bobskeldon Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Still hearing shouts of "get it up the feckin park" and "we are feckin shooting the other way". Not sure if it's the same people who were shouting " don't just feckin lump it" or "keep the feckin ball" last season, probably is because there is absolutely no pleasing everybody. That is what makes fitba what it is. I actually think we played OK last night but desperately need an end product and when we do get it (and I think we will) we will be a good side. Am I disappointed? Of course I am, but I am also very pleased we are a completely different (and better) side than last season and that is down to Csaba! If you like to watch 'hoofball' I suggest you go somewhere else as I can tell you it's not going to happen with Csaba and I for one am delighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboGraham Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Indeed....looks as though many of us are going to have to be patient because the long ball hoof up the park looks to be a thing of the past...thank goodness! I like the new style of play...however, we can all cleary see that this works in two thirds of the pitch then has nowhere to go....if I can see it then so can the boss. I am sure that Csaba will be working hard at fixing that... If we can get the final third working as well as the middle of the park then we will be pretty good to watch this year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 The long hoofball is a thing of the past but could have been used last night as a last resort with extra time looming. Its a better style of football,us playing a passing game but passing the ball doesnt get you goals,and they are a must if you want to win games. Once we get the strikers sorted(not sure how,everyone goes on about a 20 a season striker but its been years since we had one of those),our passing game will be more appreciated by the uneducated fans who want to go back to playing hoofball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboGraham Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 The long hoofball is a thing of the past but could have been used last night as a last resort with extra time looming. Its a better style of football,us playing a passing game but passing the ball doesnt get you goals,and they are a must if you want to win games. Once we get the strikers sorted(not sure how,everyone goes on about a 20 a season striker but its been years since we had one of those),our passing game will be more appreciated by the uneducated fans who want to go back to playing hoofball. I know what you are saying...however, I think that any long balls played up last night would simply have given Airdrie more opportunities to launch attacks at us rather than any real hope of our lone striker doing anything with it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Sorry, but I don't think there are any circumstances in which drawing 0-0 with Airdrie at home, can be classed as "playing ok". We were poor last night. Against poor opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clark Griswold Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Sorry, but I don't think there are any circumstances in which drawing 0-0 with Airdrie at home, can be classed as "playing ok". We were poor last night. Against poor opposition. Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMS Jambo Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I agree we are keeping the ball far better than we were last season and long may this continue however this means squat if there is no end product. Playing one up front with this system doesn't seem to be working either. we play a lovely passing game up to Mole then he has no outlay. Not a problem if said player has a bit of strength and guile to allow others to make space but imho Mole doesn't have either. We need at least one decent striker asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Douglas Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Sorry, but I don't think there are any circumstances in which drawing 0-0 with Airdrie at home, can be classed as "playing ok". We were poor last night. Against poor opposition. Can you not differentiate a result and a performance? I'm not saying last night is an example as I wasn't there but there's no question in my mind that you can. The gist of the OP is however entirely spot on. There's been clear signs of discontentment right from the off this season because Hearts fans have become accustomed to a mediocre brand of football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danhmfc Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 agree 100%. id much rather watch this style of football than that psh last season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Last night was a poor performance,but if the striker part can get sorted quickly we will do well this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambonian Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Facts are facts, they were a team 4th bottom of the first division and for all the nice passing, we still couldn't break down a team of journeymen. Had they brought Nade on instead of Ksanavicius we might've got a result. Bad tactics all round as far as i'm concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thig Ar Latha Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 While I agree that frequent, aimless long balls are a thing of the past. There is a time and place when it can catch out a defence and if it works on occasions, then use it on occasions. Just don't rely on it all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Tolbooth Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Can you not differentiate a result and a performance? I'm not saying last night is an example as I wasn't there but there's no question in my mind that you can. The gist of the OP is however entirely spot on. There's been clear signs of discontentment right from the off this season because Hearts fans have become accustomed to a mediocre brand