Alan Shearer - Newcastle's Virtual Albatross

[VeraNT]

I know there are some Newcastle "supporters" on here. Would like to hear some feedback on the continued harping on about Shearer coming on board at Newcastle. For me the guy sits there like some (unproven) saviour and his name gets cast up as a sign of hope and success. The only thing is that whatever regime is installed at the club - from owner to manager - they are constanly challenged by the Shearer factor. If there was a similar scenario at Tynecastle I would want whoever was in question to go and get a job, as far away as possible, to at least give some indication that he could deliver or make a total mess of manager/coach responsibilities.

[iainmac]

Think Shearer held more sway in the dressing room that some of the managers that he played for but he won't take the Toon job - yet.

 

He's quite happy to bask in his 'Legend' status at the moment and isn't daft enough to take over a struggling team as well as there being absolute chaos off the pitch at St James' Park just now. That doesn't stop him putting his tuppence worth in on any subject that he feels like though.

 

Meanwhile, he's quite happy to bide his time and keep raking in the cash from his media work. He will be the manager there one day - I've no doubt about that - but the time would have to be right for Alan Shearer.

[Lay of the Land]

I'd happily let him do his schooling at our gaff and get our squad into shape.

 

He might even coax a few goals out of our forwards

[Miller Jambo 60]

I'd happily let him do his schooling at our gaff and get our squad into shape.

 

He might even coax a few goals out of our forwards

 

Something for me to dream about.

[Charlie-Brown]

The guy has never managed at any level yet he is the toon saviour in waiting....it's a fantasy but not reality, Shearers England team-mates like Ince & Southgate are prepared to cut their teeth at the coal face and whilst both are still young and relatively inxeperienced they still have far better credentials to be Toon boss than Shearer has.

 

If you want a kinda similar example, everybody willed Robbo to be a great Hearts manager (and he at least had some previous experience) however the dream soon crashed into reality and it didn't work out for him and unless Shearer is prepared to get his hands dirty in managing some team and learn the ropes I think he and the Toon fans are setting themselves up for a fall.

[Boris]

the Toon fans are setting themselves up for a fall.

 

Don't they always?

 

I mean Kevin Keegan? Jeez...

 

Then there was their treatment of Sam Allardyce. Their first manager with a decent track record since Sir Bobby Robson, and they never gave him a chance.

 

The insularity of their support (or at least a very vocal minority?) that bangs on about Geordie this and Geordie that...no wonder they are languishing where they are.

[3inaBednar]

"If you want a kinda similar example, everybody willed Robbo to be a great Hearts manager (and he at least had some previous experience) however the dream soon crashed into reality and it didn't work out for him"

 

Personally I hope Robbo returns one day and is a success, long live the king, bring back Robbo!!!!

[stirlo]

The guy has never managed at any level yet he is the toon saviour in waiting....it's a fantasy but not reality, Shearers England team-mates like Ince & Southgate are prepared to cut their teeth at the coal face and whilst both are still young and relatively inxeperienced they still have far better credentials to be Toon boss than Shearer has.

 

If you want a kinda similar example, everybody willed Robbo to be a great Hearts manager (and he at least had some previous experience) however the dream soon crashed into reality and it didn't work out for him and unless Shearer is prepared to get his hands dirty in managing some team and learn the ropes I think he and the Toon fans are setting themselves up for a fall.

 

Spot on. There seems to be this assumption that if and when Shearer is appointed he'll suddenly turn Newcastle into a top 4 team. This is based on sentiment rather than logic. As far as I'm aware, Shearer hardly has experience of managing a pub team, let alone a Premiership one.

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

It was Rob Lee i think that said a couple of weeks ago that Shearer was now serious about getting into management and that he expected him to be at the "toon" sooner rather than later.

[VeraNT]

Obviously the guy was a legend at Newcastle. He broke the world record transfer on signing and averaged a goal every two games over 10 years. A true legend. This is his list of honours and trophy sucesses at Newcastle.

 

1: Nowt

 

Not bad as a track record and it sort of matches his management experience record.

 

1:Nowt

 

So you can see why Newcastle supporters are confident that he will be a guaranteed success at Newcastle.

[shaun.lawson]

The guy has never managed at any level yet he is the toon saviour in waiting....it's a fantasy but not reality, Shearers England team-mates like Ince & Southgate are prepared to cut their teeth at the coal face and whilst both are still young and relatively inxeperienced they still have far better credentials to be Toon boss than Shearer has.

 

If you want a kinda similar example, everybody willed Robbo to be a great Hearts manager (and he at least had some previous experience) however the dream soon crashed into reality and it didn't work out for him and unless Shearer is prepared to get his hands dirty in managing some team and learn the ropes I think he and the Toon fans are setting themselves up for a fall.

