Arbroath have to wait [MERGED]

[Five to One]

http://sport.scotsman.com/sport/Hearts-make-Arbroath-wait-for.4782136.jp

[JamboMarc]

Thats bad! The only thing is that it says Hearts admitted to having no money to pay, but theres no quotes from us saying that.

[Five to One]

Vlad stocking up the bills till the New Year then using the sale of players to pay them off? He's certainly not digging into his own pockets anytime soon.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I'm not sure exactly what's bad here. We seem to be coming to agreement with the outstanding creditors. Romanov largesse seems to be a thing of the past, probably because UBIG have been stung by the credit crunch.

 

In fact, what is encouraging is that Stewart Fraser seems to be in a position to make these agreements, rather than simply waiting for Lithuania to parcel the cash.

[redm]

It sounds like the bulk of the material for this article was given by Gary Callon at Arbroath rather than anyone at Hearts. I can't see Stewart Fraser talking to the press and Fedotovas obviously gave them nothing either.

 

If we have to pay it then I hope it all gets sorted out on the specified date and then maybe, we can finally draw a line under the whole sorry episode.

[JamboMarc]

I'm not sure exactly what's bad here. We seem to be coming to agreement with the outstanding creditors. Romanov largesse seems to be a thing of the past, probably because UBIG have been stung by the credit crunch.

 

In fact, what is encouraging is that Stewart Fraser seems to be in a position to make these agreements, rather than simply waiting for Lithuania to parcel the cash.

 

It just seems a bit worrying that a club like Hearts cant just give ?14k+ to them. Its not alot so taking this as far as it has seems ridiculous.

[redm]

I'm not sure exactly what's bad here. We seem to be coming to agreement with the outstanding creditors. Romanov largesse seems to be a thing of the past, probably because UBIG have been stung by the credit crunch.

 

In fact, what is encouraging is that Stewart Fraser seems to be in a position to make these agreements, rather than simply waiting for Lithuania to parcel the cash.

 

I suppose it might tie in with the theory that UBIG have pretty much told the club and its management to get on with the necessary and try to bring things back onto an even keel without any support from them.

 

Ogilvie and Fraser could well be having a few late nights at the moment...

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

It just seems a bit worrying that a club like Hearts cant just give ?14k+ to them. Its not alot so taking this as far as it has seems ridiculous.

 

We haven't given them it since August!

 

I'm not saying things are rosy, I'm saying that at least things seem to be progressing on that front, which is encouraging.

[Salvatori5]

In fact, what is encouraging is that Stewart Fraser seems to be in a position to make these agreements, rather than simply waiting for Lithuania to parcel the cash.

 

That's a paragraph I never thought I'd see written! Encouraging that Stewart Fraser is still at the club......how times have changed!

 

The "Bungle & Swindle" jibe at an AGM around 2003 still makes me giggle!

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

That's a paragraph I never thought I'd see written! Encouraging that Stewart Fraser is still at the club......how times have changed!

 

The "Bungle & Swindle" jibe at an AGM around 2003 still makes me giggle!

 

The point is that financial responsibility has to be delegated back to Edinburgh so that our cash flow is better managed.

[grumpyjambo]

I'm not sure exactly what's bad here. We seem to be coming to agreement with the outstanding creditors. Romanov largesse seems to be a thing of the past, probably because UBIG have been stung by the credit crunch.

 

In fact, what is encouraging is that Stewart Fraser seems to be in a position to make these agreements, rather than simply waiting for Lithuania to parcel the cash.

 

Good shout, pity it won't suit many peoples agenda on here though.

[TNCASTLE]

I'm not sure exactly what's bad here. We seem to be coming to agreement with the outstanding creditors. Romanov largesse seems to be a thing of the past, probably because UBIG have been stung by the credit crunch.

 

In fact, what is encouraging is that Stewart Fraser seems to be in a position to make these agreements, rather than simply waiting for Lithuania to parcel the cash.

 

We are talking 15K! I have that available on my credit card (albeit business).

What is it all leading to???:xmasunsure:

[Guest GhostHunter]

Looks to me like several key players have already been "sold" and will be away come the 1st Jan..

[Ogi fae Gorgie]

Snore!!!

