d(>_<)b Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Hearts have spent a considerable amount of money and time on this though. Not sure trust comes in to the equation. Pedro Lopez moving on to pastures new for me said the plan was being put on hold (although Im sure he could be replaced) Thing is, If Hearts were pressing on with the plan, pretty sure many posters would not be happy as in the present climate it would be madness. I couldn't agree more. 51 million added to our debt is the last thing we need. Lopez moving-on was an indication to me that things had ground to a halt and his services were no longer needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 what have we seen delivered what was promised when romanov came in? i'll give you remaining at tynecastle, i'll give you winning the scottish cup and i'll give you champions league. but that was 3 years ago! now give me the positives and negatives of the last 3 years in your opinion. Why go to the bother that they have done with the planning submission then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Independence Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 just my opinion mate! do you trust the mad freak? Your statements get more childish with the passage of time!! You are clearly very unhappy with the news that this loan has been paid!!! VR is here for the long term! Get used to it or you are goinng to live a long bitter life!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T.F.Robertson Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 just my opinion mate! do you trust the mad freak? Mickey, give it a rest with the juvenile insults, ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolcross lad Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 just my opinion mate! do you trust the mad freak? More than I trust you mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTBCAL Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 http://www.baltic.omxnordicexchange.com/market/?pg=details&instrument=LT0000102352&list=2&tab=news&news_id=228364 Loan appears to have been paid. Tramps no happy. Any Financiers care to comment. Noticed the thread on Fudz.net has disappeared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Sir Gay has been admitted to the Royal Ed this evening and staff are on suicide watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 There are of course a lot of negatives to set against the major positives you mention (none of which were themselves exactly "promised" IMO). I think the negatives have been covered quite extensively on JKB. But you are getting well off my point that complaining that a failure to deliver the new stand/hotel project in current circumstances is a "broken promise" is somewhat ridiculous. So given that you say there is no chance of it being built in current circumstances, why are HMFC still going along with the charade of pretending we intend to build it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Chat Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 So basiclly he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. If he does build it half of the people on here will complain that its costing too much, and if he doesn't build it the very same people will spontaneously combust with rage about "broken promises" etc etc. Who'd be a football club owner eh ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 So given that you say there is no chance of it being built in current circumstances, why are HMFC still going along with the charade of pretending we intend to build it? How can it be a charade when the ball is in the council's court? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 So basiclly he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. If he does build it half of the people on here will complain that its costing too much, and if he doesn't build it the very same people will spontaneously combust with rage about "broken promises" etc etc. Who'd be a football club owner eh ? Poor Vlad. Must be tough being in such a tough position, through no fault at all of his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 How can it be a charade when the ball is in the council's court? Cause we're going through the motions when apparently, there is no chance of it being built? I'm not the one saying there is no way it is going to happen because of the financial climate mate. If there really is no way it's going to happen "because of financial climate" etc, why bother pretending it's still on the agenda? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 I'm not the one saying there is no way it is going to happen because of the financial climate mate. If there really is no way it's going to happen "because of financial climate" etc, why bother pretending it's still on the agenda? There's a subtle difference. The likelihood of it happening has diminished due to the credit crunch and the fallout from it. However, since this was always a vanity project in any case, I won't say it's dead until Vlad has the final say. And until the planning application is discussed, that possibility remains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Cause we're going through the motions when apparently, there is no chance of it being built? I'm not the one saying there is no way it is going to happen because of the financial climate mate. If there really is no way it's going to happen "because of financial climate" etc, why bother pretending it's still on the agenda? Because, I would think, having spent lots on fees etc, he should continue to secure a Planning Consent, which can be enacted upon in the next 5 years.( and then it effectively expires), in which time hopefully the financial climate improves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 There's a subtle difference. The likelihood of it happening has diminished due to the credit crunch and the fallout from it. Big difference from what is being said above (not by you ). If there is a chance it will go ahead, then lets start answering the councils questions and get on with it. If there's not a chance of it going ahead, then lets cut out the BS and get on with fixing the roof of the main stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footieman Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Cause we're going through the motions when apparently, there is no chance of it being built? I'm not the one saying there is no way it is going to happen because of the financial climate mate. If there really is no way it's going to happen "because of financial climate" etc, why bother pretending it's still on the agenda? Who is pretending? How can the club be expected to talk about their plans when the council hasn't even granted them permission to build the stand yet? As far as I understand it, the clubs last move was to submit the planning application and now its up to the council to approve it. If the council approved the planning application tomorrow then it would be up to the club to decide if they are going to build the new stand next year, or wait until there is an economic upturn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Because, I would think, having spent lots on fees etc, he should continue to secure a Planning Consent, which can be enacted upon in the next 5 years.