 

Thing is though Charlie, Southgate started at Middlesbrough. Keane started at Sunderland. Why shouldn't Shearer start at Newcastle? They're hardly in a better state than either of their rivals - quite the opposite, indeed. The way Toon fans deify Shearer completely cracks me up - I think he's arrogant, selfish, moody and played a significant part in stabbing both Gullit and Robson in the back. I also think he became bigger than the club at one point: an intolerable, unsustainable situation.

 

If they were where they were under Sir Bobby, I'd agree with you - but as it is, we may be approaching the perfect moment for him to take the job. Put simply, he'll have nothing to lose - and if they get relegated, he (along with new ownership) could start afresh and inspire the same sort of revival as Keegan (no managerial experience at that point either) did in 1992.

[shaun.lawson]

Don't they always?

 

I mean Kevin Keegan? Jeez...

 

Then there was their treatment of Sam Allardyce. Their first manager with a decent track record since Sir Bobby Robson, and they never gave him a chance.

The insularity of their support (or at least a very vocal minority?) that bangs on about Geordie this and Geordie that...no wonder they are languishing where they are.

 

Sorry Boris, can't agree with that. Much of the insularity you accuse them of is just a stereotype. If they'd ever been properly run, with a manager befitting the size of club they undoubtedly are, their fans would be perfectly happy. As it is, their loyalty is astounding (close to 52,000 fans every home game for a team that's been **** for years and won nowt since 1969? Name me anywhere else in world football such a thing can be said); and the fans didn't really turn on Allardyce anyway.

 

I had the misfortune of watching Big Sam's final game in charge there: a 0-0 draw at Stoke, which to quote Richard Gordon, made my eyes bleed. And worse, that sort of display (0-0 or a nicked 1-0) was what Allardyce set out to do in every single game! Nullify, nullify, nullify: that's his watchword. Why hasn't anyone else snapped him up since? Would any other big club appoint him in the first place? If you're paying good money to watch an underachieving club, the very least you deserve is decent football - but Allardyce was the antithesis of it, and taking them precisely nowhere.

[Boris]

Sorry Boris, can't agree with that. Much of the insularity you accuse them of is just a stereotype.

well i did ask if it it is a vocal minority. Or the Cockney Mafia banners, which seem to back me up. However I have a mate who lives in Newcastle and his mates all go and don't buy into that "Geordie Nationalist/Parochial" mindset.

 

If they'd ever been properly run, with a manager befitting the size of club they undoubtedly are, their fans would be perfectly happy. As it is, their loyalty is astounding (close to 52,000 fans every home game for a team that's been **** for years and won nowt since 1969? Name me anywhere else in world football such a thing can be said); and the fans didn't really turn on Allardyce anyway.

 

Apart from that guy villifying him - you know the one. MotD seemed to play that clip constantly.

 

I had the misfortune of watching Big Sam's final game in charge there: a 0-0 draw at Stoke, which to quote Richard Gordon, made my eyes bleed. And worse, that sort of display (0-0 or a nicked 1-0) was what Allardyce set out to do in every single game! Nullify, nullify, nullify: that's his watchword. Why hasn't anyone else snapped him up since? Would any other big club appoint him in the first place? If you're paying good money to watch an underachieving club, the very least you deserve is decent football - but Allardyce was the antithesis of it, and taking them precisely nowhere.

 

So Newcastle are another of these teams where "flair" is the way?

 

Roeder gave them that right enough...

 

I think my point is that as a club which thinks itself as one of the "big boys", you are correct to mention their fanatical support, they have, Robson aside, failed to appoint a manager or buy players consistant with their fans aspirations/delusions. Shearer may tick boxes as a local lad but as we saw with "The Messiah's" return, he wasn't go to take them very far.

[iainmac]

Sorry Boris, can't agree with that. Much of the insularity you accuse them of is just a stereotype. If they'd ever been properly run, with a manager befitting the size of club they undoubtedly are, their fans would be perfectly happy. As it is, their loyalty is astounding (close to 52,000 fans every home game for a team that's been **** for years and won nowt since 1969? Name me anywhere else in world football such a thing can be said); and the fans didn't really turn on Allardyce anyway.

 

I had the misfortune of watching Big Sam's final game in charge there: a 0-0 draw at Stoke, which to quote Richard Gordon, made my eyes bleed. And worse, that sort of display (0-0 or a nicked 1-0) was what Allardyce set out to do in every single game! Nullify, nullify, nullify: that's his watchword. Why hasn't anyone else snapped him up since? Would any other big club appoint him in the first place? If you're paying good money to watch an underachieving club, the very least you deserve is decent football - but Allardyce was the antithesis of it, and taking them precisely nowhere.

 

Sean, there was less than 45K at at the Aston Villa game and attendances have been on the wane since Keegan departed. I don't know where you get your info from but the Toon fans never wanted Souness and were determined to give Allardyce even less of a chance.

 

I live and work amongst the Geordies - they wanted Allardyce out alright.