[washniklaw]

Thing that will be intresting will be what our overdraft limit is with Ukio Bankas. At one point it was as high as ?40m, I would guess this was cut massively in the summer and is the reason why UBIG acquired additional stock.

 

In the long run it is better that we cut our cloth accordingly, things are tough but we'll get through it.

[Martin_T]

Looks to me like several key players have already been "sold" and will be away come the 1st Jan..

 

I very much doubt this. Although Saturday's team selection will be telling. Because of the on-going world financial crisis, I think Hearts will only be able to sell 3 or 4 players at the very most at 'acceptable prices'.

[Guest GhostHunter]

I very much doubt this. Although Saturday's team selection will be telling. Because of the on-going world financial crisis, I think Hearts will only be able to sell 3 or 4 players at the very most at 'acceptable prices'.

 

Weird then, how, all of a sudden at beginning of Jan, they have the "readies" available to pay people off ?

[southside1874]

Hearts make Arbroath wait for fee

 

 

 

? Previous ? PreviousNext ? Next ?View GalleryPublished Date: 11 December 2008

By Darren Johnstone

THE extent of Hearts' cash flow problems has become clearer after the Tynecastle club told Arbroath they will have to wait until January to receive ?15,000 from Andy Webster's transfer fee.

 

Amid fevered speculation that owner Vladimir Romanov is planning a clear out of his high earners following the club's recent delays over paying players, Hearts admit they don't have the money to settle the bill.

 

It is thought Hearts are relying onADVERTISEMENTsales of half-season tickets to cover the cost of the sum due to the Second Division club.

 

Since submitting an invoice in August, Arbroath have been chasing their cut in the ?150,000 Hearts received from Wigan for Webster, who began his career at Gayfield.

 

Arbroath's patience ran out last week when they revealed they were considering asking the SFA either to freeze gate receipts or enforce a signing ban on Hearts in a bid to recoup the money.

 

The ploy has appeared to work as Hearts finance director Stewart Fraser has negotiated a payment plan with Arbroath secretary Gary Callon that will see the money transferred on 9 January.

 

Arbroath are amongst a list of creditors chasing cash, with reports suggesting water suppliers Business Stream are due thousands of pounds from the club.

 

Callon said: "Hearts have made contact and have asked that they defer the payment until January. We have agreed to that on the subject that they make the payment and include a favourable interest rate on the figure going all the way back to August when we first submitted the invoice.

 

"We are due ?14,437 plus VAT with the interest on top and we have been told that will be paid on 9 January."

 

On the Friday before Hearts racked up their fifth successive SPL victory with a 2-1 win over Rangers on 29 November, the Hearts squad did not receive their wages on time.

 

The club released a statement the following Monday claiming the outstanding salaries had been deposited in the players accounts but it later emerged that six first-team members had agreed to have their wages deferred following a meeting with the club's sport director Anatoly Korobochka.

 

At the weekly press conference last Friday, manager Csaba Laszlo and midfielder Michael Stewart were both singing from the same hymn sheet when they said the matter had been resolved.

 

However, in the midst of a world-wide economic crisis, the non-payment of wages has led to rumours that Romanov's Ukio Bankas is feeling the pinch.

 

The club's supporters are concerned Romanov is ready to order the sale of players such as captain Christophe Berra, Andrew Driver, Laryea Kingston, Marius Zaliukas and Bruno Aguiar, who have all been linked with moves away from Tynecastle, in a bid to ease their financial problems.

 

Hearts director Sergejus Fedotovas was contacted yesterday but refused to comment on the supporters' concerns.

[Charlie-Brown]

merge with 'not good' ?

[slashishere]

Stupid in agreeing to pay it in the first place.

Arbroath looking for considerible interest, GTF, cheeky ..........

[Charlie-Brown]

This thread will be at least 5 pages.

[Coco]

Thing that will be intresting will be what our overdraft limit is with Ukio Bankas. At one point it was as high as ?40m, I would guess this was cut massively in the summer and is the reason why UBIG acquired additional stock.

 

In the long run it is better that we cut our cloth accordingly, things are tough but we'll get through it.

 

I don't think Ukio Bankas ever gave Hearts a ?40m overdraft facility.

 

Hearts received authorisation at an AGM to seek ?40m in borrowing facilities.

