Casuals - rose tinted glasses

[wibble]

As a scarfie of many a year I am perplexed by the retro viewpoint of the football casual as some kind of waggish fashionista with a cultured view of all things fashion, football and music.

 

The truth is that the casuals were just the Chavs of their day. The riff raff and dregs of society that the likes of ratboy is now part of.

 

Like the Mods before them, casuals were just wired up speed freaks with a penchant for stealing the most expensive clothes they could find.

 

Most of them are now the burglars, winos and binmen of today.

 

The romantic notion of the casuals fits in with the Hobornian myth factory and the Red Ultras view of themselves as a footballing giant.

[Mr Nobody]

Not so sure about what you say.

 

 

Most of the "casuals" I knew were from decent backgrounds and had decent jobs.

[Jambothump]

Not so sure about what you say.

 

 

Most of the "casuals" I knew were from decent backgrounds and had decent jobs.

 

Rubbish, the majority were as the op says, or alludes to, brainless thugs.

et

[jack D and coke]

Most had jobs but there was real low life amongst them as well. Dirty thievin c**** a lot of them were. Robbin houses and all sorts.

[Guest juvehearts]

Rubbish,

back in the day late 70's early 80's it was a hardcore of 50-100 with scarfers tagging along for the ride & when hell broke loose they'd run faster than linford christie.

 

all these guys had decent jobs & earned a living working as plumbers,painters & decorators, labourers e.c.t.

 

yes there were a few bad boys amoungst the crew but today's 'casuals' are now just neds & jippos, tramps & thievs (sp)

 

at the end of the day we all grow out of it & some of us regret what we did some dont.

 

these aint

[Walter Kidd]

Have a word OP.

[Adi Dassler]

Perhaps if you lived here you would realise how much the original "casuals" have contributed to popular culture in Britain.

 

And The Mods, Skinheads, Suedeheads etc etc before them as well.

 

The arguments FOR are far too long winded to put down here so i suggest you read 'The Soul Stylist's by Paulo Hewitt and 'Casuals' by Phil Thornton as a starting point.

[cosanostra]

There were a few Hibs casuals at my school and they were the ****miest, most violent, most frequently chucked out of school for assaulting teachers / bullying etc subhuman trash I ever met.

 

It was a nightmare just walking past these idiots.

 

All I remember of casuals are a bunch of neds picking on younger kids and painting Hibs Boys CCS (or whatever it was) around the school.

 

Most of them are in jail or are smackheads now.

[this_is_my_story]

Perhaps if you lived here you would realise how much the original "casuals" have contributed to popular culture in Britain.

 

And The Mods, Skinheads, Suedeheads etc etc before them as well.

 

The arguments FOR are far too long winded to put down here so i suggest you read 'The Soul Stylist's by Paulo Hewitt and 'Casuals' by Phil Thornton as a starting point.

 

Agreed. Since it happened, I reckon the casual movement went a long way towards influencing the attitude blokes took towards clothing and fashion. I'm not saying that if it'd never happened, all geezers would be happy to plod about in 'Tesco Value' jeans or whatever, I just think that it definitely played it's part.

[Legend Claws]

I saw jeans in Tesco for ?3 the other day!

[Tynie b]

I saw jeans in Tesco for ?3 the other day!

 

Casual Jeans??

[Legend Claws]

Smart casual I would say. Now there is irony!

[Deek]

Rubbish,

back in the day late 70's early 80's it was a hardcore of 50-100 with scarfers tagging along for the ride & when hell broke loose they'd run faster than linford christie.

 

I dont recall seeing casuals following Hearts until the mid 80's. Correct me if I am wrong though.

[Guest juvehearts]

I dont recall seeing casuals following Hearts until the mid 80's. Correct me if I am wrong though.

 

 

Defo late 70's Deek.

speaking from experiance

[Deek]

Defo late 70's Deek.

speaking from experiance

 

So am I. Aberdeen started the ball rolling in Scotland in about 81. Followed by Motherwell and the Hobo's.

 

Our casuals never started until about 84 or 85 if I recall.

