Atheists' bus ads on the way

[spud]

As for both the omnipotence paradox and the question of who created God, these questions are fundamentally flawed in the first place. God is not like us, God is not bound by three dimensions as we are. As Ulysses put it very eloquently earlier God doesn't inhabit the same quantum universe we do. You are placing physical restrictions on the Almighty.

 

Fair enough, god is not like us, he/she is not bound by three dimensions, he she does not inhabit the same quantum universe as we do. I will give you every one of these points. But the fundamental question is never answered; where did he/she come from? This is the fundamental flaw in religion, one that is never addressed, one that is always covered by the blanket explanation.....Oh you have to have faith.

[Craig R]

From the wikipedia page for David Attenborough he also said "as far as I'm concerned, if there is a supreme being then he chose organic evolution as a way of bringing into existence the natural world."

 

I wouldn't argue with any of that.

 

So you don't believe the bible then? Because that certainly contradicts the biblical account of how life on the planet was created by God.

[N User]

God or no god, is it really worth putting adverts on buses?

 

Dawkins generally comes across as a dick.

[BlackJAC?]

Nothing i hate more than atheists who say there can't be a god and thats the end of it and brand those who believe in something more are idiots.

 

My Dad is very religious, a strong Christian and whilst i couldn't say the same about myself his religion does nothing more than make him truly believe that there is something better after this life. And i don't see anything wrong with that, just wish i shared that belief so strongly. Maybe i'll learn to 1 day.

 

And if you met him you wouldn't ever guess it unless you got into a discussion on it- I also hate the stereotypical ''bible-basher'' thing that people put out there. Normal people can be religious too!!

 

Imo its atheists that are the most narrow minded people of all.

 

 

Works both ways tbh. Most atheists really don't give a **** what goes on in churches, private dwellings etc. What irks the majority of people is most of us simply don't like being preached to. All things considered, it's quite understandable.

[Ulysses]

As Ulysses put it very eloquently earlier God doesn't inhabit the same quantum universe we do.

 

I didn't say that.

[Sidelight]

There exists a hypothesis (more accurately, a set of connected hypotheses) of how humanity came into existence that does not require it to have been created by a god. All of the available evidence supports this and none of the available evidence contradicts it.

 

Well that’s not even remotely true is it.

 

Where to begin? The very beginning I suppose.

 

Hawking and others have developed a mathematical model of the early universe which involves the concept of ‘imaginary time’, which, it is argued, removes the need for singularities, and thus avoids the question of a Creator. But it doesn’t.

 

Hawking's highly speculative nature of explanations suggesting that the universe arises from a fluctuation in a quantum vacuum simply pushes the origins question one step further back, to asking about the creation of the said vacuum.

 

And very importantly it also leaves unanswered the question, “where did the laws governing such a vacuum come from?

 

Hawking admits that the universe has a beginning and an end at singularities that form a boundary to space-time and at which the laws of science breakdown.

 

It is clear that there is widely held a consensus of opinion (a world view) that the universe had a beginning. Attempts to suggest that the universe is self explanatory turn out to be as self contradictory as the simple acceptance of a beginning as a fact is unsatisfactory.

 

In fact as science progresses and the more we get to know about our universe, the more the hypothesis that there is a Creator God, who designed the universe for a reason, gains in credibility as the best explanation of why we are here.

[Craig R]

In fact as science progresses and the more we get to know about our universe, the more the hypothesis that there is a Creator God, who designed the universe for a reason, gains in credibility as the best explanation of why we are here.

 

But that doesn't explain anything - again it just opens the question of who created the creator? It must have started somewhere. Everything has a beginning.

[Sidelight]

But that doesn't explain anything - again it just opens the question of who created the creator? It must have started somewhere. Everything has a beginning.

 

Of course we can make the priori assumption that nothing exists that is eternal.

 

However that assumption is neither justified by science or philosophy.

[The Doctor]

As Ulysses put it very eloquently earlier God doesn't inhabit the same quantum universe we do.

 

 

I didn't say that.

 

In post #45

A lot of that makes sense to me, except for that bit about the being that doesn't inhabit the same quantum universe that we do.

 

I took it out of context granted, but I just liked your turn of phrase, I didn't mean to infer anything, it was meant as a compliment!

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

I would enjoy religion more if it was like this I think.

 

[Commander Harris]

I would enjoy religion more if it was like this I think.