of football. To be fair Chip, I was there last night and I normally can differentiate between result and performance, however I thought whilst we played a lot of possession football, we simply weren't very good at it, and I blame the lack of quality in the players we have right now. Last night I thought after the game of how many players I would have given pass marks to, and the answer was only one, Kello. Stewart and Miko had half decent first halves, but the rest were simply awful and the two aforementioned players fell completely out of it in the second half. One thing that also really bugs me is the constant booing of Miko when Larry gets treated like a king, and does hee haw. Miko ain't no Maradona and never will be, but sometimes he tries hard and gets very little reward. He done more in the first half last night that Larry has done in his last 3 games, Larry's a fraud and a complete waste of 3 decent players wages, I really hope we punt him soon. Overall my opinion is that our squad simply lacks any real talent, we have no defenders that I would call "Elvis" class, no midfield players that I would call "Hartley" class, and quite simply no strikers (Glen apart) that has ANY class. We should get 4 derbies however this season, in the bottom 6! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Passing the ball sideways and back to the defenders is not the sort of football I want to see. It gives the opposition all the time in the world to get back in position after they lose the ball. It is extremely hard - unless you can bring in Italian No 10 style players with huge creativity - to break down defences as a result. It is a flawed strategy to attempt this type of game with players as poor as ours in midfield/forward areas. I like the style that Burley had us playing. Pressing hard on the opposition when they had the ball - in packs. Win the ball and play a simple ball forward to the likes of Jankauskas to hold or Bednar over the top. Meant that the midfield could get forward before the opposition had a chance to regroup. The type of game played by us so far this season is a recipe for bottom six with the dross players we have from midfield to front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Winstone Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 At the moment we are passing it around very comfotably. Hopefully in theory as the confidence builds the passing will get quicker and sharper allowing us to have more of a cutting edge in the final third. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Can you not differentiate a result and a performance? Yep. I watched the performance last night, and it was in no way "ok". poor performance, and poor result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecjambo Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 One point id like to make is I thought Chesny did well when he came on. If he had an end product then we would have been through. But these things happen. Miko in the first half was getting in great positions but his final ball was poor and it didnt help that we never had enough men in the box to put the ball away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieholt Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I like Hearts playing the passing gane but it has to be done much quicker. The whole point of possession play is to drag the other team around, wait for an opportunity to open up then strike fast. Ambling around at the back playing Barry Ferguson passes doesn't throw the opposition at all. and playing 1 up against a 10 man Airdrie side defies belief Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobskeldon Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 Sorry, but I don't think there are any circumstances in which drawing 0-0 with Airdrie at home, can be classed as "playing ok". We were poor last night. Against poor opposition. There will be many times in the future (as there has been in the past ) when we are brilliant but lose and sometimes win when we are poor. There is no formula for 'success' the equation (play OK/well/brilliant = win) sometimes doesn't work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo83 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Passing the ball on the deck amongst our back four and midfielder is all very well, and it's good to keep possession, but we need to see it advance from there. I think the complaints were because it wasn't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 There will be many times in the future (as there has been in the past ) when we are brilliant but lose and sometimes win when we are poor. There is no formula for 'success' the equation (play OK/well/brilliant = win) sometimes doesn't work out. Yep fair enough Bob. but poor performance, and poor result, is poor all round in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Douglas Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Yep. I watched the performance last night, and it was in no way "ok". poor performance, and poor result. But there are circumstances were we could play very well and still draw 0-0 with Airdrie at home (losing out on penalties) i.e. good performance and poor result? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 But there are circumstances were we could play very well and still draw 0-0 with Airdrie at home (losing out on penalties) i.e. good performance and poor result? Thats possible. Thats not what happened last night though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Douglas Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Thats possible. Thats not what happened last night though. Good, that's not what you said in the initial post I quoted by you however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 We're not playing to our strengths. You can't make poor players who are uncomfortable on the ball play patient build-up possession football because they will either make a mistake or attempt a killer pass beyond their ability and turn it over. Keeping the ball for dozens of passes in our own half was playing right into Airdrie's hands last night and the worrying thing for me was that the manager chose not to change his system when it looked like we were never going to score. We need better players if we are going to play like that because yesterday, we played like Hibs. The 1-0 game when Zal scored is what yesterday reminded me of but this time it was us who were suckered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Good, that's not what you said in the initial post I quoted by you however. Congratulations on managing to outmanouvre someone on kickback. Does that mean we played well last night, and won the game, and are now in the next round? It goes without saying that it's possible to play poorly and win. Hardly took Albert Einstien to prove that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