[Tynie b]

So am I. Aberdeen started the ball rolling in Scotland in about 81. Followed by Motherwell and the Hobo's.

 

Our casuals never started until about 84 or 85 if I recall.

 

Correct!!

[eddie fenwick]

As a scarfie of many a year I am perplexed by the retro viewpoint of the football casual as some kind of waggish fashionista with a cultured view of all things fashion, football and music.

 

The truth is that the casuals were just the Chavs of their day. The riff raff and dregs of society that the likes of ratboy is now part of.

 

Like the Mods before them, casuals were just wired up speed freaks with a penchant for stealing the most expensive clothes they could find.

 

Most of them are now the burglars, winos and binmen of today.

 

The romantic notion of the casuals fits in with the Hobornian myth factory and the Red Ultras view of themselves as a footballing giant.

 

what a load of cobblers,i was on the fringes of the casual movement when a teenager,ive never taken speed(or any illegal substance for that matter)ive never stolen anything either,it was a fashion,nothing more nothing less,oh aye and im neither a wino or a binman,i still keep in touch with some lads and theyre good family men whom id trust with my life

[stevie]

While some of them were a bit handy i found most casuals to be sad little whimps who trawled about mob handed picking on small groups of innocent folk and then taking turns each to jump on thier heads.

[wibble]

So there you go .....

 

 

Everyone who was one thinks they were salt of the earth trendsetters.

 

 

and everyone who encountered them thought they were a bunch of white trash chavs with behaviour problems.

 

 

 

I wonder who's wearing rose tinted glasses.

 

 

... and Adi Dassler .... The influence on pop culture, I will agree, has been massive, but the pop culture of Britain is now at an all time low. The casual movement has led to the chav nation where clothing brands have more kudos than artisitic skills, sporting achievement or creative pursuits.

 

Britain used to pioneer thefields of music, the arts and football. Now it pioneers terrible trends in anoraks and nylon sports gear. Nice work to you and your soul brothers.

[Ron Burgundy]

While some of them were a bit handy i found most casuals to be sad little whimps who trawled about mob handed picking on small groups of innocent folk and then taking turns each to jump on thier heads.

 

Thats it in a nutshell.

[Acey]

Casuals = metrosexuals of their time.

[vegas-voss]

A hooligan is a hooligan no matter what they dress in.What there is no denying though is how the casuals got men interested in designer clothes.Until Liverpool fans started theiving everything from abroad you just could not get the kind of gear you did abroad here.Suddenly big designer firms started to see there was a market in the UK and opened shops here or specialist clothing outlets opened up to offer a range of all.The OP is also right there was loads of thieving ****s as well.I remember a couple of guys my age who took orders from quite a few guys in my year at school to steal Sergio Tachini tracksuits and Armani jeans every weekend.I don't know what it was like in the beginning as i only know it from 86 onwards when in first year at secoundry when i like everyone else started getting into clothes and trainers.Never stole anything in my life though but will confess to being in plenty of scraps.Most guys i know that branded themselves casuals though were fantasist more than hardmen as most of them were no scrappers and i can't even recall any of them even going to the football.To steal a phrase from Bring Out Your Riot Gear i would define them as Chip Shop casuals(the neds of the day but with smarter clothing)

[Goodmorningmrfisherman]

I dont recall seeing casuals following Hearts until the mid 80's. Correct me if I am wrong though.

 

 

I would have to agree with you I can't mind casuals in the late 70's and can't recall them being in any the first division battles at Dundee,Motherwell and Dumfries during the early 80's.

 

Also when the casual scene came around hearts had very few at the time.

[Debut 4]

So am I. Aberdeen started the ball rolling in Scotland in about 81. Followed by Motherwell and the Hobo's.

 

Our casuals never started until about 84 or 85 if I recall.

It`s been well spoken about on other threads through time that Hearts did`nt take to the casual scene as quick as others.

 

At the transformation into casuals Hearts had an already established and notorious hooligan element.

 

I even remember the corner chanting "send yer casuals over here" at the small band of them that sat at the end of the wheatfield shed.