 

 

if that's your bag I'm sure you could find that sort of thing!

[The Doctor]

So you don't believe the bible then? Because that certainly contradicts the biblical account of how life on the planet was created by God.

 

No it doesn't, it contradicts a literal, narrow and dogmatic interpretation of the biblical account of creation. Some people might argue that it contradicts the traditional interpretation of Genesis 1-3 (which would be a smarter argument), but even that would be wrong.

 

I am perfectly able to interpret God's word for myself and in fact that is what centuries of religious teachers and leaders have done. This idea pre-dates Christianity and was the way that Jewish Rabbis taught in the synagogue before Jesus' incarnation. Rabbis would have their own interpretation of the law, individuals would apply some parts strictly, some liberally. It was known as that Rabbi's yoke. For example one Rabbi might say that it was okay to feed your livestock on the sabbath, others might say that was work and so they should go hungry.

 

Jesus did a lot of this kind of teaching, read the sermon on the mount, it subverts a lot of what the religion of the day was saying. Jesus also said that his yoke was easy, meaning that following him brings us into a state of grace and forgiveness, where we don't have to strive to keep God's law, rather Christians should keep the law as a response to grace.

 

This interpretation of scripture was known as loosing and binding and Jesus encouraged his followers to do it for themselves, to make judgements, not just on people, but on issues and ideas. (Matthew 16:19 and 18:18)

[The Doctor]

Well that?s not even remotely true is it.

 

Where to begin? The very beginning I suppose.

 

Hawking and others have developed a mathematical model of the early universe which involves the concept of ?imaginary time?, which, it is argued, removes the need for singularities, and thus avoids the question of a Creator. But it doesn?t.

 

Hawking's highly speculative nature of explanations suggesting that the universe arises from a fluctuation in a quantum vacuum simply pushes the origins question one step further back, to asking about the creation of the said vacuum.

 

And very importantly it also leaves unanswered the question, ?where did the laws governing such a vacuum come from?

 

Hawking admits that the universe has a beginning and an end at singularities that form a boundary to space-time and at which the laws of science breakdown.

 

It is clear that there is widely held a consensus of opinion (a world view) that the universe had a beginning. Attempts to suggest that the universe is self explanatory turn out to be as self contradictory as the simple acceptance of a beginning as a fact is unsatisfactory.

 

In fact as science progresses and the more we get to know about our universe, the more the hypothesis that there is a Creator God, who designed the universe for a reason, gains in credibility as the best explanation of why we are here.

 

Wow!

 

I heard a story that scientists thought that the universe might have started when a different kind of nothing clashed with the kind of nothing that we know about. They have apparently been looking for a different kind of nothing, but so far they've found nothing.

[Commander Harris]

The Doctor, that's way too much Rob Bell in there for my liking! (Although this thread isn't really the place for that discussion.)

 

with regards to the OP, I think this is another example of the new "evangelistic" athiest who isn't content with not believing in God but feels the need to try and prosylitise people with this (un)belief. It's an interesting trend, and a fairly new one I think. I wonder why?

[The Vulture]

To everyone on here that doesn`t believe in God...............

 

 

Do you celebrate Christmas?

 

Nope, but I celebrate the winter solstace.

[The Vulture]

What I find amsuing is that many people have pride in being whatever religion. Yet Christianity is a middle eastern religion. Believe it was first introduced to Scotland by St Columba.

 

When I first arrived here in NZ I went for a tour of a Maori village. The guide told the story of when the first Europeans came to NZ they were astonished to find that the Maori worship 3 Gods. 1 for the men, 1 for the woman and 1 for the children. The European settlers tried to get the Maori to convert to Christianity, some did, others didn't. But what they did manage to do was tell them to get rid of one of their Gods. So from then on Maori who worshipped their own Gods had 1 for men and 1 for the child. The Maori God for females was declared nul and void.

 

Lets remember that the Christians even believed that the earth went round the sun, and they made the lives of scientists (who said otherwise) hell. Was it not JPII who apologised to Gallielo for this and said the church was wrong ? Yeah that's ok then, considering he has been dead for X hundred years.

[The Doctor]

The Doctor, that's way too much Rob Bell in there for my liking! (Although this thread isn't really the place for that discussion.)

 

with regards to the OP, I think this is another example of the new "evangelistic" athiest who isn't content with not believing in God but feels the need to try and prosylitise people with this (un)belief. It's an interesting trend, and a fairly new one I think. I wonder why?

