wrong? Does he award Hibs a soft penalty, or send a Hearts player off to make up for it?

 

I'm pretty sure in England they've changed the rules so that no TVs are allowed in the dugout etc for managers to see replays which they can then hound the ref about, surely it's not too much to ask that the broadcaster doesn't shove a TV in the ref's face and ask for a comment at half time.

[Mr Nobody]

Thought it was a bit harsh but he should have been booked after his chance to score anyway and Bambi's two footed lunge was a straight red.

 

 

So he probably didn't deserve a straight red for that but Hibs still deserved to have a player sent off.

 

 

Also think Berra's fall made it look worse than it was. His leg seemed to catch a little bit under him when he went down.

[it_hearts]

Every other time a ref makes a big decision , that he may have got wrong , pundits, media , always say that the ref has to make a decision right away without slow motion help etc. So whats the difference with this decision? To me at the game it looked a straight red , and it must've looked the same to the ref.

We more than anybody know how a ref can make the wrong decision. Stop with the excuses mixu, your team where 2nd best on the day, and the right team won.

Oh , and is it not embarrassing to be playing a cup tie against your biggest rivals at home and still not get a sell out. PATHETIC.:108years:

[Ray Winstone]

At the game in real time it was a sending off.

 

All the Hibs fans I had the miss-fortune to be sitting with agreed and there was certainly no uproar in the stand I was in.

 

Replays show that it was a harsh decision and was perhaps not a sending off.....the referee having not had the benifit of this sent him off.

 

Not our fault chaps.

[loveofthegame]

Having just watched it again i can completely see why Thomson made the decision as when you see it full speed for the 1st time it looks awful. However when you see it in slow-mo and from different angles it doesn't look quite as bad. It was only 1 footed and he takes as much of the ground as he takes of Berra.

 

But i don't for a minute think Berra made a meal of it, it clearly hurt him.

 

To sum up.... stupid rash challenge.

[Spellczech]

Spoken to 2 referees today and both agree Thomson got it right. Interestingly neither proferred an opinion to me when I had previously asked about Brines sending off Zaliukas at Aberdeen...

[moyseuk2000]

as all can see clear as day both feet of the ground

[jack D and coke]

Haven't been able to see the highlights yet; but from a photo i saw on the Scottish Cup pics on the BBC website it looked two footed to me; Honest opinions; was it a sending off?

When i watched it yesterday i thought the ref got it bang on but with the benefit of 3 or 4 different angles and slow mo replays he didn't catch him badly. I think the intent was there and then he's tried to pull back a bit when it was too late. I dont think he can have too many complaints about it tbh. They got away with a couple of others so its bums and t*ts if you ask me. Quite frankly giruy hobo slags!

[The Old Tolbooth]

I said the same thing to my mates yesterday, if Berra's was a booking, then Fletcher's HAD to be a red. Simple as that.

 

If anyone had any complaints over dodgy decisions, it was Hearts!! Stevenson should have been sent walking for his two-footed lunge on Ruben, Riordan & JJ should have booked for late fouls infront of the shed.

 

Hibs = Deluded

 

Add to that the fact that Murray should have walked for violent conduct when he clearly shoved Nade out of the way and had his hands raised, and the hobo's could easily have been down to 7 or 8 players, and they say our discipline is bad!?!?!?!

 

Feckin muppets!

[jambojim52]

On seeing it from the angle the ref was at, it was a straight red. Other angles ( ones the ref has no chance of seeing ) it look harsh. However, I thought bamba's two footed lunge was worse and could easily have been a red too.Then just after Fletch went off rearend dives in to Berra and he could have seen a yellow. As for his gesture it should have been a red too. Hibs IMHO got off lightly and half their team ( if they still have them) should miss their next cup game NEXT YEAR

[Jarhead]

Haven't been able to see the highlights yet; but from a photo i saw on the Scottish Cup pics on the BBC website it looked two footed to me; Honest opinions; was it a sending off?

 

At the time I thought it looked like a shocking tackle.

Sometimes a ref may take the conditions or the fact it was a derby into consideration and only give a yellow. Sometimes it's a straight red.

 

Some of the medias double standards are getting out of hand now. How can the previously (relativly) sane Nevin defend Hibs whilst saying Brines was right in sending off of Zal because "he was standing aggresivly"?

