Thomaso Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 You don't consider Skacel to be a legend? 3 goals in 2 cup finals and the only player to ever win 2 Scottish Cup medals with us? I'd swap him with Cruiky on your list. Not being confrontational here mate, but did you ever see Cruikie play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teuchterjambo Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 You don't consider Skacel to be a legend? 3 goals in 2 cup finals and the only player to ever win 2 Scottish Cup medals with us? I'd swap him with Cruiky on your list. Rudi has a well deserved special place in the hearts of the fans and also in the history of the club but in reality he played for us for a combined total of just over 2 seasons. A real legend in my opinion has achievement and service as a requirement. You could go through lists all day long ... John Cummings for me is a must on the list and others will have their own favourites but with the passage of time I don't think Rudi will be seen as a legend like those listed by Thomaso (even if he did miss out John Cummings). In the grand scheme of things I would have to say that Rudi is nowhere near Crucikie in terms of legendary status but not everyone was fortunate enough to see "the goalie" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gashauskis9 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Not being confrontational here mate, but did you ever see Cruikie play? I didn't no, but have masses of respect for what he achieved for us during a period when glory wasn't fast coming for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfie Conn Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Very, very few players become legends at three different clubs. I am Tottenham & work with a Derby fan, Dave Mackay is held in the same high regard by both of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I didn't no, but have masses of respect for what he achieved for us during a period when glory wasn't fast coming for us. No problem mate. Difficult to assess a player if you did not see him play. I didn't see Bauld or Mackay - I can only go with the comments of every Hearts fans who saw them play and to a man said they were fantastic. I starting going to Tynecastle as a wee nipper with my old Dad in 1965 - just at the time that the past glories of the Club were fading fast. For the next few years the ONLY good thing about going to watch Hearts was the performances of Jim Cruikshank - there were countless games where some of his saves (particularly penalty saves against Hibs and Celtic) were super human! Absolute disgrace that he earned so few Caps, and a real shame he did not win a medal playing for Hearts. The biggest disgrace however was that the Club treated him like shit!!! Cruikie was our hero in these tough days - he always will be, and richly deserves the title of 'Hearts Legend' IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwasthere1954 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 No problem mate. Difficult to assess a player if you did not see him play. I didn't see Bauld or Mackay - I can only go with the comments of every Hearts fans who saw them play and to a man said they were fantastic. I starting going to Tynecastle as a wee nipper with my old Dad in 1965 - just at the time that the past glories of the Club were fading fast. For the next few years the ONLY good thing about going to watch Hearts was the performances of Jim Cruikshank - there were countless games where some of his saves (particularly penalty saves against Hibs and Celtic) were super human! Absolute disgrace that he earned so few Caps, and a real shame he did not win a medal playing for Hearts. The biggest disgrace however was that the Club treated him like shit!!! Cruikie was our hero in these tough days - he always will be, and richly deserves the title of 'Hearts Legend' IMO. I was lucky enough to see him playing and he was my hero at the time. I went to Carrickvale Secondary School and the woodwork/metalwork and technical drawing teacher was Mr Moyes who was a real Hearts man. I remember one day saying if your a Hearts man look under that desk and tell me who's name is written there. I could not believe it. Dave Mackay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teuchterjambo Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 No problem mate. Difficult to assess a player if you did not see him play. I didn't see Bauld or Mackay - I can only go with the comments of every Hearts fans who saw them play and to a man said they were fantastic. I starting going to Tynecastle as a wee nipper with my old Dad in 1965 - just at the time that the past glories of the Club were fading fast. For the next few years the ONLY good thing about going to watch Hearts was the performances of Jim Cruikshank - there were countless games where some of his saves (particularly penalty saves against Hibs and Celtic) were super human! Absolute disgrace that he earned so few Caps, and a real shame he did not win a medal playing for Hearts. The biggest disgrace however was that the Club treated him like shit!!! Cruikie was our hero in these tough days - he always will be, and richly deserves the title of 'Hearts Legend' IMO. Sums up my feelings on Cruickie perfectly ... as you say hard times and the best