 

Good spot!

 

Rob Bell is my hero. I'm currently re-reading SexGod and listening to sermons from Marshill on a regular basis.

 

He inspires me!

[Ulysses]

Hawking and others have developed a mathematical model of the early universe which involves the concept of ?imaginary time?, which, it is argued, removes the need for singularities, and thus avoids the question of a Creator. But it doesn?t.

 

Hawking's highly speculative nature of explanations suggesting that the universe arises from a fluctuation in a quantum vacuum simply pushes the origins question one step further back, to asking about the creation of the said vacuum.

 

Some people argue that the imaginary time model avoids the need for a creator, but that isn't its purpose. In fact, it can be argued that the model may open up the possibility of the existence of a creator or creators of this universe. I wouldn't argue that, of course, but I'm surprised creationists haven't seized upon imaginary time as proof of the existence of a creator.

 

The purpose of the imaginary time model is to get over the fact that the equations that explain the structure and expansion of the universe to its present state work really well at all points in time from the present back to the first instant of the universe's existence - but then fail because (and I'm simplifying this) the equations don't work with zero. Imaginary time (i.e. time that runs at right angles to the cosmological time that we experience) allows the equations to keep working.

 

Models of this nature are created regularly by theoretical physicists. Some are abandoned, some are modified, and some stand the test of time better than others. I don't know what the future holds for the imaginary time model, though my guess is that it won't survive without considerable adaptation as new evidence is gathered from experiments like the LHC.

 

In any event, it remains the case that the models that best explain how the universe came to exist and how humanity came into being do not require deliberate creation. People are free to assert that the models do require deliberate creation, but it would help their case if they would set out a testable hypothesis for the assertion. So far, the creationists and the intelligent design proponents haven't done this. It isn't enough to say that something must exist because it might exist. I can't prove the absence of a creator, but I can't prove the absence of leprechauns either. If I want to prove the existence of a creator (or of leprechauns), I have to set up a testable hypothesis and show that it works.

[Ulysses]

In post #45

 

 

I took it out of context granted, but I just liked your turn of phrase, I didn't mean to infer anything, it was meant as a compliment!

 

I appreciate your intent, but unfortunately the effect was to suggest that I believe the universe includes a creator. I wouldn't want anyone labouring under that illusion.

[BigC]

 

As for both the omnipotence paradox and the question of who created God, these questions are fundamentally flawed in the first place. God is not like us, God is not bound by three dimensions as we are. As Ulysses put it very eloquently earlier God doesn't inhabit the same quantum universe we do. You are placing physical restrictions on the Almighty.

 

God is not a created being, He has always been and will always be, he is the ultimate expression of being, that's why he calls himself I AM.

 

Sorry Doc,

 

But that is quite simply the finest example of circular logic I've ever come across.

 

Why do you believe in god?

 

Just 'cos.

[deesidejambo]

Sorry Doc,

 

But that is quite simply the finest example of circular logic I've ever come across.

 

Why do you believe in god?

 

Just 'cos.

 

I like your signature! It raises the question "while we are at it, is there a Devil as well"? Great song though.

[Bigsmak]

Who wrote the Bible?

 

Honestly - how many books were written and by whom?

 

How many of these made it into the final version (today's version)?

 

How many of the written texts did not make it into the bible as we know it?

 

The problem with the Christian faith is that its based on a book that was compiled over hundreds of years and "edited" by the Vatican to show what the Vatican wanted to show. Not a book by God then, more of a book by man that helps the Vatican gain wealth.

[The Doctor]

Who wrote the Bible?

Men, guided by the Holy Spirit to bring God's revelation.

 

Honestly - how many books were written and by whom?

There are 66 books in the standard bible, 39 OT, 27 NT, written by a variety of people, prophets, poets, church leaders, kings, apostles and disciples. There are other contemporary texts written, some are known as apocryphal, some are other 'gospels' written by people around the same time at the synoptic and fourth gospels. These are not in the canon of scripture because they were never recognised as being the inspired Word of God. It's not that some guys just didn't like the look of them and decided not to include them, they were never part of the sacred texts read in synagogues or in early Christian meetings.

 

How many of these made it into the final version (today's version)?

66, 39 OT 27 NT

 

How many of the written texts did not make it into the bible as we know it?

