Jamboelite Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 I am in the position of having my misses owning her house which she got at a fairly decent amount 3years ago and im waiting as Coppercrutch says to the point where a decent hard working person can afford a nice house on a reasonable salary. I aint looking till this time next year as i think the market would have crashed enough by then hopefully buy a nice place and rent out hers and then bobs your uncle 2 properties with one paying for itself on a nice rental. Thats the plan thank god i never bought earlier this year before it all went breast up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munch Posted October 15, 2008 Author Share Posted October 15, 2008 I am in the position of having my misses owning her house which she got at a fairly decent amount years ago and I'm waiting as Copper crutch says to the point where a decent hard working person can afford a nice house on a reasonable salary. I ain't looking till this time next year as i think the market would have crashed enough by then hopefully buy a nice place and rent out hers and then bobs your uncle 2 properties with one paying for itself on a nice rental. Thats the plan thank god i never bought earlier this year before it all went breast up. You got a plan, i like it, Armageddon is on the way with the mother of all recessions about to hit us. Unless Brown and Darling can save us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Where have i said its sad. Got an e mail today from friends moving to Edinburgh and they have just bought a 2 Bedroom flat at the Bond Building Conversion building on Breadalbane St ?160,000. http://www.rightmove.co.uk/action/SoldPricesAction?eventSubmit_doGetresults=1&outcode=EH6&s_lo=EH6+5JJ&country=SCO&incode=5JJ&type=0&startyear=-2&x=98&y=15 You put a sad face when talking about my predictions !! 2 bed flat near Leith - 160k... Maybe seems good value compared to last year. However it is almost certain to look mighty expensive compared to next year. Never understood why people move to a different place and buy a place immediately ? I take it they know the area etc.. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 I am in the position of having my misses owning her house which she got at a fairly decent amount 3years ago and im waiting as Coppercrutch says to the point where a decent hard working person can afford a nice house on a reasonable salary. I aint looking till this time next year as i think the market would have crashed enough by then hopefully buy a nice place and rent out hers and then bobs your uncle 2 properties with one paying for itself on a nice rental. Thats the plan thank god i never bought earlier this year before it all went breast up. I am going to be nosey if you don't mind Does your bird own her place outright ? If not can I ask why you want to have 2 houses with a load of debt on each ? Would you not be better aiming to pay one off ASAP and being totally debt free ? No interest to bank. Total freedom. No debt slavery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambos are go! Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Noticed that figures showed Edinburgh prices had only dropped 4% in the last year. Can I ask a question. If house prices were to drop 30-50% would it not be prudent to try and reach new terms with someone threatened with repossession( who owed say 90% of the value) rather than selling at a huge loss? Particularly with the Government on the Board who would have to pick up pieces in terms of welfare benefits to homeless families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micole Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Work in the building trade just heard that Gregor Shore has gone down, sorry if this has already been posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe kickass2 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Don't want to be the optimist here, but where is the evidence of a drop in prices in the housing market in Edinburgh? Developments and redevelopments are a completely different market. It has ground to a trickle in terms of turnover but I would be interested to see how much flats in Marchmont or detached houses in the Murrays have fallen, if any. I'm not talking anecdotal evidence but hard facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambos are go! Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Don't want to be the optimist here, but where is the evidence of a drop in prices in the housing market in Edinburgh? Developments and redevelopments are a completely different market. It has ground to a trickle in terms of turnover but I would be interested to see how much flats in Marchmont or detached houses in the Murrays have fallen, if any. I'm not talking anecdotal evidence but hard facts As I've said earlier heard on the Telly yesterday that Edinburgh prices had fallen only 4% with the city centre Hardest hit at around 6%. Think Dalry was above 4% and Marchmount below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambos are go! Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Don't want to be the optimist here, but where is the evidence of a drop in prices in the housing market in Edinburgh? Developments and redevelopments are a completely different market. It has ground to a trickle in terms of turnover but I would be interested to see how much flats in Marchmont or detached houses in the Murrays have fallen, if any. I'm not talking anecdotal evidence but hard facts As I've said earlier heard on the Telly yesterday that Edinburgh prices had fallen only 4% with the city centre Hardest hit at around 6%. Think Dalry was above 4% and Marchmount below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe kickass2 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 As I've said earlier heard on the Telly yesterday that Edinburgh prices had fallen only 4% with the city centre Hardest hit at around 6%. Think Dalry was above 4% and Marchmount below. Sorry j a g but didn't read every post. Not quite 50% plunges yet then. So for a 120k flat thats an average 5k hit from the high tidemark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 If you want to sell