 

Ukio's loans to Hearts were from memory much less than ?40m. In total at the end of 2007 Ukio Bankas had only ?355m outstanding in commercial loans. It is improbable that they would allow Hearts to comprise 10% of their outstanding assets.

[Drylaw Hearts]

3rd time lucky.

[Devries4]

I do wonder if someone was too quick to acknowledge that Arbroath were due a cut of anything.

[Martin_T]

Weird then, how, all of a sudden at beginning of Jan, they have the "readies" available to pay people off ?

 

It doesn't mean we have already agreed to sell 'several key players'. ?15,000 is after all, only 1 week's wages for a certain Laryea Kingston...or the combined weekly wage packet of Basso and Makela...allegedly.

[Guest GhostHunter]

I was being dramatic.

 

You were being a pedant.

 

[DavePDQ]

And to think I lost all my credibility for repeatedly saying that the club has no money

 

There will be a big clearout of players in January and the money will be used to pay off the creditors who are longest overdue (including ?1m+ to HMRC) and tide us over to the end of the season. The fact that Arbroath have been told they'll be paid on January 9th suggests that deals are pretty much done.

[siegementality]

I do wonder if someone was too quick to acknowledge that Arbroath were due a cut of anything.

 

It was written in the terms of Websters transfer from Arbroath to Hearts. They are owed, end of story. What people seem to be missing is that Hearts have already received the money due for Webster, which included the 15K plus VAT due to Arbroath. Therefore not only can we not pay our debts we spent money which belonged to Arbroath, I wonder whose wages that paid?

 

How anyone can see any positives from Hearts deferring a payment for 15K is beyond me. It is embarrassing, the negative publicity alone should have been enough to have Romanov pay the debt from his own pocket if need be.

 

Maybe Arbroath should try to sell Romanov some ornamental cow, a clapped out boat or some sheite like that. He seems to have money to spend on tat.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

It was written in the terms of Websters transfer from Arbroath to Hearts. They are owed, end of story. What people seem to be missing is that Hearts have already received the money due for Webster, which included the 15K plus VAT due to Arbroath.

 

Indeed I wonder what the reaction on here would be if Sunderland refused to pay us what we are due for Craig Gordon, or told us to wait 6 months or whatever.

[siegementality]

The point is that financial responsibility has to be delegated back to Edinburgh so that our cash flow is better managed.

 

I wonder how to say 'closing the stable door after the horse has bolted' in Lithuanian?.

 

The only responsibility that has been delegated back to Edinburgh is the resposibility of getting a red kip when negotiating the terms of deferred payments with Arbroath!!!!

 

Will the mysterious "consultancy fee" payments to Kaunas be deferred I wonder?

[siegementality]

Indeed I wonder what the reaction on here would be if Sunderland refused to pay us what we are due for Craig Gordon, or told us to wait 6 months or whatever.

 

No-one would really bother I wouldn't think. It happens all the time in football after all!

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I wonder how to say 'closing the stable door after the horse has bolted' in Lithuanian?.

 

The only responsibility that has been delegated back to Edinburgh is the resposibility of getting a red kip when negotiating the terms of deferred payments with Arbroath!!!!

 

Will the mysterious "consultancy fee" payments to Kaunas be deferred I wonder?

 

I don't disagree but we are where we are.

[siegementality]

I don't disagree but we are where we are.

 

Taking from Peter to defer payments to Paul is where we seem to be.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Taking from Peter to defer payments to Paul is where we seem to be.

 

Which indicates we need a capital injection and if Romanov can't or won't supply it, we need to sell assets.

[siegementality]

Which indicates we need a capital injection and if Romanov can't or won't supply it, we need to sell assets.

 

From last nights news:

 

"He (Laszlo) is not expecting excessive departures, and club officials have stressed likewise to the Evening News that no panic buttons are being pressed internally at Tynecastle despite recent failures to pay players' wages on time."

 

Actions seem to be speaking louder than words at the moment though.

[IMA MAROON]

Indeed I wonder what the reaction on here would be if Sunderland refused to pay us what we are due for Craig Gordon, or told us to wait 6 months or whatever.

 

The difference is that some don't care about Arbroath, we care about Hearts.

