FANS FORUM

[sniffer]

What happened at last week's Fans Forum AGM? Has it been wound up or are the minutes going to be posted at some point to tell us what happened?

 

:107years:

[Therapist]

I suspect they all slapped each other on the back and told each other how important they are and what a great job they're doing. Business as usual really....

[Buffalo Bill]

I'm sure Graham won't mind me answering this as someone who observed:

 

There was really only one issue on the agenda as such, and that was FF itself.

 

It's at a wee bit of a crossroads just now but I think there will be a meeting arranged for January.

 

The night was really all about Gary MacKay, who answered questions for about an hour I think. Quite a low turn out but a really enjoyable night.

 

After it all, everyone present slapped each other on the back and told each other how important they are and what a great job they're doing.

 

Well done Graham for organising.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[davemclaren]

 

After it all, everyone present slapped each other on the back and told each other how important they are and what a great job they're doing.

 

 

.

 

I'll second that.

[sniffer]

How many or little attended the meeting?

 

:107years:

[davemclaren]

How many or little attended the meeting?

 

:107years:

 

About 25ish.

[roberto]

About 25ish.

is that a typo , as i thought there were 250 :rolleyes:

[MackaysCentreSpot]

I suspect they all slapped each other on the back and told each other how important they are and what a great job they're doing. Business as usual really....

 

 

Thats a wonderful response. If you felt that strongly that the FF was not doing what you expect them to why did you not get along and let them know your opinion in person.

 

 

No of course not, its easier to come on here and type your mature response to the OP question.

[portobellojambo1]

Thats a wonderful response. If you felt that strongly that the FF was not doing what you expect them to why did you not get along and let them know your opinion in person.

 

 

No of course not, its easier to come on here and type your mature response to the OP question.

 

I couldn't make the meeting MCS.

 

Was a new committee elected, and if so whom ? (or is Graham preparing something to be posted on the FF forum on here which will detail this).

[Dougie Masterton]

I couldn't make the meeting MCS.

 

Was a new committee elected, and if so whom ? (or is Graham preparing something to be posted on the FF forum on here which will detail this).

 

One 1 committee member showed up, poor show really.

As a matter of interest, who are the other members?

[portobellojambo1]

One 1 committee member showed up, poor show really.

As a matter of interest, who are the other members?

 

The committee members were/are myself, Old Pivotonian, Borthers, Jamboelite, and MackaysCentreSpot, Dougie (plus the co-opted reps from the other groups).

 

Barby stood down around 13 months ago now, I indicated my intention to stand down around the same time, I would imagine Borthers will be standing down as well (he is now based through in Glasgow I think), not sure about the others.

 

I wanted to go to the meeting but just couldn't manage it unfortunately.

[sniffer]

The committee members were/are myself, Old Pivotonian, Borthers, Jamboelite, and MackaysCentreSpot, Dougie (plus the co-opted reps from the other groups).

 

Surely, according to the constitution, it must be "were" committee members unless they were all re-elected at the AGM?

 

:107years:

[MackaysCentreSpot]

Unforunately I was unable to attend the meeting due to prior arrangments which were organised well before the FF AGM was arranged.

 

I did however give my apologise to Graham to announce at the meeting.

 

The committee members were/are myself, Old Pivotonian, Borthers, Jamboelite, and MackaysCentreSpot, Dougie (plus the co-opted reps from the other groups).

 

Barby stood down around 13 months ago now, I indicated my intention to stand down around the same time, I would imagine Borthers will be standing down as well (he is now based through in Glasgow I think), not sure about the others.

 

I wanted to go to the meeting but just couldn't manage it unfortunately.

 

To clarify, PJ1, Barby, Borthers and Jamboelite have all stepped down as FF committee members and a big thank you goes out to them for all their hard work over the years and this left myself and Graham as the only active members of the FF.

 

The whole object of the AGM was to try and elect a new committee but due to the fact that there was only one committee member present this could not happen.

 

There were several people who attended the meeting who made it known on the night that they would be interested in getting involved and discussing in what capacity the FF would best serve the fans and what direction the FF has to take in the future and if indeed the FF has a future.

 

Anyone interested in becoming involved please pm either myself or Old Pivotonian.

