Where did the Money Go??

[Pedrolister]

It has been talked about here before, where has the money gone from our player sales? (There has been a few)

 

The last I remember was the sale(s) went through in another year, so will show up later, so my question is, where has the money gone from player sales over the last few season, it hasn't or doesn't appear to have gone on the debt, we have no money it would appear and no new players we have paid much money for?

 

Can Vlad/UBIG take the money and do with it what they want, my thinking would be yes or has the money be used as a float to pay our wage bill?

[Martin_T]

It has been talked about here before, where has the money gone from our player sales? (There has been a few)

 

The last I remember was the sale(s) went through in another year, so will show up later, so my question is, where has the money gone from player sales over the last few season, it hasn't or doesn't appear to have gone on the debt, we have no money it would appear and no new players we have paid much money for?

 

Can Vlad/UBIG take the money and do with it what they want, my thinking would be yes or has the money be used as a float to pay our wage bill?

 

We do not know for certain where the money has gone, however if the ?9 million for Craig Gordon, ?2.3 for Bednar and various other smaller transfers out (Pospisil etc) haven't made a dent in our debt figure, then we have a right to be gravely concerned. Especially when you include the ?12 million rights issue and the ?2.5 million we may receive for Goncalves come the end of the season.

[Guest jambomickey]

this regime don't answer those kind of questions even to shareholders at agm's

[Drylaw Hearts]

The money for players sales will have gone against the OD that at one point reached ?36million.

 

It's how we got to that ?36million we should look into.

[jambojim52]

It has been talked about here before, where has the money gone from our player sales? (There has been a few)

 

The last I remember was the sale(s) went through in another year, so will show up later, so my question is, where has the money gone from player sales over the last few season, it hasn't or doesn't appear to have gone on the debt, we have no money it would appear and no new players we have paid much money for?

 

Can Vlad/UBIG take the money and do with it what they want, my thinking would be yes or has the money be used as a float to pay our wage bill?

 

The problem with ONE controlling shareholder/owner is they can do what they like and if they don't want you to know they don't tell you. Speculation is rife on here but no-one will ever know what goes on in VR's mind I sometimes think he doesn't know either but that's another story.

[Maroon tinted glasses 2]

Ok say for arguments sake that the money isnt on the next set of accounts (i assume it would be pretty obvious if it wasnt) then what would be getting done as it would then become clear we are getting pumped!

 

The reason i didnt renew my ticket this year was because i dont trust vlad and am not sure that the money has been getting used in the best interests of HMFC.

[Sparky]

Slightly preemptive but interesting question nonetheless.

 

If the transfer money doesn't reduce the debt then there would be absolute uproar. VR wouldn't be so blatant though.A possible situation would see money be diverted out of the club causing part of JKB to go into meltdown. If too much has been taken out then fans will revolt. If a lesser amount then fans will endure it. We still don't know about the million of agency fees. That makes me wary of our next accounts.

 

Hopefully we'll have taken a big chunk out of the debt, built up a solid squad and playing in europe every season on a sound financial footing.

[Cade]

During the 05-06 season we had some great players who were on huge wages.

 

The club was running at a loss and relying on qualification tot the group satges of the Champions League to offset the losses made by paying such massive wages.

 

Failing to get to the group stage of the CL and then crashing straight out of the UEFA cup blew any chance of us either keeping the guys we had or improving the squad we were left with.

 

The only way the club could reduce the debt was to sell players and it remains so until this very day.

 

05-06 was a massive gamble and it failed.

[Pedrolister]

Intresting Point, but the wages are the reason the debt has gone up, the player sales (and the profit/cash recivced) should have been offset or we should have a healthy bank balance, thus not having current problems.

 

Best of both worlds for Vlad, take the profits, run's up the debt levels!

[David Brent]

How much did we spend to buy up the ground for the new stand and pay off the nursery etc?

[Guest JamboRobbo]

How much did we spend to buy up the ground for the new stand and pay off the nursery etc?