[Charlie-Brown]

Thing is though Charlie, Southgate started at Middlesbrough. Keane started at Sunderland. Why shouldn't Shearer start at Newcastle? They're hardly in a better state than either of their rivals - quite the opposite, indeed. The way Toon fans deify Shearer completely cracks me up - I think he's arrogant, selfish, moody and played a significant part in stabbing both Gullit and Robson in the back. I also think he became bigger than the club at one point: an intolerable, unsustainable situation.

 

If they were where they were under Sir Bobby, I'd agree with you - but as it is, we may be approaching the perfect moment for him to take the job. Put simply, he'll have nothing to lose - and if they get relegated, he (along with new ownership) could start afresh and inspire the same sort of revival as Keegan (no managerial experience at that point either) did in 1992.

 

Without wanting to sound too much like (the reindeer guy) Shearer is a certainty to fail, being a pundit and popular player is not the same as being a manager, nevermind a Premiership manager with all the ego's and massively inflated salaries that take it beyond normal football management pressures.....it might happen one day but it will be like watching a train wreck in full view of the media....unless of course he surprises us all and he's the new Fergie .... but i doubt it ........Newcastle need a root & branch re-assesment of who they are, what they are, how can they define themselves and challenge (or at least compete) in the upper half of the table in the 21st century - they need to get back to basics.

[VeraNT]

It will never be the perfect moment for Shearer to take the job - all that faces him is failure. If he ever ends up in the hot seat, it will because he has been manipulated into a corner and he has no choice.

I find the whole thing hilarious. It probably suits a lot of the support to be thinking "yes, we can be great". If Newcastle ever start to waken up, then they will have to start facing top of the table mind games. I can't see Shearer coping with mid-table mind games.

I can just see Shearers neck, popping out his tight collar as Sir Alex starts the incesant sniping.

 

The guy should ****, or get off the pot.

[shaun.lawson]

well i did ask if it it is a vocal minority. Or the Cockney Mafia banners, which seem to back me up. However I have a mate who lives in Newcastle and his mates all go and don't buy into that "Geordie Nationalist/Parochial" mindset.

 

 

 

Apart from that guy villifying him - you know the one. MotD seemed to play that clip constantly.

 

 

 

So Newcastle are another of these teams where "flair" is the way?

 

Roeder gave them that right enough...

 

I think my point is that as a club which thinks itself as one of the "big boys", you are correct to mention their fanatical support, they have, Robson aside, failed to appoint a manager or buy players consistant with their fans aspirations/delusions. Shearer may tick boxes as a local lad but as we saw with "The Messiah's" return, he wasn't go to take them very far.

 

There are unique characteristics there, certainly. One club city, absurdly loyal fanbase, and a desire for hero worship which always makes me smile. Plus, it meant many of them held off criticising Shepherd because "he always backed his managers"; but he also took millions out of the club, undermined SBR, and had no long term strategy at all: preferring glamourous, trophy signings which got them nowhere. Even Robson, my favourite ever individual in football, was culpable: he spunked ?70m, and never looked like sorting out their defence, even when they finished 3rd.

 

The Cockney mafia banner was just foolish and misguided - but made against a man who has lost all interest in the club, run them from London and made a monumental pig's ear of it. If Freddy Shepherd was the English Chris Robinson, Mike Ashley is the English Vladimir Romanov - and like us, they've been ridiculously unlucky in the owners they've had. Keegan, by the way, was gradually improving them: not working miracles (he needed money for that, as would anyone), but losing him the way they did was pathetic.

 

As for the 'flair' thing - there's a whole host of clubs with a tradition of playing in a certain way. Newcastle's is direct, physical, entertaining and above all, very 'English'. Spurs' style is more open, ground-based and 'Dutch' (as is Arsenal's now - but many of their older fans would prefer something tighter and more regimented, not without some justice); Chelsea have had what I'd call an 'Italian', slow slow quick-quick slow style for well over a decade; Liverpool's version of pass and move is also quite slow, as was Forest's under Cloughie; and then there are other clubs like West Ham, Ipswich and Norwich, who also traditionally play very quick, open and can't defend for toffee.

 

Pretty much every club have unique characteristics - and if a manager or team doesn't 'fit' them and doesn't get results either, trouble naturally follows. Man Utd fans started to turn against Fergie about three or four years ago - not because they weren't winning anything, but because the football was crap! "4-4-2!", they chanted away to Fulham - and even Sir got the message. Man Utd have essentially had two golden eras, and been average much of the rest of the time: but they've always tried to be entertaining.

[shaun.lawson]

Sean, there was less than 45K at at the Aston Villa game and attendances have been on the wane since Keegan departed. I don't know where you get your info from but the Toon fans never wanted Souness and were determined to give Allardyce even less of a chance.

 

I live and work amongst the Geordies - they wanted Allardyce out alright.

