Can we all agree that a united group is a useful thing for us to work towards?

[jambovambo]

Can we all agree that a united group, which all supporters can be members of and have a say in, which can be the spokepeople for the fans, is a useful thing for us to work towards regardless of Romanov or the situation of the club right now?

 

(credit to Jambomo's post in my "So what are we prepared to do about the state of our club ? " thread)

[Victorian]

no.

 

[Das Root]

Yes.

[deejtee]

Useful if possible. Huge and probably insurmountable if and so.......No

[Guest JamboRobbo]

maybe.

[Mike Hunt]

oh go on then

[Charlie-Brown]

It is perfectly possible, clubs that dwarf Hearts in size have long established member schemes.

[deejtee]

Thought the question was about a united group , not a membership scheme?

[MacDonald Jardine]

Can we all agree that a united group, which all supporters can be members of and have a say in, which can be the spokepeople for the fans, is a useful thing for us to work towards regardless of Romanov or the situation of the club right now?

 

(credit to Jambomo's post in my "So what are we prepared to do about the state of our club ? " thread)

 

Not really.

Without a common purpose there is no united group.

Other than speaking for the fans (whatever that means) what would be its aims?

[Charlie-Brown]

Providing a voice, oversight of & co-operating with the football club is generally the function of supporter groups.

[mickmaroon]

Not really.

Without a common purpose there is no united group.

Other than speaking for the fans (whatever that means) what would be its aims?

 

Agreed - without a clearer idea of who is being represented, and for what actual purpose the answer has to be St Johnstone.

[Jambomo]

Providing a voice, oversight of & co-operating with the football club is generally the function of supporter groups.

 

Indeed that is the kind of thing I had in mind when I posted on the other thread. We all have a common ground in that we all support Hearts and we all want the club to be the best that it possibly can be, I guess the common purpose of the group would be place for all fans to go, so we are all able to get our views across to the club itself and give a more collective weight to our individual supporters.

 

This group doesn't have to be a negative entity, its useful to have one single line of commnication with the club in good times and in bad as at the moment we seem to operate with a number of small groups and that can be confusing, can't be easy for the club to try to work with them all and some seem to be kind of exclusive and not open to all.

[mickmaroon]

Indeed that is the kind of thing I had in mind when I posted on the other thread. We all have a common ground in that we all support Hearts and we all want the club to be the best that it possibly can be, I guess the common purpose of the group would be place for all fans to go, so we are all able to get our views across to the club itself and give a more collective weight to our individual supporters.

 

This group doesn't have to be a negative entity, its useful to have one single line of commnication with the club in good times and in bad as at the moment we seem to operate with a number of small groups and that can be confusing, can't be easy for the club to try to work with them all and some seem to be kind of exclusive and not open to all.

 

So we ask all the existing groups to merge?

[deejtee]

Does anyone think that

1/ Romanov is unaware of our concerns

2/ That the voice of the majority of supporters would be expressed by a group formed from some of the more vocal (and repetitive) members of this site?

Are there not plenty groups already voicing the opinions of groups of fans? This is actually a good thing rather than one group working towards an agenda especially as common themes emerge....if the owner is interested in hearing them.

[Genghis Khan]

Can we all agree that a united group, which all supporters can be members of and have a say in, which can be the spokepeople for the fans, is a useful thing for us to work towards regardless of Romanov or the situation of the club right now?

 

(credit to Jambomo's post in my "So what are we prepared to do about the state of our club ? " thread)

 

How do you propose to involve the non-JKB element (vast majority) in this new group? The club seem to be really reluctant to meet with any JKB-related group, which I fear this would be.

 

Have you polled the members of HoMST, FHSC, Fans Forum and HMSA about this too?

[Jambomo]

Does anyone think that

1/ Romanov is unaware of our concerns

2/ That the voice of the majority of supporters would be expressed by a group formed from some of the more vocal (and repetitive) members of this site?

Are there not plenty groups already voicing the opinions of groups of fans? This is actually a good thing rather than one group working towards an agenda especially as common themes emerge....if the owner is interested in hearing them.

 

1) I'm sure that Romanov is quite well aware of the concerns of fans however why do you think he is continually able to ignore them? We as fans have no influence over him at all because the groups that do speak to him do not appear to have any backing from the majority of the support. I'm not saying if we form a group things will be different - nothing might change at all and as I've said before the idea was that establishing one large group for all supporters was to give a collective weight in all dealings with Hearts not just in this case with Romanov.