 

if its what I think you're talking about, I don't think we've paid that - it's just an option to buy.

[Coco]

The money went on bloated salaries to a vast squad of players.

 

And on ?4m worth of 'registration fees' which the Chairman refused to elaborate on at the AGM.

 

And on payments to sacked employees, compromise agreements etc.

 

And on interest payments on the bloated debt.

 

And to be fair on repainting the main stand roof.

[David McCaig]

If wages are 120% of turnover its not hard to answer the question of where the money has gone and indeed is still going!!!!

 

Given that we owe the money to our parent company rather than an external bank, we are only really in as much debt as someone is prepared to pay and UBIG/VR are prepared to accept.

 

The key thing at the moment is that the club has to become self-financing, the wage bill has to be slashed.

 

If anyone seriously thinks that VR has been making a healthy profit out of Hearts over the last 3 years then they are more deluded than any of the Hobonomicists at the San Giro.

[Jam Tarts 1874]

If wages are 120% of turnover its not hard to answer the question of where the money has gone and indeed is still going!!!!

 

Given that we owe the money to our parent company rather than an external bank, we are only really in as much debt as someone is prepared to pay and UBIG/VR are prepared to accept.

 

The key thing at the moment is that the club has to become self-financing, the wage bill has to be slashed.

 

If anyone seriously thinks that VR has been making a healthy profit out of Hearts over the last 3 years then they are more deluded than any of the Hobonomicists at the San Giro.

 

I agree. People need to wait to see the accounts for year ending 31.7.08. which should be in the public domain from the end of February to get a better picture of where we stand.

 

People also need to remember that during this season we have had to pay un-disclosed significant amounts of money to pay off Pinilla and Beslija which combined with a drop in income this season must be making it very hard for Hearts to find money.

 

Personally I hope we can get through without having to borrow any more from Romanov/UBIG. I would rather we lost one or two quality players rather than being further in debt to Romanov.

 

The last set of accounts carried a statement from UBIG clearly making the point that Hearts would continue to have the support of UBIG only if Hearts cut it's expenditure.

[Samster]

The money for players sales will have gone against the OD that at one point reached ?36million.

 

It's how we got to that ?36million we should look into.

 

Does anyone know what the debt is supposed to be at the moment? That article about finances in the Scotsman last week still had us at around ?36m iirc but as people have mentioned on here there have been substantial player sales and a debt-for-equity swap.

 

Or can the Scotsman and other media only really go by the most recent set of accounts which would still show the higher debt?

[David McCaig]

Does anyone know what the debt is supposed to be at the moment? That article about finances in the Scotsman last week still had us at around ?36m iirc but as people have mentioned on here there have been substantial player sales and a debt-for-equity swap.

 

Or can the Scotsman and other media only really go by the most recent set of accounts which would still show the higher debt?

 

The debt might as well be ?100M as opposed to ?36M, if UBIG have chosen to lend us this amount then more fool them.

 

Hearts are either worth Tynecastle + player sales (?20M MAX) or whatever someone is prepared to pay for us.

 

At the current moment we are a loss-making company, each day we cost UBIG money.

 

The one thing that is absolutely certain is that in the short term there is no way that UBIG will be getting their ?36M back.

[Jam Tarts 1874]

The money for players sales will have gone against the OD that at one point reached ?36million.

 

It's how we got to that ?36million we should look into.

 

If you seriously don't know how the debt reached ?36m I have to assume that you have been on another planet for 3 years.

[jambojim52]

I agree. People need to wait to see the accounts for year ending 31.7.08. which should be in the public domain from the end of February to get a better picture of where we stand.

 

People also need to remember that during this season we have had to pay un-disclosed significant amounts of money to pay off Pinilla and Beslija which combined with a drop in income this season must be making it very hard for Hearts to find money.

 

Personally I hope we can get through without having to borrow any more from Romanov/UBIG. I would rather we lost one or two quality players rather than being further in debt to Romanov.