Possibly hundreds, but what's your point? Other people wrote texts and said, "these are sacred", it doesn't make it so. Just because somebody writes a story in The Sun today it doesn't mean we all believe it, it's no different with these things. The books that are in the bible today were books that were always recognised as being significant, inspired. Because of who they were written by, in the main, disciples, apostles and church leaders, letters they sent to churches or to individuals or books they wrote to address particular issues that the church faced.

 

The problem with the Christian faith is that its based on a book that was compiled over hundreds of years and "edited" by the Vatican to show what the Vatican wanted to show. Not a book by God then, more of a book by man that helps the Vatican gain wealth.

 

Much of this just isn't true, the bible wasn't compiled over hundreds of years and the texts as we have them today are pretty much exactly as they were written. We have surviving manuscripts from very soon after the originals were written and partial manuscripts from just a few years. No other ancient texts in existence are as reliable as the bible. If a church had a copy of sacred texts, they were incredibly precious to them, they looked after them, for hundreds of years, so we still have them today.

[The Doctor]

Sorry Doc,

 

But that is quite simply the finest example of circular logic I've ever come across.

 

Why do you believe in god?

 

Just 'cos.

 

Thank you, I'm flattered.

 

The only problem is that I wasn't answering the question why do you believe in God? I was answering the question "Who made God?". A question which doesn't take into account God's nature, so it's not a question that can really be answered. It's on a par with asking "why are hobos models and Nobel prize winners?" fundamentally it's their nature to be pot ugly and thick as two short planks!

[maroonlegions]

Life events shared by Horus and Jesus

 

Stories from the life of Horus had been circulating for centuries before Jesus birth (circa 4 to 7 BCE). If any copying occurred by the writers of the Egyptian or Christian religions, it was the followers of Jesus who incorporated into his biography the myths and legends of Horus, not vice-versa.

 

Author and theologian Tom Harpur studied the works of three authors who have written about ancient Egyptian religion: Godfrey Higgins (1771-1834), Gerald Massey (1828-1907) and Alvin Boyd Kuhn (1880-1963). Harpur incorporated some of their findings into his book "Pagan Christ." He argued that all of the essential ideas of both Judaism and Christianity came primarily from Egyptian religion. "[Author Gerald] Massey discovered nearly two hundred instances of immediate correspondence between the mythical Egyptian material and the allegedly historical Christian writings about Jesus. Horus indeed was the archetypal Pagan Christ." 7

 

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Sponsored link:

 

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Comparison of some life events of Horus and Jesus:

Event Horus Yeshua of Nazareth, a.k.a. Jesus

Conception: By a virgin. There is some doubt about this matter By a virgin. 8

Father: Only begotten son of the God Osiris. Only begotten son of Yehovah (in the form of the Holy Spirit).

Mother: Meri. 9 Miriam (a.k.a. Mary).

Foster father: Seb, (Jo-Seph). 9 Joseph.

Foster father's ancestry: Of royal descent. Of royal descent.

Birth location: In a cave. In a cave or stable.

Annunciation: By an angel to Isis, his mother. By an angel to Miriam, his mother. 8

Birth heralded by: The star Sirius, the morning star. An unidentified "star in the East."

Birth date: Ancient Egyptians paraded a manger and child representing Horus through the streets at the time of the winter solstice (typically DEC-21). Celebrated on DEC-25. The date was chosen to occur on the same date as the birth of Mithra, Dionysus and the Sol Invictus (unconquerable Sun), etc.

Birth announcement: By angels. By angels. 8

Birth witnesses: Shepherds. Shepherds. 8

Later witnesses to birth: Three solar deities. Three wise men. 8

Death threat during infancy: Herut tried to have Horus murdered. Herod tried to have Jesus murdered.

Handling the threat: The God That tells Horus' mother "Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child." An angel tells Jesus' father to: "Arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt."

Rite of passage ritual: Horus came of age with a special ritual, when his eye was restored. Taken by parents to the temple for what is today called a bar mitzvah ritual.

Age at the ritual: 12 12

Break in life history: No data between ages of 12 & 30. No data between ages of 12 & 30.

Baptism location: In the river Eridanus. In the river Jordan.

Age at baptism: 30. 30.

Baptized by: Anup the Baptiser. John the Baptist.

Subsequent fate of the baptiser: Beheaded. Beheaded.

Temptation: Taken from the desert of Amenta up a high mountain by his arch-rival Sut. Sut (a.k.a. Set) was a precursor for the Hebrew Satan. Taken from the desert in Palestine up a high mountain by his arch-rival Satan.

