World Financial System......done

[coppercrutch]

Thought this deserved a new thread to add to all the others.

 

Both the US and UK have undertaken unprecedented bail outs. Both have failed to do as expected. The Baltic index for shipping has collapsed. Based on waning demand from China to import and export goods - and everyone else cutting back.

 

Iceland, the country, has failed.

 

Banks are failing all over the World - left, right and centre.

 

The Dow Jones fell over 7% today alone. The FTSE tomorrow is going to be absolutely carnage. Could go close to 4000. It is a possibility.

 

We are getting so close to COMPLETE collapse. It is ****ing scary stuff.

 

Expect UK bank shares tomorrow to completely collapse. I think we could see another raft of 20-30% offs.

 

Where will this end ? Let's hope not with soldiers on the streets, rubbish piled up and complete mayhem.

 

I hate to say this but that is not even going over the top. It may very well happen.

 

Hope not !!

[Boris]

Perhaps immediate socialist revolution is the only way to stabalise things then?

 

Let the people take control of what is essentially theirs!

[davemclaren]

Thought this deserved a new thread to add to all the others.

 

Both the US and UK have undertaken unprecedented bail outs. Both have failed to do as expected. The Baltic index for shipping has collapsed. Based on waning demand from China to import and export goods - and everyone else cutting back.

 

Iceland, the country, has failed.

 

Banks are failing all over the World - left, right and centre.

 

The Dow Jones fell over 7% today alone. The FTSE tomorrow is going to be absolutely carnage. Could go close to 4000. It is a possibility.

 

We are getting so close to COMPLETE collapse. It is ****ing scary stuff.

 

Expect UK bank shares tomorrow to completely collapse. I think we could see another raft of 20-30% offs.

 

Where will this end ? Let's hope not with soldiers on the streets, rubbish piled up and complete mayhem.

 

I hate to say this but that is not even going over the top. It may very well happen.

 

Hope not !!

 

It may have been worse if the governments hadn't intervened, who knows?

[coppercrutch]

Perhaps immediate socialist revolution is the only way to stabalise things then?

 

Let the people take control of what is essentially theirs!

 

That is your answer to everything !!

 

It may have been worse if the governments hadn't intervened, who knows?

 

Indeed - who does know.

 

Everything is rapidly heading downhill. At a frightening pace. These days will be talked about for centuries in the future. We are witnessing history. Quite exciting - but not good

[Martin_T]

Thought this deserved a new thread to add to all the others.

 

Both the US and UK have undertaken unprecedented bail outs. Both have failed to do as expected. The Baltic index for shipping has collapsed. Based on waning demand from China to import and export goods - and everyone else cutting back.

 

Iceland, the country, has failed.

 

Banks are failing all over the World - left, right and centre.

 

The Dow Jones fell over 7% today alone. The FTSE tomorrow is going to be absolutely carnage. Could go close to 4000. It is a possibility.

 

We are getting so close to COMPLETE collapse. It is ****ing scary stuff.

 

Expect UK bank shares tomorrow to completely collapse. I think we could see another raft of 20-30% offs.

 

Where will this end ? Let's hope not with soldiers on the streets, rubbish piled up and complete mayhem.

 

I hate to say this but that is not even going over the top. It may very well happen.

 

Hope not !!

 

 

....and scaremongering nonsense such as the above does nothing to help.

 

The Dow Jones fell today because it the first day that short selling has been allowed since the temporary ban on it following Lehman's collapse. Most banks were expecting a run on their shares today as a consequence.

 

The bail out's haven't physically gone through yet, so the true benefit is yet to be felt. I expect UK bank shares to remain stable tomorrow.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Well, if it is collapsing today (Friday), I'll let you know since I'm working in a bank in Australia. At least you can be prepared!

[coppercrutch]

....and scaremongering nonsense such as the above does nothing to help.

 

The Dow Jones fell today because it the first day that short selling has been allowed since the temporary ban on it following Lehman's collapse. Most banks were expecting a run on their shares today as a consequence.

