Vlad and Levein

[brellierlegend]

Have been shot down by the media and fined heavily by the GFA for telling the truth in my opinion.

 

Does anyone else agree that these guys have been spot on with what they have been saying about the Scottish Mafia (Vlads comments) and that potentially you'd be better off not turning up and just letting them have the points (Leveins comments)?

 

I wait with baited breath to our visit to Ipox this Saturday. Will it be a penalty they get or if we are winning how about 15 minutes of added time?

 

Absolute ****bags.

[Jam Tarts 1874]

There will be the usual cheatery at Ibrox, it's up to Hearts to go there and be strong and work it right up the smelly wee fuds!

[JamboAl]

There will be the usual cheatery at Ibrox, it's up to Hearts to go there and be strong and work it right up the smelly wee fuds!

 

You'll get a good idea tomorrow when the GFA announce the ref appointments and ours will be from Glasgow or at least the west of Scotland.

My guess will be Charlie Richmond of Auchinleck or Craig Thomson from Paisley which is as geographically neutral as you're likely to get from that incompetent shower.

[The Old Tolbooth]

I'd love to see the clubs telling Scottish refs to GTF and pay more out of their own clubs funds to get either English, or foreign refs in, even if it costs ?5,000 per game, it would be worth it to freeze the cheats of Scottish football out and get our game back on a level playing field.

[cosanostra]

It's all about Hearts not conceding early on.

 

If we can keep it at 0-0 for the first half, the Huns will start to brick it and the orcs in the stands will aim their hate at the players. If we get to 0-0 at half time, i think we could beat them.

[Coco]

I think that if these sorts of comments are to be made then they should be backed up with evidence. Otherwise they will continue to be punished with fines etc.

[brellierlegend]

I think that if these sorts of comments are to be made then they should be backed up with evidence. Otherwise they will continue to be punished with fines etc.

 

Anyone watching the Dundee Utd Rankgers game at Ipox last season could see that something was far wrong with the officiating. It went way beyond incompetance. Also, going back to our New Years day game with Celtic when Fyssas was sent off. There have been vast amounts of incidents over the years that suggest blatant old firm bias.

 

Evidence i.e. phone call recordings etc is very hard to come by and there has to be a real desire for justice to be served. The West coast Scottish Mafia have no interest in this so sleeping dogs will be left to lie.

[McJambo]

Anyone watching the Dundee Utd Rankgers game at Ipox last season could see that something was far wrong with the officiating. It went way beyond incompetance. Also, going back to our New Years day game with Celtic when Fyssas was sent off. There have been vast amounts of incidents over the years that suggest blatant old firm bias.

 

Evidence i.e. phone call recordings etc is very hard to come by and there has to be a real desire for justice to be served. The West coast Scottish Mafia have no interest in this so sleeping dogs will be left to lie.

 

People always seem to bring up the Fyssas incident, 9 times out of 10 you get sent off for that tackle, yes video evidence showed there was no contact.

 

But in real time, in that stadium, it looked every bit a sending off.

 

The real bit of bias that day was the fact that Balde absolutely halfed Cesnauskis when last man and only got a yellow.

[colinmaroon]

I think that if these sorts of comments are to be made then they should be backed up with evidence. Otherwise they will continue to be punished with fines etc.

 

 

 

Do you believe in the wind?

 

 

Can you see it?

 

No, but you can see the b****y trees bending over when it blows!!!

 

 

Do I believe that there's institutional bias in favour of first, Rangers, and then Celtic?

 

Can I prove it?

 

 

Not so far, but I can see the evidence of my own eyes, season after season and I can see the b****y refs bending over.

 

 

Only the most blinkered observer could deny examples like yesterday at Darkheid, and especially, McCurry's demonstration of "integrity" at BroxPox last season. And what about Brines with Takis? And . . . oh, I haven't got long enough to list them all -

 

"if very one of them to was be written down, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written." John 21.25

 

 

 

 

 

.................

[Coco]

Do you believe in the wind?

 

 

Can you see it?

 

No, but you can see the b****y trees bending over when it blows!!!

 

 

Do I believe that there's institutional bias in favour of first, Rangers, and then Celtic?