Result of temptation: Horus resists temptation. Jesus resists temptation.

Close followers: Twelve disciples. There is some doubt about this matter as well. Twelve disciples.

Activities: Walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, restored sight to the blind. He "stilled the sea by his power." Walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, restored sight to the blind. He ordered the sea with a "Peace, be still" command.

Raising of the dead: Horus raised Osirus, his dead father, from the grave. 10 Jesus raised Lazarus from the grave.

Location where the resurrection miracle occurred: Anu, an Egyptian city where the rites of the death, burial and resurrection of Horus were enacted annually. 10 Hebrews added their prefix for house ('beth") to "Anu" to produce "Beth-Anu" or the "House of Anu." Since "u" and "y" were interchangeable in antiquity, "Bethanu" became "Bethany," the location mentioned in John 11.

Origin of Lazarus' name in the Gospel of John: Asar was an alternative name for Osirus, Horus' father, who Horus raised from the dead. He was referred to as "the Asar," as a sign of respect. Translated into Hebrew, this is "El-Asar." The Romans added the prefix "us" to indicate a male name, producing "Elasarus." Over time, the "E" was dropped and "s" became "z," producing "Lazarus." 10

Transfigured: On a mountain. On a high mountain.

Key address(es): Sermon on the Mount. Sermon on the Mount; Sermon on the Plain.

Method of death By crucifixion. By crucifixion.

Accompanied by: Two thieves. Two thieves.

Burial In a tomb. In a tomb.

Fate after death: Descended into Hell; resurrected after three days. Descended into Hell; resurrected after about 30 to 38 hours (Friday PM to presumably some time in Sunday AM) covering parts of three days.

Resurrection announced by: Women. Women.

Future: Reign for 1,000 years in the Millennium. Reign for 1,000 years in the Millennium.

 

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Comparison of some characteristics of Horus and Jesus:

Characteristics Horus Yeshua of Nazareth, a.k.a. Jesus

Nature" Regarded as a mythical character. Regarded as a 1st century CE human man-god.

Main role: Savior of humanity. Savior of humanity.

Status: God-man. God-man.

Common portrayal: Virgin Isis holding the infant Horus. Virgin Mary holding the infant Jesus.

Title: KRST, the anointed one. Christ, the anointed one.

Other names: The good shepherd, the lamb of God, the bread of life, the son of man, the Word, the fisher, the winnower. The good shepherd, the lamb of God, the bread of life, the son of man, the Word, the fisher, the winnower.

Zodiac sign: Associated with Pisces, the fish. Associated with Pisces, the fish.

Main symbols: Fish, beetle, the vine, shepherd's crook. Fish, beetle, the vine, the shepherd's crook.

 

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Comparison of some teachings of Horus and Jesus:

Characteristics Horus Yeshua of Nazareth, a.k.a. Jesus

Criteria for salvation at the place of judgment: "I have given bread to the hungry man and water to the thirsty man and clothing to the naked person and a boat to the shipwrecked mariner." 11 "For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me..." Matthew 25:35-36 (KJV).

"I am" statements

bullet "I am Horus in glory...I am the Lord of Light...I am the victorious one...I am the heir of endless time...I, even I, am he that knoweth the paths of heaven." 12

bullet "I am Horus, the Prince of Eternity."

bullet "I am Horus who stepeth onward through eternity...Eternity and everlastingness is my name."

bullet "I am the possessor of bread in Anu. I have bread in heaven with Ra."

 

 

 

bullet "I am the light of the world....I am the way, the truth and the life."

bullet "Before Abraham was, I am"

bullet "Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, and today and forever."

bullet "I am the living bread that came down from heaven."

 

(From the Gospel of John)

 

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Was Horus born of a virgin?:

 

interesting stuff, remember reading that their is comparisons in other acient saviours or sons of god, from Babylon to the Sumerian's (NIMROD) AND Horus THE SON OF OSIRUS who had an arch-enemy called SET as Jesus had Satan to me its just certain learned people incorporating different texts or myths to form new religions and we must not forget the NIGHTS TEMPERS, who got hold of lots of valuable and ancient scripts that were said to hold the TRUE meaning of man and his destiny.

[Cigaro]

Is it possible that "god" is a mass of energy which created a big bang?

 

Cant we all just get along?

