jamboinglasgow Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Frankly our youth system is awful we either develop skillful players who cant hold their own physically (hamill, sloan) or monsters who are hatchet men (simmons, armstrong) We dont produce nearly enough decent players and given the money we have spent over the last 2-3 years that is concerning Id have expected us to start to see the benefits of romanovs investment by now and only McGowan looks nearly ready The rest maybe have the skill but look a long way off the first team I think we need to look at having a major overhaul at youth level as they simply arent delivering, this is made even more concerning when you consider the investment Id have to say I doubt we have more than 2 or 3 players under 20 who will go onto be top division pros the problem is that your expecting instant results. When major investment is made into the acdemy then it may take a few years before anything is noticed in the first squad. The current U19's (except the foreign ones and ones bought in age 16 e.g. Templeton and Husband) would of started in the Hearts system before Romanov came in, and though there are some who will make it there are ones who wont. However with the added investment brought in the last few years, the minumum standard will have improved in the U14s which will filter down the team in the years to come so the U17's (which from what other KB's are saying, actully look really good. They in my opinon are going to start showing the level of that we will expect. Listening to John Murry's interview again from back in January it is obvious he is trying to consantly improve the youth system and that should be applauded, and I think we are getting the talent that will shine for Hearts, as youth is all about the rough diamond that will be cut and polished, think we have in our system many decent diamonds that will shine with some more polishing. So yes most youth players dont make it, Copil probably will go back home, but I think it is far too soon to write the players off, I will leave that to our coaches who know will make it and who wont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Gosling Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 forgot about him but is he 1st choice week in week out... only driver and berra are its not a great return..... I'd call Eggert a regular. He's played more than Ruben. So who else in your opinion looks like they could be a regular at SPL level in the next year to 18 months? We have a lot of players who will be too old for the 19's next season It is my opinion that once you reach that stage your either challenging for first team football or you should be offski Whilst some players develop later, i do believe if you havent done enough to get yourself into reckoning for even the odd bench appearence by the time your 19 you should be trying your luck at a lowe level Of the current crop, McGowan, Templeton and Kostadinov will be too old for the U19s I think. Unless it's 19 and under, in which case only McGowan is too old. Who do I think has the ability, along with Branny? Well we'll never know if they get selected, but I think Glen (17 - already played), Templeton (19 - older than Branny), McGowan (older than Branny), Brown (18 - already been on the bench), Visconte (17), Wagner (16) (from U17 matches as well), possibly Husband (17) but I think he's a bit slow, Rapnik (17) (who's been unlucky with injuries) and maybe Stewart (17) all have the potential to make it with us. Not forgetting Scott Robinson (15). Maybe once they're all past the 19 threshold, then I'll write them off too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Sorry but did you actually read my posts This is a website for opinions That is my opinion His brother comes on here a few months ago and has a go at the club for wrecking his international chances and wanting to send him on loan, all the while his brother isnt being particularly great This club has already given branny a lot of chances and help to settle, he isnt delivering and for his brother to blame that on the club was out of order He is 19 in a few weeks, he should be pushing on the first team door and he is nowere near Maybe branny should do his own talking were it matters I think it?s the way you put it that people find offensive. Sorry but your first post on this thread makes you sound, well, a plain nasty piece of work...Personally I reckon you are just a stirrer and perhaps manic depressive, and not the "anti-fan" which some others suspect you to be, but honestly the heat you reap is for what you sow. It?s not that people cannot respect your right to an opinion, it?s just that so many of your opinions are against the club, the players, the management, the owner, the coaches, etc that they just don?t seem genuine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawrrrrrrr Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 the problem is that your expecting instant results. When major investment is made into the acdemy then it may take a few years before anything is noticed in the first squad. The current U19's (except the foreign ones and ones bought in age 16 e.g. Templeton and Husband) would of started in the Hearts system before Romanov came in, and though there are some who will make it there are ones who wont. However with the added investment brought in the last few years, the minumum standard will have improved in the U14s which will filter down the team in the years to come so the U17's (which from what other KB's are saying, actully look really good. They in my opinon are going to start showing the level of that we will expect. Listening to John Murry's interview again from back in January it is obvious he is trying to consantly improve the youth system and that should be applauded, and I think we are getting the talent that will shine for Hearts, as youth is all about the rough diamond that will be cut and polished, think we have in our system many decent diamonds that will shine with some more polishing. So yes most youth players dont make it, Copil probably will go back home, but I think it is far too soon to write the players off, I will leave