 

The last set of accounts carried a statement from UBIG clearly making the point that Hearts would continue to have the support of UBIG only if Hearts cut it's expenditure.

 

What is also hurting the club is the stay away fans. Yes they may have a point, they may have principals, but IMHO they have made their point and any further protest is only harming the club. VR isn't going away any time soon. If he does it will be the end of HMFC as there is no-one out there willing to take on the debt.

IF the club can get back to trading near to break even, then the club will survive. Hoping the club dies JUST to get rid of VR is not on IMHO.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

I agree. People need to wait to see the accounts for year ending 31.7.08. which should be in the public domain from the end of February to get a better picture of where we stand.

 

People also need to remember that during this season we have had to pay un-disclosed significant amounts of money to pay off Pinilla

 

Why did we have to pay off Pinilla given his contract was up at the end of last season?

 

We supposedly gave him a new contract with the option for us to terminate it up to 30th June 08 or whatever it was. If we had to pay up the contract to terminate it, then our contracts people are even more incompetent than I though.

[Coco]

What is also hurting the club is the stay away fans. Yes they may have a point, they may have principals, but IMHO they have made their point and any further protest is only harming the club. VR isn't going away any time soon. If he does it will be the end of HMFC as there is no-one out there willing to take on the debt.

IF the club can get back to trading near to break even, then the club will survive. Hoping the club dies JUST to get rid of VR is not on IMHO.

 

I think that the stay away fans have been for the most part not coming to Tynecastle because the entertainment value has been so low. Not a protest.

[Jambomo]

What is also hurting the club is the stay away fans. Yes they may have a point, they may have principals, but IMHO they have made their point and any further protest is only harming the club. VR isn't going away any time soon. If he does it will be the end of HMFC as there is no-one out there willing to take on the debt.

IF the club can get back to trading near to break even, then the club will survive. Hoping the club dies JUST to get rid of VR is not on IMHO.

 

How much revenue are Hearts losing from stay away fans?

[jambojim52]

How much revenue are Hearts losing from stay away fans?

Whilst I am under no illusion as to wiping out our debt, Revenue is what the club needs. It always has.

It has been reported that 3000 less season tickets and an unknown amount of walk up fans are staying away. This amounts to a tidy sum throughout a season.

Lets not forget that it was also reported there was ONCE a waiting list for season tickets. Admittedly the team needs to play well and show some commitment ( it has in recent games IMHO) before we get back to the heady days of waiting lists, However no-one can deny that the above figures amount to a fair bit of revenue.

[topcat]

Average Attendance so far is 13,802.

 

Rough Calculations...

 

Dundee United and Hibs are the Only teams yet to visit and they'll attract a good crowd and a sell out respectively meaning that by the time we've played everybody the average will be more like 14,000.

 

Last Season it was about 16,000

 

So that's an average of 2,000 missing per game or 12.5%

 

Over 18 home games that'll work out at about 36,000 empty seats.

 

If anybody has the accounts to hand they can look up the revenue from Season Tickets and matchday tickets and then divide by eight to get an estimate of the impact but my very rough calculations suggest it'll be somewhere in the region of ?750,000

or about ?15K a week.

 

In the perspective of the long term financial position this isn't too alarming but in terms of short term cashflow this could make things very awkward

 

One other factor that can't be helping is that as more of the revenue is from walk up income as opposed to prepaid season tickets, revenue is now less predictable on a week by week basis.

 

I said earlier that the Dundee United game should bring in a good crowd but Hearts won't know for sure until it happens

[shaun.lawson]

my very rough calculations suggest it'll be somewhere in the region of ?750,000M

 

Christ! No wonder we're in trouble!

[jambojim52]

Average Attendance so far is 13,802.

 

Rough Calculations...

 

Dundee United and Hibs are the Only teams yet to visit and they'll attract a good crowd and a sell out respectively meaning that by the time we've played everybody the average will be more like 14,000.