in Edinburgh prices have fallen, on average, about 10-15% already. Of course many simply cannot sell and a massive number of people are 'just renting out instead' as was predicted ages ago. They seemingly think this will all justblow over.. Figures when it comes to property are always lagging due to the time it takes transactions to come through and be registered. Expect a massive fall in the land registry figures that come through in Q3 2009. These will compare to the peak figures of 2007. They have a huge lag though. Probably close to 9 months…. A bit sooner expect a massive fall in ESPC figures for Q2 2009. These will be compared to Q2 2008 where the average sale price was 233k. Already we are nearing an average of 200k. We can maybe expect 180k by then. We could be seeing a fall in Edinburgh YOY of close to 25%.... As for anecdotals take your pick. I know many people who simply cant sell as they refuse to lower their price. I know a fair few who have sold in Gorgie Dalry recently for about 15% lower than peak. My own parents house took a year to sell and was sold for 17% below valuation. The house I am living in is a 'rent it out instead' as the people simply couldn't sell it. Edinburgh's golden era is over IMO. For jobs and house prices. Few articles in the Scotsman/EN today : The one about Gregor shore http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/latestnews/Luxury-builder-goes-to-the.4596475.jp One about the numebr of rental properties on the market soaring, wow who could have predicted that… http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/latestnews/City-flat-rentals-soar-as.4597902.jp One about the council planning to give people mortgages that cant get then on the normal market: http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Council-unveils-plan-to-help.4597858.jp Good plan that eh. Use taxpayers money to give loans to people that cant get them from normal lenders. Do these IDIOTS not watch the news. Do they not realise this is exactly what caused all this mess in the first place. Nice - our council is about to become a sub prime lender. The stupidity is staggering. I do fear for this City. I think in 5 years it will be a real dump. Combined with the trams fiasco, financial mess, housing crash and tourism slump we are ****ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 I'm nearly on the same page as you Coppercrutch. My question is - what "industries" does Edinburgh have beyond finance and tourism. It seems to me the best case for the finance sector in Edinburgh is that RBS and HBOS remain "independent" and retain HQs here, and that there is "just" a swathe of redundancies. The worst case appears to be that Edinburgh loses the HQs of both As I see it the latter is more likely. You have general consolidation ongoing in any even, and you now have the major shareholder in both keen to hold on to those shares for as little time as possible, and with a duty to sell out and get taxpayers money back, at a higher priority than worrying about if that means a relocation of HQ So, what impact on Edinburgh does the removal of these HQs have moving forward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 I'm nearly on the same page as you Coppercrutch. My question is - what "industries" does Edinburgh have beyond finance and tourism. It seems to me the best case for the finance sector in Edinburgh is that RBS and HBOS remain "independent" and retain HQs here, and that there is "just" a swathe of redundancies. The worst case appears to be that Edinburgh loses the HQs of both As I see it the latter is more likely. You have general consolidation ongoing in any even, and you now have the major shareholder in both keen to hold on to those shares for as little time as possible, and with a duty to sell out and get taxpayers money back, at a higher priority than worrying about if that means a relocation of HQ So, what impact on Edinburgh does the removal of these HQs have moving forward? That is what I am thinking. In that story they say Edinburgh is 'diversifying'[/]. What a load of nonsense. All we have heard, even up until a few months ago, was that Edinburgh was a 'Financial Centre' etc.. Why has nobody mentioned we are 'diversifying' until now ? Very convenient and mainly bollocks IMO. The sheer number of people I know who work in either the financial, building or tourism sector is crazy. I imagine most people are the same ? So apart from Finances what do we have ? Tourism - not doing well. Building - Nothing needs to be said. Anything else of note ? Not really apart from the public sector. As for these 2 HQ's being shifted elsewhere it all depends on the jobs being lost as a result. Maybe a lot of the operations would still remain here whilst the offical HQ moved away. Who knows. I remember we had a thread a few months ago about the end of Edinburgh's 'golden' age. I will have a look for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambos are go! Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 If you want to sell in Edinburgh prices have fallen, on average, about 10-15% already. Of course many simply cannot sell and a massive number of people are 'just renting out instead' as was predicted ages ago. They seemingly think this will all justblow over.. Figures when it comes to property are always lagging due to the time it takes transactions to come through and be registered. Expect a massive fall in the land registry figures that come through in Q3 2009. These will compare to the peak figures of 2007. They have a huge lag though. Probably close to 9 months?. A bit sooner expect a massive fall in ESPC figures for Q2 2009. These will be compared to Q2 2008 where the average sale price was 233k. Already we are nearing an average of 200k. We can maybe expect 180k by then. We could be seeing a fall in Edinburgh YOY of close to 25%.... As for anecdotals take your pick. I know many people who simply cant sell as they refuse to lower their price. I know a fair few who have sold in Gorgie Dalry recently for about 15% lower than peak. My own parents house took a year to sell and was sold for 17% below valuation. The house I am living in is a 'rent it out instead' as the people simply couldn't sell