 

As far as I am concerned the FF is still in existance at this moment in time and is still showing signs of life. I have told you all that I can and there will be an announcement regarding the Fans Forum in the near future.

[Nelly Terraces]

Can anyone tell me who can attend these meetings, and is the FF something you have to be a member of?

 

Surley with this thread, the one about the SOH/Trust meeting with Shabbs etc, it's time we had one united supporters body? The only reason I can see for there not being is that of protectionism within these seperate bodies.

 

I hear there's a vacancy at one supporters organisation coming up though........

[MackaysCentreSpot]

Can anyone tell me who can attend these meetings, and is the FF something you have to be a member of?

 

Surley with this thread, the one about the SOH/Trust meeting with Shabbs etc, it's time we had one united supporters body? The only reason I can see for there not being is that of protectionism within these seperate bodies.

 

I hear there's a vacancy at one supporters organisation coming up though........

 

Can anyone tell me who can attend these meetings?

 

NT you just come along.

 

Is the FF something you have to be a member of?

 

The FF does not have a membership as such.

 

Simply being a HMFC supporter allows you to attend.

[sniffer]

Can anyone tell me who can attend these meetings?

 

NT you just come along.

 

.

 

 

How often are these meetings held and where? Obviously, I don't just mean the AGMs!

 

:107years:

[grumpyjambo]

I suspect they all slapped each other on the back and told each other how important they are and what a great job they're doing. Business as usual really....

 

 

Please feel free to come along and voice your opinion, as has already been stated it is open to any Hearts supporter.

 

The next meeting however will decide if the FF will continue.

[grumpyjambo]

I'm sure Graham won't mind me answering this as someone who observed:

 

There was really only one issue on the agenda as such, and that was FF itself.

 

It's at a wee bit of a crossroads just now but I think there will be a meeting arranged for January.

 

The night was really all about Gary MacKay, who answered questions for about an hour I think. Quite a low turn out but a really enjoyable night.

 

After it all, everyone present slapped each other on the back and told each other how important they are and what a great job they're doing.

 

Well done Graham for organising.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

 

 

That about sums it up, listening to GM for an hour was a real pleasure.

[Jamboelite]

The committee members were/are myself, Old Pivotonian, Borthers, Jamboelite, and MackaysCentreSpot, Dougie (plus the co-opted reps from the other groups).

 

Barby stood down around 13 months ago now, I indicated my intention to stand down around the same time, I would imagine Borthers will be standing down as well (he is now based through in Glasgow I think), not sure about the others.

 

I wanted to go to the meeting but just couldn't manage it unfortunately.

 

I stood down as well but was happy to help Graham out until the new committee was elected and in place.

 

Im off to slap someones back and tell them how great we are.

 

God im important.

[MackaysCentreSpot]

Like in many if not all organisations it is always the few that give up their time to get involved and try and do something positive.

 

But it is always easier for those who sit back and do nothing to criticise.

[Nookie Bear]

Can anyone tell me who can attend these meetings, and is the FF something you have to be a member of?

 

Surley with this thread, the one about the SOH/Trust meeting with Shabbs etc, it's time we had one united supporters body? The only reason I can see for there not being is that of protectionism within these seperate bodies.

 

I hear there's a vacancy at one supporters organisation coming up though........

 

Nelly, by the sounds of it, the FF is dying a slow death and is ripe for a vibrant new breed of fan who will transform the FF into a passionate defender of Heart of Midlothian and who will represent the seriously disillusioned Hearts supporter. The silence of the supporters' groups over the last couple of years has been noticeable and this is when they should have been at the front and joining forces.

 

I'll bring the pitchforks, you bring the flamin' torches......

[MackaysCentreSpot]

Can anyone tell me who can attend these meetings, and is the FF something you have to be a member of?

 

Surley with this thread, the one about the SOH/Trust meeting with Shabbs etc, it's time we had one united supporters body? The only reason I can see for there not being is that of protectionism within these seperate bodies.

 

I hear there's a vacancy at one supporters organisation coming up though........

 

 

NT you make a valid point. I am not trying to blow the FF trumpet here but it was the FF who approched the other three groups and asked them to get round the table and discuss looking at having one united supporters body.