 

2) I think that there are many other Hearts fans who might get involved that do not or rarely get involved in posting on this board. I don't post that much on here myself so I don't know all about previous attempts at this kind of thing or the people who might lead it - it was just a random thought on another thread.

 

3) I'm not sure why you think that a number of smaller groups is better? (sorry don't mean this in any bad way just not sure why that might be?) it'sar enough, your maybe right.

[Das Root]

How do you propose to involve the non-JKB element (vast majority) in this new group? The club seem to be really reluctant to meet with any JKB-related group, which I fear this would be.

 

Have you polled the members of HoMST, FHSC, Fans Forum and HMSA about this too?

 

 

You can only poll members of groups if those in charge either do it for you or allow access to the details required. So I'm guessing that on the back of a simple question asked the answer would be 'nope'.

 

Even then there is no need to specifically ask groups, you just need to be able to ask everyone in one go and then they can choose to answer and choose whether to state if they are affiliated with another group.

 

A medium outside of JKB will be required, such as a website incorporating the ideals of the new group and a questionnaire or poll and contact email so they can ask questions or provide support.

 

All very simple to do.

[deejtee]

Simple may be a good term here!

[Coco]

I don't think that there is a united message from the Hearts fans on KB.

 

Anyone who purported to represent a united message would get short shrift.

[ando]

I don't think that there is a united message from the Hearts fans on KB.

 

Anyone who purported to represent a united message would get short shrift.

The HYSC and the Tynie &Teenie Tigers may have the biggest membership of the lot and would be the best to run a united hearts group.

[1874robbo]

Can we all agree that a united group, which all supporters can be members of and have a say in, which can be the spokepeople for the fans, is a useful thing for us to work towards regardless of Romanov or the situation of the club right now?

 

(credit to Jambomo's post in my "So what are we prepared to do about the state of our club ? " thread)

 

Agree 100%

[Gambo]

What would make this group different to the Fans Forum or the Fans Trust (if they still exist) ?

[topcat]

If we were all agreed on something then we would as a group be united at least on that thing.

 

Which would mean that as we would already be a united group it would no longer be something which we could work towards.

 

I voted no on the basis that yes is a logical paradox.

[jambovambo]

If we were all agreed on something then we would as a group be united at least on that thing.

 

Which would mean that as we would already be a united group it would no longer be something which we could work towards.

 

I voted no on the basis that yes is a logical paradox.

 

Aye, very good.

 

Right enough, I shoudl have thought of that.

 

[bn jambo]

Why do we need to involve dundee united forums ?

[Nookie Bear]

How do you propose to involve the non-JKB element (vast majority) in this new group? The club seem to be really reluctant to meet with any JKB-related group, which I fear this would be.

 

Have you polled the members of HoMST, FHSC, Fans Forum and HMSA about this too?

 

For a start, what i would like to see is space given on kickback for all the aforementioned groups - and any others - to 'sell' their group to non-members like myself. For example, I don't want to travel on buses to away games, I don't really drink before or after games and I don't own shares......so how and where do I get involved and who is best for me?

 

When the time comes, the more of us who are members of any organisation - and therefore kept 'in the loop' - the better. and whether we are marching down Gorgie Road under one flag or 10 the impact will be better for having more people ready.

 

At the moment, the general impression of the groups seems to be one of indifference, mistrust and confusion and this needs to be sorted.

[jambovambo]

For a start, what i would like to see is space given on kickback for all the aforementioned groups - and any others - to 'sell' their group to non-members like myself. For example, I don't want to travel on buses to away games, I don't really drink before or after games and I don't own shares......so how and where do I get involved and who is best for me?

 

When the time comes, the more of us who are members of any organisation - and therefore kept 'in the loop' - the better. and whether we are marching down Gorgie Road under one flag or 10 the impact will be better for having more people ready.

 

At the moment, the general impression of the groups seems to be one of indifference, mistrust and confusion and this needs to be sorted.

 

Great stuff, SHB ... thanks for the encouragement.

