Bigger issues than dodgy decisions

[Baird, King and Michael]

It?s obvious that the Miko incident(s) and the penalty (or lack of it) incidents are going to dominate threads on JKB for the next wee while.

 

Yes it looks like some dodgy and inconsistent refereeing punished us today but there are far bigger issues to be addressed than whether it was a deliberate handball in the box or if Miko dived.

 

Today we went to play a Rangers team in crisis.

 

A team that has been struggling not just the last few weeks but since mid April this year.

 

Yet again however, (and we can?t blame The GFA for this one) we didn?t create enough chances (Audrey?s miss the only one of note) and simply failed to show up at Ibrox once again.

 

After an initial feel good factor following the Motherwell game we are back to reality with today?s game proving what most of us, (if we?re honest) knew last season?that too many players simply aren?t good enough.

 

Csaba has impressed me with most of his media comments and with the way he has tried to get the team passing the ball more.

 

Surely if any good can come from today it is that it has once again highlighted that we need much more quality in the wing back positions, in midfield and most importantly?up front.

 

Hopefully, rather than moan about conspiracy theories and a Weegie mafia Romanov will assist Csaba in bringing in genuine quality players before the transfer window shuts.

 

Otherwise, whilst I doubt we will find ourselves in the depths of despair we were in for much of last term it could be a long season ahead?dodgy refs or no!

[Dirk Diggler]

I don't think there are any bigger issues in Scottish football at the moment than that of the corrupt association that runs our game.

[Baird, King and Michael]

The thread title should of course be called bigger ?issues? rather than look like it?s a snake making a comment!

 

Dyslexics rule ko!

[davieholt]

It’s obvious that the Miko incident(s) and the penalty (or lack of it) incidents are going to dominate threads on JKB for the next wee while.

 

Yes it looks like some dodgy and inconsistent refereeing punished us today but there are far bigger issues to be addressed than whether it was a deliberate handball in the box or if Miko dived.

 

Today we went to play a Rangers team in crisis.

 

A team that has been struggling not just the last few weeks but since mid April this year.

 

Yet again however, (and we can’t blame The GFA for this one) we didn’t create enough chances (Audrey’s miss the only one of note) and simply failed to show up at Ibrox once again.

 

After an initial feel good factor following the Motherwell game we are back to reality with today’s game proving what most of us, (if we’re honest) knew last season…that too many players simply aren’t good enough.

 

Csaba has impressed me with most of his media comments and with the way he has tried to get the team passing the ball more.

 

Surely if any good can come from today it is that it has once again highlighted that we need much more quality in the wing back positions, in midfield and most importantly…up front.

 

Hopefully, rather than moan about conspiracy theories and a Weegie mafia Romanov will assist Csaba in bringing in genuine quality players before the transfer window shuts.

 

Otherwise, whilst I doubt we will find ourselves in the depths of despair we were in for much of last term it could be a long season ahead…dodgy refs or no!

 

Yup. I'm afraid silk purses and sows ears come to mind.

 

No manager could make this squad anything other than average. Csaba needs something to work with

[The Old Tolbooth]

Whilst I agree with most of the OP's points, I still think that the issue of bent refs is one that needs tackled.

 

We went to Ibrox today and didn't play well at all, in fact I thought we were honking! Yet we were still in the game (somehow) deep into injury time when the ref awarded der hun their customary penalty kick, only seconds after we should have been awarded one at the other end.

 

I appreciate that Csaba doesn't have a lot to work with regarding decent players, however it makes it a hundred times worse when we go to Glasgow and get constantly shafted by bent refs. I honestly don't mind losing fair and square, but that today was hard to take, even although we deserved nothing in the end, but sometimes you play poorly and come away with something, and today possibly should have been one of those days.

 

It happened last week in favour of the plastic paddies, and it appears that the GFA were hell bent on evening things out this week to shut the blue half of Glasgow up, and we were the unfortunate ones to suffer.

 

We could have the best team that we've had in years, but it wont matter a toss going to places like Ibrox and Parkhead as long as officials stay bent in their favour.