 

But this offer was never accepted. And if being honest I would say that your reasoning comes pretty close to the reason why. There are a lot of good people in all these groups but some do not fancy being left out of the limelight if all groups were to become one new body. The seperate groups keep them in a position of importance where this might not be the case otherwise.

[sniffer]

NT you make a valid point. I am not trying to blow the FF trumpet here but it was the FF who approched the other three groups and asked them to get round the table and discuss looking at having one united supporters body.

 

But this offer was never accepted. And if being honest I would say that your reasoning comes pretty close to the reason why. There are a lot of good people in all these groups but some do not fancy being left out of the limelight if all groups were to become one new body. The seperate groups keep them in a position of importance where this might not be the case otherwise.

 

Actually I think you will find that the Supporters Trust backed the idea of forming one organisation and drew up a draft constitution for forming one. Their position has never altered.

 

:107years:

[MackaysCentreSpot]

Actually I think you will find that the Supporters Trust backed the idea of forming one organisation and drew up a draft constitution for forming one. Their position has never altered.

 

:107years:

 

Please I do not getting into a slanging match about the different groups. But yes it was the Trust who drew up a draft constitution and made it public without any consultation with any of the other groups was it not.

 

Thats not the best way to try and get all the groups to come together. In fact that actually made the process a lot more difficult.

[sniffer]

Please I do not getting into a slanging match about the different groups. But yes it was the Trust who drew up a draft constitution and made it public without any consultation with any of the other groups was it not.

 

Thats not the best way to try and get all the groups to come together. In fact that actually made the process a lot more difficult.

 

I can assure you that I wasn't slagging anyone, merely stating a fact.

 

:107years:

[MackaysCentreSpot]

I can assure you that I wasn't slagging anyone, merely stating a fact.

 

:107years:

 

 

I never thought you were. All I was saying that if the groups take the stance of criticising one another about what they have and have not done then any idea of ever getting along as one body would not be very difficult.

[Jambo1874]

NT you make a valid point. I am not trying to blow the FF trumpet here but it was the FF who approched the other three groups and asked them to get round the table and discuss looking at having one united supporters body.

 

But this offer was never accepted. And if being honest I would say that your reasoning comes pretty close to the reason why. There are a lot of good people in all these groups but some do not fancy being left out of the limelight if all groups were to become one new body. The seperate groups keep them in a position of importance where this might not be the case otherwise.

 

Please I do not getting into a slanging match about the different groups. But yes it was the Trust who drew up a draft constitution and made it public without any consultation with any of the other groups was it not.

 

Thats not the best way to try and get all the groups to come together. In fact that actually made the process a lot more difficult.

 

Your first quote suggest that other groups (Trust included) wouldn't want one supporters group as they would not be in the limelight so I think it's only fair to point out that Trust is definitely in favour of one supporters group, even though it would effectively mean the end of the Trust itself. That didn't come across in your first post!

 

As far as I am aware the only group defintely against it were the Federation - shareholders and FF certainly were open to discussion about it but were annoyed about the way the paper was put in the public domain. Fair enough . . .

[MackaysCentreSpot]

Your first quote suggest that other groups (Trust included) wouldn't want one supporters group as they would not be in the limelight so I think it's only fair to point out that Trust is definitely in favour of one supporters group, even though it would effectively mean the end of the Trust itself. That didn't come across in your first post!

 

As far as I am aware the only group defintely against it were the Federation - shareholders and FF certainly were open to discussion about it but were annoyed about the way the paper was put in the public domain. Fair enough . . .

 

So if the Trust, The Shareholders and The Fans Forum are all at least still open to discussing the issue regarding one supporters group, then why do we not get the ball rolling and arrange a meeting with two representatives from each of the four groups committee 's attending.

 

I did say all four groups as the Federation should be invited to any meeting.

 

It is time we all buried the hatchet and got together for the common good of the club and its supporters.

[Jambo1874]

So if the Trust, The Shareholders and The Fans Forum are all at least still open to discussing the issue regarding one supporters group, then why do we not get the ball rolling and arrange a meeting with two representatives from each of the four groups committee 's attending.

 

I did say all four groups as the Federation should be invited to any meeting.