thing was the goalkeeper, that just shows you how hard the times were. Super hero along with Fordy from that era ... it is not just winning medals that makes people legends, sometimes it is performing in adversity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I was lucky enough to see him playing and he was my hero at the time. I went to Carrickvale Secondary School and the woodwork/metalwork and technical drawing teacher was Mr Moyes who was a real Hearts man. I remember one day saying if your a Hearts man look under that desk and tell me who's name is written there. I could not believe it. Dave Mackay You do realise Mr Moyes just wrote Dave Mackay's name on the table don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNox Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I was in the Dome after a boring 0-0 against the hibs at Tynie and noticed Dave was in .I went up to his table and said he was my dads hero and could he sign my programme for me "Only if you sign mine son" and I had to sign his - as he left a little later he waved his programme at me .Absolute gentleman as well as a legend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts Heritage Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 You don't consider Skacel to be a legend? 3 goals in 2 cup finals and the only player to ever win 2 Scottish Cup medals with us? I'd swap him with Cruiky on your list. Apart from Davie Baird 3 Isaac Begbie 2 Jock Fairbairn 2 George Hogg 2 George Philip 2 Davie Russell 2 Rudi Skacel 2 Charlie Thomson 2 Bobby Walker 2 you are correct http://londonhearts.com/scores/misc/rollofhonour.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo1956 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I was lucky enough to see him playing and he was my hero at the time. I went to Carrickvale Secondary School and the woodwork/metalwork and technical drawing teacher was Mr Moyes who was a real Hearts man. I remember one day saying if your a Hearts man look under that desk and tell me who's name is written there. I could not believe it. Dave Mackay I went to Carrickvale too and remember Mr Moses well especially when he disappeared into the storage cupboard for a quick puff. I was also at Hampden in 1954 and since then my 3 legends have been John Cumming, Dave Mackay and Willie Bauld, not necessarily in that order. I do remember being in tears when told that Mackay had been transferred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gashauskis9 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Apart from Davie Baird 3 Isaac Begbie 2 Jock Fairbairn 2 George Hogg 2 George Philip 2 Davie Russell 2 Rudi Skacel 2 Charlie Thomson 2 Bobby Walker 2 you are correct http://londonhearts.com/scores/misc/rollofhonour.htm Ach, you win :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionDJambo Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 My old man followed Hearts through the post war years, into the early 1960s. He told me wasn't bothered about going back after we sold Dave Mackay, as he was the driving force behind the great Hearts teams he had played for. He knew we would never reach those heights again without the great man. One of my memorable times going to see Hearts since the mid 1960s, was the reception Dave Mackay got, from both sets of fans, at the Spurs match at White Hart Lane. He seemed completely overwhelmed by it. The entire ground stood to cheer and applaud him, even before he came out the tunnel. The fans of every club he played for, know they had someone special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Herbertson Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Legend - Dave Mackay Cult hero - Skacel Personal hero - Cruickie Cup-winning legend - the teams Cup-winning legend - isn't quite 'legend' as it's diffused a bit by being part of a team which will become future legends in the sense of mythic heroes of a golden era. I'd regard Cruickie as a hero along with loads of fans from the same generation but youngsters will only hear of a name and accord it suitable respect. He is a for me a personal legend. Prentice was a cult hero in his day but never a Cup-winning legend. Skacel (how we loved that left foot) was a player that fitted the club like a glove and is definitely a cult hero and a 'Cup-winning legend' but was here too short a time to be a legend - but at the same time did legendary things. Robbo is a 'legend in his own lifetime' and will eventually simply be regarded as a legend along with MacKay, Bauld, Walker and a few men who gave their all for the club and whose commitment to the club and their personal brilliance lifts them above ordinary men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo Jim Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 The word Legend is overused, but according to my late Grandad the only "Legend" he ever saw, was Bobby Walker. A man way ahead of his time, that introduced a style of inside forward play that had never been seen before. He used to constantly tell me how he could beat a man from yards away by a simple drop of the shoulder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwasthere1954 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 You do realise Mr Moyes just wrote Dave Mackay's name on the table don't you? I asked him and he swore it was another pupil that pointed it out to him. Hope he was telling the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Currahee! Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Apart from Davie Baird 3 Isaac Begbie 2 Jock Fairbairn 2 George Hogg 2 George Philip 2 Davie Russell 2 Rudi Skacel 2 Charlie Thomson 2 Bobby Walker 2 you are correct http://londonhearts.com/scores/misc/rollofhonour.htm So apart from David Baird they've all won the cup as much as Hibs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordy Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Legend - Dave Mackay Cult hero - Skacel Personal hero - Cruickie Cup-winning legend - the teams Cup-winning legend - isn't quite 'legend' as it's diffused a bit by being part of a team which will become future legends in the sense of mythic heroes of a golden era. I'd regard Cruickie as a hero along with loads of fans from the same generation but youngsters will only hear of a name and accord it suitable respect. He is a for me a personal legend. Prentice was a cult hero in his day but never a Cup-winning legend. Skacel (how we loved that left foot) was a player that fitted the club like a glove and is definitely a cult hero and a 'Cup-winning legend' but was here too short a time to be a legend - but at the same time did legendary things. Robbo is a 'legend in his own lifetime' and will eventually simply be regarded as a legend along with MacKay, Bauld, Walker and a few men who gave their all for the club and whose commitment to the club and their personal brilliance lifts them above ordinary men. Excellen post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgieboy Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Jeez . I remember Mr Moyes as well , but at Firrhill. same time as Eric Carruthers. think it was Moyes that got E.C. his chance at Hearts, defo had some connections at Tynie.. was always talking about the Hearts -Benfica European Cup game for some reason , can.t remember why though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WASTREL Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I apologise to Dave. Problem is many on here seem to think Pressley IS a Legend! Probably not what you want to hear given the tone of the thread but I know for a fact that Dave Mackay was a big fan of Pressley during his time as Hearts captain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teuchterjambo Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Probably not what you want to hear given the tone of the thread but I know for a fact that Dave Mackay was a big fan of Pressley during his time as Hearts captain. Not having a go at you here Colin, and I could imagine Dave MacKay being a Pressley fan but could everyone else please remember that thsi thread is about one of Hearts all time greats so let's not take it down by getting into the "Pressley Legend" arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guess The Crowd Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 My friends and I were fortunate enough to meet Dave MacKay in Benalmadena during the 1982 World Cup - very much the perfect gentleman as has been described on here. Just after talking to him, this good looking travel rep girl from London suddenly realised that the nice Mr MacKay that she'd been dealing with for the previous week was in fact Dave MacKay previously of Spurs - she just about freaked out, such was the regard he was he was held in down there, as well as in Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N Lincs Jambo Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I get a bit sad when I see threads like these descend into the "who is/was isn't/wasn't a legend". Never had the privilege of seeing the great Dave Mackay play but did see the likes of Jim Cruickshank, Donald Ford, Alan Anderson. I have also had the privilege of seeing the greats such as Robbo, John Colquhoun, Gary Mackay when I was a young adult and more recently the likes of Rudi Skacel. All these players had a bond with the fans and this had to be based on something. Probably no-one on JKB could say they saw the likes of Bobby or Tommy Walker play. All I can say is they all contributed to the fortunes of our famous clubs amid varying circumstances. Can you imagine Donald Ford in the 2005-06 team??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I get a bit sad when I see threads like these descend into the "who is/was isn't/wasn't a legend". Never had the privilege of seeing the great Dave Mackay play but did see the likes of Jim Cruickshank, Donald Ford, Alan Anderson. I have also had the privilege of seeing the greats such as Robbo, John Colquhoun, Gary Mackay when I was a young adult and more recently the likes of Rudi Skacel. All these players had a bond with the fans and this had to be based on something. Probably no-one on JKB could say they saw the likes of Bobby or Tommy Walker play. All I can say is they all contributed to the fortunes of our famous clubs amid varying circumstances. Can you imagine Donald Ford in the 2005-06 team??? Donald Ford was a cracking player in a pretty poor Hearts team. Forced his way into Scotland's 1974 World Cup squad which was no mean feat. Donald was also probably one of the fairest players ever to play football - I think he picked up ONE booking in his whole career and I think that was a