 

Can I prove it?

 

 

Not so far, but I can see the evidence of my own eyes, season after season and I can see the b****y refs bending over.

 

 

Only the most blinkered observer could deny examples like yesterday at Darkheid, and especially, McCurry's demonstration of "integrity" at BroxPox last season. And what about Brines with Takis? And . . . oh, I haven't got long enough to list them all -

 

"if very one of them to was be written down, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written." John 21.25

 

 

 

 

 

.................

 

How does the Banks' decision on Saturday fit? Or the failure to send Stewart off for a nasty tackle after he was booked? Was Brines biased in not booking Clarkson or in booking Ksnavicius?

 

Second guessing individual subjective decisions during games does not prove bias or cheating. It might reflect confirmation bias by the watcher however.

[Drylaw Hearts]

 

Do I believe that there's institutional bias in favour of first, Rangers, and then Celtic?

 

Can I prove it?

 

 

Not so far, but I can see the evidence of my own eyes, season after season and I can see the b****y refs bending over.

 

If the bias is favoured firstly towards Rangers how the hell have Celtic won the SPL 3 years on the trot ?

 

How did we manage to finish 2nd ?

 

If I were SDM I'd be asking serious questions to this 'institution'.

[The Old Tolbooth]

The OF definitely get the majority of the dodgy decisions imo, and now that Celtic have had the first dodgy one of the season ( didn't take them long did it), I feel that Rangers will be awarded the next one, and guess who's at Castle Greyskull on Saturday!

[brellierlegend]

The OF definitely get the majority of the dodgy decisions imo, and now that Celtic have had the first dodgy one of the season ( didn't take them long did it), I feel that Rangers will be awarded the next one, and guess who's at Castle Greyskull on Saturday!

 

Correct. The stats over the years for pens given against the old firm at home will be unbelievable. I saw them a couple of years back and it beggars belief.

 

I am sure someone will have access to these figures.

[colinmaroon]

If the bias is favoured firstly towards Rangers how the hell have Celtic won the SPL 3 years on the trot ?

 

How did we manage to finish 2nd ?

 

If I were SDM I'd be asking serious questions to this 'institution'.

 

 

 

DH I'm not sure if you're just trying to stir it for fun, or if you're really serious?

 

I hope it's the first because if you are serious, then you're being very shallow!

 

It's obvious that any corruption has to be masked.

 

It's obvious that part of that masking is sheer incompetence by some officials, which provides the ideal "I hold my hands up excuse" farce, such as we witnessed with the "Man of Integrity", Mike McCurry!!!

 

 

It's obvious that when Rangers are as bad as they've been, that if Celtic (or Hearts in 2005-6) get above them it would require extraordinary intervention - a bit of which we experienced against the MARGINALLY second team in the mafia family - when decisions at Tynecastle and Darkheid, not withstanding the huge points difference, were instrumental in the results on the day.

 

It's obvious if you get a good enough team, and you're well ahead in ability (a la Aberdeen under Fergie) then you will win things - but if it's close the majority of controversial decisions will go their way.

 

We all remember Ferguson's blatant handball, ignored by Mr Integrity in the CIS semi - but think back to the 4-2 game at Tynie earlier in the season. Same ref and he gave both a penalty - but it would have been especially outrageous if ours had been denied - and we eventually cruised to a win. However, their 2nd goal, which just could have sparked a fight back against a less-confidant Hearts team on the day, was preceded by another blatant handball, by Thomson I think.

 

So even when we think all's good and proper and above board, because we've got the result, it's still going on.

 

 

Only in football, and in obviously Scottish football, can someone get fined ?5,000 for telling the plain truth - in other words, "Accept the status quo, because if you don't, if you try to topple the Ivory Tower, you'll be punished!"

 

 

................

[Marmeladent?rtchen]

I agree with both points of view.

 

The league has the possibility of being corrupt. Just looked at what happened to Italian league 2 years ago. So it can happen! Some decision I have seen in football have terrible, the last minute rangers goal against us and Tottenham's goal that never was against Man U etc.