husref musemic Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 On Saturday I was sitting in the main stand beside 'angry Dad' and his nervous smiling family who spent the 90 minutes "the goals that way ya f'n idiot",booo"get it up the park ya f'n idiot"boooo "gee it to kingston ya f'n idiot" and we were winning ! When there was something he appoved it it got "aboot time ya f'n idiot". Quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Douglas Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Congratulations on managing to outmanouvre someone on kickback. Does that mean we played well last night, and won the game, and are now in the next round? It goes without saying that it's possible to play poorly and win. Hardly took Albert Einstien to prove that. If people posted with a little more clarity, the world would be a less angry and confused place. And you'd have a post count of about 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Still hearing shouts of "get it up the feckin park" and "we are feckin shooting the other way". Not sure if it's the same people who were shouting " don't just feckin lump it" or "keep the feckin ball" last season, probably is because there is absolutely no pleasing everybody. That is what makes fitba what it is. I actually think we played OK last night but desperately need an end product and when we do get it (and I think we will) we will be a good side. Am I disappointed? Of course I am, but I am also very pleased we are a completely different (and better) side than last season and that is down to Csaba! If you like to watch 'hoofball' I suggest you go somewhere else as I can tell you it's not going to happen with Csaba and I for one am delighted. Bob, you don't actually have to "hoof" the ball to get it up the fecking park. There was a lot of sideways and back passing last night that keeps possession but will never cause the opposition trouble. While I want the ball played on the ground we need to up the tempo. We give teams way to much time to re-organise their defence with our, quite frankly, padestrian style of passing game. It needs to be done at pace with speed of thought and movement off the ball to really trouble teams. We maybe did it twice last night and both times poor finishing let us down. Sadly I am not sure we have a team that have the required grey matter to achieve this. Time under Csaba will tell though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 On Saturday I was sitting in the main stand beside 'angry Dad' and his nervous smiling family who spent the 90 minutes "the goals that way ya f'n idiot",booo"get it up the park ya f'n idiot"boooo "gee it to kingston ya f'n idiot" and we were winning ! When there was something he appoved it it got "aboot time ya f'n idiot". Quality. Always wonder why people like that bother going to the game. The word supporter can hardly be applied to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flogel98 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 FWIW I thought generally we played OK last night. Resisted the urge to play hoof ball which would have failed given our "strike" force. For me, it all went wrong with a lack of strikers making strikers moves. I can't help but feel that if we had two decent front men, it would have been a different result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Bob, you don't actually have to "hoof" the ball to get it up the fecking park. There was a lot of sideways and back passing last night that keeps possession but will never cause the opposition trouble. While I want the ball played on the ground we need to up the tempo. We give teams way to much time to re-organise their defence with our, quite frankly, padestrian style of passing game. It needs to be done at pace with speed of thought and movement off the ball to really trouble teams. We maybe did it twice last night and both times poor finishing let us down. Sadly I am not sure we have a team that have the required grey matter to achieve this. Time under Csaba will tell though. Great post, exactly how I feel. If we try to do what we did last night all season, we are going to see a lot of 0-0 draws and the odd 0-1 loss. We don't have the players to play like that so they just waste time with no urgency and knock the ball about pointlessly in front of the other team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 What is the point in playing football where you pass it around but there is no end product? Look at Arsenal for example, they get all the praise in the world but often don't score because they want to keep playing pretty football. I'm not saying we should go back to playing hoofball but you need to have a fine balance between the two. If we always play passing football (especially with no end product), we'll become predictable and teams will find it easier to stop us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboy81 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 What is the point in playing football where you pass it around but there is no end product? Look at Arsenal for example, they get all the praise in the world but often don't score because they want to keep playing pretty football. I don't think there are any similarities