 

The bail out's haven't physically gone through yet, so the true benefit is yet to be felt. I expect UK bank shares to remain stable tomorrow.

 

Scaremongering !! You being serious ? This is far from scaremongering. Riots have already occurred in Hong Kong yesterday because of all this. Things are only going to get worse.

 

You still think the falls were down to short selling being re-introduced ?!!

 

So what was the reason for the last 6 days falls then...........the weather....

 

As for UK bank shares tomorrow we will see. I expect most will be down 10% before half 8.

 

Maybe not. But seeing as I don't have any cash on it then it is 99% guaranteed.

[BlackJAC?]

not really scary stuff unless you have mass savings. the long and the short of it all is these people were more than aware of their actions and what the implications would be if things went tits up. Well, it's going tits up and now it's time for these institutions to reap the rewards.

 

In short, let the 'free market' dig itself out of the ****. After all, it was this wonderful western system that got itself into the **** in the first place through being infested with greedy fat cats that were all to willing to gamble with money they never had in the first place.

 

Would I give a **** if it all turned to dust tomorrow? Probably not as mankind has survived a lot worse than some banks going bust.

[Boris]

That is your answer to everything !!

 

 

Well to be fair, Marx is on a bit of a roll at the moment!

 

[coppercrutch]

Well, if it is collapsing today (Friday), I'll let you know since I'm working in a bank in Australia. At least you can be prepared!

 

You do that Geoff !! The DOW just fell 7%. The chance of the FTSE not following suite is about as minute as Hibs chances of winning the Scottish Cup.

[coppercrutch]

not really scary stuff unless you have mass savings. the long and the short of it all is these people were more than aware of their actions and what the implications would be if things went tits up. Well, it's going tits up and now it's time for these institutions to reap the rewards.

 

In short, let the 'free market' dig itself out of the ****. After all, it was this wonderful western system that got itself into the **** in the first place through being infested with greedy fat cats that were all to willing to gamble with money they never had in the first place.

 

Would I give a **** if it all turned to dust tomorrow? Probably not as mankind has survived a lot worse than some banks going bust.

 

Or a pension. Or a job. Or a business. Or debt.

 

So that only covers..........nearly everyone in this country !!

[Martin_T]

Scaremongering !! You being serious ? This is far from scaremongering. Riots have already occurred in Hong Kong yesterday because of all this. Things are only going to get worse.

 

You still think the falls were down to short selling being re-introduced ?!!

 

So what was the reason for the last 6 days falls then...........the weather....

 

As for UK bank shares tomorrow we will see. I expect most will be down 10% before half 8.

 

Maybe not. But seeing as I don't have any cash on it then it is 99% guaranteed.

 

Coppercrutch, a large part of my job is veryfing the price movements of securities held by our investors against various price sources (data vendors such as Bloomberg, Reuters etc). Monday was a very bad day, but since then the market has been reasonably stable. It is nowhere near the Armageddon that some seem to be making it out to be.

[Vladfan]

....and scaremongering nonsense such as the above does nothing to help.

 

The Dow Jones fell today because it the first day that short selling has been allowed since the temporary ban on it following Lehman's collapse. Most banks were expecting a run on their shares today as a consequence.

 

The bail out's haven't physically gone through yet, so the true benefit is yet to be felt. I expect UK bank shares to remain stable tomorrow.

 

This is a very sensible point and one that I wish the red tops would take note of. Too many people are panicking on the back of the red top stories. I don't know why we even buy them to be honest (I'll hold my hands up and say that I do occasionally buy one so i'm not having a dig here)

[Malinga the Swinga]

Coppercrutch, a large part of my job is veryfing the price movements of securities held by our investors against various price sources (data vendors such as Bloomberg, Reuters etc). Monday was a very bad day, but since then the market has been reasonably stable. It is nowhere near the Armageddon that some seem to be making it out to be.

 

Don't know what the market is actually looking for in US. Everything suggested or implemented is voted down by the amrket and the great sale continues. I hate those negative dealers who are against everything, but don't know what they actually want.

 

Guess that is what hacks me off the most. What does the market want?