 

I also agree you have to be the best, to be best. Its up for the team to win and ride any poor decisions. As most Rangers and Celtic games are televised I think poor decisions are more highlighted and its easy to shout west coast bias. For example who would care if ICT got a dodgy penalty against St Mirren. It wound only get a short mention on Scotsport and we would probably not even notice.

 

I do think managers should have the right to complain. But referees are only human and will make mistakes and be tricked. I'm not against the idea bringing in some technology to the game to give the ref's some back up and support them. More money in football then rugby and they have the system working.

[269miles]

I agree with both points of view.

 

The league has the possibility of being corrupt. Just looked at what happened to Italian league 2 years ago. So it can happen! Some decision I have seen in football have terrible, the last minute rangers goal against us and Tottenham's goal that never was against Man U etc.

 

I also agree you have to be the best, to be best. Its up for the team to win and ride any poor decisions. As most Rangers and Celtic games are televised I think poor decisions are more highlighted and its easy to shout west coast bias. For example who would care if ICT got a dodgy penalty against St Mirren. It wound only get a short mention on Scotsport and we would probably not even notice.

 

I do think managers should have the right to complain. But referees are only human and will make mistakes and be tricked. I'm not against the idea bringing in some technology to the game to give the ref's some back up and support them. More money in football then rugby and they have the system working.

 

If this was a European tie and it was discovered that the ref who had just awarded a debatable penalty against one of the OF was found to be related to a recent former player of said club and is in all probability a fan of said club , what do you think the response of the OF and the Scottish media would be ?

 

For the reord I don't think Scottish officals are corrupt (apart from one notorious incident), they are simply weak and have too much at stake in order to be truly impartial. Glasgow refs for Glasgow teams.

[Fozzyonthefence]

People always seem to bring up the Fyssas incident, 9 times out of 10 you get sent off for that tackle, yes video evidence showed there was no contact.

 

But in real time, in that stadium, it looked every bit a sending off.

 

The real bit of bias that day was the fact that Balde absolutely halfed Cesnauskis when last man and only got a yellow.

 

Agree with most of that but with the Fyssas incident I don't think it was an obvious goal scoring opportunity as Maloney was not running in directly on goal, therefore it should have been yellow (if there was contact). So a double mistake!

[Marmeladent?rtchen]

If this was a European tie and it was discovered that the ref who had just awarded a debatable penalty against one of the OF was found to be related to a recent former player of said club and is in all probability a fan of said club , what do you think the response of the OF and the Scottish media would be ?

 

For the reord I don't think Scottish officals are corrupt (apart from one notorious incident), they are simply weak and have too much at stake in order to be truly impartial. Glasgow refs for Glasgow teams.

 

 

To your 1st point, I think we would never hear the end of it. But if the same thing happened to 1st division team we would never here of it at all.

 

To your 2nd I kind of agree. Part of it could be just the pressure of referring and Old Firm game. If the OF don't win I'm sure there will be some arse could give them abuse when they are in the supermarket with the family, scratch the car, post a jobbie through the letter box etc. Not so much corruption then ensuring a quite life.

[269miles]

To your 1st point, I think we would never hear the end of it. But if the same thing happened to 1st division team we would never here of it at all.

 

To your 2nd I kind of agree. Part of it could be just the pressure of referring and Old Firm game. If the OF don't win I'm sure there will be some arse could give them abuse when they are in the supermarket with the family, scratch the car, post a jobbie through the letter box etc. Not so much corruption then ensuring a quite life.

 

My sentiments entirely.

 

And when you think about Hugh Dallas getting his windaes tanned a few years back , you can see why it's simpler to take the easy route.

[Drylaw Hearts]

DH I'm not sure if you're just trying to stir it for fun, or if you're really serious?

 

I hope it's the first because if you are serious, then you're being very shallow!

 

It's obvious that any corruption has to be masked.

 

It's obvious that part of that masking is sheer incompetence by some officials, which provides the ideal "I hold my hands up excuse" farce, such as we witnessed with the "Man of Integrity", Mike McCurry!!!

 

 

It's obvious that when Rangers are as bad as they've been, that if Celtic (or Hearts in 2005-6) get above them it would require extraordinary intervention - a bit of which we experienced against the MARGINALLY second team in the mafia family - when decisions at Tynecastle and Darkheid, not withstanding the huge points difference, were instrumental in the results on the day.