mistake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Gilbert Wauchope Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Donald Ford was a cracking player in a pretty poor Hearts team. Forced his way into Scotland's 1974 World Cup squad which was no mean feat. Donald was also probably one of the fairest players ever to play football - I think he picked up ONE booking in his whole career and I think that was a mistake! I was at that game - Partick Thistle, I think. If I mind right, he threw the ball back for a free kick and the wind caught it - didn't it hit the ref? And he got booked. Donald was my teenage hero and your comments are spot on. His goals probably saved us from relegation in the 70s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts Heritage Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I was at that game - Partick Thistle, I think. If I mind right, he threw the ball back for a free kick and the wind caught it - didn't it hit the ref? And he got booked. Donald was my teenage hero and your comments are spot on. His goals probably saved us from relegation in the 70s. Well remembered. 24th Minute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Well remembered. 24th Minute "Cruikshank brought off a marvellous save" Yup - that was our Cruikie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Gilbert Wauchope Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Well remembered. 24th Minute Nice to know that my faculties are no' quite past it yet. A nice report. To say that the booking "raised the ire of the crowd" is putting it mildly but I don't suppose Donald cares very much now. I particularly like the end of the report - "Top Man - Ford (Hearts)". Well, I think we all knew that..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyphoonJambo Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I remember Cruicky used to chat to us kids behind the goal all the time throughout the game, mostly asking racing results. He also came to Craigroyston community centre and let me score against him. That man saved Hearts on countless occasions. If I won the lottery I would name the new stand, which I would pay for, after him. Invite his family back, get on my knees and beg them to forgive the club for the way he was treated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustWinBaby Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I remember Cruicky used to chat to us kids behind the goal all the time throughout the game, mostly asking racing results. He also came to Craigroyston community centre and let me score against him. That man saved Hearts on countless occasions. If I won the lottery I would name the new stand, which I would pay for, after him. Invite his family back, get on my knees and beg them to forgive the club for the way he was treated. Pardon my youthful ignorance, and sorry to stray off topic from DM, but how was Jim Cruikshank 'treated'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyphoonJambo Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Pardon my youthful ignorance, and sorry to stray off topic from DM, but how was Jim Cruikshank 'treated'? You know what? I have absolutely no idea but I have heard that, even to the day he died, he refused to accept an apology, for what I have no idea. Whatever it was I would still apologise. I sort of assume it was money related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 You know what? I have absolutely no idea but I have heard that, even to the day he died, he refused to accept an apology, for what I have no idea. Whatever it was I would still apologise. I sort of assume it was money related. I think he didn't get a promised testimonial. Willie Bauld at least got his, though fell out with the club over deduction of the cost of the match ball. Dave Mackay was transferred to Spurs without being consulted. (So much for the great "family club that always treated people well" myth.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hansel Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I think he didn't get a promised testimonial. Willie Bauld at least got his, though fell out with the club over deduction of the cost of the match ball. Dave Mackay was transferred to Spurs without being consulted. (So much for the great "family club that always treated people well" myth.) You were kidding right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts Heritage Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 You were kidding right? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hansel Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 No.You're talking balls right? Did they cost a lot back in the day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts Heritage Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 You're talking balls right? Did they cost a lot back in the day? Principle thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts Heritage Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hansel Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Principle thing.Quite right. Ridiculous that such a legend be treated this way. I worked for a guy like that. Wound me up something rotten and when I left I didn't turn up for my last 2 days of my notice. I'm gangsta like that Had to go back a week later to pick up my P45 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Rom?n