 

Is it any coincidence that Kaunus put Rangers out of Europe with a foriegn ref in charge? If that was a Scottish ref in charge Rangers would have coasted through to the next round, of that I guarantee!

[Hugh Watt]

It?s obvious that the Miko incident(s) and the penalty (or lack of it) incidents are going to dominate threads on JKB for the next wee while.

 

Yes it looks like some dodgy and inconsistent refereeing punished us today but there are far bigger issues to be addressed than whether it was a deliberate handball in the box or if Miko dived.

 

Today we went to play a Rangers team in crisis.

 

A team that has been struggling not just the last few weeks but since mid April this year.

 

Yet again however, (and we can?t blame The GFA for this one) we didn?t create enough chances (Audrey?s miss the only one of note) and simply failed to show up at Ibrox once again.

 

After an initial feel good factor following the Motherwell game we are back to reality with today?s game proving what most of us, (if we?re honest) knew last season?that too many players simply aren?t good enough.

 

Csaba has impressed me with most of his media comments and with the way he has tried to get the team passing the ball more.

 

Surely if any good can come from today it is that it has once again highlighted that we need much more quality in the wing back positions, in midfield and most importantly?up front.

 

Hopefully, rather than moan about conspiracy theories and a Weegie mafia Romanov will assist Csaba in bringing in genuine quality players before the transfer window shuts.

 

Otherwise, whilst I doubt we will find ourselves in the depths of despair we were in for much of last term it could be a long season ahead?dodgy refs or no!

 

Not arguing with your point, but I think that what I've seen last week (and even today to a certain extent) Lazlo is eeking out just a little bit more from the same players than we got last season with Frail in charge.

 

I'm hoping that with just a few new faces, we could see a team with the ability and hunger to attack and get results - today Laslo announced we would go for it, yes we tried, but too many times it faltered when our wide players and forward players decided to turn back with the ball rather than take a man on and swing in crosses. Larry, Driver, Audrey, Chesney all guilty of that today.

 

We need players with confidence to run at the opponents defence, and Lazlo has said he will get us the key players we need. Once he does (or doesn't if the case may be), that will be the time to judge him and the team on whether or not we are faced with another season of doom and gloom!

 

In the mean time, I still think there is more to be pleased with than worried about.

 

[Rudolf's Mate]

Midweek the huns were in crisis however Mendes pulled the strings for them & if he's still to adapt to the SPL then I dred to think how much better he's going to get!

[Dr Ian Malcolm]

Mendes sounded as if he was comfortably the best player on the park from the (as usual ridiculously pro-hun) commentary. The guy is a class act, he'll stroll through games in this league.

 

I don't think the problem is bringing new players in, we already have - its getting them fit enough to play thats the problem. Can't really remember the last time we signed someone who was ready to play immediately. Look at Mendes - signed on friday, played (apparantly very well) the next day.

[Dirk Diggler]

Mendes sounded as if he was comfortably the best player on the park from the (as usual ridiculously pro-hun) commentary. The guy is a class act, he'll stroll through games in this league.

 

I don't think the problem is bringing new players in, we already have - its getting them fit enough to play thats the problem. Can't really remember the last time we signed someone who was ready to play immediately. Look at Mendes - signed on friday, played (apparantly very well) the next day.

 

He also cost ?3 million.

[jambogaza]

I don't think there are any bigger issues in Scottish football at the moment than that of the corrupt association that runs our game.

 

No one is questioning that mate. There will always be a 12th man to compete with in Glasgow. But we really need to look beyond that. Today was not good at all. We stopped after about 15 minutes and were not at the races in the second half. Our creativity and movement was poor. Perhaps if we address these problems, the ones we CAN fix, we might be able to do some damage in these types of games.