 

It is time we all buried the hatchet and got together for the common good of the club and its supporters.

 

Agree!

 

Will mention it on Monday at Trust mtg with Csaba and see if something can be set up again.

[sniffer]

So if the Trust, The Shareholders and The Fans Forum are all at least still open to discussing the issue regarding one supporters group, then why do we not get the ball rolling and arrange a meeting with two representatives from each of the four groups committee 's attending.

 

I did say all four groups as the Federation should be invited to any meeting.

 

It is time we all buried the hatchet and got together for the common good of the club and its supporters.

 

Firstly, back to the original point - Does the Forum still exist? If there were only around 25 people and one committee member present at the AGM, it doesn't really have much credibility to represent the Hearts fans' views. Who would be their TWO representatives and on what basis could they claim to represent anyone, if they have not been formally elected?

 

One of the frequent complaints we hear on this forum is fans complaining that supporters reps have no legitimate right to speak for them. In the case of the FF it's fact by the sound of it! If 250 or 1000 fans had turned up at the FF AGM and elected a committee and agreed on a strategy then they might be taken seriously but 25 people at a meeting amounts to no more than having a chat in a pub or on a supporters's bus and deciding that all Hearts fans think the way that you do. It is NOT a sensible or defensible approach. As far as I can make out, last week's FF meeting was the first in over a year, how can they say that they represent us on that basis?

 

 

 

:107years:

[MackaysCentreSpot]

Firstly, back to the original point - Does the Forum still exist? If there were only around 25 people and one committee member present at the AGM, it doesn't really have much credibility to represent the Hearts fans' views. Who would be their TWO representatives and on what basis could they claim to represent anyone, if they have not been formally elected?

 

One of the frequent complaints we hear on this forum is fans complaining that supporters reps have no legitimate right to speak for them. In the case of the FF it's fact by the sound of it! If 250 or 1000 fans had turned up at the FF AGM and elected a committee and agreed on a strategy then they might be taken seriously but 25 people at a meeting amounts to no more than having a chat in a pub or on a supporters's bus and deciding that all Hearts fans think the way that you do. It is NOT a sensible or defensible approach. As far as I can make out, last week's FF meeting was the first in over a year, how can they say that they represent us on that basis?

 

:107years:

 

You come on here and criticise and make statements yet you clearly do not know how the Fans forum works and what it was set up for.

 

The Fans Forum have never ever claimed to speak on behalf of the Hearts supporters.

 

At this time the Fans Forums heart is still beating even if it is only weakly, but it is people like you who make me even more determined that it continues to survive and gets back to full health.

[sniffer]

You come on here and criticise and make statements yet you clearly do not know how the Fans forum works and what it was set up for.

 

The Fans Forum have never ever claimed to speak on behalf of the Hearts supporters.

 

At this time the Fans Forums heart is still beating even if it is only weakly, but it is people like you who make me even more determined that it continues to survive and gets back to full health.

 

So, pray enlighten us what does the FF do, if it doesn't represent us and never bothers to meet or talk to us, mere supporters? On whose behalf does it nominate reps to sit on G10 and to fraternise in the boardroom and directors's box? Wasn't it set up by CPR because he wanted to avoid speaking to the more established fans' organisations?

 

By the way, you shouldn't be so super sensitive. This is a fans forum (Kickback) and, as far as I know, it was established as a media to enable fans to communicate with one another and to express opinions. That's what I was doing! You are entitled to yours but if you want to express it, then be prepared for others to disagree with it. I am!

 

:107years:

[Jamboelite]

Ok im going to very quickly answer as much as i can.

 

1. Normally there is about 250 at any meeting of the FF for various reasons this wasnt the case.

2. The FF is unique in that it doesnt ask for membership and doesnt have any payments to it for membership originally it was a tool for the Pieman but that was quickly turned around on him.

3. All groups have been quiet that doesnt mean they havent been working its just that trying to get any information out of Tynie is difficult.

4. Ideally the FF is the perferct group to be used to continue on the fans views the trouble is how do you get those views and then communicate a response on a regular basis without any funding.

 

There is scope for people to join the committee and there is scope to just be at the meetings for all the people who have an opinion on KB why not join and make your comments to HMFC (albeit you are expressing fans views and concerns not just your own).