Riquelme Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Boy my dad knew used to play 5s with him after he'd retired. Said he had an absolutely massive penis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Rom?n Riquelme Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 The word Legend is overused, but according to my late Grandad the only "Legend" he ever saw, was Bobby Walker. A man way ahead of his time, that introduced a style of inside forward play that had never been seen before. He used to constantly tell me how he could beat a man from yards away by a simple drop of the shoulder. Probably wouldn't get a game for Musselburgh Athletic now though. Old football was shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T.F.Robertson Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Probably wouldn't get a game for Musselburgh Athletic now though. Old football was shit.Yeah, everything old is shit. In the not too distant future, you know what that might say about you? Dearie me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Rom?n Riquelme Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Yeah, everything old is shit. In the not too distant future, you know what that might say about you? Dearie me. Don't know why you're getting bent out of shape. Never once insinuated 'everything old is shit'. Watch any footage of football from the 1950s or before. The standard is shocking. Fact. I doubt Bobby Walker would be giving any half decent professional footballer in the present day a run for their money. Maybe Bobby smoked slightly less woodbines than the other boys that had spent all morning doing manual labour though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T.F.Robertson Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Fair enough, but if the game is still kicking around in, say, fifty years, will your equivalent be making a similar pronouncement? I'm not "boos" btw, just struck me as a bit of a hypothetical assessment. Not that any of it really matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hansel Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Don't know why you're getting bent out of shape. Never once insinuated 'everything old is shit'. Watch any footage of football from the 1950s or before. The standard is shocking. Fact. I doubt Bobby Walker would be giving any half decent professional footballer in the present day a run for their money. Maybe Bobby smoked slightly less woodbines than the other boys that had spent all morning doing manual labour though. Association Football - Harry Enfield - Mr Cholmondley-Warner: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T.F.Robertson Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Association Football - Harry Enfield - Mr Cholmondley-Warner: The good old days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreativeCat Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Don't know why you're getting bent out of shape. Never once insinuated 'everything old is shit'. Watch any footage of football from the 1950s or before. The standard is shocking. Fact. I doubt Bobby Walker would be giving any half decent professional footballer in the present day a run for their money. Maybe Bobby smoked slightly less woodbines than the other boys that had spent all morning doing manual labour though. Don't you dare talk about Bobby Walker like that. He is the greatest player to ever play for Heart of Midlothian FFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwidoug Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I started going to home games around 1955 and it's an abject frustration that I have no memory of seeing Dave Mackay. I remember CBW, John Cumming, Glidden, Alex Young, Gordon Smith and many others but I just can't remember seeing Mackay playing. Not fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buba Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Don't know why you're getting bent out of shape. Never once insinuated 'everything old is shit'. Watch any footage of football from the 1950s or before. The standard is shocking. Fact. I doubt Bobby Walker would be giving any half decent professional footballer in the present day a run for their money. Maybe Bobby smoked slightly less woodbines than the other boys that had spent all morning doing manual labour though. I think it's a hard thing to say, Bobby Walker was obviously a natural born gifted player and ahead of his time, if you stuck him in today's team then yeah he would probably struggle a lot and look poor, but if he hadve been born in this day and age and had the same coaching and fitness, with all the knowledge we have now on nutrition and training and all the latest facilities lightweight boots and balls then he'd probably be far too good for hearts, you could reverse it and say that if Ronaldo or Messi hadve been born at the start of the 20th century and were playing with massive boots on and a concrete ball with no real training physical or tactical you'd probably be saying the same thing about them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Association Football - Harry Enfield - Mr Cholmondley-Warner: Charles Charlie Charles [emoji1]I love that sketch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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