I was actually embaressed watching Mixus interview, he took being a bad loser to a whole new level. Do the hibs board specifically look for this character trait when they appoint their managers?

[The Puppeteer]

Haven't been able to see the highlights yet; but from a photo i saw on the Scottish Cup pics on the BBC website it looked two footed to me; Honest opinions; was it a sending off?

 

No doubt about it IMO, jumped in with two feet and can have no complaints. It's really irrelevant what contact was made. The point is that a tackle like that could do someone a serious injury and has to be punished accordingly.

[Miller Jambo 60]

No doubt about it IMO, jumped in with two feet and can have no complaints. It's really irrelevant what contact was made. The point is that a tackle like that could do someone a serious injury and has to be punished accordingly.

 

Charlie Nikerless was a hoot yesterday.

He clearly hates us.

Was like a wee bairn at the end of the game.

Lost Dummy me thinks:108years::108years::108years:

 

 

 

MAJIC

[Miller Jambo 60]

At the time I thought it looked like a shocking tackle.

Sometimes a ref may take the conditions or the fact it was a derby into consideration and only give a yellow. Sometimes it's a straight red.

 

Some of the medias double standards are getting out of hand now. How can the previously (relativly) sane Nevin defend Hibs whilst saying Brines was right in sending off of Zal because "he was standing aggresivly"?

I was actually embaressed watching Mixus interview, he took being a bad loser to a whole new level. Do the hibs board specifically look for this character trait when they appoint their managers?

 

Was not a red at the worst a yellow.

But hey ho thats the breaks.

About time we got a break.

Have commited worst tackles and not got spoken to.

He was unlucky but im laughing:laugh:

[269miles]

At first viewing from the ref's angle I thought straight red. Replays from various angles suggested it was borderline red/yellow but a red certainly not an unreasonable call. Neither Fletcher nor other Hibs players seemed to object very strongly at the time. Some of the commentators seem to have invented a new rule that Berra should have been seriously hurt before a red card could be justified.

 

A good point.

 

I watched the tackle again on SS1 and one of the commentary team says 'how much did Berra make of that'. No one condemned Fletcher for a reckless and dangerous tackle that vert nearly caused serious injury.

 

Add to that the comments on Skytext last night clearly inferring Berra was playacting.

[savage]

mate at work is a hobo season ticket holder, also a very honest man. he states that his team a useless and half of them are not fit for purpose. in that he includes ratboy, o'brien, makalamity, JJ, rankin and stevenson.

 

he agrees with flethcer's sending off and that it happened because he was playing poorly and could not handle it. he also sits right in front of the tackle on ruben and said it is without doubt a straight red for stevenson

[Jambo66]

At first viewing from the ref's angle I thought straight red. Replays from various angles suggested it was borderline red/yellow but a red certainly not an unreasonable call. Neither Fletcher nor other Hibs players seemed to object very strongly at the time. Some of the commentators seem to have invented a new rule that Berra should have been seriously hurt before a red card could be justified.

 

That reminds me of the game at Ibrox in 1998 which finished 2-2. I think it was Gough who was sent off for a lunge where he didn't make any contact at all. You could see him screaming at the ref that he hadn't made contact, but the ref sent him off for the intent.

 

I suspect that in this case, there is an argument that Fletcher's challenge was so reckless, that it doesn't matter how much contact he made with Berra.

 

Anyway, have Hibs lodged their appeal yet?

[lambojambo]

Anybody else see O'Brien clattering Wallace off the ball in the 2nd half?

[lambojambo]

Charlie Nikerless was a hoot yesterday.

He clearly hates us.

Was like a wee bairn at the end of the game.

Lost Dummy me thinks:108years::108years::108years:

 

 

 

MAJIC

 

 

 

Nicelerse does!

 

Being 'Celtic minded' he puts us in the Sons of William category and has a pop at all things Hearts at every opportunity!

 

Some of the bile he has written about Hearts and their fans has been well out of order! I get the feeling he really wants to have a go at Rangers but realises that the Bears with base ball bats would appear on his doorstep and Hearts are the easy target!

[wavydavy]

Or Zaliukas' yellow for a good tackle in which he played the ball but brought the man down in doing so, never a booking in a million years.

 

 

I thought it was a little bit harsh, by which I mean that the offence was between a yellow and a red card, if that makes any sense!!! However, Fletcher was very lucky not to be booked just after Balogh had his save when Fletcher was clean through.