that to our coaches who know will make it and who wont. I dont buy it Yes we may not be into the prime of the sucess already but those brought in at the beginning of romanovs reign should be starting to make an impact Take matty park as a perfect example, highly rated but hes done nothing, sean mackle another one , then the likes of divine, there sitting picking up a wage for nothing The current youth set up in scotland means once they hit 19 you need to make a decision There is a fair whack of them hitting 19 next year We need to take a far harsher line this season and give the coaches less to work with but give them more chance of finding the gem Theres no point in keeping players who wont make it. Mcdonald and slater are perfect examples, why did we waste 6 months on them? Id have to say of those hitting 19 this summer, you'd be lucky if 2 or 3 should be retained , and by this I mean are likely to make it at hearts Sadly we will probably retain most of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I dont buy it Yes we may not be into the prime of the sucess already but those brought in at the beginning of romanovs reign should be starting to make an impact Take matty park as a perfect example, highly rated but hes done nothing, sean mackle another one , then the likes of divine, there sitting picking up a wage for nothing The current youth set up in scotland means once they hit 19 you need to make a decision There is a fair whack of them hitting 19 next year We need to take a far harsher line this season and give the coaches less to work with but give them more chance of finding the gem Theres no point in keeping players who wont make it. Mcdonald and slater are perfect examples, why did we waste 6 months on them? Id have to say of those hitting 19 this summer, you'd be lucky if 2 or 3 should be retained , and by this I mean are likely to make it at hearts Sadly we will probably retain most of them But in your own words in a previous rant, you said that you only drag yourself along to home games because you've already paid for them. So if you don't get a season ticket next or future years, then you'll have no interest in whether these guys make it or not. Or are you, as I suspect, going to continue to go, but continue to moan your face off on here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I dont buy it Yes we may not be into the prime of the sucess already but those brought in at the beginning of romanovs reign should be starting to make an impact Take matty park as a perfect example, highly rated but hes done nothing, sean mackle another one , then the likes of divine, there sitting picking up a wage for nothing The current youth set up in scotland means once they hit 19 you need to make a decision There is a fair whack of them hitting 19 next year We need to take a far harsher line this season and give the coaches less to work with but give them more chance of finding the gem Theres no point in keeping players who wont make it. Mcdonald and slater are perfect examples, why did we waste 6 months on them? Id have to say of those hitting 19 this summer, you'd be lucky if 2 or 3 should be retained , and by this I mean are likely to make it at hearts Sadly we will probably retain most of them I do agree with you that in this country, if you haven't made it by 19 you are ignored by the club but thats the problem of the senior management and maybe also the fact that the league stops at 19 for youths. The problem is that alot of these players should be playing in the reserves however due to the amount of players we have amassed in the last few seasons, players that rarely play block up the reserve posistions from which youngsters could take the next step up. I still dont think you are right to criticise as many players as you have, there is more talent in the U19's then Templeton and McGowen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Gosling Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I do agree with you that in this country, if you haven't made it by 19 you are ignored by the club but thats the problem of the senior management and maybe also the fact that the league stops at 19 for youths. The problem is that alot of these players should be playing in the reserves however due to the amount of players we have amassed in the last few seasons, players that rarely play block up the reserve posistions from which youngsters could take the next step up. I still dont think you are right to criticise as many players as you have, there is more talent in the U19's then Templeton and McGowen. Bingo. Beniusis is ******-blocking Branny, basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawrrrrrrr Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Bingo. Beniusis is ******-blocking Branny, basically. And what about makela, mole, elliot, templeton, glen etc As Much as I dislike benisusis he's the least of branny's problems:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Gosling Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 And what about makela, mole, elliot, templeton, glen etc As Much as I dislike benisusis he's the least of branny's problems:rolleyes: It's funny that the other U19s think Branny has the talent, he just needs to work on his off-the-ball work because that's frustrating. Makela will never be played, so he shouldn't be involved (he gets played on the wing anyway so it's irrelevant). Pospisil leaving has opened a space that's been taken by Mole apparently. Glen's injured, Templeton's on loan. Let's see if Branny is involved in the next few reserve games. And Clum is Clum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Bingo. Beniusis is ******-blocking Branny, basically. to be honest I would have Velicka, Nade and Benisus as the senior team strikers, so they keep in the 1st team. Then have Mole, Branny and Elliot as the strikers of the reserve team with the possibilty of them moving into the first team if they are deemed to play well in the reserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Gosling Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I'd have Templeton, Branny and Glen in the reserves and the other two at another