[Guest jambomickey]

they get 50.000 at home games! we get 17.000 at home games! it's obvious they going to be able to buy better quality players than us, the way forward for us is youth through the academy

[Dirk Diggler]

No one is questioning that mate. There will always be a 12th man to compete with in Glasgow. But we really need to look beyond that. Today was not good at all. We stopped after about 15 minutes and were not at the races in the second half. Our creativity and movement was poor. Perhaps if we address these problems, the ones we CAN fix, we might be able to do some damage in these types of games.

 

Why do we need to look beyond that?

 

Shouldn't that be the crux of everyones anger?

 

Until it's a level playing field, what's the point investing in a better quality of player only for an official to rob us of 3 points?

[cardboardcutout]

He also cost ?3 million.

 

true but how much would we expect to get if we sold our so called star midfielder larry?

 

on the strength of this display nowhere near that much!!

 

and can anyone understand how we can go to glasgow and not create one chance in the whole of the first half!!!

[jambogaza]

Why do we need to look beyond that?

 

Shouldn't that be the crux of everyones anger?

 

Until it's a level playing field, what's the point investing in a better quality of player only for an official to rob us of 3 points?

 

Because it's never going to change. Not for anyone. This uprising against the SFA from all non Old Firm clubs will never happen. Imo.

[Blackdog35]

No one is questioning that mate. There will always be a 12th man to compete with in Glasgow. But we really need to look beyond that. Today was not good at all. We stopped after about 15 minutes and were not at the races in the second half. Our creativity and movement was poor. Perhaps if we address these problems, the ones we CAN fix, we might be able to do some damage in these types of games.

 

I hope the players or the manager don't take the attitude like some of the more paranoid fans that they can't achieve anything because of alleged dodgy decisions. I haven't seen any of the incidents from today's game yet but Radio Commentators were adamant that Miko dived for the first booking'

 

I'll wait till i see it on TV i think.

[Dirk Diggler]

Because it's never going to change. Not for anyone. This uprising against the SFA from all non Old Firm clubs will never happen. Imo.

 

I give up.

[Le Chat]

I hope the players or the manager don't take the attitude like some of the more paranoid fans that they can't achieve anything because of alleged dodgy decisions. I haven't seen any of the incidents from today's game yet but Radio Commentators were adamant that Miko dived for the first booking'

 

I'll wait till i see it on TV i think.

 

And they're all completely impartial right enough

 

I've just seen it on Setanta News. He was fouled. He made a bit of a meal of it, but he was fouled.

[The Old Tolbooth]

I hope the players or the manager don't take the attitude like some of the more paranoid fans that they can't achieve anything because of alleged dodgy decisions. I haven't seen any of the incidents from today's game yet but Radio Commentators were adamant that Miko dived for the first booking'

 

I'll wait till i see it on TV i think.

 

I wouldn't take what the commentators say as gospel mate, they also nearly had an orgasm when McGregor made a save from Audrey stating that he would be challenging Craig Gordon on this form blah blah blah!

 

Anything Rangers did during the game was either "magnificent" or "fantastic" or "wonderful" whereas Hearts simply huffed and puffed their way through 90 minutes (at least they got half of it right!)

 

The commentators were salivatating at the mouth when Miko was booked for his "apparent" dive, and were almost shagging each other in the studio when he was sent off for a nothing challenge.

[Blackdog35]

And they're all completely impartial right enough

 

I've just seen it on Setanta News. He was fouled. He made a bit of a meal of it, but he was fouled.

 

Well i don't think a Celtic fan(Begg) and a Hibs Fan(Paterson) would have any love for either team.

 

As for the foul/dive it depends what you class as a foul and what you don't class as a foul.

 

One thing about Miko though is that it's probably going to take an opposition player with a baseball bat to smack him over the head with it before a Scottish ref gives him a foul.

[Spellczech]

The thing that troubles me is that we know we are playing the officials as well as the opposing team when we face the OF, yet we don't even try to play them. We used to outplay Celtic at CP and lose to dodgy decisions but now we don't even turn up at either Glasgow stadium...Inviting the OF to attack you in Glasgow is pointless as even if they are too profligate to score the referee will be able to help as the ball is near enough to our goal...We should be going at them in Glasgow - their fans hate that...