[Gambo]

For a start, what i would like to see is space given on kickback for all the aforementioned groups - and any others - to 'sell' their group to non-members like myself. For example, I don't want to travel on buses to away games, I don't really drink before or after games and I don't own shares......so how and where do I get involved and who is best for me?

 

When the time comes, the more of us who are members of any organisation - and therefore kept 'in the loop' - the better. and whether we are marching down Gorgie Road under one flag or 10 the impact will be better for having more people ready.

 

At the moment, the general impression of the groups seems to be one of indifference, mistrust and confusion and this needs to be sorted.

 

I believe there are forums on here for the HMSA, Supporters Clubs and the Fans Forum.

 

What i want to know is what will be the difference between this new united group and the Fans Forum or even the Trust?

 

Whilst we are at it, what is the difference between the Fans Forum and the Trust?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

This strikes of the People's Front of Judea!

 

All I would say that this is what the Fans Forum was meant to do when it was set up. That it didn't was for a myriad of reasons but there is no way that the likes of the Federation would support something like this.

 

In principle, I would vote yes, therefore. In practice, it won't happen.

[jambovambo]

This strikes of the People's Front of Judea!

 

All I would say that this is what the Fans Forum was meant to do when it was set up. That it didn't was for a myriad of reasons but there is no way that the likes of the Federation would support something like this.

 

In principle, I would vote yes, therefore. In practice, it won't happen.

 

a) Fair enough ... this has been mentioned.

 

Hah - that sounds like a challenge then !

[roberto]

I believe there are forums on here for the HMSA, Supporters Clubs and the Fans Forum.

 

What i want to know is what will be the difference between this new united group and the Fans Forum or even the Trust?

 

Whilst we are at it, what is the difference between the Fans Forum and the Trust?

 

the shareholders have a page on this forum or http://www.hmsa.org.uk

[Paolo]

Can we all agree that a united group, which all supporters can be members of and have a say in, which can be the spokepeople for the fans, is a useful thing for us to work towards regardless of Romanov or the situation of the club right now?

 

(credit to Jambomo's post in my "So what are we prepared to do about the state of our club ? " thread)

 

No, too many fans have different opinions, and do not repsect that of others - you only need to look on here to say that.

 

You agree with Vlad about something, you are a Vlad Sheep or a Hobo, yo don't you are a hat kicker or as Hobo.

[Nookie Bear]

I believe there are forums on here for the HMSA, Supporters Clubs and the Fans Forum.

 

What i want to know is what will be the difference between this new united group and the Fans Forum or even the Trust?

 

Whilst we are at it, what is the difference between the Fans Forum and the Trust?

 

Yeah, and to be honest I didn't investigate hugely before posting but I still think some sort of 'Front Page' with a general overview of the idea behind each group, how we can join (if at all), how much, what do they do and how we can get involved etc etc

 

I think the fact you, a long-standing JKB member, ask what the difference is between 2 groups says it all as how clear it all is.

[ando]

I believe there are forums on here for the HMSA, Supporters Clubs and the Fans Forum.

 

What i want to know is what will be the difference between this new united group and the Fans Forum or even the Trust?

 

are at it, what is the difference between the Fans Forum and the Trust?

Whilst we

one you never hear from the other you never hear from

[Jamboelite]

Whilst we [/b]

one you never hear from the other you never hear from

 

I agree on that as a member of the Fans Forum i have to take responsibility for the fact there has been very little communicated recently to fans (if im truthful b***er all in the last few months) however the AGM is currently being organised for people to come, and if they so wish, try to join the committee of the FF as there will be a vote on the night.

 

The reason it has been quiet is for that very reason as for one reason or another some members have now elected to stand down and wish new blood into the group

 

I know there will be at least one person standing down from the current committee (ME) and others would have to be re-elected back on if thats peoples wish.

 

The Fans Forum is for everyone of a maroon persuasion you dont have to be a member, you dont have to be a season ticket holder, you dont have to even live in this country just support HMFC.

 

The trouble for us is how we communicate to you as we are not funded by anyone and therefore anything done has to be done cheap or with the help of others or ideally free which makes it very difficult.

 

Details on the AGM will be made very shortly to let you know where to go if your interested in getting involved.

 

IMHO i think personally that one group would make sense but you have to understand that alot of people in all these groups have put in alot of effort to get their respective groups where they are and that can be difficult just to give up. For some that could be 20years + of doing work without being paid on behalf of the supporters.