it. Edinburgh's golden era is over IMO. For jobs and house prices. Few articles in the Scotsman/EN today : The one about Gregor shore http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/latestnews/Luxury-builder-goes-to-the.4596475.jp One about the numebr of rental properties on the market soaring, wow who could have predicted that? http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/latestnews/City-flat-rentals-soar-as.4597902.jp One about the council planning to give people mortgages that cant get then on the normal market: http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Council-unveils-plan-to-help.4597858.jp Good plan that eh. Use taxpayers money to give loans to people that cant get them from normal lenders. Do these IDIOTS not watch the news. Do they not realise this is exactly what caused all this mess in the first place. Nice - our council is about to become a sub prime lender. The stupidity is staggering. I do fear for this City. I think in 5 years it will be a real dump. Combined with the trams fiasco, financial mess, housing crash and tourism slump we are ****ed. [/QUOTE] I remember at the time of 'Glasgows Miles Better' when folk were saying Edinburgh was going down the tubes. Has not quite turned out like that. Form is temporary but class is permanent as they say. Edinburgh is a great place to live and work and the world knows it. CC excepted (who would accept abject poverty throughout the city so long as house prices fell). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munch Posted October 16, 2008 Author Share Posted October 16, 2008 That is what I am thinking. In that story they say Edinburgh is 'diversifying'[/]. What a load of nonsense. All we have heard, even up until a few months ago, was that Edinburgh was a 'Financial Centre' etc.. Why has nobody mentioned we are 'diversifying' until now ? Very convenient and mainly bollocks IMO. The sheer number of people I know who work in either the financial, building or tourism sector is crazy. I imagine most people are the same ? So apart from Finances what do we have ? Tourism - not doing well. Building - Nothing needs to be said. Anything else of note ? Not really apart from the public sector. As for these 2 HQ's being shifted elsewhere it all depends on the jobs being lost as a result. Maybe a lot of the operations would still remain here whilst the official HQ moved away. Who knows. I remember we had a thread a few months ago about the end of Edinburgh's 'golden' age. I will have a look for it. Thats the record been broken today at the Countrywide property Auction 5/10 Western HarbourMidway sold for ( drum roll ) 135k. Sold new for 260k 2 years ago thats a whooping 50% drop in value in 2 years with the builder going belly up today this wont help matters. How low can they go that is the question ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Thats the record been broken today at the Countrywide property Auction 5/10 Western HarbourMidway sold for ( drum roll ) 135k. Sold new for 260k 2 years ago thats a whooping 50% drop in value in 2 years with the builder going belly up today this wont help matters. How low can they go that is the question ? So some of my predictions are coming true already. Before I expected actually. Suppose that means I can stop spraffing on about it now...... Nah !! What else would I do !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedp6873 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 So some of my predictions are coming true already. Before I expected actually. Suppose that means I can stop spraffing on about it now...... Nah !! What else would I do !!! Just been on the news that the developers down there have went in to administration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munch Posted October 16, 2008 Author Share Posted October 16, 2008 So some of my predictions are coming true already. Before I expected actually. Suppose that means I can stop spraffing on about it now...... Nah !! What else would I do !!! What would you be thinking if you had bought a shiney new one 2 years ago for 260k. mmm lets roll back the clock and get in the head of Mr Aircraft pilot, as he signed the forms in the sales office, and the speel he had been spun by the sales team. 1. A Shinny new waterfront flat in a pristine development with lovely sea views. 2. Capital growth at around 5% per annum we are anticipating sir, so in 2 years your flat will be worth nearer 300k, good job you got in quick, the next phase to be released prices will start at 280 for a 2 bed like yours. 3. With all the new amenities and just think when the trams are connected down here you could be looking at 350k for a flat like this in 2008. Yip Mr Aircraft pilot who got a 95% mortgage on a property worth 260k, he has borrowings due at 247k to the bank on a property worth 260k and thats conservative, as next phase its 280. yip ill bet he slept like a baby laughing himself too sleep at his sound investment, after all property doubles in value every ten years ,so in 2118 it will be worth 520k:eek: Roll forward 2 years this bloke who flew aircrafts for XL airlines needs a quick sale as he lost his job. He asks the local estate agent for a value, expecting 300k plus:p then wait for it ( Drum Roll ) id say in the current market your property is worth ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY FIVE GRAND. WTF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Some more info that you may be interested in JambsRBarry. Seriously I should charge for this !! I bet a certain DJ wishes he had taken my advice 2 years ago. Search for 2 bed properties (Mostly flats) in Edinburgh area. LETTING WEB: 7 April 2008: ?600-?700 = 265 flats ?700-?800 = 124 flats ?800-?900 = 47 flats 436 total 12 July 2008: ?600-?700 = 265 flats ?700-?800 = 159 flats ?800-?900 = 64 flats 492 total 30 Aug 2008: ?600-?700 = 248 flats ?700-?800 =146 flats ?800-?900 = 55 flats 449 total 22 Sep 2008 ?600-?700 = 249 flats ?700-?800 = 147 flats ?800-?900 = 55 flats 451 total 17 Oct 2008 ?600-?700 = 298 flats ?700-?800 = 150 flats ?800-?900 = 57 flats 505 Total -------------------------------------------------------------- CITYLETS: 7 April 2008: ?600-?700 2 bed in Edinburgh = 241 ?700-?800 2 bed In Edinburgh = 141 ?800-?900 2 bed in Edinburgh = 78 460 Total 12 Jul 2008: ?600-?700 2 bed in Edinburgh = 271 ?700-?800 2 bed In Edinburgh = 198 ?800-?900 2 bed in Edinburgh = 121 590 Total 30 Aug 2008: ?600-?700 2 bed in Edinburgh = 265 ?700-?800 2 bed In Edinburgh = 203 ?800-?900 2 bed in Edinburgh = 141 608 Total 22 Sep 2008 ?600-?700 = 252 ?700-?800 = 206 ?800-?900 = 133 591 Total 17 Oct 2008 ?600-?700 = 311 ?700-?800 = 228 ?800-?900 = 138 677 Total Fairly massive increase in rental availability for 2 bedders in Edinburgh. Citylets - 47% increase since April. LettingWeb - 16% increase since April Ouch. Those property investors better be in it for the long run. They don't have a choice anymore. And by long run I mean the LONG run... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munch Posted October 17, 2008 Author Share Posted October 17, 2008 Some more info that you may be interested in JambsRBarry. Seriously I should charge for this !! I bet a certain DJ wishes he had taken my advice 2 years ago. Search for 2 bed properties (Mostly flats) in Edinburgh area. LETTING WEB: 7 April 2008: ?600-?700 = 265 flats ?700-?800 = 124 flats ?800-?900 = 47 flats 436 total 12 July 2008: ?600-?700 = 265 flats ?700-?800 = 159 flats ?800-?900 = 64 flats 492 total 30 Aug 2008: ?600-?700 = 248 flats ?700-?800 =146 flats ?800-?900 = 55 flats 449 total 22 Sep 2008 ?600-?700 = 249 flats ?700-?800 = 147 flats ?800-?900 = 55 flats 451 total 17 Oct 2008 ?600-?700 = 298 flats ?700-?800 = 150 flats ?800-?900 = 57 flats 505 Total -------------------------------------------------------------- CITYLETS: 7 April 2008: ?600-?700 2 bed in Edinburgh = 241 ?700-?800 2 bed In Edinburgh = 141 ?800-?900 2 bed in Edinburgh = 78 460 Total 12 Jul 2008: ?600-?700 2 bed in Edinburgh = 271 ?700-?800 2 bed In Edinburgh = 198 ?800-?900 2 bed in Edinburgh = 121 590 Total 30 Aug 2008: ?600-?700 2 bed in Edinburgh = 265 ?700-?800 2 bed In Edinburgh = 203 ?800-?900 2 bed in Edinburgh = 141 608 Total 22 Sep 2008 ?600-?700 = 252 ?700-?800 = 206 ?800-?900 = 133 591 Total 17 Oct 2008 ?600-?700 = 311 ?700-?800 = 228 ?800-?900 = 138 677 Total Fairly massive increase in rental availability for 2 bedders in Edinburgh. Citylets - 47% increase since April. LettingWeb - 16% increase since April Ouch. Those property investors better be in it for the long run. They don't have a choice anymore. And by long run I mean the LONG run... A Marathon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flecktimus Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Thats the record been broken today at the Countrywide property Auction 5/10 Western HarbourMidway sold for ( drum roll ) 135k. Sold new for 260k 2 years ago thats a whooping 50% drop in value in 2 years with the builder going belly up today this wont help matters. How low can they go that is the question ? Hate to be pedantic but it was 140K http://www.countrywidepropertyauctions.co.uk/media/Results-Scotland1-Oct08.pdf We have got to make CC fight for every % point:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munch Posted October 17, 2008 Author Share Posted October 17, 2008 Hate to be pedantic but it was 140K http://www.countrywidepropertyauctions.co.uk/media/Results-Scotland1-Oct08.pdf We have got to make CC fight for every % point:) Its just splitting hairs in the grand scheme of things, i got told a rather disturbing story about an aircraft pilot who bought one down there in 2005 ( off plan) for 265k for a 2 bed in the same block that one sold yesterday for 140k. He was told at the time that the price 265k was a bargain as the next phase to be released prices would start at 280k, he was told with the capital growth in the city running at 5% he would have a property worth in excess of 300k in a short period of time, and also to ponder the fact that as prices tend to double in value every ten years rest assured he would have a house worth in excess of 500k in under 10 years. He gleefully signed the missives, and with the assistance of a sub prime mortgage he got a 95% mortgage on the flat. So with a borrowing of 251k he dived in, safe and secure in his aircrafts pilot job, and with a property he was told would be worth in excess of half a million pounds within ten years NICE PLAN:eek: Wind forward to 2008, he lost his job due to XL Airlines going belly up:mad: No this is where the toilet hits the fan, he got a valuation from the local remax cowboy, who confidently told him your property will fetch today on the open market ( drum roll ) CIRCA 150K ( ON A GOOD DAY THAT IS SIR) WTF If he sells it for that he is out of pocket by 100k:p This is his options. 1. Liquidize all his assets for as much cash as possible and get a one way ticket to ti-eland. 2. Tie weights to his feet and chuck himself into grunton harbor. 3. Pay the 100k ( if he has it) and walk away. 4. Get himself one of these Protected deed trust things write of all the debt and rent a house for 5 years, then its a clean slate, but at least the lender cant get a bolt from him. I you were him, Cruthster what would you do ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flecktimus Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Its just splitting hairs in the grand scheme of things, i got told a rather disturbing story about an aircraft pilot who bought one down there in 2005 ( off plan) for 265k for a 2 bed in the same block that one sold yesterday for 140k. He was told at the time that the price 265k was a bargain as the next phase to be released prices would start at 280k, he was told with the capital growth in the city running at 5% he would have a property worth in excess of 300k in a short period of time, and also to ponder the fact that as prices tend to double in value every ten years rest assured he would have a house worth in excess of 500k in under 10 years. He gleefully signed the missives, and with the assistance of a sub prime mortgage he got a 95% mortgage on the flat. So with a borrowing of 251k he dived in, safe and secure in his aircrafts pilot job, and with a property he was told would be worth in excess of half a million pounds within ten years NICE PLAN:eek: Wind forward to 2008, he lost his job due to XL Airlines going belly up:mad: No this is where the toilet hits the fan, he got a valuation from the local remax cowboy, who confidently told him your property will fetch today on the open market ( drum roll ) CIRCA 150K ( ON A GOOD DAY THAT IS SIR) WTF If he sells it for that he is out of pocket by 100k:p This is his options. 