[maroonlegions]

eh, NIGHT TEMPLARS

[maroonlegions]

Is it possible that "god" is a mass of energy which created a big bang?

 

Cant we all just get along?

 

OR ONE MIGHTY BIG ****.

[Das Root]

Surely though it's things are as I see them.

 

For me the truth is that there is a God, there's no question of this for me. I don't think I'm seeing things wrongly or denying the obvious, to me the existence of God is obvious.

 

But, however you look at to say don't worry, enjoy life is empty and pointless because it offers nothing, no comfort, no hope, no relief.

 

If I'm poor, if I'm mourning, if I'm lonely, how can I just not worry and enjoy life? How is this message making any difference to anyone?

 

 

 

If you are poor or lonely, where is God then? He's not going to hand you a tenner or buy you a pint. That's what friends and family, or Facebook are for. God won't do much for you until yer deid. And only if you've been a good boy.

 

Enjoy life now, and least you know that's real. God's a 50/50.

 

And what about Buddha, Allah etc, are they are bullsh*t or just the same guy with a different hat on?

 

Too many bad things are done in the name of religion, by too many bad people.

 

Sooner we all embrace the warmth and happiness found in Star Trek the better.

 

Break out the ears people, Spock is love

[deesidejambo]

eh, NIGHT TEMPLARS

 

Keep trying. You will get it right eventually.

[maroonlegions]

Keep trying. You will get it right eventually.

 

 

 

'An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody will see it.' - Mahatma Gandhi

[The Doctor]

If you are poor or lonely, where is God then? He's not going to hand you a tenner or buy you a pint. That's what friends and family, or Facebook are for. God won't do much for you until yer deid. And only if you've been a good boy.

 

Enjoy life now, and least you know that's real. God's a 50/50.

 

 

If you're poor or lonely come and have lunch with me, for free today.

http://www.grassmarketmission.org

We're having sausage casserole, tuna pasta bake, homemade soup, sandwiches, cakes (I just ate one of the donuts!), ice cream, smoothies, tea and coffee. Honestly you'd be welcome!

 

I expect about 80 poor and lonely people to be having lunch at the same time, we're open from 1-4pm and you can stay as long as you like.

 

This (amongst many other things) is what God is doing for poor and lonely people in Edinburgh today. (Okay, I'm doing it, but God asked me to, on His behalf)

[maroonlegions]

Knights Templers

The Knights Templar is a Christian-oriented fraternal organization that was founded in the 11th century. Originally, the Knights Templar were laymen who ...

http://www.islipmasons.org/knights_templers.htm - 15k, there we go eh, fecking hangover.

[maroonlegions]

If you're poor or lonely come and have lunch with me, for free today.

http://www.grassmarketmission.org

We're having sausage casserole, tuna pasta bake, homemade soup, sandwiches, cakes (I just ate one of the donuts!), ice cream, smoothies, tea and coffee. Honestly you'd be welcome!

 

I expect about 80 poor and lonely people to be having lunch at the same time, we're open from 1-4pm and you can stay as long as you like.

 

This (amongst many other things) is what God is doing for poor and lonely people in Edinburgh today. (Okay, I'm doing it, but God asked me to, on His behalf)

ask him/her about thoughts on shape shifters is the Satan responsible.

[deesidejambo]

If you're poor or lonely come and have lunch with me, for free today.

http://www.grassmarketmission.org

We're having sausage casserole, tuna pasta bake, homemade soup, sandwiches, cakes (I just ate one of the donuts!), ice cream, smoothies, tea and coffee. Honestly you'd be welcome!

 

I expect about 80 poor and lonely people to be having lunch at the same time, we're open from 1-4pm and you can stay as long as you like.

 

This (amongst many other things) is what God is doing for poor and lonely people in Edinburgh today. (Okay, I'm doing it, but God asked me to, on His behalf)

 

OK if God asked you to do it, can you ask him one in return? 7-0 against the Vermin in the New Year Derby will be sufficient.

[maroonlegions]

talking about feeding the poor these chaps do also,

 

 

 

Meridian Lodge No. 691

592 Main Street, Islip, NY 11751 (631) 581-1016

 

Home

Become A Mason

Famous Masons

Freemasons Today

Freemason History

Knights Templers

Child ID Program

Shriners

Lodge Rental

About us

Other Lodges

 

 

 

Purpose and Activities of the Knights Templar Organization

 

 

Integrity, Obedience, Courage

 

The Knights Templar is a Christian-oriented fraternal organization that was founded in the 11th century. Originally, the Knights Templar were laymen who protected and defended Christians traveling to Jerusalem. These men took vows of poverty, chastity and obedience, and were renowned for their fierceness and courage in battle.