 

Yes, attendances have been on the wane - because NUFC are presently rudderless. Even then, the gates are still remarkable. Toon fans were damn right to never want Souness: the man's a disaster, and more responsible than any other manager for where they are now IMO (?50m spent - on what?). And no, they didn't want Allardyce - but where were the protests? Where were the cries of "Allardyce out"? There weren't many, to say the least.

 

I get my info from:

 

http://www.notbbc.co.uk/forums/f=unufc

 

It's an excellent forum, chock full of bright, thoughtful posters. Macbeth hails from there too.

[shaun.lawson]

It will never be the perfect moment for Shearer to take the job - all that faces him is failure. If he ever ends up in the hot seat, it will because he has been manipulated into a corner and he has no choice.

I find the whole thing hilarious. It probably suits a lot of the support to be thinking "yes, we can be great". If Newcastle ever start to waken up, then they will have to start facing top of the table mind games. I can't see Shearer coping with mid-table mind games.

I can just see Shearers neck, popping out his tight collar as Sir Alex starts the incesant sniping.

 

The guy should ****, or get off the pot.

 

Out of interest Davy, do you think Newcastle are a big club? I certainly do, and make them 5th biggest in England. But if you or others don't, did you think Hearts were (purely in Scottish terms) a big club under Alex MacDonald, or JJ prior to 16/5/98?

[shaun.lawson]

Without wanting to sound too much like (the reindeer guy) Shearer is a certainty to fail, being a pundit and popular player is not the same as being a manager, nevermind a Premiership manager with all the ego's and massively inflated salaries that take it beyond normal football management pressures.....it might happen one day but it will be like watching a train wreck in full view of the media....unless of course he surprises us all and he's the new Fergie .... but i doubt it ........Newcastle need a root & branch re-assesment of who they are, what they are, how can they define themselves and challenge (or at least compete) in the upper half of the table in the 21st century - they need to get back to basics.

 

He might very well fail; most Newcastle managers do, after all. And I absolutely agree they need a root and branch reassessment: that's why relegation, if it happens, might not be such a bad thing in their case - provided they bounce straight back up, of course. And if he was joining a Championship club, I think many of the questions over Shearer's inexperience won't be even half as relevant: it'd be no different to what Roy Keane did at Sunderland.

[marshallschunkychicken]

I'm a Newcastle fan, and to be honest I've never felt that he was going to stop playing and become some managerial messiah, and I seriously don't think he ever will be close to being a success if he does eventually take the job.

 

As an aside, the last guy to lift the Newcastle holy grail, the FA Cup, was my great uncle, Jimmy Scoular.

[VeraNT]

Out of interest Davy, do you think Newcastle are a big club? I certainly do, and make them 5th biggest in England. But if you or others don't, did you think Hearts were (purely in Scottish terms) a big club under Alex MacDonald, or JJ prior to 16/5/98?

 

Newcastle are certainly a big club in England - along with the top four you have to include about another six.

 

Hearts have always been either a big club or a sleeping giant. Always in third place after the OF, but always capable of wakening up and winning trophies. Seven, to make me remember the first ten years I spent on this planet. A couple since then, not a big haul, but several near misses.

 

If Mad-vlad had not wrecked the joint with his megalomania, we could even have been a big club with three or four trophies in the bag during the last four years.

 

But that is taking us away from the subject of this thread - the lurking shadow of Shearer and how that has negatively impaccted a big (a huge) club for many years. Its weird to think that the shadow cast by his success (which includes winning **** all at Newcastle) continues to haunt anyone who has tried to get Newcastle on track.

[shaun.lawson]

Newcastle are certainly a big club in England - along with the top four you have to include about another six.

 

Hearts have always been either a big club or a sleeping giant. Always in third place after the OF, but always capable of wakening up and winning trophies. Seven, to make me remember the first ten years I spent on this planet. A couple since then, not a big haul, but several near misses.

 

If Mad-vlad had not wrecked the joint with his megalomania, we could even have been a big club with three or four trophies in the bag during the last four years.

 

But that is taking us away from the subject of this thread - the lurking shadow of Shearer and how that has negatively impaccted a big (a huge) club for many years. Its weird to think that the shadow cast by his success (which includes winning **** all at Newcastle) continues to haunt anyone who has tried to get Newcastle on track.

 

I agree. As well as the Big Four in England, there's also Newcastle, Spurs, Villa, Everton, Man City and (when they eventually get back up) Leeds. And yes, the shadow Shearer casts is remarkable, and seriously less than ideal - but the only way it'll ever be removed is if they finally give him the job, and the Geordies can see what he's about.

[JamboAl]

Sean, there was less than 45K at at the Aston Villa game and attendances have been on the wane since Keegan departed. I don't know where you get your info from but the Toon fans never wanted Souness and were determined to give Allardyce even less of a chance.