[Dirk Diggler]

and a Hibs Fan(Paterson) would have any love for either team.

 

 

You're having a ferking laugh.

[jambogaza]

I give up.

 

So have the rest of us. Now to concentrate on internal issues.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

I don't think there are any bigger issues in Scottish football at the moment than that of the corrupt association that runs our game.

 

Agreed. Is there a sport anywhere else in the world were the championship contenders are pre determined pre season.

[colinmaroon]

Whilst I agree with most of the OP's points, I still think that the issue of bent refs is one that needs tackled.

 

We went to Ibrox today and didn't play well at all, in fact I thought we were honking! Yet we were still in the game (somehow) deep into injury time when the ref awarded der hun their customary penalty kick, only seconds after we should have been awarded one at the other end.

 

I appreciate that Csaba doesn't have a lot to work with regarding decent players, however it makes it a hundred times worse when we go to Glasgow and get constantly shafted by bent refs. I honestly don't mind losing fair and square, but that today was hard to take, even although we deserved nothing in the end, but sometimes you play poorly and come away with something, and today possibly should have been one of those days.

 

It happened last week in favour of the plastic paddies, and it appears that the GFA were hell bent on evening things out this week to shut the blue half of Glasgow up, and we were the unfortunate ones to suffer.

 

We could have the best team that we've had in years, but it wont matter a toss going to places like Ibrox and Parkhead as long as officials stay bent in their favour.

 

Is it any coincidence that Kaunus put Rangers out of Europe with a foriegn ref in charge? If that was a Scottish ref in charge Rangers would have coasted through to the next round, of that I guarantee!

 

 

THAT is so true it ALMOST deserves to be in the Good Book!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

......................

[Dirk Diggler]

So have the rest of us. Now to concentrate on internal issues.

 

Clearly you misunderstood.

 

I give up with those of a similar attitude to yourself.

[jambogaza]

Clearly you misunderstood.

 

I give up with those of a similar attitude to yourself.

 

I don't see the problem with my attitude. I, like you, hate the fact the SFA are inept, corrupt *****. But unlike you, I realise that shaking my fist forever at the SFA won't make a difference. Even those in a more practical position can't do anything about it. Just look at Levein. My point is that we should concentrate on the problems we can fix.

[Dirk Diggler]

I don't see the problem with my attitude. I, like you, hate the fact the SFA are inept, corrupt *****. But unlike you, I realise that shaking my fist forever at the SFA won't make a difference. Even those in a more practical position can't do anything about it. Just look at Levein. My point is that we should concentrate on the problems we can fix.

 

Maybe, just maybe, if enough people took a stance, we'd see something change?

 

It's got to be worth a try, I'd rather that than meekly surrender to the GFA and all their friends in the media.

 

Dundee Utd at Ibrox, St Mirren At Parkhead, us today, These are incidents that have all been highlighted in the last couple of months of the football calendar.

 

Make enough noise and someone will eventually listen.

[Dave Ross]

Maybe, just maybe, if enough people took a stance, we'd see something change?

 

It's got to be worth a try, I'd rather that than meekly surrender to the GFA and all their friends in the media.

 

Dundee Utd at Ibrox, St Mirren At Parkhead, us today, These are incidents that have all been highlighted in the last couple of months of the football calendar.

 

Make enough noise and someone will eventually listen.

 

Change needs to happen. It's gone past us moaning in the pub. It is essential this horrible tradition does not continue.

[jambogaza]

Maybe, just maybe, if enough people took a stance, we'd see something change?

 

It's got to be worth a try, I'd rather that than meekly surrender to the GFA and all their friends in the media.

 

Dundee Utd at Ibrox, St Mirren At Parkhead, us today, These are incidents that have all been highlighted in the last couple of months of the football calendar.

 

Make enough noise and someone will eventually listen.

 

Correct and I'd be 100% behind any such actions. But I think we, as a club, have done enough to show our frustration at the poor standards of refereeing. Despite this, we have gained no support from other clubs.