 

Last Season it was about 16,000

 

So that's an average of 2,000 missing per game or 12.5%

 

Over 18 home games that'll work out at about 36,000 empty seats.

 

If anybody has the accounts to hand they can look up the revenue from Season Tickets and matchday tickets and then divide by eight to get an estimate of the impact but my very rough calculations suggest it'll be somewhere in the region of ?750,000M

or about ?15K a week.

 

In the perspective of the long term financial position this isn't too alarming but in terms of short term cashflow this could make things very awkward

 

One other factor that can't be helping is that as more of the revenue is from walk up income as opposed to prepaid season tickets, revenue is now less predictable on a week by week basis.

 

I said earlier that the Dundee United game should bring in a good crowd but Hearts won't know for sure until it happens

 

I respect your calculations, but I would think maybe a little low. However, no matter, the other things to concider are merchantise. The sales in the club shop must also be reduced. Whilst the food dept may not generate immediate cash,if food sales are higher, then Hearts can charge more for the contract. Admittedly not club saving amounts, simply more cash in terms of cash flow ect.

[topcat]

Christ! No wonder we're in trouble!

 

Well spotted Sir.

Post Edited, Face suitably reddened

[topcat]

I respect your calculations, but I would think maybe a little low. However, no matter, the other things to concider are merchandise. The sales in the club shop must also be reduced. Whilst the food dept may not generate immediate cash,if food sales are higher, then Hearts can charge more for the contract. Admittedly not club saving amounts, simply more cash in terms of cash flow ect.

 

We were talking about 'stay away fans' as opposed to 'not buying merchandise fans' so I was only looking at match day income.

 

I did say they were rough calculations...

 

Maybe I should have said something more vague like "The thick end of a Million"

[jambojim52]

We were talking about 'stay away fans' as opposed to 'not buying merchandise fans' so I was only looking at match day income.

 

I did say they were rough calculations...

 

Maybe I should have said something more vague like "The thick end of a Million"

 

:) Sorry TC didn't mean it to sound like that!

 

As for the merchantise, I added that and know fine it wasn't in your post. Simply added weight to the arguement

[jamborory]

Still Don't Get How A Club Like Us Who Where Down To ?12million In Debt At One Point It's Tripled And We've Received Over ?15million + in tranfer fees tv fees and so on. Vlad's A Farce Can't Even Pay Our Water Bill Of ?15k, Shuv The Credit Crisis Up Yer Jeer That Has Nothing To Do With What He's Trying To Do To Our Club.

Come January The Following Players Will Be Away For CASH!.

 

Aguiar = QPR Or Someone

Berra = Man Utd Or Chelsea (As Reported Alex Ferguson Was At Tynecastle Vs Rangers)

Zaliukas = Well He's pesh so i'll take ?2m for him as long as it's reinvested.

Kingston = ?1.5m + Please.

 

Many More Players Will Be Leaving And Joining I Believe The January Sales Are Our Make Or Break.

[flecktimus]

What is also hurting the club is the stay away fans. Yes they may have a point, they may have principals, but IMHO they have made their point and any further protest is only harming the club. VR isn't going away any time soon. If he does it will be the end of HMFC as there is no-one out there willing to take on the debt.

IF the club can get back to trading near to break even, then the club will survive. Hoping the club dies JUST to get rid of VR is not on IMHO.

 

Ah its all the stay away fans fault.

 

Ok you have got T.C to ?1m that stay away fans are costing HMFC,

 

i will accept that

 

but raise you to ?3m for interest payments due to the massive debt racked up.

[Tynie b]

I think that the stay away fans have been for the most part not coming to Tynecastle because the entertainment value has been so low. Not a protest.

 

I think you're SLIGHTLY wrong, I didn't get a season ticket this season (or Last) but I had one for 12-15 years before that, Before having a season ticket, I still went to every game home and away,You didn't need one in the good old days!!