 

I live and work amongst the Geordies - they wanted Allardyce out alright.[/QUOTE]

 

They didn't even want him in! There is a certain insularity about Newcastle and only today I received a phone call from abroad, from a reliable source and in reliable circumstances if that makes sense, that Shearer WILL be the manager soon and Rob Lee will be his assistant. John Carver (Bobby Robson's ex-assistant) will be back from Toronto as 1st team coach and it's goodbye to Dennis Wise. What is not clear is whether all this depends on a take-over or whether the take-over is all but signed sealed and awaiting delivery.

What p*sses me off with Toon fans is that they claim they are the greatest fans in the world, yet they don't bother to turn up when the tide is against them.

[Charlie-Brown]

Newcastle's biggest mistake in the last 5 years was not getting Martin O'Neill from Celtic....but they've already missed that boat...the guy that brings their next upswing will be some nothing to lose but determined to prove himself football manager but not Alan Shearer unless he gets lucky as I already said........it would be a good job for Levein if toon were in the championship and he could build them up from scratch...i don't think existing toon (premiership) players would accept him though he'd have to build up his own team.

[shaun.lawson]

Sean' date=' there was less than 45K at at the Aston Villa game and attendances have been on the wane since Keegan departed. I don't know where you get your info from but the Toon fans never wanted Souness and were determined to give Allardyce even less of a chance.

 

[b']I live and work amongst the Geordies - they wanted Allardyce out alright.[/[/b]QUOTE]

 

They didn't even want him in! There is a certain insularity about Newcastle and only today I received a phone call from abroad, from a reliable source and in reliable circumstances if that makes sense, that Shearer WILL be the manager soon and Rob Lee will be his assistant. John Carver (Bobby Robson's ex-assistant) will be back from Toronto as 1st team coach and it's goodbye to Dennis Wise. What is not clear is whether all this depends on a take-over or whether the take-over is all but signed sealed and awaiting delivery.

What p*sses me off with Toon fans is that they claim they are the greatest fans in the world, yet they don't bother to turn up when the tide is against them.

 

Claptrap. 45K for a team in or around the bottom three? 50,000 upwards prior to this season for a team with more bottom half finishes than top half ones in the EPL era - one which has actually been kinder to them than the many decades prior? Newcastle have finished in the top 3 on, get this, four measly occasions since 1927. Their gates are extraordinary.

[iainmac]

Yes, attendances have been on the wane - because NUFC are presently rudderless. Even then, the gates are still remarkable. Toon fans were damn right to never want Souness: the man's a disaster, and more responsible than any other manager for where they are now IMO (?50m spent - on what?). And no, they didn't want Allardyce - but where were the protests? Where were the cries of "Allardyce out"? There weren't many, to say the least.

 

I get my info from:

 

http://www.notbbc.co.uk/forums/f=unufc

 

It's an excellent forum, chock full of bright, thoughtful posters. Macbeth hails from there too.

 

Oh well, as long as your not getting it from talking to Toon fans in the Newcastle area, I'll bow to your greater knowledge. Where are the protests to get rid of Vlad?? There are plenty of folk that talk about it on an internet forum but you must be careful that your view of reality doesn't become distorted by what's posted on a forum.

 

The Toon fans I know - plenty of them - thought they were dying a slow death watching Allardyce's teams and not one of them shed a tear when he got the bullet.

[shaun.lawson]

Newcastle's biggest mistake in the last 5 years was not getting Martin O'Neill from Celtic....but they've already missed that boat...the guy that brings their next upswing will be some nothing to lose but determined to prove himself football manager but not Alan Shearer unless he gets lucky as I already said........it would be a good job for Levein if toon were in the championship and he could build them up from scratch...i don't think existing toon (premiership) players would accept him though he'd have to build up his own team.

 

MON turned them down, CB. Didn't want to work under Shepherd (and damn right too!), and wanted to live somewhere near his sick wife: so Villa was perfect for him. I think their biggest mistake was how they handled Robson's exit (he should've been moved upstairs in the summer), and even more, getting the appalling Souness in as his successor. They were still a big draw back then: Ottmar Hitzfeld applied for the job, yet Shepherd didn't even entertain it!

[shaun.lawson]

Oh well, as long as your not getting it from talking to Toon fans in the Newcastle area, I'll bow to your greater knowledge. Where are the protests to get rid of Vlad?? There are plenty of folk that talk about it on an internet forum but you must be careful that your view of reality doesn't become distorted by what's posted on a forum.

 

The Toon fans I know - plenty of them - thought they were dying a slow death watching Allardyce's teams and not one of them shed a tear when he got the bullet.

 

No, they didn't shed a tear - but most weren't actively calling for his head! If Vlad was bought out, I doubt many would shed a tear either - but equally, most aren't actively calling for his head either.