1. Liquidize all his assets for as much cash as possible and get a one way ticket to ti-eland. 2. Tie weights to his feet and chuck himself into grunton harbor. 3. Pay the 100k ( if he has it) and walk away. 4. Get himself one of these Protected deed trust things write of all the debt and rent a house for 5 years, then its a clean slate, but at least the lender cant get a bolt from him. I you were him, Cruthster what would you do ? Seen it all before in the late 80s.People where going into the building societies and just handing there house keys over. The thing is this is the first time Edinburgh has had to face up to a collapsing housing market, so we will just have to wait and see how people cope with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munch Posted October 17, 2008 Author Share Posted October 17, 2008 Seen it all before in the late 80s.People where going into the building societies and just handing there house keys over. The thing is this is the first time Edinburgh has had to face up to a collapsing housing market, so we will just have to wait and see how people cope with it. In all seriousness what can a guy like this do, he has been conned into buying a property way above its value, its the developers who are responsible greedy developers who are reaping what they sowed now. There must be hundreds of people who are in the same situation and who are about to be living in a council estate or at least 65% of the area will be council owned ( the new wester hailes ) So as they gleefully demolish waster hailes, they open up grunton harbor to all the unemployed, and homeless people, and dump them at Granto Harbor. How long before it becomes a ghetto, and as for the house prices once the council take over, forget it they will be UN sell able at any price even 20k wont buy one, in a drug infested ghetto. As for walking the streets down there, in a few years you'd only drive by the place in an armored car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Whittaker's Tache Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 I know a client of mine who has bought one at Platinum Point Its a lovely flat with crackin views over the Forth but I wouldnt take it for ?100k There's nowt round about there unless you want chain shops or restaurants Planners seem to have their eyes closed when it comes to these developments, there's no character, no community, nowt. Why not throw in a few shops, some socially affordable housing, maybe a unit that could be opened as a bar or coffee shop. Make it an interesting place to live. Theres no focus for the whole development just an endless warren of shiny new flats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 I know a client of mine who has bought one at Platinum Point Its a lovely flat with crackin views over the Forth but I wouldnt take it for ?100k There's nowt round about there unless you want chain shops or restaurants Planners seem to have their eyes closed when it comes to these developments, there's no character, no community, nowt. Why not throw in a few shops, some socially affordable housing, maybe a unit that could be opened as a bar or coffee shop. Make it an interesting place to live. Theres no focus for the whole development just an endless warren of shiny new flats There is a wee coffee shop less than five minutes walk away, there is the bar at the Brewers Fayre about five minutes walk away, the coffee shop sells a few of the sort of essentials you would like to pick up ie, papers, juice, bread, milk, oh, and there is a big 24 hour ASDA due to open in two weeks time. There is due to be socially affordable housing very soon, with the Barratt development about to finish and the council having plans for areas down past the FM development, and opposite the park they are building. As for community, how does one install a community? I do love it when the ignorant opine with such hollow authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munch Posted October 18, 2008 Author Share Posted October 18, 2008 There is a wee coffee shop less than five minutes walk away, there is the bar at the Brewers Fayre about five minutes walk away, the coffee shop sells a few of the sort of essentials you would like to pick up ie, papers, juice, bread, milk, oh, and there is a big 24 hour ASDA due to open in two weeks time. There is due to be socially affordable housing very soon, with the Barratt development about to finish and the council having plans for areas down past the FM development, and opposite the park they are building. As for community, how does one install a community? I do love it when the ignorant opine with such hollow authority. The terminal shopping centre is very near as well only a short walk away, and it is nice in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Loverman Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 I know a client of mine who has bought one at Platinum Point Its a lovely flat with crackin views over the Forth but I wouldnt take it for ?100k There's nowt round about there unless you want chain shops or restaurants Planners seem to have their eyes closed when it comes to these developments, there's no character, no community, nowt. Why not throw in a few shops, some socially affordable housing, maybe a unit that could be opened as a bar or coffee shop. Make it an interesting place to live. Theres no focus for the whole development just an endless warren of shiny new flats There is a wee coffee shop less than five minutes walk away, there is the bar at the Brewers Fayre about five minutes walk away, the coffee shop sells a few of the sort of essentials you would like to pick up ie, papers, juice, bread, milk, oh, and there is a big 24 hour ASDA due to open in two weeks time. There is due to be socially affordable housing very soon, with the Barratt development about to finish and the council having plans for areas down