The entertainment on offer is, as you suggest, Crap,BUT, that alone would not make me stay away!! I refuse to give ANY money to that little scrote Madfud or his son, I will not buy my son & daughter their Hearts tops this year,Again,I have been to 4 games this season,mates not using their season tickets, didn't buy a pie,no great loss if i'm honest , I do miss not going,Sometimes, But can't bring myself to PAY any money into UBIG/UKIOS...

I am starting to panic, my Boy is 2years old and starting to take an interest in football on the TV, I WANT to take him to Tynecastle SOON, Hopefully Madfud will have F***** Off by the time he wants to go!!

[Tynie b]

Still Don't Get How A Club Like Us Who Where Down To ?12million In Debt At One Point It's Tripled And We've Received Over ?15million + in tranfer fees tv fees and so on. Vlad's A Farce Can't Even Pay Our Water Bill Of ?15k, Shuv The Credit Crisis Up Yer Jeer That Has Nothing To Do With What He's Trying To Do To Our Club.

Come January The Following Players Will Be Away For CASH!.

 

Aguiar = QPR Or Someone

Berra = Man Utd Or Chelsea (As Reported Alex Ferguson Was At Tynecastle Vs Rangers)Zaliukas = Well He's pesh so i'll take ?2m for him as long as it's reinvested.

Kingston = ?1.5m + Please.

 

Many More Players Will Be Leaving And Joining I Believe The January Sales Are Our Make Or Break.

 

Sir Alex was No where NEAR Tynecastle on that day, He was in his office at Old Trafford,As Reported on Sky News!!

I Like Berra,BUT, No WAY is he Chelsea,Man U class, a GOOD 3-4 years down the road MAYBE!!!

[Eggo]

It has been talked about here before, where has the money gone from our player sales? (There has been a few)

 

The last I remember was the sale(s) went through in another year, so will show up later, so my question is, where has the money gone from player sales over the last few season, it hasn't or doesn't appear to have gone on the debt, we have no money it would appear and no new players we have paid much money for?

 

Can Vlad/UBIG take the money and do with it what they want, my thinking would be yes or has the money be used as a float to pay our wage bill?

 

 

 

 

Ask a shareholder to write in and demand an answer to your question.

[hawaii]

?20m plus out of the ?36m debt is down to the Pieman

 

Unless folk are really suggesting that Vlad ran up the whole ?36m himself in 3 years?

[jambojim52]

I think you're SLIGHTLY wrong, I didn't get a season ticket this season (or Last) but I had one for 12-15 years before that, Before having a season ticket, I still went to every game home and away,You didn't need one in the good old days!!

The entertainment on offer is, as you suggest, Crap,BUT, that alone would not make me stay away!! I refuse to give ANY money to that little scrote Madfud or his son, I will not buy my son & daughter their Hearts tops this year,Again,I have been to 4 games this season,mates not using their season tickets, didn't buy a pie,no great loss if i'm honest , I do miss not going,Sometimes, But can't bring myself to PAY any money into UBIG/UKIOS...

I am starting to panic, my Boy is 2years old and starting to take an interest in football on the TV, I WANT to take him to Tynecastle SOON, Hopefully Madfud will have F***** Off by the time he wants to go!!

 

Sorry but I can't see VR going any time soon, and tbh if he did, your son would NEVER see Hearts play, because when the mad one does go, so does the club. I do not believe for one minute that Hearts can survive without VR simply because there is no-one else out there.

Perhaps in time, IF/WHEN the ecconomic climate changes but that could be some years away.

[Eggo]

I think you're SLIGHTLY wrong, I didn't get a season ticket this season (or Last) but I had one for 12-15 years before that, Before having a season ticket, I still went to every game home and away,You didn't need one in the good old days!!

The entertainment on offer is, as you suggest, Crap,BUT, that alone would not make me stay away!! I refuse to give ANY money to that little scrote Madfud or his son, I will not buy my son & daughter their Hearts tops this year,Again,I have been to 4 games this season,mates not using their season tickets, didn't buy a pie,no great loss if i'm honest , I do miss not going,Sometimes, But can't bring myself to PAY any money into UBIG/UKIOS...