 

And there's tons of Newcastle-based Mags on that forum. What they don't go in for is the lousy unthinking populism* which characterises many football fans; meaning almost to a man on there, they wanted Shepherd out despite much of the fanbase doing nothing; and they also both asked many tough questions of KK's appointment, and are sceptical of the logic of appointing Shearer.

 

* The kind of thing which leads to TV picking out loud idiots to interview: something that happened there when Allardyce left, and also here. Remember those muppets outside Tynie when Rix was appointed?

[Genghis Khan]

No, they didn't shed a tear - but most weren't actively calling for his head! If Vlad was bought out, I doubt many would shed a tear either - but equally, most aren't actively calling for his head either.

 

And there's tons of Newcastle-based Mags on that forum. What they don't go in for is the lousy unthinking populism* which characterises many football fans; meaning almost to a man on there, they wanted Shepherd out despite much of the fanbase doing nothing; and they also both asked many tough questions of KK's appointment, and are sceptical of the logic of appointing Shearer.

 

* The kind of thing which leads to TV picking out loud idiots to interview: something that happened there when Allardyce left, and also here. Remember those muppets outside Tynie when Rix was appointed?

 

Going by your logic then, no cries of "Allardyce out" = no-one actively calling for his head. So, have you heard any cries of "Vlad out" recently, other than in cyber-space?

 

So, presumably all is well in the world?

[shaun.lawson]

Going by your logic then, no cries of "Allardyce out" = no-one actively calling for his head. So, have you heard ant cries of "Vlad out" recently, other than in cyber-space?

 

So, presumably all is well in the world?

 

Nope. All is dissatisfied and apathetic with the world. Both men, indeed, inspire such a reaction - but as long as there's no alternative...

[iainmac]

No, they didn't shed a tear - but most weren't actively calling for his head! If Vlad was bought out, I doubt many would shed a tear either - but equally, most aren't actively calling for his head either.

 

And there's tons of Newcastle-based Mags on that forum. What they don't go in for is the lousy unthinking populism* which characterises many football fans; meaning almost to a man on there, they wanted Shepherd out despite much of the fanbase doing nothing; and they also both asked many tough questions of KK's appointment, and are sceptical of the logic of appointing Shearer.

 

* The kind of thing which leads to TV picking out loud idiots to interview: something that happened there when Allardyce left, and also here. Remember those muppets outside Tynie when Rix was appointed?

 

Not sure why you're bringing the extremists views into this - we all have them and they make 'good tv' as far as the reporters are concerned. I stand by what I said, the Toon fans that I drink with didn't want Sam in and they couldn't wait to get him out, irrespective of whether they protested or not.

 

I'm sure there are a few hobos that want Mixu gone but they're not protesting either.

[Charlie-Brown]

Newcastle are too busy looking at Chelsea & Tottenham & Liverpool etc to even look in the mirror and ask the necessary questions of themselves, until they find their own identity that matches the reality of what's achievable within normal limitations then very few managers will ever be successful at toon because fundamentally their ambiton exceeds their capability to deliver............as Burns famously wrote what could be the Toon club motto....

 

Oh wad some power the giftie gie us

To see oursel’s as others see us!

It wad frae monie a blunder free us,

And foolish notion.

[shaun.lawson]

Not sure why you're bringing the extremists views into this - we all have them and they make 'good tv' as far as the reporters are concerned. I stand by what I said, the Toon fans that I drink with didn't want Sam in and they couldn't wait to get him out, irrespective of whether they protested or not.

 

I'm sure there are a few hobos that want Mixu gone but they're not protesting either.

 

I think a lot of hobos want Mixu out - but they haven't turned on him. I'm bringing the extremists' views into it because, in the case of Newcastle, many people base their opinions of the club on them: on cliches and stereotypes. Not you; but many others (you know: the kind of people who insist they're not a big club and their fans are deluded, then phone into Five Live debates given over to NUFC as the top news story that day!).

[shaun.lawson]

Newcastle are too busy looking at Chelsea & Tottenham & Liverpool etc to even look in the mirror and ask the necessary questions of themselves, until they find their own identity that matches the reality of what's achievable within normal limitations then very few managers will ever be successful at toon because fundamentally their ambiton exceeds their capability to deliver............as Burns famously wrote what could be the Toon club motto....

 

Oh wad some power the giftie gie us

To see oursel?s as others see us!

It wad frae monie a blunder free us,

And foolish notion.

 

Very, very briefly, Ashley seemed to have grasped this. Newcastle need to follow a long-term model based on youth, eg. the Arsenal model. But he gave Allardyce and Keegan pathetically little to spend - then blew it all, and threw his toys out the pram when Toon fans rightly turned on him.