 

The FF needs help from people committed to making it work and finding ways to both keep its non membership status ( i find this the most important as it allows anyone to speak) but still be a voice that can communicate an opinion from supporters to club and visa versa.

 

One low attendance FF meeting doesnt signal the death just that it needs a fresh injection.

 

I did it for 3 years and found it very rewarding and challenging all groups need to get together and discuss the way forward for ALL of them.

 

I would hate to see the FF die as it is there for a reason for you, me and anyone else who loves the maroon.

 

And can we drop this crap about directors box and swanning around like we are all high and mighty in an agreement discussed with people who were in attendance last year (fans)if it would be ok for us to take up 2 tickets every 4th home game to discuss things and everyone agreed this was fine.

 

Invariably what we did with our tickets was give them to fans so they could enjoy a day out there have been many who have received these tickets.

 

If its worth saving fans will save the FF...............

[JamboAl]

The FF is only as good as the fans who attend the meetings. If they attend in decent numbers and elect the right people, there can be worthwhile dialogue with the Board and, provided the Board also approach the dialogue in a fair and reasonable manner, all supporters will benefit.

This is not so easy now as previously. It was, I think, Colin Sked's brainchild when he was Customer Services manager and initially provided fans with input and allowed them to find out the reasons for the Board doing as they did in certain situations; these reasons were not always what the fan wanted to hear. The aim I believe was to bring the club and the supporters closer together.

Now with UBIG holding such a high proportion of the shares they may be less receptive to fans' input and that certainly seems to be the case if only because they do not allow the FF free use of the suite. I feel they should seriously rethink this policy.

I'll finish with my opening statement - The FF is only as good as the fans who attend the meetings.

[Therapist]

There should be only one all-encompassing all-inclusive supporters group. Having the various bodies that currently exist simply means general inefficiency, ineffective communication and a lack of coordination and focus.

[Guest jambomickey]

There should be only one all-encompassing all-inclusive supporters group. Having the various bodies that currently exist simply means general inefficiency, ineffective communication and a lack of coordination and focus.

 

agreed

[JamboAl]

There should be only one all-encompassing all-inclusive supporters group. Having the various bodies that currently exist simply means general inefficiency, ineffective communication and a lack of coordination and focus.

 

So what are you going to do to help bring this about?

[Therapist]

So what are you going to do to help bring this about?

 

Personally I'm not going to do anything other than urge the officials of the various bodies to get together and create a new, single entity.

[sniffer]

Ok im going to very quickly answer as much as i can.

 

There is scope for people to join the committee and there is scope to just be at the meetings for all the people who have an opinion on KB why not join and make your comments to HMFC (albeit you are expressing fans views and concerns not just your own).

 

............

 

And can we drop this crap about directors box and swanning around like we are all high and mighty in an agreement discussed with people who were in attendance last year (fans)if it would be ok for us to take up 2 tickets every 4th home game to discuss things and everyone agreed this was fine.

 

Invariably what we did with our tickets was give them to fans so they could enjoy a day out there have been many who have received these tickets.

 

If its worth saving fans will save the FF...............

 

Let's have some consistency here, please. Either the FF represents the interests of and speaks for the fans or it doesn't. My post was in response to McKayCentreSpot's post suggesting that I had no right to express an opinion and saying that the FF does not speak on behalf of the fans and that I have got it all wrong. But now here you are saying that you do represent the fans. So, which is it to be?

 

I don't have an issue with any fans organisation listening to views and representing them to the club. That's what fans organisations exist for, and I would hope that such views when expressed properly carry more clout than those expressed by the odd moaner or individual fan. But what I was asking for was a simple explanation of the FF's credibility and status.

 

We have now established that just over 20 people and only one FF committee member attended last week's AGM and, I am told, that this was the first such meeting with the "ordinary" supporters for over a year. Your suggestion that FF meetings "normally" attract over 250 fans is, I suggest, based on one or, possibly, two occasions, during the final throes of the Robinson era. I suggest that it's been a very, long time ago since the FF attracted anything like those numbers to any of its public meetings (which of late have been like hens teeth) but please feel free to correct my misconceptions, if that's what they are?

