HONDA SWINDON FACTORY.

[Miller Jambo 60]

Honda to close their Swindon factory for 2 months come the New year.

5000 workers wont be paid.

Is this legal.

Will clown Brown get involved.

Discuss.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

yes its legal

and what would you prefer? they stay open, then go bust/close it down and there permanently out of a job ?

[Walter Kidd]

Good thinking by Honda Doug. Means that they are hoping to ride out the downturn while not forcing the value of their cars down by over producing.

 

I am sure the staff would rather not being paid for a couple of months than facing years on the dole.

[Dr. Bapswent]

Good thinking by Honda Doug. Means that they are hoping to ride out the downturn while not forcing the value of their cars down by over producing.

 

I am sure the staff would rather not being paid for a couple of months than facing years on the dole.

 

Yes of course, but think about it, they are kinda being held to ransom.

 

Imagine your employer said , 2 months without pay.

 

What would you do?

 

Leave - not a great option currently.

 

Its not exactly going to be easy to find work to fill a 2 month gap either.

 

They are kind of over a barrel with regards having to accept it without much option.

 

Harsh.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

Yes of course, but think about it, they are kinda being held to ransom.

 

Imagine your employer said , 2 months without pay.

 

What would you do?

 

Leave - not a great option currently.

 

Its not exactly going to be easy to find work to fill a 2 month gap either.

 

They are kind of over a barrel with regards having to accept it without much option.

 

Harsh.

 

 

Obviously its not idea but Honda could have just decided to close it altogether.

 

Which do you think is worse?

[Walter Kidd]

Dr B. Ransom possibly, however needs must I'm afraid.

[Miller Jambo 60]

yes its legal

and what would you prefer? they stay open, then go bust/close it down and there permanently out of a job ?

 

Fair enough Prancer put that way sounds sensible.

Its a pity more companies did not go down this road.

[Dr. Bapswent]

Dr B. Ransom possibly, however needs must I'm afraid.

 

Yep, I know.

 

I just can understand how the workers must be feeling rough as they have the choice of turd 1 or turd 2.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

I think a lot of smaller manufacturing companies are, Honda are the first big name I've seen do it but wouldnt surprise me too see others follow suit.

 

A lot of places close for a few weeks at Xmas but it seems this has just been extended for a while this year.

 

Sadly these sort of industries are the first to be affected by job cuts. Its not somewere to go for a stable job

[Super T]

Fair enough Prancer put that way sounds sensible.

Its a pity more companies did not go down this road.

 

So what do the workers do for money in the intervening months? technically they are still employed so can't claim dole, can't get their income protection to cover mortgages etc..

At least if they closed it down they would get redundancy, far from ideal I know but at least they'd have some income.

[Boris]

These Japanese, coming over here and ruining our jobs...

 

[I P Knightley]

So what do the workers do for money in the intervening months? technically they are still employed so can't claim dole, can't get their income protection to cover mortgages etc..

At least if they closed it down they would get redundancy, far from ideal I know but at least they'd have some income.

 

Do the maths.

 

Redundancy would be, what, 3 month's pay & that's yer lot. You're one of 5000 trying to find yourself a job in an area of the UK that's not brimful of job opportunities at a time when the country is plunging into recession.

 

Alternatively, you're asked to sit tight for two months while your employer manages its inventory and then return to work as per normal (albeit in the circumstances where the company could still find itself having to put you out to grass). TBH, I'm surprised that it would happen without Henry Honda giving the staff a wee bit of pocket money. They're making savings in materials and other overheads during the shut-down.

 

However, there's a signal there and Honda are not tying their employees' hands and saying that they must report back after the two month break. If they find other employment, they're surely entitled to do so.

 

In the circs, I think it's the best way the situation could be handled.

[Super T]

Do the maths.

 

Redundancy would be, what, 3 month's pay & that's yer lot. You're one of 5000 trying to find yourself a job in an area of the UK that's not brimful of job opportunities at a time when the country is plunging into recession.