[JamboAl]

 

Claptrap. 45K for a team in or around the bottom three? 50' date='000 upwards prior to this season for a team with more bottom half finishes than top half ones in the EPL era - one which has actually been kinder to them than the many decades prior? Newcastle have finished in the top 3 on, get this, four measly occasions since 1927. Their gates are extraordinary.[/quote']

 

I'm sorry, it's not claptrap. 45,000 is a great attendance if you're used to less than that but for a team who claim to be one of the biggest in England AND who are a one team city, it's a fair bit below capacity. I used to go and watch them every home game in the 70's and have stood in crowds of 7000 and 9000 against the likes of QPR and Norwich. Before that they used to get (standing) crowds of over 60,000 and only the Keegan/Hall revolution in the 90's brought the crowds back when they believed they had a chance of the League etc. The real problem with Toon fans is impatience. They so desperately want to win something that good managers don't get a fair crack of the whip. Just imagine how we would feel if we ever had the pick of Bobby Robson, Kenny Dalglish, Ruud Gullit, Kevin Keegan, Graeme Souness et al. All failures at Newcastle.

[iainmac]

I think a lot of hobos want Mixu out - but they haven't turned on him. I'm bringing the extremists' views into it because, in the case of Newcastle, many people base their opinions of the club on them: on cliches and stereotypes. Not you; but many others (you know: the kind of people who insist they're not a big club and their fans are deluded, then phone into Five Live debates given over to NUFC as the top news story that day!).

 

They are a big club and they probably have as many deluded fans as the next team. The problem is their lack of success - maybe the Toon fans don't expect them to be winning the EPL every year but they (rightly) expect a lot better than they've been getting since Bobby Moncur lifted the Fairs Cup in 1969.

[shaun.lawson]

 

I'm sorry, it's not claptrap. 45,000 is a great attendance if you're used to less than that but for a team who claim to be one of the biggest in England AND who are a one team city, it's a fair bit below capacity. I used to go and watch them every home game in the 70's and have stood in crowds of 7000 and 9000 against the likes of QPR and Norwich. Before that they used to get (standing) crowds of over 60,000 and only the Keegan/Hall revolution in the 90's brought the crowds back when they believed they had a chance of the League etc. The real problem with Toon fans is impatience. They so desperately want to win something that good managers don't get a fair crack of the whip. Just imagine how we would feel if we ever had the pick of Bobby Robson, Kenny Dalglish, Ruud Gullit, Kevin Keegan, Graeme Souness et al. All failures at Newcastle.

 

Sorry, I still don't agree. If they really were impatient, how can gates have remained so high for so long, in the face of them winning nothing? I agree about the 70s and 80s - but the club was run incredibly incompetently back then, by people with no ambition whatever, and no sense of how it could be grown. John Hall revolutionised the place; and since then, and especially under Dalglish, Gullit, Souness, Roeder and Allardyce, I can't get my head around how big gates have been.

 

They're finally declining now - but that's mainly because the owner self-evidently couldn't give a toss. I also disagree that either Keegan or Robson failed, by the way: the biggest problem is how Shepherd and Ashley have handled things since the latter's exit (the former taking them ?100m in debt and to the verge of administration; the latter to a fully fledged relegation battle and Joe Kinnear).

[Toxteth O'Grady]

The guy has never managed at any level yet he is the toon saviour in waiting....it's a fantasy but not reality, Shearers England team-mates like Ince & Southgate are prepared to cut their teeth at the coal face and whilst both are still young and relatively inxeperienced they still have far better credentials to be Toon boss than Shearer has.

 

If you want a kinda similar example, everybody willed Robbo to be a great Hearts manager (and he at least had some previous experience) however the dream soon crashed into reality and it didn't work out for him and unless Shearer is prepared to get his hands dirty in managing some team and learn the ropes I think he and the Toon fans are setting themselves up for a fall.

 

John Barnes

[shaun.lawson]

They are a big club and they probably have as many deluded fans as the next team. The problem is their lack of success - maybe the Toon fans don't expect them to be winning the EPL every year but they (rightly) expect a lot better than they've been getting since Bobby Moncur lifted the Fairs Cup in 1969.

 

Amen!

[JamboAl]

Very, very briefly, Ashley seemed to have grasped this. Newcastle need to follow a long-term model based on youth, eg. the Arsenal model. But he gave Allardyce and Keegan pathetically little to spend - then blew it all, and threw his toys out the pram when Toon fans rightly turned on him.

 

I think you are wrong again. I am definitely not a Keegan fan but Ashley brought him in and soon thereafter saddled him, without consultation or agreement, with Wise and Jimenez(?) from Real Madrid. I do agree the football manager's job is too much for one man but at least Keegan should have been consulted, and should have been comfortable with, the people appointed to assist him. That's why he threw his toys out of the pram - not to mention players being signed without his knowledge or Milner being sold against his wishes, as a result of these appointments.

[Charlie-Brown]

Newcastle are/have been a perfect example of everything that is wrong with modern football including fans attitudes and the preferred solutions, Leeds Utd were also a similar example although they have re-invented themselves and rediscovered their roots and strength even if it's taken a helluva downturn to achieve this, but tall oaks from acorns grow and all that.