 

As for my reference to "ordinary supporter" and to the boardroom and directors' box, these are based on a direct quotation on KB earlier this season from one of the FF committee members. If you cast your mind back a few weeks, Old Pivotian came on here to justify his presence in the directors' box, by saying that he had been there to represent the views of the "ordinary" fan. My point then and is now how could he do that, given that it had been over a year since the FF had had a public meeting even at that stage?

 

So, to summarise:

 

• Does the FF or does it not represent the Hearts fans?
  
• What right does it have to do this (I am not saying that it doesn't, just asking why does it think it represents mine and any other Hearts fans' views?
  and, finally,
  
  • If no committee was elected at last week's agm what is the constitutional position of the FF? Does it still exist or not?
    

 

Hopefully, you will agree that all of these are quite reasonable and legitimate questions to ask the FF Committee - although is there one?

 

:107years:

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

If the Fans Forum isn't meeting then, by its constitution, it should be wound up.

[Dougie Masterton]

Actually I think you will find that the Supporters Trust backed the idea of forming one organisation and drew up a draft constitution for forming one. Their position has never altered.

 

:107years:

 

You are quite correct there mate. It was also raised again last week at the meeting.

[Buffalo Bill]

1,294 people viewed the thread on Kickback but only 20-odd showed up.

 

Yet I still think the FF is a worthwhile avenue to explore for the average fan, like me.

 

There were a number of issues raised and I always enjoy listening to the opinions of others (two ears: one mouth and all that) and I think the Forum just needs to pick itself up and get going again.

 

You have to ask what an acceptable amount of attendance is? It didn't matter to me last week if 20 or 200 turned up. The issues, and the conversation was there.

 

The current committee has been going for a few years now. Perhaps the best thing for the FF is a bit of new blood and I think they'll get that.

 

It's easy to knock it, but I really did enjoy the night.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[redm]

Let's have some consistency here, please. Either the FF represents the interests of and speaks for the fans or it doesn't. My post was in response to McKayCentreSpot's post suggesting that I had no right to express an opinion and saying that the FF does not speak on behalf of the fans and that I have got it all wrong. But now here you are saying that you do represent the fans. So, which is it to be?

 

I don't have an issue with any fans organisation listening to views and representing them to the club. That's what fans organisations exist for, and I would hope that such views when expressed properly carry more clout than those expressed by the odd moaner or individual fan. But what I was asking for was a simple explanation of the FF's credibility and status.

 

We have now established that just over 20 people and only one FF committee member attended last week's AGM and, I am told, that this was the first such meeting with the "ordinary" supporters for over a year. Your suggestion that FF meetings "normally" attract over 250 fans is, I suggest, based on one or, possibly, two occasions, during the final throes of the Robinson era. I suggest that it's been a very, long time ago since the FF attracted anything like those numbers to any of its public meetings (which of late have been like hens teeth) but please feel free to correct my misconceptions, if that's what they are?

 

As for my reference to "ordinary supporter" and to the boardroom and directors' box, these are based on a direct quotation on KB earlier this season from one of the FF committee members. If you cast your mind back a few weeks, Old Pivotian came on here to justify his presence in the directors' box, by saying that he had been there to represent the views of the "ordinary" fan. My point then and is now how could he do that, given that it had been over a year since the FF had had a public meeting even at that stage?

 

So, to summarise:

 

• Does the FF or does it not represent the Hearts fans?
  
• What right does it have to do this (I am not saying that it doesn't, just asking why does it think it represents mine and any other Hearts fans' views?
  and, finally,
  
  • If no committee was elected at last week's agm what is the constitutional position of the FF? Does it still exist or not?
    

 

Hopefully, you will agree that all of these are quite reasonable and legitimate questions to ask the FF Committee - although is there one?

 

:107years:

 

I don't know what you're trying to get them to say and forgive me if I'm wrong but put simply, it looks very much like you want them to say that they represent the fans so that you can tell them that they don't.

 

I'm no expert on the Fans Forum but from what I have been told, it sounds like a potentially effective but under-used vehicle for communication between the fans and the club. To my mind, something like that should be embraced and encouraged and if it's floundering a little at the moment, perhaps the critics could exercise a little patience before sticking the boot in?