team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Drago Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I'd have Templeton, Branny and Glen in the reserves and the other two at another team. Hibs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I'd have Templeton, Branny and Glen in the reserves and the other two at another team. same, but at the momment where Glen is out for the season, Templeton is at Raith and we are stuck with clum and Mole that is the strikers I'd choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishSandstorm Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Bingo. Beniusis is ******-blocking Branny, basically. I think Benni is a solid first team striker in our squad behind Velicka and Nade. However, this ******-blocking is unacceptable! Jambos should be guiding other Jambos cocks*. *A rule to live by Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funktasticlad Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Of the current crop, McGowan, Templeton and Kostadinov will be too old for the U19s I think. Unless it's 19 and under, in which case only McGowan is too old. Who do I think has the ability, along with Branny? Well we'll never know if they get selected, but I think Glen (17 - already played), Templeton (19 - older than Branny), McGowan (older than Branny), Brown (18 - already been on the bench), Visconte (17), Wagner (16) (from U17 matches as well), possibly Husband (17) but I think he's a bit slow, Rapnik (17) (who's been unlucky with injuries) and maybe Stewart (17) all have the potential to make it with us. Not forgetting Scott Robinson (15). Maybe once they're all past the 19 threshold, then I'll write them off too. To say when a youth player hits 19 if hes no cutting the mustard then he should be shown the door is a wee bit harsh. Granted some show early potential and go on to achieve litttle. IMO with the right coaching and not being put under pressure by supporters management etc as long as they're showing a willingness to improve physicaly and technacilly and having the right attitude to there profession in terms of diet lifestyle they should be given all the support the powers that be deem fit. Ian Wright was an arsenal ledgened whom picked up a fair few caps for the auld enemy and he was spotted in the amature leagues before he signed his first pro contract aged 22! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hom1874 Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I think we all have too much expectations for our youth. Everybody develops at different rates both mentally and physically. I think 19 is too young to write footballers off. I think one of the Hearts Managers said once that if a young lad didn't make the first team by the age of 21 he was going to struggle but might still make it but not at Hearts. Anyway watching the highlights of the u/19s I was impressed by McGowan, Brown, Visconte, and McCusker (scored a hat trick in his only game this season), and a few others. But I am no football expert, I just wonder why McCusker didn't get any more games. Anybody know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 forgot about him but is he 1st choice week in week out... only driver and berra are its not a great return..... I guess that if we could have turned down ?9m for Gordon we would still have Gordon, Neilson, Berra, Driver, Jonsson as first picks who have come through the youth system. Frequent appearances from Elliot and Wallace too which suggests that youth players are getting through the system - even if you don't rate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAMBOMAN Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Frankly our youth system is awful we either develop skillful players who cant hold their own physically (hamill, sloan) or monsters who are hatchet men (simmons, armstrong) We dont produce nearly enough decent players and given the money we have spent over the last 2-3 years that is concerning Id have expected us to start to see the benefits of romanovs investment by now and only McGowan looks nearly ready The rest maybe have the skill but look a long way off the first team I think we need to look at having a major overhaul at youth level as they simply arent delivering, this is made even more concerning when you consider the investment Id have to say I doubt we have more than 2 or 3 players under 20 who will go onto be top division pros If as you say our youth system is awful, then why would celtic come in with an offer for john murray academy director and not only that a week after he rejected the celtic offer, rangers made him an offer too. What is a long way off the first team ? I have watched some of the youths aged 16 training with some of the first team players and you wouldn't have been able to tell who was who and not just size wise but skill also. I do agree with you about one thing Branny refusing to go on loan raises concerns, he is not physically ready that is without question there are under 15 players who are bigger stronger and probably as talented. Going on loan can be the making of a young player, he might think he is too good to do that but I know that his decision is being viewed negatively inside the academy coaching team. It didn't do beckham,scholes,butt,owen, et al any harm so I don't see where he is coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave 1974 Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 His brother annoys me Mmm.........I think you'll find that you annoy EVERYONE on this board. You were banned for being a **** and you don't appear to have learned your lesson kiddo. Since you have come back it's been the usual snipe and moan and bitch about everything related to Hearts. See when you were a baby? Did your mum push or pull you in your pram? Serious question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 From what i've been told all is not rosy at Riccy. Mr Murray is not at all liked and it's impacting on the kids, Copil is desperate to leave and Branny aint that hot. Don't shoot the messenger just passing on what someone in the know told me. You're not allowed to say that on here mate. You've got to pretend they are all great, no matter whether they actually are or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 You're not allowed to say that on here mate. You've got to pretend they are all great, no matter whether they actually are or not. He is allowed to say that if it is true however I think it sounds like he has been hearing things of people who probably heard it off somewhere else. It may be true but how come no one else has mentioned the murry thing. Everyone knows about Copil and Branny is just a matter of opinon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 it sounds like he has been hearing things of people who probably heard it off somewhere else. Thats almost as bad as saying the coaches are good, based on the expert analysis of hearing from someone else that the coaches were good eh...