 

Today, the Knights Templar display their courage and goodwill in other ways. They organize fund-raising activities such as breakfasts, dinners, dances, and flea markets.:eek: They support Masonic-related youth groups and they raise millions of dollars for medical research and educational assistance.

 

Currently, Templar membership consists of people from all walks of life, including doctors, lawyers, clergy, businessmen and entertainment personalities, all of whom profess a belief in the Christian Religion.

 

Masonic Connection ;)

[The Doctor]

OK if God asked you to do it, can you ask him one in return? 7-0 against the Vermin in the New Year Derby will be sufficient.

 

Like I've never tried that one before!

 

I ask, He answers. Unfortunately He says no, they've not to be humiliated any further apparently, they suffer enough.

[maroonlegions]

Like I've never tried that one before!

 

I ask, He answers. Unfortunately He says no, they've not to be humiliated any further apparently, they suffer enough.

 

what about LOTTERY NUMBERS:):dribble:

[BigC]

Thank you, I'm flattered.

 

The only problem is that I wasn't answering the question why do you believe in God? I was answering the question "Who made God?". A question which doesn't take into account God's nature, so it's not a question that can really be answered. It's on a par with asking "why are hobos models and Nobel prize winners?" fundamentally it's their nature to be pot ugly and thick as two short planks!

 

So you accept that god can just appear. He can just be, He just is - despite no physical evidence.

 

But you cannot accept that that is the case for humans? We just are. Despite mountains of physical evidence that that is the case.

 

By saying that the only explanation for complex beings is an even more complex one, then it is you who created the need for the question of who created God?

 

And if the only answer you can offer up is "He just is" then you need to rationally explain how you can ignore the evidence for that being the case for humans, therefore negating the need for a God.

 

Ultimately it all comes back to the initial spark - how did the first single cell organism appear?

 

The answer is, we don't know.

 

If you would like people to believe that "God did it", you have to come up with a stronger reason than "Because I just know he exists".

 

That is where faith falls flat on it's face for me.

[spud]

Ultimately it all comes back to the initial spark - how did the first single cell organism appear?

 

The answer is, we don't know.

 

If you would like people to believe that "God did it", you have to come up with a stronger reason than "Because I just know he exists".

 

That is where faith falls flat on it's face for me.

 

Totally agree, but I would go further. There are thousands of scientists investigating the beginnings of life, the beginnings of the universe. All of them are trying to further mankind?s knowledge.

 

But the religious answer to everything; god made it. Its just utter laziness, its just abrogating the responsibility for your own life.

 

My brother-in-law is very religious. He is also very unemployed. Does he look for a job? No. He prays for a job. Everyday for hours he prays that god will find/give him a job and he has done this for two years. He moved in with his OAP mother, who feeds and clothes him. She can?t afford it and is getting into more and more debt. He gets fed and thinks this is a gift from god. I hate the bastarrrrrrd.

[Bigsmak]

If you're poor or lonely come and have lunch with me, for free today.

http://www.grassmarketmission.org

We're having sausage casserole, tuna pasta bake, homemade soup, sandwiches, cakes (I just ate one of the donuts!), ice cream, smoothies, tea and coffee. Honestly you'd be welcome!

 

I expect about 80 poor and lonely people to be having lunch at the same time, we're open from 1-4pm and you can stay as long as you like.

 

This (amongst many other things) is what God is doing for poor and lonely people in Edinburgh today. (Okay, I'm doing it, but God asked me to, on His behalf)

 

Your a good Guy Doc....

 

[Das Root]

If you're poor or lonely come and have lunch with me, for free today.

www.grassmarketmission.org

We're having sausage casserole, tuna pasta bake, homemade soup, sandwiches, cakes (I just ate one of the donuts!), ice cream, smoothies, tea and coffee. Honestly you'd be welcome!

 

I expect about 80 poor and lonely people to be having lunch at the same time, we're open from 1-4pm and you can stay as long as you like.

 

This (amongst many other things) is what God is doing for poor and lonely people in Edinburgh today. (Okay, I'm doing it, but God asked me to, on His behalf)

 

 

 

Heh heh, no He didn't, it's was just a big ol' excuse to get the free cake out

[The Doctor]

Heh heh, no He didn't, it's was just a big ol' excuse to get the free cake out

 

It's awfy good cake!