[Sherlock]

From recollection, back in it's heyday, you had two very different breeds of lads who called themselves casuals. On one hand you had your bog-standard thugs who, more often than not, dressed as paraffin lamps and were solely interested in the scrapping. On the other, you had those that were more interested in the clothes and 'oneupmanship' but was more than happy to put himself (and his new clobber) on the line in defence of his team and his firm.

 

From the mid-80's to mid-90's, the battles were very rarely won with fists and feet on the streets after the game but were more likely to have been fought with comments at the segregation about what the other firm was wearing.

 

Sadly, the art of oneupmanship has been lost, probably forever, and those that call themselves casuals nowadays are completely missing the point by dressing all the same.

 

It wasn't about everyone wearing the same jacket, it was about wearing something that no-one else had.

[Tazio]

The lads who got into the casual movement for the image thing tended to be ex mods. Certainly the guys my age were, including someone who always gets namechecked in these threads. And that was after I had left school so early to mid 80's. The ones who were in it for the violence were a different kettle of fish altogether.

[Sherlock]

The lads who got into the casual movement for the image thing tended to be ex mods. Certainly the guys my age were, including someone who always gets namechecked in these threads. And that was after I had left school so early to mid 80's. The ones who were in it for the violence were a different kettle of fish altogether.

 

Does he live in Carshalton?

[Tazio]

Does he live in Carshalton?

 

Not a clue mate, I haven't seen him for many, many years. Certainly down south for a long time.

[Bomber Harris]

what a load of cobblers,i was on the fringes of the casual movement when a teenager,ive never taken speed(or any illegal substance for that matter)ive never stolen anything either,it was a fashion,nothing more nothing less,oh aye and im neither a wino or a binman,i still keep in touch with some lads and theyre good family men whom id trust with my life

 

never mind all that guff - did ye ever panel anybody

[Carl Weathers]

Some of the clothes are mint though.

[eddie fenwick]

never mind all that guff - did ye ever panel anybody

 

there wernt alot of teens(when i was growing up anyway)who hadnt,wether you were a mod,casual ,skin or whatever,no identity for kids nowadays(maybe not a bad thing tho)

[wibble]

The lads who got into the casual movement for the image thing tended to be ex mods. Certainly the guys my age were, including someone who always gets namechecked in these threads. And that was after I had left school so early to mid 80's. The ones who were in it for the violence were a different kettle of fish altogether.

 

.. and that says it all. Anyone who wanted to be a Mod (which came about after they all watched Quadrophenia) when there was such a good punk scene to be involved in was obviously deranged and delusional.

 

Bondage pants, t-shirts and great hair or grandads old suit, a parka and a bowl cut?

 

Only Hobos chose grandads suit and a bowl cut. Knobs one and all.

[this_is_my_story]

Some of the clothes are mint though.

 

Feckin right.. and they still are.

 

http://www.casualsclobber.co.uk/ Check this site out, some right good gear, and some of it at pretty good prices.

[this_is_my_story]

MJ, what's your beef exactly with casual culture? You seem to be having a right few digs here. Aside from the fact that a few 'wrong-uns' saw fit to attach themselves to the movement, what is it about the whole thing that causes you so much grief?

[wibble]

Feckin right.. and they still are.

 

http://www.casualsclobber.co.uk/ Check this site out, some right good gear, and some of it at pretty good prices.

 

 

475 quid for a parka. :4_1_72::4_1_72:

 

Aye, very cool and such a good price.

 

http://www.casualsclobber.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=32&products_id=203&osCsid=f62f072c4eea0eb29f1b5f7443e1f6e1

[wibble]

MJ, what's your beef exactly with casual culture? You seem to be having a right few digs here. Aside from the fact that a few 'wrong-uns' saw fit to attach themselves to the movement, what is it about the whole thing that causes you so much grief?

 

No beef as such, just perplexed by the way the myth of the football casual has grown to the point where they changed the face of the planet and were the most creative individuals on earth.