 

I don't know if it's been said on another thread, but am I the only person who finds it extremely disturbing that the referee apparently watched a re-run of the sending off at half time??? What for? He was apparently satisfied with his decision, but would he have behaved differently in the second half if he felt he had got it wrong??? If he looked at that incident, did he also look at Bamba's 2 footed lunch which apparently merited only a word, or Riordan's late challenge on Berra which didn't even merit a word?

[Dr Ian Malcolm]

When it first happened it looked like a straight red. Seeing it again, its borderline - You've seen players booked for similar tackles, you've seen them sent off. What can't be argued is that he caught Berra - yes, one of his feet does hit the ground - the other goes right in to Berra's ankle. Made the most of it my arse.

[TheBigO]

I think that the only reason people are questioning it is that it isn't high. That doesn't matter. It was two footed and if he had caught Berra's ankle any more, its a bad injury. I would consider it a wee bot unlucky had it been a Hearts player, but I wouldn't contest it.

 

Fatty said Berra made the most of a forwards challenge. If he was trying to block the clearance, he'd have went with his right foot infront of Berra and Christophe might have kicked through on to his studs, which always looks worse on the forward than it actually is. IT WASN'T that type of challenge tho!

 

Hibs completely lost their discipline and were lucky to end with 10 men.

 

Men against boys. Was the same at Tynie - the number of fouls they commited was unbelivable as was Berra's booking when Murry TWICE assaulted him with no reaction from the better man!

 

Feck'emall!!

[Jambokezza]

I think it was a red when you see it at a better angle then you can clearly see he wasnt going for the ball

 

Finally something comes hearts way usually it would be the other way around

[jambopompey]

Feltcher should have been booked for the challenge on Jonsson earlier on in the match

[Carl Spackler]

Honest reaction at the time was that's a shocking tackle but I thought a yellow would be produced. Seeing the replays (especially from the ref's point of view) I thought it was a red. From the ref's angle it looks really bad.

 

Mixu having ago at Berra just puts the icing on the cake. Charmless erse!

[Fermi]

I'm quite surprised this is being discussed. There are two utterly irrelevant points which are being used to cloud this. The first issue is this photograph which supposedly exonerates Fletcher. It supposedly shows his two feet on the ground. In reality, Fletcher leapt from the ground in a two footed challenge, which was out of control. Of course he would touch the ground again, it's due to something called gravity. To top it off, the photograph shows one foot off the ground, and one on its side, totally out of control and thoroughly dangerous.

 

The second is this bizarre discussion of Berra. It is UTTERLY IRRELEVANT whether Fletcher broke his leg, hurt him in any way, or missed him altogether. The offence is a dangerous, out of control challenge; saying he never hurt Berra is like saying it is acceptable to drive at 100 mph in a 30 mph speed limit zone as long as you don't hit anyone.

[Wattie]

The first time I saw it I jolted as i looked terrible. Slow motion usually makes these things seem less severe but watching it at full pace it looked dangerous. He can have no complaints.

 

At the pace of top flight football a challenge like that is a millisecond from ruining a career. Had Fletcher connected further up Berra's leg (i.e. a millisecond later), CB may have been in hospital.

[Zico]

I'm quite surprised this is being discussed. There are two utterly irrelevant points which are being used to cloud this. The first issue is this photograph which supposedly exonerates Fletcher. It supposedly shows his two feet on the ground. In reality, Fletcher leapt from the ground in a two footed challenge, which was out of control. Of course he would touch the ground again, it's due to something called gravity. To top it off, the photograph shows one foot off the ground, and one on its side, totally out of control and thoroughly dangerous.

 

The second is this bizarre discussion of Berra. It is UTTERLY IRRELEVANT whether Fletcher broke his leg, hurt him in any way, or missed him altogether. The offence is a dangerous, out of control challenge; saying he never hurt Berra is like saying it is acceptable to drive at 100 mph in a 30 mph speed limit zone as long as you don't hit anyone.

 

I'm afraid that sensible, coherent analysis will be wasted on our friends from Leef and their Shrek/Moomin-featured leader.

 

Based on the last two games, it's definitely the dirtiest Hibs team I've seen in a good while. Of course we're a big, strong physical side etc etc:blah:

[Victorian]

on a scale of 1 to 10 of dodgy decisions, with 10 being the worst of all, this would be lucky to register a 2.