[Das Root]

Ha, Coppercrutch you just nicked your OP from Robert Preston's BBC blog. Now I know where you get your info from

 

Pound has dropped to $1.70, lowest it's been in 12mths, hopefully won't drop further and breach the $1.60s but I just think it might.

[BlackJAC?]

Or a pension. Or a job. Or a business. Or debt.

 

So that only covers..........nearly everyone in this country !!

 

i'm sure the continent of Africa will send aid to those worst affected in the West. One thing is for sure if the free market dies the death it deserves other countries will prosper and maybe then a system will be implemented that doesn't discriminate against those of us that weren't fortunate enough to be born in an ivory tower.

[coppercrutch]

Coppercrutch, a large part of my job is veryfing the price movements of securities held by our investors against various price sources (data vendors such as Bloomberg, Reuters etc). Monday was a very bad day, but since then the market has been reasonably stable. It is nowhere near the Armageddon that some seem to be making it out to be.

 

Reasonably stable ? DOW gone down over 40% in the last year. Back to 2003 prices.

 

Today was its biggest drop since 1987. In the last month they must have had at least 5 of the biggest drops ever seen. The FTSE is not far off.

 

When we are talking financials just what would you class as Armageddon...

 

This is it. It is happening. Lets just hope it calms down soon !!

[Martin_T]

Don't know what the market is actually looking for in US. Everything suggested or implemented is voted down by the amrket and the great sale continues. I hate those negative dealers who are against everything, but don't know what they actually want.

 

Guess that is what hacks me off the most. What does the market want?

 

There has undoubtedly been systemic flaws which have led to many of the problems many major financial institutions are facing now. However make no mistake, there are people and institutions who are make an absolute killing in declining markets, including the banks themselves. My employer recorded record income levels in the days following Lehman's collapse, in spite of our own share price taking a hammering.

 

Part of me cannot help but think, that the powers that be at the major banks, have seen a great opportunity to have their bad debts paid off with tax payers money and are doing everything they can to ensure this is the case.

[Boris]

i'm sure the continent of Africa will send aid to those worst affected in the West. One thing is for sure if the free market dies the death it deserves other countries will prosper and maybe then a system will be implemented that doesn't discriminate against those of us that weren't fortunate enough to be born in an ivory tower.

 

Hahaha

 

Brilliant!

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

And another thing, who rates the raters. Standard & Poors had the Icelandic banks at its highest rating a week ago and then they go boom, and what do you know, nothing is said as to how did they get things so wrong.

 

If a ratings agency changes its rating, firms have to pay more, yet it is obvious that they do not know what they are really doing and they are just guessing like the rest of us.

 

Get rid of this bunch of crystal ball readers, and let companies negotiate without these clowns adding their points into argument.

[Malinga the Swinga]

There has undoubtedly been systemic flaws which have led to many of the problems many major financial institutions are facing now. However make no mistake, there are people and institutions who are make an absolute killing in declining markets, including the banks themselves. My employer recorded record income levels in the days following Lehman's collapse, in spite of our own share price taking a hammering.

 

Part of me cannot help but think, that the powers that be at the major banks, have seen a great opportunity to have their bad debts paid off with tax payers money and are doing everything they can to ensure this is the case.

 

Sadly, you may not be wrong. Not one of the UK bank leaders has fallen on their sword. At least those in charge in the US paid for their errors with their jobs, yet grocer boy and Fred the shred are still sitting collecting their wages. So is the guy from Northern Rock, who got punted but collects wages anyway. Outrageous and a real wage thief.

[coppercrutch]

Ha, Coppercrutch you just nicked your OP from Robert Preston's BBC blog. Now I know where you get your info from

 

Pound has dropped to $1.70, lowest it's been in 12mths, hopefully won't drop further and breach the $1.60s but I just think it might.

 

Eh ?

 

I think I have probably looked at his blog once. I get my info from other far more educated sources.

 

Oh and all of the OP are my own words 100%. So who is this genius with the same thoughts as myself !!?