I am starting to panic, my Boy is 2years old and starting to take an interest in football on the TV, I WANT to take him to Tynecastle SOON, Hopefully Madfud will have F***** Off by the time he wants to go!!

 

 

 

 

HOBO

[hearts_crazy]

Average Attendance so far is 13,802.

 

Rough Calculations...

 

Dundee United and Hibs are the Only teams yet to visit and they'll attract a good crowd and a sell out respectively meaning that by the time we've played everybody the average will be more like 14,000.

 

Last Season it was about 16,000

 

So that's an average of 2,000 missing per game or 12.5%

 

Over 18 home games that'll work out at about 36,000 empty seats.

 

If anybody has the accounts to hand they can look up the revenue from Season Tickets and matchday tickets and then divide by eight to get an estimate of the impact but my very rough calculations suggest it'll be somewhere in the region of ?750,000

or about ?15K a week.

 

In the perspective of the long term financial position this isn't too alarming but in terms of short term cashflow this could make things very awkward

 

One other factor that can't be helping is that as more of the revenue is from walk up income as opposed to prepaid season tickets, revenue is now less predictable on a week by week basis.

 

I said earlier that the Dundee United game should bring in a good crowd but Hearts won't know for sure until it happens

 

Pretty much correct, although the actual numbers may be different. The most annoying thing about that is that it's all Vlad's fault that crowds are down. IF he had kept his stupid nose out of team affairs/ not **** Korobochka, Malofeev et al upon us, NOT sold our best players, NOT thrown huge wads of cash at wage thiefs such as Pinilla and Beslija then maybe, just maybe we would still be challenging the OF and playing in front of sell out crowds all this time.

 

Our present bunch are doing fairly well in the league all things considered, but the class of 2006 would beat them 10-0 every single time. IF Vlad had not been such an utter bell end about everything and held on to that group of players we would have had 2 more Euro runs and probably another cup or two to keep the fans piling in that door.

 

The guy is a tool. Having said that, touch wood he seems to be letting Csaba get on with it and we are doing a lot better than last season, long may that continue. If it does I predict sell out crowds for the last quarter of the season and the huge cash rewards that Europe could bring in. IF the mad one can just manage to keep his nose out for another 6 months we will be a lot better off financially this time next season.

[MacDonald Jardine]

Pretty much correct, although the actual numbers may be different. The most annoying thing about that is that it's all Vlad's fault that crowds are down. IF he had kept his stupid nose out of team affairs/ not **** Korobochka, Malofeev et al upon us, NOT sold our best players, NOT thrown huge wads of cash at wage thiefs such as Pinilla and Beslija then maybe, just maybe we would still be challenging the OF and playing in front of sell out crowds all this time.

 

Our present bunch are doing fairly well in the league all things considered, but the class of 2006 would beat them 10-0 every single time. IF Vlad had not been such an utter bell end about everything and held on to that group of players we would have had 2 more Euro runs and probably another cup or two to keep the fans piling in that door.

 

The guy is a tool. Having said that, touch wood he seems to be letting Csaba get on with it and we are doing a lot better than last season, long may that continue. If it does I predict sell out crowds for the last quarter of the season and the huge cash rewards that Europe could bring in. IF the mad one can just manage to keep his nose out for another 6 months we will be a lot better off financially this time next season.

 

This will be the class of 2006 he brought in in the first place.

 

Too many on here want it all ways: Vlad is supposed to maintain a 2006 type team without the debt increasing.

[hearts_crazy]

This will be the class of 2006 he brought in in the first place.

 

Too many on here want it all ways: Vlad is supposed to maintain a 2006 type team without the debt increasing.

 

Silly me, you're right, Vlad is great:mw_rolleyes:

 

I'm not a hat kicker, far from it, Vlad has done good stuff too, it's just that what he does bad he does REALLY bad. However, the fact is that crowds going down are as a direct result of what we are seeing on the pitch and, because of all the reasons I mentioned in my post that IS Vlads's fault.