past the FM development, and opposite the park they are building. As for community, how does one install a community? I do love it when the ignorant opine with such hollow authority. Owned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 4. Get himself one of these Protected deed trust things write of all the debt and rent a house for 5 years, then its a clean slate, but at least the lender cant get a bolt from him. I have raised this point before. At the moment I think bankruptcy and all that is cleaned away after 5 years ? However we are entering a period of extreme risk aversion. I imagine anyone hoping to get away with it Scot free in 5 years may have a rude awakening. I think many of these people won't get credit again in any large amount. All the FSA,banks have to do it change their rules/regulations. I think that will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 I know a client of mine who has bought one at Platinum Point Its a lovely flat with crackin views over the Forth but I wouldnt take it for ?100k There's nowt round about there unless you want chain shops or restaurants Planners seem to have their eyes closed when it comes to these developments, there's no character, no community, nowt. Why not throw in a few shops, some socially affordable housing, maybe a unit that could be opened as a bar or coffee shop. Make it an interesting place to live. Theres no focus for the whole development just an endless warren of shiny new flats Oh I think you will find there was a very obvious focus for the development. MONEY. Otherwise why would they squeeze as many slave boxes onto the site as possible ? It is not as if Edinburgh has a shortage of flats. Family homes are what is required. However family homes return less profits for the size of a plot. Well that was the case until recently. Funny how they changed their tune earlier this year to announce they would be building more family homes for the development... Were they just thinking of the people in doing this ? Of course not - if so they would have planned this from the start. They have simply realised the flat market in Edinburgh is mega saturated and their only hope of sales is in houses rather than flats. Greed. Nothing else. Quite disgusting really. Could have been a great new area of the City. Instead it is looking like becoming the new Wester Hailes. Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 The terminal shopping centre is very near as well only a short walk away, and it is nice in there. Funny, I am just about to go out, I am not sure whether to go to the Terminal or to just go to Mark's (the shop is called Crolla's, but Mark runs it, awfy nice guy) shop, which is ten minutes away, I am not going to the bakers, also ten minutes away, so it is between the Terminal and Mark's. Tbh, I think I will go to Mark's. Had I decided to go to the Terminal, I would have taken the quick route by the new 24 hour ASDA, a fifteen minute walk with the pram, faster if you are in a hurry, as opposed to the longer route that goes past two chippies, three pubs, the Spar, the pharmacist, the doctors, three newsagents and one of those cartridge stores. That route takes about twenty minutes. Nothing down here eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munch Posted October 18, 2008 Author Share Posted October 18, 2008 Funny, I am just about to go out, I am not sure whether to go to the Terminal or to just go to Mark's (the shop is called Crolla's, but Mark runs it, awfy nice guy) shop, which is ten minutes away, I am not going to the bakers, also ten minutes away, so it is between the Terminal and Mark's. Tbh, I think I will go to Mark's. Had I decided to go to the Terminal, I would have taken the quick route by the new 24 hour ASDA, a fifteen minute walk with the pram, faster if you are in a hurry, as opposed to the longer route that goes past two chippies, three pubs, the Spar, the pharmacist, the doctors, three newsagents and one of those cartridge stores. That route takes about twenty minutes. Nothing down here eh? I go to the Terminal at least twice a week, the food is great, and the shops in there are first class, also a cracking cinema, and a Spa, HMV, Marks and Spencer's, i rate the Terminal as the best shopping center in the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munch Posted October 18, 2008 Author Share Posted October 18, 2008 I have raised this point before. At the moment I think bankruptcy and all that is cleaned away after 5 years ? However we are entering a period of extreme risk aversion. I imagine anyone hoping to get away with it Scot free in 5 years may have a rude awakening. I think many of these people won't get credit again in any large amount. All the FSA,banks have to do it change their rules/regulations. I think that will happen. I got a mate who was a financial adviser, no business for him now, so he is into organizing and setting up deed trusts for people with mega debt problems, the debtors cant get a penny as they are effectively bankrupt but in a soft kind of way, it means they cannot get any credit whatsoever for 5 years but after that period its a clean slate. His business is booming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Loverman Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Funny, I am just about to go out, I am not sure whether to go to the Terminal or to just go to Mark's (the shop is called Crolla's, but Mark runs it, awfy nice guy) shop, which is ten minutes away, I am not going to the bakers, also ten minutes away, so it is between the Terminal and Mark's. Tbh, I think I will go to Mark's. Had I decided to go to the Terminal, I would have taken the quick route by the new 24 hour ASDA, a fifteen minute walk with the pram, faster if you are in a hurry, as opposed to the longer route that goes past two chippies, three pubs, the Spar, the pharmacist, the doctors, three newsagents and one of those cartridge stores. That route takes about twenty minutes. Nothing down here eh? You rubbing salt into the 'tache? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 I go to the Terminal at least twice a week, the food is great, and the shops in there are first class, also a cracking cinema, and a Spa, HMV, Marks and Spencer's, i rate the Terminal as the best shopping center in the city. I agree, they recently had plans to DOUBLE the store vetoed due to fears that the Princes Street shops would suffer. At the moment we are there at least twice a week also. The real miss down here (at the moment) is a big shopping centre that we can do a reasonable sized shop without paying M&S price. Much like many communities, the supermarket is absent as they have all been moved to retail parks outside of town. That will change soon when the ASDA opens, meaning reasonably priced shopping with a short walk home. Means I can get more beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 You rubbing salt into the 'tache? I don't blame the dude, I assume he has not been down here. Thing is, as you can see by the above, there is more than enough within a reasonable walking distance to rival any community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Loverman Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 I don't blame the dude, I assume he has not been down here. Thing is, as you can see by the above, there is more than enough within a reasonable walking distance to rival any community. Not blaming him either, just seems a little uniformed to be making the statements he's made! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 I got a mate who was a financial adviser, no business for him now, so he is into organizing and setting up deed trusts for people with mega debt problems, the debtors cant get a penny as they are effectively bankrupt but in a soft kind of way, it means they cannot get any credit whatsoever for 5 years but after that period its a clean slate. His business is booming. At the moment. If this information is kept on record and the Banks have access to it in 5 years....................well I imagine the 'clean slate' may not be quite as clean as previously though. You heard it here first. Anyway what is with this Granton love in on this thread ?!! It is a pretty rough area that has masses of seriously overpriced property and will be one of the hardest hit areas in this City. IMO. Would have no problems living there myself but I would be paying 80k max for a 2 bed non newbuild flat. If that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 2 bed flat in one of the nicest areas in Edinburgh: 157k fixed price. http://www.espc.co.uk/Buying/267251.html 2 bed flat in Granton: 200k Fixed Price http://www.espc.co.uk/Buying/268740.html Why would somoene pay more for the second one ? Have I missed something here ? The most overpriced areas will see the largest falls. Pretty obvious. I can see the flats like those in Cramond going to about 100k. I can see the flats like those in Granton going to about 70k. We will have to wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 At the moment. If this information is kept on record and the Banks have access to it in 5 years....................well I imagine the 'clean slate' may not be quite as clean as previously though. You heard it here first. Anyway what is with this Granton love in on this thread ?!! It is a pretty rough area that has masses of seriously overpriced property and will be one of the hardest hit areas in this City. IMO. Would have no problems living there myself but I would be paying 80k max for a 2 bed non newbuild flat. If that. I think you have geography issues there CC, Western Harbour is not in Granton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 I think you have geography issues there CC, Western Harbour is not in Granton. Ok why the "Western Harbour" love in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Ok why the "Western Harbour" love in... No love in, simply another poster has decided to have a go at the lack of facilities at the development, saying they should have shops, bars and maybe convert a flat location into a coffee shop. I merely told him there were shops, bars and that they had converted a flat location into a coffee shop. Many on this thread seem to be opining about the area "I would not let my missus (if I had one) walk the streets in the dark", "you can smell the sewage", "it is a building site" etc, etc. I, as someone that lives down here, am perfectly placed to tell them they are incorrect. By all means, opine about the financial state of the city, by all means suggest that over priced flats will lose their "value" and most particularly, have a go at those that made that the case. I simply find it laughable that some on this thread feel the need to have a go at the "area" and look down from their ivory Barnton towers having a go at the 'hood. I assume that those having a pop all live in Barnton or such areas yeah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 No love in, simply another poster has decided to have a go at the lack of facilities at the development, saying they should have shops, bars and maybe convert a flat location into a coffee shop. I merely told him there were shops, bars and that they had converted a flat location into a coffee shop. Many on this thread seem to be opining about the area "I would not let my missus (if I had one) walk the streets in the dark", "you can smell the sewage", "it is a building site" etc, etc. I, as someone that lives down here, am perfectly placed to tell them they are incorrect. By all means, opine about the financial state of the city, by all means suggest that over priced flats will lose their "value" and most particularly, have a go at those that made that the case. I simply find it laughable that some on this thread feel the need to have a go at the "area" and look down from their ivory Barnton towers having a go at the 'hood. I assume that those having a pop all live in Barnton or such areas yeah? Rather amusing - I do actually stay in Barnton !!! Well my Mum does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Rather amusing - I do actually stay in Barnton !!! Well my Mum does Posh kid eh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Posh kid eh! Indeed. Anyway I just think the whole development down there has been a mess. It is very clear they are simply trying to squeeze as many flats in as possible. I am sure there are shops nearby and all - but they could have tried to actually create a community within the Western Harbour area itself. Instead it just seems to be a load of flats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Indeed. Anyway I just think the whole development down there has been a mess. It is very clear they are simply trying to squeeze as many flats in as possible. I am sure there are shops nearby and all - but they could have tried to actually create a community within the Western Harbour area itself. Instead it just seems to be a load of flats. So, you haven't seen the plans for the area either? As for community, what could they do to attempt to create a community? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 So, you haven't seen the plans for the area either? As for community, what could they do to attempt to create a community? I have underlined the important word. I have seen a lot of plans for modern housing developments. Most look great. Many never end up that way. The number one priority for these developments is $$$. Nothing else. All the nice plans and pictures are simply put in place to increase sales. It is a sales pitch. Sometimes they follow through on their vision. Many times they do not. Do I think Gregor Shore or Barrats give a flying **** if an area is nice to live in for it's customers ? Do I ****. They only care about the bottom line. As for creating a community it would be very simple. -Actually sell these flats at a reasonable price to attract people that actually wanted to live there - and not investors who were simply wanting to make a quick buck. -Include clauses that ensured you could not buy a property and sell it on for a profit within a certain number of years. -Incorporate shops, a bar, who knows what else into the area. -Build it with a certain style so that it actually feels like a community. -Make it different. -Make it original. -Don't just slap big high storey buildings one after another. If they had done all this they would have created a vibrant community with people who all had a common interest in keeping the area well looked after and interesting. Instead they were blinded by greed. The prices were stupid and so many real people who perhaps would have bought were not able to. They didn't create a community or regenerate an area. They created an investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Whittaker's Tache Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 I have underlined the important word. I have seen a lot of plans for modern housing developments. Most look great. Many never end up that way. The number one priority for these developments is $$$. Nothing else. All the nice plans and pictures are simply put in place to increase sales. It is a sales pitch. Sometimes they follow through on their vision. Many times they do not. Do I think Gregor Shore or Barrats give a flying **** if an area is nice to live in for it's customers ? Do I ****. They only care about the bottom line. Which means that any new development is bound to fail then? Given that companys like GS and Barratts will be those building the flats? Surely that means that the "Western Harbour" development is just the same as any other development? As for creating a community it would be very simple. -Actually sell these flats at a reasonable price to attract people that actually wanted to live there - and not investors who were simply wanting to make a quick buck. -Include clauses that ensured you could not buy a property and sell it on for a profit within a certain number of years. -Incorporate shops' date=' a bar, who knows what else into the area. -Build it with a certain style so that it actually feels like a community. -Make it different. -Make it original. -Don't just slap big high storey buildings one after another. [/quote'] So far, they have incorporated one cafe/shop into three relatively finished builds, how do you know that will not end up the case? Surely it is a little one sided to downcry the plans, particularly when the whole project is merely started? As for different, I happen to think that this little bit IS different, certainly different from the main housing areas of Edinburgh. When it is finished, with the big park and the bridge over to the Terminal, it will look very nice IMO. As for original, originality is hard to bottle and administer, especially when you are talking about houses which have many directives. I suspect that it will not be "high storey buildings one after another", however, neither you nor I can say it will or will not at this stage, the development is at an early stage. If they had done all this they would have created a vibrant community with people who all had a common interest in keeping the area well looked after and interesting. Instead they were blinded by greed. The prices were stupid and so many real people who perhaps would have bought were not able to. They didn't create a community or regenerate an area. They created an investment. I have highlighted the key part, is it not a little premature to talk about what they haven't done before they have or haven't done it? As for prices of property and greed, that has been prevalent throughout the United Kingdom over the last few years, you need only look at programs like "Property Ladder" and that auction one on BBC1, the whole country has been looking for the fast buck at the expense of the house buyer, I know you are not naive enough to suggest that the builders themselves should not be looking to do the same. This is far from a "Western Harbour" issue. A little reminder about your community, your community has no school? You not think that will be important. Shall I tell you that there will be a primary school over here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Just noticed this thread and was interested as i was in this area for the first time on Thursday and my thoughts were exactly as some others. souless uninspiring fast forward 20 years and it will be like Sighthill vastly overpriced If i had been suckered into buying a house here i would be pig sick as you can see how it all seemed like a good idea and now it is a nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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