 

Alternatively, you're asked to sit tight for two months while your employer manages its inventory and then return to work as per normal (albeit in the circumstances where the company could still find itself having to put you out to grass). TBH, I'm surprised that it would happen without Henry Honda giving the staff a wee bit of pocket money. They're making savings in materials and other overheads during the shut-down.

 

However, there's a signal there and Honda are not tying their employees' hands and saying that they must report back after the two month break. If they find other employment, they're surely entitled to do so.

 

In the circs, I think it's the best way the situation could be handled.

 

I don't know the circumstances fully here but are there any guarantees that after the 2 months there will be a job to go back to?

 

I would have thought they would have gone down to part production first e.g 4,3,2 day working weeks. Maybe they already had.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7741269.stm

[Miller Jambo 60]

Do the maths.

 

Redundancy would be, what, 3 month's pay & that's yer lot. You're one of 5000 trying to find yourself a job in an area of the UK that's not brimful of job opportunities at a time when the country is plunging into recession.

 

Alternatively, you're asked to sit tight for two months while your employer manages its inventory and then return to work as per normal (albeit in the circumstances where the company could still find itself having to put you out to grass). TBH, I'm surprised that it would happen without Henry Honda giving the staff a wee bit of pocket money. They're making savings in materials and other overheads during the shut-down.

 

However, there's a signal there and Honda are not tying their employees' hands and saying that they must report back after the two month break. If they find other employment, they're surely entitled to do so.

 

In the circs, I think it's the best way the situation could be handled.

 

Still think Honda are jumping on the economic bandwagon and just trying to help their profits.

Brown should investigate them but that wont happen.

[I P Knightley]

I don't know the circumstances fully here but are there any guarantees that after the 2 months there will be a job to go back to?

 

I would have thought they would have gone down to part production first e.g 4,3,2 day working weeks. Maybe they already had.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7741269.stm

 

The BBC is my only source of info on this and you've seen that it's pretty sketchy. I think with full closure they're able to make more substantial savings on the overheads (e.g. absolute minimal maintenance on machinery vs having to have them run for a few days each week).

 

Much depends on their current unsold inventory as well - if they have fields full of unsold cars & other product, even reduced production rates will be costly in terms of managing stock in and out.

 

 

Still think Honda are jumping on the economic bandwagon and just trying to help their profits.

Brown should investigate them but that wont happen.

 

By helping their profits, they're protecting the future jobs of (a lot of) those 5000 staff.

 

I'm not sure I'd go as far as saying they're 'jumping on a bandwagon.' It's pretty clear that folk are not buying new cars at the rate they were a year or two ago which means that the economic bandwagon has hit Honda at full tilt. They couldn't sustain the production rate from 2-3 years ago.

 

Without full facts, it's hard to judge whether there is a crisis to investigate or not.

 

But if they were to go to the extreme of shutting down the plant, it wouldn't merit an investigation. Henry Honda would just say, "the UK plant is unprofitable and we've had to shut it down" - perfectly legitimately.

[Super T]

yes, by mothballing the plant they are saving a lot of money whilst still maintaining future production capability.

 

You only need to look at the bail out the US companies are looking for to understand that all comapny's in that sector are struggling, even Toyota.

 

However, I still don't think that they are 'safeguarding' the jobs by this approach. It would just prove that if there is no great upturn in the next 6 months to a year then this plant would be surplus.

[frankblack]

I would be surprised if it is legal to tell staff they aren't getting paid for 2 months. I'd have thought that employees would be entitled to choose redundancy instead - or seek damages for constructive dismissal.

 

How are the workers meant to pay for their Mortgages? Will be a fair few house repossessions there I think.

 

In any case - how do 5000 specialist skilled people find work for 2 months that will pay their mortgage?

[Marmeladent?rtchen]

I think the work force will get paid, but a lot of their pay is made up of shift bonuses as well production and quality incentives. Therefore there basic is hee haw and they will lose out.

 

Honda are not the only manufacture that are doing this, just the first in the UK!!!

[dougiea]

They'll continue to be paid their basic wage - a contractual obligation.

 

There will be no shift premiums, bonuses and overtime paid.