[Dagger Is Back]

An ability to pay a long outstanding ?15K debt should be a major worry to all of us. Makes yoiu wonder who else we are due money to - police (only a matter of time surely?), other clubs for ticket sales, caterers etc. We WILL be selling players in January - whether we replace them and what we replace them with remains to be seen.

 

I think we should all be very worried about our financial position. Our short term liquidity problems are extremely concerning. Having to sell assets to keep the club afloat is not a new thing for HMFC. We've been like this for years. The number of payment 'issues' we have though IMO is unprecendented.

 

 

The question for me is what is the cause of this. Is VR under the financial cosh or can he not be arsed with us anymore? Is this another of VRs lessons to keep the minions in check?

 

Who the **** knows?

 

Just hope that we hold on to our assets and play them in the two derbys before we sell them.

[Examiner]

Taking from Peter to defer payments to Paul is where we seem to be.

 

Actually, that's the core of London Labour's fiscal policy for the economy.

 

Good enough for them.

 

(The difference being they are a couple of years behind and are still at the rampant "spending too much money with no sense" stage and ramping up the debt and both Paul and Peter will have to pay much more for the whole scheme)

 

It's really quite fashionable!

[John Gentleman]

I'm not sure exactly what's bad here. We seem to be coming to agreement with the outstanding creditors. Romanov largesse seems to be a thing of the past, probably because UBIG have been stung by the credit crunch.

 

Romanov's largesse?

 

Now what largesse would that be? From all that I can hear, read and see his daft spending is encapsulated in our accounts and balance sheets since he took the reins (or should that be 'reigns'?).

 

......with the possible exception of yon plastic coo' and the yellow submarine.........but even then I wouldn't put it past him to devise a method of finding a way to secrete the expenditures away in our accounts somewhere.

 

You know as well as I do Geoff; wealthy people (with the help of good advisers) rarely put their own dosh on the line.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I'm not sure exactly what's bad here. We seem to be coming to agreement with the outstanding creditors. Romanov largesse seems to be a thing of the past' date=' probably because UBIG have been stung by the credit crunch.

 

Romanov's [i']largesse[/i]?

 

Now what largesse would that be? From all that I can hear, read and see his daft spending is encapsulated in our accounts and balance sheets since he took the reins (or should that be 'reigns'?).

 

......with the possible exception of yon plastic coo' and the yellow submarine.........but even then I wouldn't put it past him to devise a method of finding a way to secrete the expenditures away in our accounts somewhere.

 

You know as well as I do Geoff; wealthy people (with the help of good advisers) rarely put their own dosh on the line.

 

The losses we have accumulated over the past 3 years have been because Romanov/UBIG have funded them, via Ukio or converting the debt to equity. That that money has been p*ssed up against a wall, mostly, is another debate.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

The difference is that some don't care about Arbroath, we care about Hearts.

 

So you're agreeing with my point, that you're giving a biased opinion rather than a fair one.

[IMA MAROON]

So you're agreeing with my point, that you're giving a biased opinion rather than a fair one.

 

Of Course I'm biased.

 

Fair. :)

[Rudolf]

It was written in the terms of Websters transfer from Arbroath to Hearts. They are owed, end of story. What people seem to be missing is that Hearts have already received the money due for Webster, which included the 15K plus VAT due to Arbroath. Therefore not only can we not pay our debts we spent money which belonged to Arbroath, I wonder whose wages that paid?

 

How anyone can see any positives from Hearts deferring a payment for 15K is beyond me. It is embarrassing, the negative publicity alone should have been enough to have Romanov pay the debt from his own pocket if need be.

 

Maybe Arbroath should try to sell Romanov some ornamental cow, a clapped out boat or some sheite like that. He seems to have money to spend on tat.

 

 

I understood their share to be a percentage of any subsequent transfer fee which we haven't received. Only compensation. Technically, Hearts were within their rights not to pay Arbroath a penny but agreed to pay anyway.

 

I think that's the point the poster was making.

 

Could be wrong mind you as it seems you have seen the written contract.

[naeclue]

We are in dead trouble in my mind. Tickets for all home games have been for sale pretty much from the start of the season. This reeks of a need for cash flow to me.

 

Most of the income for the club is in the form of season ticket sales, and we have to assume that is ALL GONE already. Additional walk up sales are limited, crowds have dropped this year.

 

Presumably 2009 has to be self-financing - that is what 6 months or so before the next years season ticket money comes in.