 

shut up you hobo bawbags.

[Ray Gunn]

i dont undertsand the debate over this,everyone on both sides i have spoke to thinks it was a no brainer.

[maltese jambo]

I'm quite surprised this is being discussed. There are two utterly irrelevant points which are being used to cloud this. The first issue is this photograph which supposedly exonerates Fletcher. It supposedly shows his two feet on the ground. In reality, Fletcher leapt from the ground in a two footed challenge, which was out of control. Of course he would touch the ground again, it's due to something called gravity. To top it off, the photograph shows one foot off the ground, and one on its side, totally out of control and thoroughly dangerous.

 

The second is this bizarre discussion of Berra. It is UTTERLY IRRELEVANT whether Fletcher broke his leg, hurt him in any way, or missed him altogether. The offence is a dangerous, out of control challenge; saying he never hurt Berra is like saying it is acceptable to drive at 100 mph in a 30 mph speed limit zone as long as you don't hit anyone.

 

The only reason i asked it was because i hadnt managed to see the incident and wanted peoples opinions;

 

From what i can gather from the responces is that he lunged in two footed; and Berra attempted to get out the way but was still caught to some degree. Regardless of to what degree he was caught, or the fact that he jumped; you cannot tackle two footed therefore its a red.

[john brownlee]

After Balogh's save, fletcher gives Berra a punch whilst still on the ground (clearly lost it) not picked up by the ref or maybe it was and that could have had the deciding factor in red carding fletcher. The ref maybe thinking better now than later when fletcher may have seriously injured a Hearts player.

Like Csaba says we keep out discipline the hobos lost theirs

 

 

 

Did you notice my deliberate mistook

 

It should have read Jonsson.

 

and we kept our discipline.

 

Sorry guys must pay more attention

[Gizmo]

[quote name='maltese jam

bo;747071]The only reason i asked it was because i hadnt managed to see the incident and wanted peoples opinions;

 

From what i can gather from the responces is that he lunged in two footed; and Berra attempted to get out the way but was still caught to some degree. Regardless of to what degree he was caught' date=' or the fact that he jumped; you cannot tackle two footed therefore its a red.[/quote']

 

Exactly. The referee had already noted a bad foul just earlier from Fletcher and, with that in mind, had NO doubt whatsoever it was deliberate intent and therefor a RED card.

 

Frankly, Mixu bleating because Berra tried to save himself from a career-recker is shocking - he needs to look in the mirror (if he's brave enough)! Excuses that Berra was NOT hurt is akin to someone being done for shooting a gun at a crowd then trying to get off because he missed.

 

The ref was very lenient thereafter - Bamba's tackle on Jonsson was a straight red, no doubt about it. Murray did enough for 3 yellows, and Rearend should have walked for an accumulation of fouls and idiocy!

[neave]

Fletcher was 2 seconds behind play and went to slide in with 2 feet after the ball had been played.

 

OK, so he tried to move his feet out of the way after he realised how much of an arse he'd made of it.

 

To me, however, that doesn't matter a ****; the initial intent was there, therefore meaning the thought of committing dangerous play and the potential to cause serious injury to a fellow professional was present. Indesputable red card in my book.

[ecjambo]

The worst challenge of the match was Bambi's on Wallace in the early stages of the match. Two footer right in front of the dugouts. Fletchers was a bad tackle. Was it a sending off? Maybe. The ref had a good view and its up to him at the end of the day. So ill go with him on this one.

[Cade]

At first viewing from the ref's angle I thought straight red. Replays from various angles suggested it was borderline red/yellow but a red certainly not an unreasonable call. Neither Fletcher nor other Hibs players seemed to object very strongly at the time. Some of the commentators seem to have invented a new rule that Berra should have been seriously hurt before a red card could be justified.

 

Exactly.

 

What was Berra supposed to do?

Stand there and let the jug eared ?4mil rated hobo snap his leg?

Or to try to escape from a leg-breaking two footed lunge?

 

It is utterly ridiculous that some of the scottish media have tried to defend Mixu in saying that it was never a yellow as Berra didn't actually have his leg broken.

 

ALOT of the papers agree that if Dumbo HAD made contact, our Captain would currently be in hospital in a cast and the red card was fully justified.