 

I don't see how building a sensible sized squad around the hard core of decent players we had in the first team in 2005-2006 would necesarily be any more expensive than throwing squillions of pounds at players who never seem fit enough either mentally or physically to play for us and a huge squad of nomarks.

 

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying Hearts are crap, the players we have are good enough to be the best of the rest, I just wonder what might have been if we had held onto those players who played for the jersey, and as a TEAM, week in, week out, and sold all the dross instead of keeping the dross and selling the best players. What would you rather have? 11 good players and a small squad of reasonably good players as backup or a good/average 11 with 5 or 6 comparable quality players and 10 million Sunday League players as backup? The wage bill would probably be similar anyway.

[Victorian]

This will be the class of 2006 he brought in in the first place.

 

Too many on here want it all ways: Vlad is supposed to maintain a 2006 type team without the debt increasing.

very well said. there always seems to be a lot of 'having your cake and eating it' when it comes to our debts / investment in the team. the hard facts dictate that the debt can't be reduced at the same time as the club continuing to throw money about like it was going out of fashion.

 

as far as the debt level and the transfer proceeds are concerned.... i would have thought it would be better to wait for the accounts to july 2008 to be released before folk start screaming about were the money has gone.

 

yes there was the puzzling issue of registration fees in the last accounts, and if a similar instance happened again in the latest accounts and the debt level appeared to be higher than it should, then there should be serious questions asked.

 

only once the latest accounts are available though, imo.

[Tynie b]

HOBO

 

Touche!!

[jambojim52]

In no way am I supporting VR, BUT I can't see how we could keep the 2006 squad with the income we were getting from crowds. This IMHO is why he wanted to increase the capacity with the new stand. What he didn't think of was the opposition to his plans from the council, ect. He thought he could " waltz" ( no pun intended) in and everyone would fall into line with his big ideas.IF yes it's a BIG IF, the new stand goes up, I fully expect the players quality will rise acordingly ( after the debt is sorted out). With capacity crowds there is no way to increase revenue so the only way to do that is with the new stand. However we now have the credit crunch and new stands are risky business. Unfortuneatly I do not have a crystal ball and can't tell if the stand will ever happen.

[topcat]

Ah its all the stay away fans fault.

 

Ok you have got T.C to ?1m that stay away fans are costing HMFC,

 

i will accept that

 

but raise you to ?3m for interest payments due to the massive debt racked up.

 

Have you read any of this?

 

Firstly "the thick end of a million" means I was still estimating less than a million.

 

Secondly we were both saying that while the stay away fans may have a significant effect on our short term cash flow problems they had little impact on the long term position.

 

And aside from all that. The whole idea of there being loads of 'stay away fans' deserves critical examination.

 

Naturally crowds have dropped from the zenith of 2005-06 but generally when you compare the attendance for our home games with the fixtures against the same opponents you usually have to go back to the 1998 cup winners to find pre-Skacel attendances much bigger than the ones we're observing this season.

 

Given that last season was the worst in over a decade, and that for most of the season so far we were looking very mid table, it's actually remarkable how many people have continued turning up.

[rudi]

I think that the stay away fans have been for the most part not coming to Tynecastle because the entertainment value has been so low. Not a protest.

 

Think your wrong there mate,everyone I know who didn't renew was because of the way the club is run by Vlad,nothing to do with entertainment.

 

I've watched some pesh over the past 30 years but always went back,not now.

 

Any way it would make some people feel better if it was just the "glory hunters"or the "one season wonders" that didn't renew.

[rudi]

This will be the class of 2006 he brought in in the first place.

 

Too many on here want it all ways: Vlad is supposed to maintain a 2006 type team without the debt increasing.

 

The 2006 team didn't cost anywhere near what Vlad spent on players he wanted after Burley had gone.

 

Even Janny was not on the wages some of these trumpets are on right now.

 

Burley had a budget which he kept to,he didn't want Tall because, although he liked him, he didn't think he was worth the wages.