 

There's a strange culture of suspicion and paranoia sometimes amongst our supporters and I just don't believe that the FF is a deserving target. From what I understand, they're trying to improve communication between the fans and the club and surely that can't be a bad thing?

[JamboAl]

Actually I think you will find that the Supporters Trust backed the idea of forming one organisation and drew up a draft constitution for forming one. Their position has never altered.

 

:107years:

 

I am sure they did - provided they ruled the roost. And therein lies the reason it is unlikely to happen.

What must be remembered is that the Trust is the newest of these organisations and if I were an official of the Federation, the Shareholders Association or the FF, who had served for years, I would not like to be taken over by some new organisation. The Trust was set up with a view to running the club and this is now an extremely unlikely possibility when one man (or a company) owns 95% of the shareholding. It certainly had its merits when Robinson only owned 29% of the shares and the remaining 71% of the shareholders might be persuaded to react to our views but that day seems a distant memory.

The only way out is for another white knight to come along and embrace our wishes, or for a consortium of money men (local preferably) to get together and buy out our current owners. Until that happens we are divided whether we like it or not

[sniffer]

I don't know what you're trying to get them to say and forgive me if I'm wrong but put simply, it looks very much like you want them to say that they represent the fans so that you can tell them that they don't. - Yes, you are wrong and it seems that you are the one that's suspicious and paranoid. My questions are completely open and my earlier post states clearly that I believe an organisation that speaks collectively for the ordinary punter is a good thing. It's just that any organisation that does so must be a credible one and I was seeking to establish the FF's credentials. It seems that I have hit a raw nerve however!

 

I'm no expert on the Fans Forum but from what I have been told, it sounds like a potentially effective but under-used vehicle for communication between the fans and the club. To my mind, something like that should be embraced and encouraged and if it's floundering a little at the moment, perhaps the critics could exercise a little patience before sticking the boot in? As I said earlier, anyone has the right to express an opinion on KB. If you read my posts carefully you will see that I have asked valid questions and sought to establish facts, before expressing mine. It appears however that the FF has been floundering (as you describe it) for some time and so perhaps they are not the right vehicle for representing supporters interests.

 

There's a strange culture of suspicion and paranoia sometimes amongst our supporters and I just don't believe that the FF is a deserving target. From what I understand, they're trying to improve communication between the fans and the club and surely that can't be a bad thing? I have covered this point. I suggest that before they can represent the fans' interests and speak for them, they need to establish their credentials in the eyes of the fans. If they don't meet with the fans regularly and are not elected by them, then how can they legitimately claim to represent them (Some say that they do represent the fans others say that they are not that sort of organisation and I have sought clarification on that point. I am prepared to listen and be convinced. So, as I said, who is the one that is paranoid?

[

[kirstyhearts]

I agree with redm, people are just trying to do their best and do what they believe in. As usual you get some people trying to sh** stir. If you cared that strongly you would have went along to the meeting.

[sniffer]

I agree with redm, people are just trying to do their best and do what they believe in. As usual you get some people trying to sh** stir. If you cared that strongly you would have went along to the meeting.

 

Just like the FF committee you mean?

 

:107years:

[JamboAl]

Just like the FF committee you mean?

 

:107years:

 

The FF exists to represent fans, as do the other bodies, but if you don't go along to the meetings and say what's bothering you, you can't be represented. The committee could I suppose come along to your house and ask what improvements you would like or they they could spend all day by a computer and make notes from JKB of all the conflicting issues people raise..

If you do go along you could offer yourself for election so enabling you to make a more direct input into the running of the club. Or you could just sit on your arse at home and moan.

[sniffer]

The FF exists to represent fans, as do the other bodies, but if you don't go along to the meetings and say what's bothering you, you can't be represented. The committee could I suppose come along to your house and ask what improvements you would like or they they could spend all day by a computer and make notes from JKB of all the conflicting issues people raise..

If you do go along you could offer yourself for election so enabling you to make a more direct input into the running of the club. Or you could just sit on your arse at home and moan.