[Charlie-Brown]

I don't understand the hostility toward ashley when he wanted to run the club in a more sustainable fashion compared to shepherd & the halls, he might have lost heart since all the cockney's out nonsense but for my book ashley should have toughed it out and won the fans over because fundamentally he was/is right ... however many of the toon army just want a sugar daddy / rich owners who will bludgeon their way to a trophy, any trophy except that Chelski and now Man City ALREADY exist as well as perenially stronger clubs like Man Utd, Arsenal & Liverpool etc

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Newcastle are/have been a perfect example of everything that is wrong with modern football including fans attitudes and the preferred solutions, Leeds Utd were also a similar example although they have re-invented themselves and rediscovered their roots and strength even if it's taken a helluva downturn to achieve this, but tall oaks from acorns grow and all that.

 

You like a wee moan at the fans, don't you Charlie!

 

I don't agree with that at all, in reality the fans can expect as much as they want but they don't control the money.

 

Nothing wrong with high expectations ... it can spur a team on and help them fight above their level.

 

It's the ***** fat cats who run the club you have to watch.

[JamboAl]

Newcastle are/have been a perfect example of everything that is wrong with modern football including fans attitudes and the preferred solutions, Leeds Utd were also a similar example although they have re-invented themselves and rediscovered their roots and strength even if it's taken a helluva downturn to achieve this, but tall oaks from acorns grow and all that.

 

You're right re Leeds. They had George Graham whose philosophy was to build out from the back but that's boring and takes time so he had to go. Let's hope we don't make the same mistake. They too had a good crop of youngsters at the time.

[shaun.lawson]

I think you are wrong again. I am definitely not a Keegan fan but Ashley brought him in and soon thereafter saddled him, without consultation or agreement, with Wise and Jimenez(?) from Real Madrid. I do agree the football manager's job is too much for one man but at least Keegan should have been consulted, and should have been comfortable with, the people appointed to assist him. That's why he threw his toys out of the pram - not to mention players being signed without his knowledge or Milner being sold against his wishes, as a result of these appointments.

 

I agree with you. All I meant was at first, I felt Ashley understood the necessity of building things gradually from bottom up - but the way he went about it and the appointments he made were just ludicrous.

 

I can't recall you criticising Vlad when he did something very similar here, though?

[Ben Dover]

Shearer appears to be getting coached by Hanson to spout the usual pash on MOTD, stuff like "one goes short ....one goes long"

He was simply a player with a 'knack' for scoring goals. He is not the messiah and, IMO, if he has any sense - he will do his best to dance round any offers of that job, lest it drag him down with it.

[JamboAl]

I agree with you. All I meant was at first, I felt Ashley understood the necessity of building things gradually from bottom up - but the way he went about it and the appointments he made were just ludicrous.

 

I can't recall you criticising Vlad when he did something very similar here, though?

 

Maybe because I didn't since there are differences. Firstly when Burley was appointed he brought with him his own assistants (Hunt and Webster) and secondly VR already had his own scouting system that was part of the baggage he brought with him unlike Ashley who started from scratch. The situation we were in then was one of "beggars can't be choosers" and although there have been decent signings from his empire I do recognise the validity of having one hand on the tiller.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

[/b]

 

Maybe because I didn't since there are differences. Firstly when Burley was appointed he brought with him his own assistants (Hunt and Webster) and secondly VR already had his own scouting system that was part of the baggage he brought with him unlike Ashley who started from scratch. The situation we were in then was one of "beggars can't be choosers" and although there have been decent signings from his empire I do recognise the validity of having one hand on the tiller.

 

What is this scouting system you talk of? Vlad going to games and deciding to spend 750k on Beslija isn't a scouting system. Pedro Lopez printing off players names from Yahoo Sport isn't a scouting system.

[Spellczech]

[/b]

 

Maybe because I didn't since there are differences. Firstly when Burley was appointed he brought with him his own assistants (Hunt and Webster) and secondly VR already had his own scouting system that was part of the baggage he brought with him unlike Ashley who started from scratch. The situation we were in then was one of "beggars can't be choosers" and although there have been decent signings from his empire I do recognise the validity of having one hand on the tiller.

 

Newcastle is a total poisoned chalice. They cannot attract genuine talent on the way up, but instead have to take people who are past their best. Robson was past his best when he went there. Allerdyce, like Curbishly is a manager suited to avoiding relegation rather than pushing for trophies. Redknapp used to be considered the same but he then won the FA Cup with Portsmouth and only then did Tottenham, a similar club to Newcastle go for him. Redknapp refused Newcastle - telling? I think so...

 

Souness, Gullit, Barnes had all been sacked from previous clubs. Roeder was total left-field. Dalglish was just a strange guy. He left both Liverpool and Blackburn after success but in a strange perhaps burnt out manner.