( and then it effectively expires), in which time hopefully the financial climate improves. Ah, that would explain quite a lot. The longer we delay getting the planning consent, the longer till the 5 years run out......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Who is pretending? How can the club be expected to talk about their plans when the council hasn't even granted them permission to build the stand yet? Our website says we're starting building in the summer, that was the last info they gave out, and they've not bothered to update us otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footieman Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Because, I would think, having spent lots on fees etc, he should continue to secure a Planning Consent, which can be enacted upon in the next 5 years.( and then it effectively expires), in which time hopefully the financial climate improves. Does the planning permission not last for 10 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 So given that you say there is no chance of it being built in current circumstances, why are HMFC still going along with the charade of pretending we intend to build it? As you know perfectly well, because you replied to an earlier post of mine, my argument on this thread is based on the POSSIBILITY it won't be built as planned in current circumstances. I did not say there is no chance of it being built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 As you know perfectly well If I had known that, I wouldn't have asked you the question. You're jumping between excuses for why it's not Vlads fault if the stand isn't build, because building is not possible right now, and the assertion that it still could be built, is confusing to keep track of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambos are go! Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 VR is the only show in town as far as a new stand/associated development is concerned and I believe the Council want the whole development to go ahead. Room for manouvre and all to play for IMO. Gorgie needs the triangle to be developed fully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boabyarsebiscuit Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 VR is the only show in town as far as a new stand/associated development is concerned and I believe the Council want the whole development to go ahead. Room for manouvre and all to play for IMO. Gorgie needs the triangle to be developed fully. We already have the successful pyramid. Will that not do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 You're jumping between excuses for why it's not Vlads fault if the stand isn't build, because building is not possible right now, and the assertion that it still could be built, is confusing to keep track of. Not quite as confusing as your syntax in that sentence. I assume you meant something like: Your jumping between excuses for why it's not Vlad's fault if the stand isn't built and the assertion that it still could be built is confusing to keep track of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Not quite as confusing as your syntax in that sentence. I assume you meant something like: yep, if you put the middle bit back in. the confusing bit, is how both "it's not Vlads fault if it's not built, it's down to it being impossible to build in the current climate" and "but of course it might still be built after all" can both be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 If I had known that, I wouldn't have asked you the question. You're jumping between excuses for why it's not Vlads fault if the stand isn't build, because building is not possible right now, and the assertion that it still could be built, is confusing to keep track of. Only if the word "IF" is a problem for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 yep, if you put the middle bit back in. the confusing bit, is how both "it's not Vlads fault if it's not built, it's down to it being impossible to build in the current climate" and "but of course it might still be built after all" can both be true. Logically speaking, Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Logically speaking, Yes. I was speaking logically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMcD Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Ah, that would explain quite a lot. The longer we delay getting the planning consent, the longer till the 5 years run out......... There is also the obligation to buy the council property if/when consent is given. Does the planning permission not last for 10 years? 5 years for planning, 3 years for a building warrant, though both can normally be extended a bit fairly easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 I was speaking logically. I'm glad to have helped then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 I'm glad to have helped then! you didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jambomickey Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Why go to the bother that they have done with the planning submission then? why go to the bother of giving managers, chief executives and players contracts then sack them and have to pay the contracts up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jambomickey Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Your statements get more childish with the passage of time!! You are clearly very unhappy with the news that this loan has been paid!!! VR is here for the long term! Get used to it or you are goinng to live a long bitter life!!!! your defence of vlad gets more childish no matter what he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jambomickey Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Mickey, give it a rest with the juvenile insults, ffs. i'm insulting somebody who has dragged the great name of heart of midlothian through the gutter and will continue until he is out of our club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jambomickey Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 More than I trust you mate. so you've got vlad tinted glasses on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deejtee Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Is life simpler if all is black and white???