 

 

If the committee can't be bothered to hold public meetings or to turn up to the AGM, then what is the point of turning up as a supporter? I think that what we have established here - and I thank you for your contribution - is that the FFdoesn't actually represent the interests of the majority of the Hearts fans and that it may not even exist anymore.

 

I am not sure where you got the impression that I don't play an active part in attending supporters meetings because it's certainly not something that I have said or alluded to here. Indeed, I have been a regular contributor to HMSA, Federation, Trust, SOH and even the Fans Forum meetings over the past few years and so you are way off the mark my friend.

 

Lastly, re your critcism of people sitting at home on their computers pontificating on various issues, may I respectfully draw your attention to the respective number of posts that each of us has made on KB and invite you to reconsider your earlier comments?

 

 

 

:107years:

[Jamboelite]

If the committee can't be bothered to hold public meetings or to turn up to the AGM, then what is the point of turning up as a supporter? I think that what we have established here - and I thank you for your contribution - is that the FFdoesn't actually represent the interests of the majority of the Hearts fans and that it may not even exist anymore.

 

I am not sure where you got the impression that I don't play an active part in attending supporters meetings because it's certainly not something that I have said or alluded to here. Indeed, I have been a regular contributor to HMSA, Federation, Trust, SOH and even the Fans Forum meetings over the past few years and so you are way off the mark my friend.

 

Lastly, re your critcism of people sitting at home on their computers pontificating on various issues, may I respectfully draw your attention to the respective number of posts that each of us has made on KB and invite you to reconsider your earlier comments?

 

:107years:

 

Ok sniffer i'll try to answer everything i can you havent hit a raw nerve with me despite what you seem to think but you have asked over and over again so your interest seems keen.

 

The FF in the last year has been in transition with committee members leaving and its not that we cant be bothered to hold them its just been very difficult i agree thats not ideal.

 

How to represent the majority of fans well what can you say to that one in current climates can any of the groups represent the majority of fans everyone is divided on every issue i think all that supporters groups can do is represent as many fans as they can and communicate as much information as these fans want.

 

The FF is for YOU and anyone else that supports Hearts your views should you wish to express them can be easily communicated through the members or through the website and the FF will do their best to represent them and seek answers. These will then be communicated to as many as possible this goes for anyone else out there that has valid points to address (not valid in my eyes just sensible questions)

 

I was not at the meeting as i was standing down and through a personal set of circumstances couldnt attend which quite frankly has got nothing to do with you.

 

The FF is in desperate need of fresh blood to continue and most committee members have stood down in the last 12 months which is why there wasnt many in attendance at the last meeting.

 

How we communicate to fans is the problem that all FF groups have faced as i have said before we dont have funding for anything so any cost comes out of our pocket. We try our best to mention when meetings are on through KB, FF site, Match Programme and through putting up posters in pubs etc......... and yes the FF has been quiet over the last year but there is a reason for that.

 

Getting answers from this club isnt easy they arent readily open to meetings all that often but all groups do their best, the question is this is a group set up for every fan to communicate their opinion which is represented by fans and doesnt have members worth saving.

 

The answer to that is over to you ?

 

Personally it is but it needs help it needs enthusiastic people to take it up and say right how do we communicate better to the fans/club, how do we move this forward and how do we get people to believe its worthwhile.

 

More importantly how do we continue to represent more and more of the fans in order to have an influence in how things are run for our club.

 

You make very valid points sniffer

 

1. Should the FF continue - I dont know the answer to that if the fans see it as potentially a good vehicle then yes of course.

2. Has it struggled in the last year - Yes i think it has it needs a change of direction and fresh blood but this isnt only the FF's fault i feel the club hasnt been forthcoming with any info very easily.

3. Does it represent the majority of fans - No to be honest which group does what it does do is try to represent everyone it can who wants to use it (please dont respond by saying only 20 of them)

 

Its one thing to criticise people and its your right as everyone is a member of the FF as far as im concerned but people have put alot of time and effort into it they may have come up short at times in peoples eyes but its not through the want of trying.

 

The FF could be huge it doesnt have any agenda or ties to anyone its only there if you love Hearts surely thats worth saving and exactly what people are crying out for ?

 

The FF can only be as good as the fans want it to be

 

I hope this answers some of the questions and if you have more happy to give you my opinion