[jambovambo]

I agree on that as a member of the Fans Forum i have to take responsibility for the fact there has been very little communicated recently to fans (if im truthful b***er all in the last few months) however the AGM is currently being organised for people to come, and if they so wish, try to join the committee of the FF as there will be a vote on the night.

 

The reason it has been quiet is for that very reason as for one reason or another some members have now elected to stand down and wish new blood into the group

 

I know there will be at least one person standing down from the current committee (ME) and others would have to be re-elected back on if thats peoples wish.

 

The Fans Forum is for everyone of a maroon persuasion you dont have to be a member, you dont have to be a season ticket holder, you dont have to even live in this country just support HMFC.

 

The trouble for us is how we communicate to you as we are not funded by anyone and therefore anything done has to be done cheap or with the help of others or ideally free which makes it very difficult.

 

Details on the AGM will be made very shortly to let you know where to go if your interested in getting involved.

 

IMHO i think personally that one group would make sense but you have to understand that alot of people in all these groups have put in alot of effort to get their respective groups where they are and that can be difficult just to give up. For some that could be 20years + of doing work without being paid on behalf of the supporters.

 

Nowhere have we been suggesting that a new supporters organisation would replace any or all other ones - this would be new (for some people) or in addition to (for others) but overall an "umbrella" organisation representing all Hearts fans (that wish to be represented this way, of course).

[Jamboelite]

Nowhere have we been suggesting that a new supporters organisation would replace any or all other ones - this would be new (for some people) or in addition to (for others) but overall an "umbrella" organisation representing all Hearts fans (that wish to be represented this way, of course).

 

Sorry i've maybe taken that up wrong as i skimmed across the posts. In that case what benefit would another organisation bring to the table and with what aims ?? surely a better move would be to have the Fans Forum revamped and perhaps a way of getting money to it while still holding to the believe that it is for everyone without the need for membership rather than a new group ?

 

Afterall the Fans Forum is a non membership group to represent everyone doesnt that fit into the "umbrella organisation representing all Hearts fans "

[Jambomo]

Nowhere have we been suggesting that a new supporters organisation would replace any or all other ones - this would be new (for some people) or in addition to (for others) but overall an "umbrella" organisation representing all Hearts fans (that wish to be represented this way, of course).

 

Sorry, I think he may have got that idea from my posts as mine suggested getting them all into one. That was only my own thoughts and opinion though, i am not involved in Jambovambo/anyone elses ideas or setting up of anything I was just putting in my tuppenceworth.

[ando]

Sorry i've maybe taken that up wrong as i skimmed across the posts. In that case what benefit would another organisation bring to the table and with what aims ?? surely a better move would be to have the Fans Forum revamped and perhaps a way of getting money to it while still holding to the believe that it is for everyone without the need for membership rather than a new group ?

 

Afterall the Fans Forum is a non membership group to represent everyone doesnt that fit into the "umbrella organisation representing all Hearts fans "

 

only if committee members are not a part of any other group

[Jamboelite]

only if committee members are not a part of any other group

 

Sorry you've lost me (its not hard this afternoon) do you mean at the moment FF committee members have to make sure they arent a member of any other group?

 

Or do you mean that this new group would have to make sure that their committee members were not tied to anyone else ?

 

As far as im aware there is nothing stopping you being on the FF group and going on another if thats your wish.

[mickmaroon]

Sorry i've maybe taken that up wrong as i skimmed across the posts. In that case what benefit would another organisation bring to the table and with what aims ?? surely a better move would be to have the Fans Forum revamped and perhaps a way of getting money to it while still holding to the believe that it is for everyone without the need for membership rather than a new group ?

 

Afterall the Fans Forum is a non membership group to represent everyone doesnt that fit into the "umbrella organisation representing all Hearts fans "

 

It seems to me that the FF (which is a bit moribund at the moment) would be a useful forum for Jambovambo and co (who i can't name since he ain't posted on this thread) can 'air their laundry' so to speak.

 

They are talking about an inclusive umbrella organisation. Why not the FF guys?

 

At the AGM those who are mooting 'movement' on this thread and elsewhere can state their views, seek election to the FF committee, and interested fans can hear their views and be persuaded (or not as the case may be).