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 why go to the bother of giving managers, chief executives and players contracts then sack them and have to pay the contracts up? What's that got to do with the price of anything? Are you suggesting that the stadium plans were just dreamed up as some sort of 'fig leaf' to appease the fans? If so, your antipathy to all things Romanov is blinding you to common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Is life simpler if all is black and white???? Quite a change to go from discussing whether or not the stand will go up to an early episode of "Name that Tune". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deejtee Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Did you miss my point or have I just missed yours? Some people have thousands of posts all saying the same thing. Maybe they should just say "see last 5, 10, or 20 thousand posts" whichever applies until they have something intelligent and insightful to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jambomickey Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 What's that got to do with the price of anything? Are you suggesting that the stadium plans were just dreamed up as some sort of 'fig leaf' to appease the fans? If so, your antipathy to all things Romanov is blinding you to common sense. i don't think the stadium was ever going to be built just like i don't think lots of the crap romanov said was ever going to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 i don't think the stadium was ever going to be built just like i don't think lots of the crap romanov said was ever going to happen So, enlighten me then. What was the spending of '000s of pounds on the planning application all about then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Independence Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 i don't think the stadium was ever going to be built just like i don't think lots of the crap romanov said was ever going to happen You ARE a very bitter man. Why would they pay loads of dosh pushing this appliaction through, buying up other property (nurserey etc) and spend so much time on it? I await your usual 'because VR is ......................' reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jambomickey Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 So, enlighten me then. What was the spending of '000s of pounds on the planning application all about then? putting more money on the debt you mean! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jambomickey Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 You ARE a very bitter man. Why would they pay loads of dosh pushing this appliaction through, buying up other property (nurserey etc) and spend so much time on it? I await your usual 'because VR is ......................' reply. very bitter about vr dragging the great name heart of midlothian through the gutter with his dictatorship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 putting more money on the debt you mean! Who supplied the capital for that debt? Anyway, you would be moaning about another "broken promise" had the project not even gone this far. Talk about having it both ways! Lose the bitterness and form an argument. I'm not defending Vlad, incidentally, but just because you are "anti" Vlad it doesn't mean you have to be "anti" everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jambomickey Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Who supplied the capital for that debt? Anyway, you would be moaning about another "broken promise" had the project not even gone this far. Talk about having it both ways! Lose the bitterness and form an argument. I'm not defending Vlad, incidentally, but just because you are "anti" Vlad it doesn't mean you have to be "anti" everything. geoff phil anderton was sacked and one of the reasons given was he was taking too long to get the stand planning permission now that's nearly 3 years ago! as a shareholder/season ticket holder i've never felt we've had a regime who think there unaccountable to the life blood of the football club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 So, enlighten me then. What was the spending of '000s of pounds on the planning application all about then? This is the worrying thing to me,why? TBH I never believed this would happen and TBH I don't think it will ever happen. Why spend 000,????????? on a development plan,Just to test the water? To find out the real value of the land? can they get away with building almost anything they like(as far as I'm aware all the other building projects Vlad had been involved in were in former soviet states,different rules and that)? Could they get away with demolishing the stadium and then say "erm ,sorry ran out off cash"? Or did Vlad really believe that he could turn HMFC into a world super power in football. To many questions but once again with no real answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Or did Vlad really believe that he could turn HMFC into a world super power in football. /QUOTE] Or he simply believed there was/is potential to redevop the main stand with decent corporate facilities, financed at least in part by the hotel/apartment bit of the project. Sometimes the simplest explanations, that fit best with the known facts, are best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Chat Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 The story I was told was that Ubig would sell the hotel just before it was finished for a sum that would pay for the whole development (stand and hotel) and still leave a tidy profit. Dunno how much truth there was to it but the person who said it used to get some decent info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Or did Vlad really believe that he could turn HMFC into a world super power in football. /QUOTE] Or he simply believed there was/is potential to redevop the main stand with decent corporate facilities' date=' financed at least in part by the hotel/apartment bit of the project. [b']Sometimes the simplest explanations, that fit best with the known facts, are best.[/b] Yep,your correct sometimes the simplest explanations are the bets,but my friend your isn't simple,it's based on what if's and maybe's. If you talking about "speculate to accumulate" then your argument is blown right out the water. What's the best way to get punters in to watch your team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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