[Only a Game]

Did we do enough. Did we have enough or were we good enough to go through there today and beat a very poor Rangers team.

 

No we werent !!

 

We didnt go with the right Gerrintaethem attitude that we had to go there with. We lost a really poor goal defensively and we didnt respond for the rest of the game. At no time did we have a concerted period of pressure.

 

It was a typical Hearts at Ibrox performance in fact

[rudi must stay]

Did we do enough. Did we have enough or were we good enough to go through there today and beat a very poor Rangers team.

 

No we werent !!

 

We didnt go with the right Gerrintaethem attitude that we had to go there with. We lost a really poor goal defensively and we didnt respond for the rest of the game. At no time did we have a concerted period of pressure.

 

It was a typical Hearts at Ibrox performance in fact

 

in the sense that we didn't score sure. We looked more organised though and better on the ball

[Only a Game]

in the sense that we didn't score sure. We looked more organised though and better on the ball

 

Yes we did, and we are better and will finish higher than we did last year, but its frustrating that a Rangers team there for the taking..........werent taken.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Well i don't think a Celtic fan(Begg) and a Hibs Fan(Paterson) would have any love for either team.

 

As for the foul/dive it depends what you class as a foul and what you don't class as a foul.

 

One thing about Miko though is that it's probably going to take an opposition player with a baseball bat to smack him over the head with it before a Scottish ref gives him a foul.

 

I saw it with my own eyes. He WAS fouled!

[nodialogue]

I saw it with my own eyes.

 

As have most other people.

[nanananananana-angus]

Did we do enough. Did we have enough or were we good enough to go through there today and beat a very poor Rangers team.

 

No we werent !!

 

We didnt go with the right Gerrintaethem attitude that we had to go there with. We lost a really poor goal defensively and we didnt respond for the rest of the game. At no time did we have a concerted period of pressure.

 

It was a typical Hearts at Ibrox performance in fact

 

If only we could do that through in the weeg OAG.I watched the game in the pub today and it was obvious that Hearts, like any other team playing through there, quite simply aren't allowed to tackle without being penalised.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

As have most other people.

 

Very good Read the context - it seems as if Blackdog was forming his opinion based on the radio pundits.

[Only a Game]

If only we could do that through in the weeg OAG.I watched the game in the pub today and it was obvious that Hearts, like any other team playing through there, quite simply aren't allowed to tackle without being penalised.

 

 

Tackling is something you do when you dont have the ball

 

I'm talking about when we HAD the ball. We should have been far more direct and agressive with it.

[nodialogue]

Very good Read the context - it seems as if Blackdog was forming his opinion based on the radio pundits.

 

'seems'

 

I have seen it also and whilst very slight contact, it WAS A DIVE.

[nanananananana-angus]

Tackling is something you do when you dont have the ball

 

I'm talking about when we HAD the ball. We should have been far more direct and agressive with it.

 

I appreciate what you're saying,but when you can't tackle without being penalised you're always going to be on the back foot and unless you can knock the ball around like Barcelona when you do have the ball it's always going to difficult to retain any sort of possession,especially at ibrox where the hun can generally kick you off the park with impunity.

Like I say, the days of us diddy teams going through to the weeg and making a game of it are long gone me thinks.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

'seems'

 

I have seen it also and whilst very slight contact, it WAS A DIVE.

 

I agree he, to used that old cliche, "went down easily".

 

However, it doesn't take away from the fact that Papac put out an arm to block his run. That's unsportsmanlike conduct and is a foul, pure and simple.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I appreciate what you're saying,but when you can't tackle without being penalised you're always going to be on the back foot and unless you can knock the ball around like Barcelona when you do have the ball it's always going to difficult to retain any sort of possession,especially at ibrox where the hun can generally kick you off the park with impunity.

Like I say, the days of us diddy teams going through to the weeg and making a game of it are long gone me thinks.

 

I disagree. I thought we made a game of it for long spells. The trouble was our play in and around the Rangers box where our creativity was lacking and some of our final balls were dreadful.