between the two! Arsenal play high tempo, exciting football and have lots of players who can score goals. Hearts players play simple, 5 yards to one another, which is an improvement of the shambolic play of the past few seasons, and have Jamie Mole up front! The fact is neat and tidy football can produce results, and trophies. The key, surprise surprise, is having good players, which unfortuntaley for Hearts is where the problem lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobskeldon Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 It would appear that some people failed to spot the "end product" bit of my OP. So there is NO confusion... I like the way we are being set up to play by Csaba. I think we do not have an end product just now. I do not think we are "pedestrian", I just don't think we have enough nouse in the last third. I think this system will suit us when we play with one or two good strikers. I think just now we sometimes 'overpass' it (a bit like Falkirk do). I want us to playing like this but take more chances. I actually thought we were nothing like as bad last night as many on here make out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 The passing game is only really effective if players move into space and make themselves available. Too many last night were quite content to stroll around as if their very presence on the pitch was going to win us the game. Last night there was a distinct lack of "heart" amongst quite a few on the park and I found that deeply worrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossmaroon Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I like the idea of a passing game, but I have a couple of reservations after last night's game. Firstly, several of the players show a clumsy first touch, resulting in chasing about expending time and energy to get it back (or losing a goal as we did v Motherwell). Secondly, Karapidis does not seem to be a player suited to this; swapping him for Jonsson last night looked a good shout for the second half. Thirdly, surely hooking our best performing player (Miko) and the player most likely to score from nothing (Kingston) looked like poor decisions at the time and borne out by our defeat, as both would surely have hit better pens than Wallace and Obua. However, I think that this season has to be viewed as rebuilding and little by little the changes to personnel should suit the new style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leginten Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Passing the ball sideways and back to the defenders is not the sort of football I want to see. It gives the opposition all the time in the world to get back in position after they lose the ball. It is extremely hard - unless you can bring in Italian No 10 style players with huge creativity - to break down defences as a result. It is a flawed strategy to attempt this type of game with players as poor as ours in midfield/forward areas. I like the style that Burley had us playing. Pressing hard on the opposition when they had the ball - in packs. Win the ball and play a simple ball forward to the likes of Jankauskas to hold or Bednar over the top. Meant that the midfield could get forward before the opposition had a chance to regroup. The type of game played by us so far this season is a recipe for bottom six with the dross players we have from midfield to front. Hallelujah. The idea that keeping the ball at all costs is some kind of holy grail, even if it means eventually conceding a throw-in deep in your own half after your full backs have run out of ideas, is ridiculous. Takes me back to Roxburgh's brand of possession football against Costa Rica in Italia '90 when the instruction appeared to be to square pass the ball all afternoon rather than try to beat a man or try the pass through or over the defence in case we lost the ball. In the event we lost the match playing a brand of football that was described by one Italian newspaper as "prehistoric". Some of our stuff is distinctly craven at the moment. 4-5-1 against Division One opponents at home, with the nominal striker making lateral runs fifteen metres outside the penalty area. No-one in the box to get on the end of crosses - no wonder Chesney and Miko look so perplexed when the moment comes to fire the ball into the box. Keep-ball across our back four. Laboured square passing in midfield. I have to say we could do better with the personnel available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieholt Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Hallelujah. The idea that keeping the ball at all costs is some kind of holy grail, even if it means eventually conceding a throw-in deep in your own half after your full backs have run out of ideas, is ridiculous. Takes me back to Roxburgh's brand of possession football against Costa Rica in Italia '90 when the instruction appeared to be to square pass the ball all afternoon rather than try to beat a man or try the pass through or over the defence in case we lost the ball. In the event we lost the match playing a brand of football that was described by one Italian newspaper as "prehistoric".Some of our stuff is distinctly craven at the moment. 4-5-1 against Division One opponents at home, with the nominal striker making lateral runs fifteen metres outside the penalty area. No-one in the box to get on the end of crosses - no wonder Chesney and Miko look so perplexed when the moment comes to fire the ball into the box. Keep-ball across our back four. Laboured square passing in midfield. I have to say we could do better with the personnel available. Nail firmly on head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letsalllaughathobos Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 i also think we are playing some good stuff(without no end product)but the question will be can we do the same in the winter. at places like inverness,aberdeen.ect.. need a striker or 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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