[coppercrutch]

Sadly, you may not be wrong. Not one of the UK bank leaders has fallen on their sword. At least those in charge in the US paid for their errors with their jobs, yet grocer boy and Fred the shred are still sitting collecting their wages. So is the guy from Northern Rock, who got punted but collects wages anyway. Outrageous and a real wage thief.

 

They could quite rightly be jailed for fraud. There are growing noises all over for some serious action against these people. They have taken people's money. Invested it in a pyramid scheme. Lied about how much debt they have. Denied all along they were in trouble. Begged for the same people's money back to bail them out in the form of future tax. Then lent out that same money to the same people they conned in the first place and charged interest on it.

 

If that is not fraud then I don't know what is.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

They could quite rightly be jailed for fraud. There are growing noises all over for some serious action against these people. They have taken people's money. Invested it in a pyramid scheme. Lied about how much debt they have. Denied all along they were in trouble. Begged for the same people's money back to bail them out in the form of future tax. Then lent out that same money to the same people they conned in the first place and charged interest on it.

 

If that is not fraud then I don't know what is.

 

One of the reasons for the fall, which hasn't been mentioned anywhere, is today is the day where the companies holding the Lehman Brothers dodgy debt have to 'fess up to it.

 

That'll be the first stage in the washout (at last). I have consistently said that until banks show their hands, no one will have confidence. The problem some of them have is that they need this re-capitalisation to go ahead first, otherwise they would be insolvent.

[coppercrutch]

One of the reasons for the fall, which hasn't been mentioned anywhere, is today is the day where the companies holding the Lehman Brothers dodgy debt have to 'fess up to it.

 

That'll be the first stage in the washout (at last). I have consistently said that until banks show their hands, no one will have confidence. The problem some of them have is that they need this re-capitalisation to go ahead first, otherwise they would be insolvent.

 

Oh that has been mentioned on a few places.

 

As for what it all means **** knows !!

 

Do you really think these banks are suddenly going to fess up all ?

 

I doubt it.

[i8hibsh]

Perhaps immediate socialist revolution is the only way to stabalise things then?

 

Let the people take control of what is essentially theirs!

 

Boris - the individual is experiencing the EXACT same thing (albeit on a micro scale)

 

99.9% of people on the Western world are in debt beyond their control. They continually get bailed out by banks (who are lending what they don't have) and Credit companies.

 

Does this sound like people in 'control'?

[hughesie27]

Lets just start again.

Set the printers on over night and in the morning it will bright and rosey.

[Larry]

im absolutely brickin myself

[BlackJAC?]

Boris - the individual is experiencing the EXACT same thing (albeit on a micro scale)

 

99.9% of people on the Western world are in debt beyond their control. They continually get bailed out by banks (who are lending what they don't have) and Credit companies.

 

Does this sound like people in 'control'?

 

Where did you pull the 99.9% figure from? I find that hard to believe, even by today's standards.

[i8hibsh]

Where did you pull the 99.9% figure from? I find that hard to believe, even by today's standards.

 

guestimate, but my sentiment is clear

 

As individuals we generally mismanage our money just like banks.

 

We are greedy just like banks and take risks just like banks

 

We spend what we don't have just like banks

 

Banks spend our money and we tend to spend the banks money and generally waste it

[Dagger Is Back]

Reasonably stable ? DOW gone down over 40% in the last year. Back to 2003 prices.

 

Today was its biggest drop since 1987. In the last month they must have had at least 5 of the biggest drops ever seen. The FTSE is not far off.

 

When we are talking financials just what would you class as Armageddon...

 

This is it. It is happening. Lets just hope it calms down soon !!

 

You're a smart guy mate and I fear you're bang on the money. Ace cards have been played. Loads of folks will lose out if the government has to nationalise any or all of the banks.

 

We are ALL affected by this crisis make no mistake. Doesn't matter if you're a pensioner or employee, self employed or have savings or a mortgage - we are all impacted by this.

 

Better hope that things take a turn for the better otherwise we are in deep deep ****. We're talking about major redundancies across the globe and not only in finance. Unemployment reaching huge levels and the burden that places on an economy. I am ****ting myself - 2 kids, a mortgage, self employed relying on parents spending money on kids leisure activities, rising fuel and food bills - yeah I'm bricking it.