 

I'd certainly come and listen to what they have to say.

[jambovambo]

Great to get some constructive and forward-looking posting on this subject, everyone ... thanks.

 

Maybe, just maybe ... we're starting to get somewhere.

[ando]

Sorry you've lost me (its not hard this afternoon) do you mean at the moment FF committee members have to make sure they arent a member of any other group?

 

Or do you mean that this new group would have to make sure that their committee members were not tied to anyone else ?

 

As far as im aware there is nothing stopping you being on the FF group and going on another if thats your wish.

 

both there must be no conflict of intrests

[Jamboelite]

both there must be no conflict of intrests

 

I dont see when an issue would arise if you happen to be on both as a committee member, but at the moment there isnt anyone on more than one committee as far as i know although obviously some people are members of the trust and federation.

 

At the end of the day i think that the FF already has a good working relationship with the current regime and if the FF can be strengthened then it is easier to turn this into a more organised group than starting a fresh particularly as it represents it seems the "Umbrella Group" that some seem to want.

[ando]

I dont see when an issue would arise if you happen to be on both as a committee member, but at the moment there isnt anyone on more than one committee as far as i know although obviously some people are members of the trust and federation.

 

At the end of the day i think that the FF already has a good working relationship with the current regime and if the FF can be strengthened then it is easier to turn this into a more organised group than starting a fresh particularly as it represents it seems the "Umbrella Group" that some seem to want.

 

how can the ff have a good relationship with the club when they dont have one with the fans they say they represent

[Jambomo]

how can the ff have a good relationship with the club when they dont have one with the fans they say they represent

 

I think that's why he's talking about strengthing it, i.e its relations with the fans. At the moment it doesn't seem to have much relationship with the fans as many appear not to know of it and they don't seem to put themselves in the public eye so to speak so fans can find out about them.

 

I think that goes back to the initial problem, too many small groups representing a few of the fans - if the fans forum can be made bigger and as representative of as many fans as possible then surely that would be this all-encompassing group that we are referring to.

[jambovambo]

I think that's why he's talking about strengthing it, i.e its relations with the fans. At the moment it doesn't seem to have much relationship with the fans as many appear not to know of it and they don't seem to put themselves in the public eye so to speak so fans can find out about them.

 

I think that goes back to the initial problem, too many small groups representing a few of the fans - if the fans forum can be made bigger and as representative of as many fans as possible then surely that would be this all-encompassing group that we are referring to.

 

I do think a new vehicle is required though ... something new, fresh, with new ideas and ideals ...

 

Wonder if Obama is a Jambo ?

[Jambomo]

I do think a new vehicle is required though ... something new, fresh, with new ideas and ideals ...

 

Wonder if Obama is a Jambo ?

 

But would you not just be adding to the number of groups already established?

 

It may be easier to evolve an already existing group into what you want, especially if it is at a crossroads of it's own, as it appears to already have support behind it and links to the club whilst taking it forward in a new direction and making it into the group we want it to be.

[jambovambo]

But would you not just be adding to the number of groups already established?

 

It may be easier to evolve an already existing group into what you want, especially if it is at a crossroads of it's own, as it appears to already have support behind it and links to the club whilst taking it forward in a new direction and making it into the group we want it to be.

Could be a lot of resistance from within (I think we've some evidence of that already earlier in this thread ...).

 

I know what you're saying ... but I think a new start, which adds to, and doesn't take away from, existing organisations is required.

 

Not going to be easy.

[Jambomo]

Could be a lot of resistance from within (I think we've some evidence of that already earlier in this thread ...).

 

I know what you're saying ... but I think a new start, which adds to, and doesn't take away from, existing organisations is required.

 

Not going to be easy.

 

I know, you wouldn't think we were all Hearts fan would you? I meant to say In my last post I was talking about evolving the Fans Forum which Jamboelite was referring to. I don't know how many people belonging to that who would have a problem with it being revamped as it sounded to me from the previous posts that it was not really active at the moment and maybe needed fresh ideas itself.

 

Also just to add that although there appears to be some resistance I think there would need to be a time where all the different groups try to come together and at least work together - infighting between the fan organizations will not help to achieve anything with the club. If fans can't organize themselves without fighting how can we expect the club to take us or our points seriously?