[nodialogue]

I agree he, to used that old cliche, "went down easily".

 

However, it doesn't take away from the fact that Papac put out an arm to block his run. That's unsportsmanlike conduct and is a foul, pure and simple.

 

I agree.

 

I didn't dispute it was a foul however Miko's theatrical dive caused this whole problem. If he stayed on his feet then we would be discussing if his 2nd yellow warranted a straight red.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I agree.

 

I didn't dispute it was a foul however Miko's theatrical dive caused this whole problem. If he stayed on his feet then we would be discussing if his 2nd yellow warranted a straight red.

 

If he had stayed on his feet he wouldn't have even won a free-kick yet he would have lost possession.

[nodialogue]

If he had stayed on his feet he wouldn't have even won a free-kick yet he would have lost possession.

 

Who knows?

 

He is the victim of his own actions.

[nanananananana-angus]

I disagree. I thought we made a game of it for long spells. The trouble was our play in and around the Rangers box where our creativity was lacking and some of our final balls were dreadful.

 

Especially in the 1st half and early on in the 2nd.I think ultimately it wasn't rangers who ground out a result today it was Dougal.

[bighusref]

It?s obvious that the Miko incident(s) and the penalty (or lack of it) incidents are going to dominate threads on JKB for the next wee while.

 

Yes it looks like some dodgy and inconsistent refereeing punished us today but there are far bigger issues to be addressed than whether it was a deliberate handball in the box or if Miko dived.

 

Today we went to play a Rangers team in crisis.

 

A team that has been struggling not just the last few weeks but since mid April this year.

 

Yet again however, (and we can?t blame The GFA for this one) we didn?t create enough chances (Audrey?s miss the only one of note) and simply failed to show up at Ibrox once again.

 

After an initial feel good factor following the Motherwell game we are back to reality with today?s game proving what most of us, (if we?re honest) knew last season?that too many players simply aren?t good enough.

 

Csaba has impressed me with most of his media comments and with the way he has tried to get the team passing the ball more.

 

Surely if any good can come from today it is that it has once again highlighted that we need much more quality in the wing back positions, in midfield and most importantly?up front.

 

Hopefully, rather than moan about conspiracy theories and a Weegie mafia Romanov will assist Csaba in bringing in genuine quality players before the transfer window shuts.

 

Otherwise, whilst I doubt we will find ourselves in the depths of despair we were in for much of last term it could be a long season ahead?dodgy refs or no!

 

Very fair points.

 

IF Andrew Driver could learn to cross or pass to a Hearts man then we could have had a few chances, in fact, all three of our wide players (Mikoliunas was on for such a short time he doesn't count) yesterday failed to do anything with loads of space.

 

The refereeing issues ARE huge though.

 

At the time I was screaming that the refs were wrong to send of Mikoliunas, wrong to turn down our penalty and wrong to give R@ng*rs a penalty.

 

Mikoliunas' second booking was a stonewaller, the first was questionable. Our penalty claim was one of those that you get sometimes and sometimes you don't and their penalty was clear on the replay IMO.

 

The issue I have is that we NEVER get the touch and go decisions against the Glasgow two yet they very regularly get the same decisions. Why was Kenny Miller not booked for a terrible tackle on Wallace moments after booking Mikoliunas for a similar tackle?

[Fareastjambo]

The poor decisions made by the ref today might not have affected the final result, but does anyone think that even players outwith the OF now know that most decisions will go against them? Very few teams go to Ibrox or Parkhead with a firm belief that they can win, one of the reasons being the refereeing bias shown to the OF, seen already in only the first two games of the season. Nothing will change unless the other SPL teams take a stance - they have had chances to back each othe up (Levein and McPherson just two examples), but none have had the courage to do it. There is strength in numbers and until that happens the status quo will remain. We Scots are very parochial, none more so than the SFA who run scared every time they think that Celtic or Rangers might be knocked off their perch! Even the odd remark from the media now shows that more and more people are seeing the situation for what it is - blatant bias shown towards the OF and it has to stop. How we can achieve this is the big question.