 

Our income has dropped due to crowds falling, and corporate business levels plummeted prior to the credit crunch, and are surely getting worse.

 

I reckon we need to generate 7-10 million quid for the next 6 months. We'll be lucky to do that, and then things will be worse again next year - playing side will diminish due to loss of players, crowds will fall further.

 

Hearts could have been an incredible success story, was it 2 years ago we had a waiting list of 6500 for season tickets?

 

Just dismal.

[Tott]

I understood their share to be a percentage of any subsequent transfer fee which we haven't received. Only compensation. Technically, Hearts were within their rights not to pay Arbroath a penny but agreed to pay anyway.

 

I think that's the point the poster was making.

 

Could be wrong mind you as it seems you have seen the written contract.

 

Wondered why Arbroath were due anything,given the fact we didnt actually sell webster on.

So is all there moaning down to Hearts initial genorousity :xmasgrin: or do they have a vaild claim.

[Rudolf]

Wondered why Arbroath were due anything,given the fact we didnt actually sell webster on.

So is all there moaning down to Hearts initial genorousity :xmasgrin: or do they have a vaild claim.

 

I'm not sure, you'll have to ask Siegementality who's seen the written contract I believe:xmasgrin:

[I'M IBRAHIM TALL]

Its probably been said before but seeing as we have had to wait the best of three years to get anything like an answer from FIFA/UEFA/SFA/RSPCC or whoever, Arbroath can do the same.

[Gizmo]

....

 

The question for me is what is the cause of this. Is VR under the financial cosh or can he not be arsed with us anymore? Is this another of VRs lessons to keep the minions in check? ...

 

My educated guess here is that after the ?12M debt for equity deal, UBIG have told Hearts that henceforth we require to stand on our own feet. The current financial situation perhaps has speeded up their withdrawal of additional funding - hence the cashflow problems.

 

I suspect the plan was always to cut costs come January, but UBIG's own tightening of the belt has caused cashflow problems that may otherwise have not become a problem; it was probably expected that we would reach the January transfer-market intact.

 

With the cash for previous sales of players, the debt for equity swap, and hopefully decent funds brought in from the sale of players in January (along with a large reduction in our unsustainable wage bill), we should surely expect our debt levels to be massively reduced. With the preferential interest rate afforded us by Ukio Bankas, I really would hope we would be in a much more sustainable (perhaps even saleable?) position.

 

 

This is where WE come in, imo.

 

We need to BACK the team in the way only Jambos can, even if it is likely to be a team bereft of our favourite players.

 

We need to give 100% ENCOURAGEMENT to any unfinished youngsters or cheap Kaunas imports brought in to fill the gaps.

 

We need to turn out in NUMBERS (and the derby ticket sales are exactly what we need).

 

We are the biggest asset this club has - don't forget that!

[Jambo in Yorkshire]

The BBC have put a positive spin on this ............for a change!!!!

 

Article seems reasonable.

 

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/heart_of_midlothian/7777244.stm

[hawaii]

My educated guess here is that after the ?12M debt for equity deal, UBIG have told Hearts that henceforth we require to stand on our own feet. The current financial situation perhaps has speeded up their withdrawal of additional funding - hence the cashflow problems.

 

I suspect the plan was always to cut costs come January, but UBIG's own tightening of the belt has caused cashflow problems that may otherwise have not become a problem; it was probably expected that we would reach the January transfer-market intact.

 

With the cash for previous sales of players, the debt for equity swap, and hopefully decent funds brought in from the sale of players in January (along with a large reduction in our unsustainable wage bill), we should surely expect our debt levels to be massively reduced. With the preferential interest rate afforded us by Ukio Bankas, I really would hope we would be in a much more sustainable (perhaps even saleable?) position.

 

 

This is where WE come in, imo.

 

We need to BACK the team in the way only Jambos can, even if it is likely to be a team bereft of our favourite players.

 

We need to give 100% ENCOURAGEMENT to any unfinished youngsters or cheap Kaunas imports brought in to fill the gaps.

 

We need to turn out in NUMBERS (and the derby ticket sales are exactly what we need).

 

We are the biggest asset this club has - don't forget that!

 

What club will buy players from Hearts when there is a Fire Sale going on at Ibrox??