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sum31uk Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 To be honest,branny is involved in the national scene and often gets good reports from youth games.Also celtic were interested in him too.He is likely still developing,whats wrong with waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Thats almost as bad as saying the coaches are good, based on the expert analysis of hearing from someone else that the coaches were good eh...... meh, I thought it was from a kb'er who knew what he was talking about, guess Harvey may think that as well. But seems you have taken exception to me thinking we have good coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Gosling Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I can understand if Branimir refused to go on loan - he is after all a young kid in a foreign country who needs familiarity around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAMBOMAN Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I can understand if Branimir refused to go on loan - he is after all a young kid in a foreign country who needs familiarity around him. He wasn't going out on loan to another country just a second or third division club to toughen him up and give him exposure to first team football. Hearts pay his wages and are responsible for his development therefore if john murray and shaggy feel that this would help him then there should be no argument if he doesn't want to go then hearts have no option but to show him the door. You only have to look at the attitude of some of the first team players to realise hearts are needing players who will fight their way to the first team not sulk about in the 19's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawrrrrrrr Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 He wasn't going out on loan to another country just a second or third division club to toughen him up and give him exposure to first team football. Hearts pay his wages and are responsible for his development therefore if john murray and shaggy feel that this would help him then there should be no argument if he doesn't want to go then hearts have no option but to show him the door. You only have to look at the attitude of some of the first team players to realise hearts are needing players who will fight their way to the first team not sulk about in the 19's Exactly he would have trained with cowdenbeath once or twice a week and played on a saturday The rest of the time he'd have been at riccarton Whilst I have been dissapointed with his progress, his brothers suggestion of his refusal to accept this loan deal was when I lost my patience with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Gosling Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Exactly he would have trained with cowdenbeath once or twice a week and played on a saturday The rest of the time he'd have been at riccarton Whilst I have been dissapointed with his progress, his brothers suggestion of his refusal to accept this loan deal was when I lost my patience with him Aye, how dare he do that to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawrrrrrrr Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Aye, how dare he do that to you. Im more concerned he felt it was ok to do it to employers who pay him a a decent wage, have given him a lot of support and financed his family for regular visits The club thought it was best, imo he shouldnt have even thought about saying no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 This thread is depressingly similar to others in recent days & weeks about Lee Wallace / Jamie Mole / Callum Elliot & other younger players including Driver & Berra & others. It is impossible to say with certainty how any young players career will develop and if X or Y definitely will or won't make it - players grow / regress / progress tremendously quickly at that age even up to age 22 or 23 - some like Hartley / David Weir / Barry Robson didn't develop into top players until their mid twenties or later.... Regards young players - in August 2006 Alan Hutton was bombed out Rangers first team after poor displays and replaced with an on-loan 19 year old Man Utd fullback whilst Ross McCormack was released because they though he wouldn't make the grade - yet a mere 18 months later Hutton is playing in the Premiership and is the most expensive outfield player in SPL history and McCormack is being tracked by 2 Premiership teams and Hearts are quoted with an interest in him after his excellent form at Motherwell. The lesson is NEVER be too quick to judge young players because it can all change for better or worse very very quickly in football and even the experts (professionals) can get it wrong as Hutton & McCormack prove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I can understand if Branimir refused to go on loan - he is after all a young kid in a foreign country who needs familiarity around him. That's my take on it as well. How people can't take that into consideration is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Wiseau Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 It's just great to see the return of so many snide and childish comments on the board. Really, it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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