 

Can't think of any sector of the population who shouldn't be seriously concerned about this in some way shape or form.

 

p.s. I think RBS are going to announce a pretty heavy Lehman involvement tomorrow.

 

p.p.s. There's something really smelly about this whole situ though. I ain't an expert but something just doesn't sit right. There are dark dark forces at work here beavering away to reduce confidence in the global economy shoving down share prices etc.

 

Who would stand to benefit from such an occurence?

 

 

 

 

Ah **** it, it's late I'm gonna blame Al Queda

[BlackJAC?]

guestimate, but my sentiment is clear

 

As individuals we generally mismanage our money just like banks.

 

We are greedy just like banks and take risks just like banks

 

We spend what we don't have just like banks

 

Banks spend our money and we tend to spend the banks money and generally waste it

 

I'd say the financial institutions still have to shoulder the responsibility in this case because everyday we're bombarded with adverts on TV, in papers, on bill boards, on the side of buses etc, so one can argue that banks et al created this financial utopia of sorts. And like every man made utopia, it's impossible to achieve or sustain. if society is greedy, then it's safe to say it's the banks own doing.

[coppercrutch]

You're a smart guy mate and I fear you're bang on the money. Ace cards have been played. Loads of folks will lose out if the government has to nationalise any or all of the banks.

 

We are ALL affected by this crisis make no mistake. Doesn't matter if you're a pensioner or employee, self employed or have savings or a mortgage - we are all impacted by this.

 

Better hope that things take a turn for the better otherwise we are in deep deep ****. We're talking about major redundancies across the globe and not only in finance. Unemployment reaching huge levels and the burden that places on an economy. I am ****ting myself - 2 kids, a mortgage, self employed relying on parents spending money on kids leisure activities, rising fuel and food bills - yeah I'm bricking it.

 

Can't think of any sector of the population who shouldn't be seriously concerned about this in some way shape or form.

 

p.s. I think RBS are going to announce a pretty heavy Lehman involvement tomorrow.

 

p.p.s. There's something really smelly about this whole situ though. I ain't an expert but something just doesn't sit right. There are dark dark forces at work here beavering away to reduce confidence in the global economy shoving down share prices etc.

 

Who would stand to benefit from such an occurence?

 

 

 

 

Ah **** it, it's late I'm gonna blame Al Queda

 

Far more people thinking along those lines than you may think. It does all seem a little too 'organised'. Pretty much everything is getting wiped out. Someone must be benefiting.

 

I do know one thing for a fact. People in debt are people you have control of. I don't think that is a co-incidence.

 

Do a google search on CFR, BIS, bilderbergers, Rothschilds, NWO, FED Private company etc...

 

Interesting stuff. A lot of it sounds pretty loony. However a lot of it sounds rather plausible. Especially when you see what is going on just now. Us plebs are getting **** on !!

 

Ach well off to bed.

[davemclaren]

Far more people thinking along those lines than you may think. It does all seem a little too 'organised'. Pretty much everything is getting wiped out. Someone must be benefiting.

 

I do know one thing for a fact. People in debt are people you have control of. I don't think that is a co-incidence.

 

Do a google search on CFR, BIS, bilderbergers, Rothschilds, NWO, FED Private company etc...

 

Interesting stuff. A lot of it sounds pretty loony. However a lot of it sounds rather plausible. Especially when you see what is going on just now. Us plebs are getting **** on !!

 

Ach well off to bed.

 

Most things that happen in life aren't planned. I don't think this is either.

[Maximus]

Has this not happened before, back in the late 20's? We all know what that led to....

 

We're long overdue a big expensive population reducing debt creation scheme. This time the 'dark forces' will be aiming to hoover up everything though, the keys to the world.

[david mcgee]

Why did Warren Buffet say , " this is an economic Pearl Harbour"?

 

Why not an economic catastrophe, or an unprecedented economic disaster?

 

No, an economic Pearl Harbour.