 

The truth is that the other youth subcultures were much more creative at the time. The punk movement was changing music, creating genuinely new fashions and breaking new ground in the artwork they created and the ideas that they presented.

 

Casuals were running around dressed like yer dad on a golf outing and bashing and thieving. I just don't think they deserve any kudos whatsoever.

 

Wearing expensive clothes doesn't actually make a person any better than the next man.

 

People have actually said in this thread that the best thing about being a casual was giving banter to other fans about how they were dressed. How effin shallow can you get?

 

If anything casual culture stifled the development of true fashion by forcing people to conform to brands. Sad.

[this_is_my_story]

 

475 quid for a parka. :4_1_72::4_1_72:

 

Aye, very cool and such a good price.

 

http://www.casualsclobber.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=32&products_id=203&osCsid=f62f072c4eea0eb29f1b5f7443e1f6e1

 

CP Company gear is absolutely top drawer stuff, and is not to be sniffed at. You either appreciate good clobber, or you don't! You've obviously never understood the brilliant design of Massimo Osti.

[wibble]

CP Company gear is absolutely top drawer stuff, and is not to be sniffed at. You either appreciate good clobber, or you don't! You've obviously never understood the brilliant design of Massimo Osti.

 

Perhaps you better explain the finer points of this parka to me (and the rest of JKB). If his parka is such a masterpiece of design and fashion I am sure you will be able to explain what makes it worth 475 quid.

 

Please give reasons for your "appreciation" of such a fine object. If you can't give a detailed response I will be forced to assume that you are a fashion snob and a complete tugger.

[Mr Nobody]

Rubbish, the majority were as the op says, or alludes to, brainless thugs.

et

 

 

Entitled to your opinion and all that but I knew a good few who were heavily into the scene and apart from getting involved in the odd scrap were pretty much normal people with decent backgrounds and jobs.

 

 

They may have been thugs when it came to football etc. but they certainly weren't brainless thugs. The violence was mostly left for likeminded people who followed other teams.

 

 

There was another thread on here recently about the Rainbow which was a hangout and latterly Westbury's and is painted as being a complete hole but that is far from the case.

 

 

The only thing that kept me on the fringes of the scene was that I wasn't completely comfortable with the underlying racist tones of a few of the blokes.

 

 

The op may have a point with regards the casual scene being a bit on the shallow side and the occassional violence that went with it but to say that the individuals involved are burglars, winos and binmen of today is also incorrect.

[Charlie-Brown]

Certainly in the Hibs casuals there was more than a few psychopaths, one in particular who is/was a Carstairs resident and others who are/were violent thugs/gangsters....I won't name names but those who knew them will know who iam talking about.

[Legend Claws]

Defo late 70's Deek.

speaking from experiance

 

Your mental.

[Adi Dassler]

The "casuals" were Modernists really.

 

As someone mentioned earlier it was all about one-upmanship, having that jumper/jacket/trainers that nobody else had. It's a working class thing that comes from wanting to look good. To give the impression that you are better off than you really are. Goes all the way back to the Teddy Boys. Some would argue even further with the Trad Jazz scene in Soho after the war.

 

The violence was almost secondary. At the end of the day men will fight other men from other areas/towns/schools etc. It's been that way since forever.

[Sawdust Caesar]

.. and that says it all. Anyone who wanted to be a Mod (which came about after they all watched Quadrophenia) when there was such a good punk scene to be involved in was obviously deranged and delusional.

 

Bondage pants, t-shirts and great hair or grandads old suit, a parka and a bowl cut?

 

Only Hobos chose grandads suit and a bowl cut. Knobs one and all.

 

I got into mod around '81, never saw Quadrophenia till about 84. I never owned a parka, never had a bowl cut and why on earth would I want to wear my grandad's demob suit from the 1940s?

As for punk, by 79 that was dieing on it's erse, and great haircuts...yeah sure, when you've seem one mohican you've seen them all, not one of them unique. Punk was well on the wane when the mod revival happened but to be fair it did last longer than the mod revival. There are still guys, like myself, who are in their 40s and still love the music, the clothes etc, can't say the same for punk though. For the record I like some punk music, just not the clothes.