 

It's obvious if you get a good enough team, and you're well ahead in ability (a la Aberdeen under Fergie) then you will win things - but if it's close the majority of controversial decisions will go their way.

 

We all remember Ferguson's blatant handball, ignored by Mr Integrity in the CIS semi - but think back to the 4-2 game at Tynie earlier in the season. Same ref and he gave both a penalty - but it would have been especially outrageous if ours had been denied - and we eventually cruised to a win. However, their 2nd goal, which just could have sparked a fight back against a less-confidant Hearts team on the day, was preceded by another blatant handball, by Thomson I think.

 

So even when we think all's good and proper and above board, because we've got the result, it's still going on.

 

 

Only in football, and in obviously Scottish football, can someone get fined ?5,000 for telling the plain truth - in other words, "Accept the status quo, because if you don't, if you try to topple the Ivory Tower, you'll be punished!"

 

 

................

 

 

I am deadly serious.

 

 

You have used an example of an incident at Hampden when Ferguson clearly handled the ball just before scoring.

 

Now I'm not saying he didn't because quite clearly he did and it was an awful error by the Ref.

 

But so was NOT giving a penalty only seconds earlier for a blatent handball by Goncalves.

 

But you fail to mention this incident.

 

Why ?

 

This is the problem imo. Football fans in general only ever see he decisions that go against their team and rarely remember the ones that do go our way.

 

We won the Scottish Cup in 1998 and there were 2 borderline decisions that both went our way.

 

A cheat of a Ref would/could have made that game so very different.

 

So why didn't he ?

 

 

There are some serious flaws in the way our game is run but mouthing off about to the press is not the way to sort it.

 

Someone needs to compile a dossier or a dvd of all these incidents that have helped the OF get so many decisions and request the backing of the rest of the member Clubs.

 

But they must also be prepared to be given evidence that we have had plenty of decision go our way also.

 

 

Until you can prove otherwise it will remain speculation.

 

 

Bigger, more currupt nations than Scotland have shown that it can be proven.

 

Italy for example.

 

 

IMO the majority of Refs are weak and give the bigger clubs the benefit of the doubt too easily and too often.

 

If you were to ask any football fan of any small Club, in any country, they will probably tell you the same thing.

 

 

IIRC, it wasn't so long ago Man Utd (or it may have Liverpool) went several Season without conceding a Penalty at home - does that sound right ?

[PJ1970]

For the education of the ignorant may I point out that the Goncalves "handball" was not a penalty under the laws of the game.

 

He had his arm down his side and therefore was in a "natural" position.

 

You can't remove your arms during play so the rules recognise this.

 

Anybody that claims that the two incidents balance up is just an OF (GTF) WUM.

[Drylaw Hearts]

For the education of the ignorant may I point out that the Goncalves "handball" was not a penalty under the laws of the game.

 

He had his arm down his side and therefore was in a "natural" position.

 

You can't remove your arms during play so the rules recognise this.

 

Anybody that claims that the two incidents balance up is just an OF (GTF) WUM.

 

I'm sure you would have said the same if it was a Rangers defender who handled in his own 18 yard box.

 

[Thunderstruck]

Whether corruption exists or not is probably irrelevant, what matters is the PERCEPTION that corruption exists. This is the cancer that is spreading through Scottish football and which will eventually kill it off completely.

 

Football clubs nowdays need investment if they are to make any meaningful progress in domestic or european competitions. Who is going to pump good money after bad if the general perception is that they will do no better than 2nd as the league is as rigged as a slot machine in Vegas.

 

Speak to fans of any team outside the OF and they are all of a similar view in that, all other things being equal, the KEY decisions will go the way of the Ugly Sisters.

 

What to do about it? Well, Vlad has made a good start and, despite his "off the wall" posturings has been successful in airing the problem. He has had support in his claims from Levein and Jefferies amongst others but, for real success, every other SPL team has to make a stand for true equality in SPL. Threatening a breakaway or holding out for a bigger share of the TV income might be good starting points.