 

I'd love to write more, but I'm run off my feet.

 

Maybe tonight...

[maroonlegions]

sciTotally agree, but I would go further. There are thousands of sentists investigating the beginnings of life, the beginnings of the universe. All of them are trying to further mankind?s knowledge.

 

But the religious answer to everything; god made it. Its just utter laziness, its just abrogating the responsibility for your own life.

 

My brother-in-law is very religious. He is also very unemployed. Does he look for a job? No. He prays for a job. Everyday for hours he prays that god will find/give him a job and he has done this for two years. He moved in with his OAP mother, who feeds and clothes him. She can?t afford it and is getting into more and more debt. He gets fed and thinks this is a gift from god. I hate the bastarrrrrrd.

 

 

 

 

 

scientists are now even beginning to question the big bang theory , the point of who made god is a never ending merry go round, to have a beginning and even end you have to have TIME , now if there is a condition or even place were time DOES NOT exist then it is possible that there was never a beginning so god or if we are all god ALWAYS EXISTED.

[Craigieboy]

In my experience, people with faith, ALWAYS have a counter argument that satisfies themselves & themselves only.

 

Everyone else thinks the counter argument is nothing more than complete ****ing lunacy. Selective reasoning.

 

Theres none so blind as those who cannot see.

 

.

[Sheriff Fatman]

The three wise men bearing gifts etc.

 

It's such a shame that the bible never mentions the number or sex of the Magi (not wise) that bore gifts.

 

So what we have is

 

Three - who knows?

Wise - who knows?

Men - who knows?

 

bore gifts - wow, nobody ever gives gifts to a newly born child.

 

I bet you think that Jesus was born in a stable surrounded by animals too.

[Craig R]

This (amongst many other things) is what God is doing for poor and lonely people in Edinburgh today. (Okay, I'm doing it, but God asked me to, on His behalf)

 

Strange, you would think a God who was capable of rattling a planet together in 7 days could sort out their problems himself. He's getting lazy in his old age.

[deesidejambo]

Strange, you would think a God who was capable of rattling a planet together in 7 days could sort out their problems himself. He's getting lazy in his old age.

 

It only took him 6 days. On the seventh he just sat about doing nothing. Or maybe he went to B&Q.

[IronJambo]

i'm thinking that they must be "Agnostic" rather than "Atheist" as an atheist would know that there wasn't a god, rather than think there probably wasn't one

[The Doctor]

So you accept that god can just appear. He can just be, He just is - despite no physical evidence.

No, that suggests that there was a time when God wasn't, God has always been and will always be. Physical evidence? The universe, all of it.

 

But you cannot accept that that is the case for humans? We just are. Despite mountains of physical evidence that that is the case.

I've never said that, evolution doesn't preclude a creator.

 

By saying that the only explanation for complex beings is an even more complex one, then it is you who created the need for the question of who created God?

I never said that, I'm not a creationist, these are two different arguments.

 

And if the only answer you can offer up is "He just is" then you need to rationally explain how you can ignore the evidence for that being the case for humans, therefore negating the need for a God.

 

Ultimately it all comes back to the initial spark - how did the first single cell organism appear?

 

The answer is, we don't know.

I thought there was mountains of physical evidence?

 

If you would like people to believe that "God did it", you have to come up with a stronger reason than "Because I just know he exists".

 

That is where faith falls flat on it's face for me.

 

I'm not looking for people to believe that God did it, I'm a Christian because I believe that God not only exists but loves me enough to want a relationship with me. God has revealed Himself to me in various ways, generally through creation and through the moral law, but this isn't enough for mankind to believe because our sin hides God from us. There needs to be a specific revelation through the bible, the person of Christ and the Holy Spirit.

 

God needs to reveal Himself to us, because He is so holy and 'above' man that we could never find Him by our own efforts, our sin gets in the way, even of admitting His existence.

 

I know that this will be anathema to most of you (at least the vocal majority), but it's Christian theology, it's what Christians believe. I also understand that it's a circular argument, you can't accept that there's a God because your sin gets in the way and you're sinful so you can't see God.

 

But God says, "Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me". Revelation 3:20

 

(I was going to post a picture of William Holman Hunt's painting depicting this image, but it's a bit religious!)