 

What does that mean?

[davemclaren]

Why did Warren Buffet say , " this is an economic Pearl Harbour"?

 

Why not an economic catastrophe, or an unprecedented economic disaster?

 

No, an economic Pearl Harbour.

 

What does that mean?

 

It was a surprise?

[Tazio]

Why did Warren Buffet say , " this is an economic Pearl Harbour"?

 

Why not an economic catastrophe, or an unprecedented economic disaster?

 

No, an economic Pearl Harbour.

 

What does that mean?

 

He's blaming the Japanese?

[Maximus]

Most things that happen in life aren't planned. I don't think this is either.

OPEN YOUR EYES, it's been done before. This stage of the 'plan' has been ongoing since WW2, it's called globalisation. Ever wondered why our rights are slowly being taken away day by day as everything becomes 'centralised' and national barriers are broken down (the EU for example), the world has become smaller and more generic. Also, the wealth/debts of the nations of the world have been merged. Why? I think it should all be pretty clear by now.

 

We are basically pwned. The big banks and corporations now hold our lives in their hands, we are their play things, teets to be milked dry for their amusment.

[davemclaren]

OPEN YOUR EYES, it's been done before. This stage of the 'plan' has been ongoing since WW2, it's called globalisation. Ever wondered why our rights are slowly being taken away day by day as everything becomes 'centralised' and national barriers are broken down (the EU for example), the world has become smaller and more generic. Also, the wealth/debts of the nations of the world have been merged. Why? I think it should all be pretty clear by now.

 

We are basically pwned. The big banks and corporations now hold our lives in their hands, we are their play things, teets to be milked dry for their amusment.

 

The big banks aren't even in charge of their own destiny as far as I can see.

[Cade]

Dig for Victory!

 

Grow yer own food! Keep pigs and chickens in yer garden!

 

We're Dooooooooooooooooooooomed!

[david mcgee]

The big banks aren't even in charge of their own destiny as far as I can see.

 

Who is about to own the banks?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Shares in Australia down over 5% at the moment. Nikkei is down almost 1%.

 

Not bad in the circumstances and no big queues outside banks! Enjoy your weekend folks!!

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Shares in Australia down over 5% at the moment. Nikkei is down almost 1%.

 

Not bad in the circumstances and no big queues outside banks! Enjoy your weekend folks!!

 

Update: Down around 8% here and 10% in Tokyo.

 

No one jumping off buildings...yet!

[NYC-Hearts]

Update: Down around 8% here and 10% in Tokyo.

 

No one jumping off buildings...yet!

 

Uh oh...

 

Moody's have put Morgan Stanley on review for a downgrade and have put Goldman's long term rating to negative. CDS prices are going to accelerate tomorrow, causing sellers to divest equity holdings for protection, exacerbating the downward spiral.

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aHFmX.IY.nJk&refer=home

[coppercrutch]

Anyone still think UK banking stocks are not going to further collapse today........

 

I am going for RBS and HBOS both down at least 20%.

 

As for most things in life not being planned................you must live one crazy life Mr McLaren !!!

 

I would imagine the majority of actions in human life are planned to some degree.

 

The wholescale destruction of Wealth across the globe just seems to be going along far too nicely....

 

Who knows.

[coppercrutch]

Update - FTSE expected to be down over 300 before it even begins....

 

 

 

Please stop !! This is getting far too mental.

[Dagger Is Back]

Update - FTSE expected to be down over 300 before it even begins....

 

 

 

Please stop !! This is getting far too mental.

 

I'm not liking this at all. We have some RBS shares as a retirement nest egg - almost worth the square root of **** all!

[coppercrutch]

I'm not liking this at all. We have some RBS shares as a retirement nest egg - almost worth the square root of **** all!

 

Not many people are liking this a lot.

 

Few friends of friends at work who had been building up shares for 20 years - due to retire next year with 120k savd up extra. Now that is worth about 15k.

 

All plans ****ed.

 

Us plebs are getting raped. Literally financially raped.

[Stuart Lyon]

The slide in share prices continues this morning.