 

Minimal heat, light maintenance bills and no deliveries from suppliers during the closure period, that's where the savings come from.

 

After two months, in theory finished goods inventories will have reduced and it's back to normal.

 

Great in theory, sadly more than likely to end in tears in practice!

[Carl Spackler]

Some more info.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/3494840/Honda-to-close-UK-factory-for-two-months.html

[I P Knightley]

They'll continue to be paid their basic wage - a contractual obligation.

 

There will be no shift premiums, bonuses and overtime paid.

 

Minimal heat, light maintenance bills and no deliveries from suppliers during the closure period, that's where the savings come from.

 

After two months, in theory finished goods inventories will have reduced and it's back to normal.

 

Great in theory, sadly more than likely to end in tears in practice!

 

That sounds right.

 

Honda will have the same cash coming in that they'd have had anyway - they're making sales out of inventory.

 

They could afford to pay the staff their basic pay, maybe even a 'hardship' bonus and still be a lot better off by having saved on goods inwards (so the suppliers are hit) and maintenance. After 50 days (& compared to what would have been), cash is up, profits are level/up and we all go along like before.

 

One certainty, though, is that Honda will need to reduce production as they've just proved to themselves that working at their old output levels is not profitable. So there will be losses among the staff. Whether it's headcount or the bonuses etc. remains to be seen but my guess is that it's easier to lose heads than to have everyone accept a reduction in rate of pay.

[Super T]

That sounds right.

 

Honda will have the same cash coming in that they'd have had anyway - they're making sales out of inventory.

 

They could afford to pay the staff their basic pay, maybe even a 'hardship' bonus and still be a lot better off by having saved on goods inwards (so the suppliers are hit) and maintenance. After 50 days (& compared to what would have been), cash is up, profits are level/up and we all go along like before.

 

One certainty, though, is that Honda will need to reduce production as they've just proved to themselves that working at their old output levels is not profitable. So there will be losses among the staff. Whether it's headcount or the bonuses etc. remains to be seen but my guess is that it's easier to lose heads than to have everyone accept a reduction in rate of pay.

 

 

They wont have the same cash coming in as otherwise they wouldn't need to cut production. The problems are as they are failing to shift their current stock.

 

However I'm glad that as stated above the basic pay is honoured, i'm sure that some people will face some financial hardship from losing shift allowances etc but at least they've not taken the full mothball scenario I thought they might have.

[Marmeladent?rtchen]

That sounds right.

 

Honda will have the same cash coming in that they'd have had anyway - they're making sales out of inventory.

 

They could afford to pay the staff their basic pay, maybe even a 'hardship' bonus and still be a lot better off by having saved on goods inwards (so the suppliers are hit) and maintenance. After 50 days (& compared to what would have been), cash is up, profits are level/up and we all go along like before.

 

One certainty, though, is that Honda will need to reduce production as they've just proved to themselves that working at their old output levels is not profitable. So there will be losses among the staff. Whether it's headcount or the bonuses etc. remains to be seen but my guess is that it's easier to lose heads than to have everyone accept a reduction in rate of pay.

 

Also worth pointing out that a lot of the people will be agency workers and not directly employed by Honda.

 

Honda will pay a lot to companys, by the hour, to have them in but will be able to cut them without notice.

[I P Knightley]

They wont have the same cash coming in as otherwise they wouldn't need to cut production. The problems are as they are failing to shift their current stock.

 

 

What I meant was, 'the same cash coming in over those two months with the factory closed as they'd have had if in production.' i.e. closure of the plant will not see a drop in their forecast income which will be sufficient to cover the wages - as confirmed in the Torygraph article.

[Super T]

What I meant was, 'the same cash coming in over those two months with the factory closed as they'd have had if in production.' i.e. closure of the plant will not see a drop in their forecast income which will be sufficient to cover the wages - as confirmed in the Torygraph article.

 

fair enough.

 

On a slight tangent I will be nominating the phrase 'Do the maths' into the most annoying sayings thread.

 

Not being funny, Don't take it the wrong way and no offence intended