[Drylaw Hearts]

If you seriously don't know how the debt reached ?36m I have to assume that you have been on another planet for 3 years.

 

Do you know how it got there ?

 

The obvious answer is gross mismanagement of the clubs/UBIGS money but it's the fine detail I'm interested in.

 

Like....

 

Who on earth did we spend ?3.8million on during the financial year ending July 31st 2007 ?

[Charlie-Brown]

Do you know how it got there ?

 

The obvious answer is gross mismanagement of the clubs/UBIGS money but it's the fine detail I'm interested in.

 

Like....

 

Who on earth did we spend ?3.8million on during the financial year ending July 31st 2007 ?

 

Do the accounts itemise any specific player purchases (ie Kingston) or have they all been aggregated together?

 

Reason I ask is 1) I don't have a copy of the accounts myself otherwise I'd check 2) IF 'undisclosed' transfers are confidential between clubs then the accounts would have to aggregate all transfers together so any specific transfer value couldn't be identified?

 

Example: if you knew a club had signed 4 players for ?1M each and a 5th signing was for an undisclosed value but the accounts should a total spend of ?6M then you could work out the undisclosed fee was for ?2M.....

 

I asked earlier today does anybody know how much was shown in the accounts for the transfers of Bednar, Goncalves, Aguiar and Pinilla but nobody could provide an answer or be bothered to check - also was Kingston's signing identified separately and when was that?

[Drylaw Hearts]

Do the accounts itemise any specific player purchases (ie Kingston) or have they all been aggregated together?

 

Reason I ask is 1) I don't have a copy of the accounts myself otherwise I'd check 2) IF 'undisclosed' transfers are confidential between clubs then the accounts would have to aggregate all transfers together so any specific transfer value couldn't be identified?

 

Example: if you knew a club had signed 4 players for ?1M each and a 5th signing was for an undisclosed value but the accounts should a total spend of ?6M then you could work out the undisclosed fee was for ?2M.....

 

I asked earlier today does anybody know how much was shown in the accounts for the transfers of Bednar, Goncalves, Aguiar and Pinilla but nobody could provide an answer or be bothered to check - also was Kingston's signing identified separately and when was that?

 

I can't put my hand on the last set of accounts but even so......

 

If we paid ?3.8million for the following players registrations...

 

Bednar - who originally cost FBK ?500,000-ish

Goncalves - who originally cost FBK ?700,000-ish

Aguiar - who cost FBK nothing-ish

Kingston - who cost Hearts ?500,000-ish

Karapidis - who cost Hearts ?200,000-ish

 

Plus Pinilla

 

 

Then we've been well and truely done.

[Charlie-Brown]

I can't put my hand on the last set of accounts but even so......

 

If we paid ?3.8million for the following players registrations...

 

Bednar - who originally cost FBK ?500,000-ish

Goncalves - who originally cost FBK ?700,000-ish

Aguiar - who cost FBK nothing-ish

Kingston - who cost Hearts ?500,000-ish

Karapidis - who cost Hearts ?200,000-ish

 

Plus Pinilla

 

 

Then we've been well and truely done.

 

The cost of Pinilla's registration from Sporting & then Inters share was never disclosed as I can recall but he did become our player although in which financial years I'm not sure or at what cost although I doubt it was free given his original cost to Inter.

[Drylaw Hearts]

The cost of Pinilla's registration from Sporting & then Inters share was never disclosed as I can recall but he did become our player although in which financial years I'm not sure or at what cost although I doubt it was free given his original cost to Inter.

 

IIRC......

 

We bought one share one Season and were then stupid enough to but the other bit of him the next.

 

I'll speculate here...

 

but I suspect we've paid up to at least 50% more for Bednar and Goncalves than FBK originally did and paid a few Hundred grand for Bruno whiom FBK got for free.

 

God only knows what we paid for Pinilla.

 

I also think we're paying a 'loan fee' for FBK'ers.