[Sherlock]

The "casuals" were Modernists really.

 

As someone mentioned earlier it was all about one-upmanship, having that jumper/jacket/trainers that nobody else had. It's a working class thing that comes from wanting to look good. To give the impression that you are better off than you really are. Goes all the way back to the Teddy Boys. Some would argue even further with the Trad Jazz scene in Soho after the war.

 

The violence was almost secondary. At the end of the day men will fight other men from other areas/towns/schools etc. It's been that way since forever.

 

You might want to watch this program on BBCiplayer mate - British Style Genius: Loud and Proud - The Street Look

 

But it's only available until 9.59pm tonight.

[Therapist]

when you've seem one mohican you've seen them all

 

I hate to be a pedant - no, really - but the hairstyle you're referring is more correctly termed a Huron.

[Zico]

CP Company gear is absolutely top drawer stuff, and is not to be sniffed at. You either appreciate good clobber, or you don't! You've obviously never understood the brilliant design of Massimo Osti.

 

He left in the mid-90s though, and the CP/SI gear went downhill from then. Hugely influential designer though, died relatively young too.

 

CP/SI still use interesting fabrics but far too common and obvious. As someone said, it used to be about having gear other folk didn't have rather than a uniform. Not that I am, or ever have been a casual, just into the clothes.

[eddie fenwick]

You might want to watch this program on BBCiplayer mate - British Style Genius: Loud and Proud - The Street Look

 

But it's only available until 9.59pm tonight.

 

thanks for that,brilliant:)

[this_is_my_story]

Perhaps you better explain the finer points of this parka to me (and the rest of JKB). If his parka is such a masterpiece of design and fashion I am sure you will be able to explain what makes it worth 475 quid.

 

Please give reasons for your "appreciation" of such a fine object. If you can't give a detailed response I will be forced to assume that you are a fashion snob and a complete tugger.

 

:laugh: I do like that term, I'll remember it!

 

The garment is without doubt over-priced, that I'll give you. If we're being honest though, so are a lot of items at the higher end of many markets.

 

For me, it's about cut, design, quality of fabric and attention to detail - things that you'll find are very rare with cheaper garments. I've a jacket that I bought almost 4 years ago, and while I'll admit that it hasn't exactly been worn every day, it's current condition is testimony to it's sheer quality. It's a Massimo Osti designed jacket for a sister company of the one you posted the link to.

 

Wearing expensive clothes doesn't actually make a person any better than the next man.

 

People have actually said in this thread that the best thing about being a casual was giving banter to other fans about how they were dressed. How effin shallow can you get?

 

If anything casual culture stifled the development of true fashion by forcing people to conform to brands. Sad.

 

Agree 100%, I haven't ever stated otherwise. Nothing wrong with me liking having a few nice threads on my back though, is there!

 

I can almost see where you're coming from with your comment about the stifling of 'true fashion' (whatever that actually is), but it undoubtedly changed blokes' attitudes in this country towards their clobber. Never really been one to just buy because of the brand either, it's more important that an item has the right 'look' - a big huge name on the front of a jumper or jacket is just tasteless IMO.

 

Anyway MJ, care to tell us what's currently de rigueur for your good self when you fancy feeling smart... A little something like this, maybe?

 

[this_is_my_story]

He left in the mid-90s though, and the CP/SI gear went downhill from then. Hugely influential designer though, died relatively young too.

 

CP/SI still use interesting fabrics but far too common and obvious. As someone said, it used to be about having gear other folk didn't have rather than a uniform. Not that I am, or ever have been a casual, just into the clothes.

 

Aye, same here. Know what you mean about the CP & SI gear, can't help but still like a lot of it though. Millie Miglias are still cool to me!

 

Coincidentally, I've just been watching some videos of your namesake on YouTube. Now, he was a player!

[Jambothump]

Rubbish, the majority were as the op says, or alludes to, brainless thugs.

et

And come on, I will physically "argue" with anyone who wants to say otherwise ha ha