Kickback Snowball Effect - "No money for players"

[Martin_T]

It's amazing how one opinion expressed on Kickback can quickly become accepted as fact. The latest being that there is apparently no money available for new players whatsoever, this coming after Csaba stated that he doesn't have ?2million odd quid to buy a top finisher.

 

I've had a look through some of the articles that relate to this on the Hearts website. If we take the club at it's own word, there does appear to still be funds available for player recruitment.

 

http://www.heartsfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/HeartsNewsDetail/0,,10289~1339711,00.html - "The club will continue to invest where it is wise to do so...the club will continue to take a prudent approach to off field expenditure"

 

Firstly http://www.heartsfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/HeartsNewsDetail/0,,10289~1340593,00.html - 08/07/2008 - Korobochka confirms that signing targets have been lined up, but will not be signed up without the new managers consent.

 

http://www.heartsfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/HeartsNewsDetail/0,,10289~1350878,00.html - The club announce a trial for Mike Tullberg, a striker who cost ?850,000 a year previous, having been playing for Serie A side Reggina.

 

http://www.heartsfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/HeartsNewsDetail/0,,10289~1354538,00.html - Andy Driver, a key first team player, signs a new 5 year deal. Promising young players such as McGowan, Husband and Robinson have all signed new contracts over the course of the summer.

 

 

I would say the evidence points to Hearts simply taking a far more prudent approach to first team expenditure, rather than all funding for new players having dried up. There is increased reliance on the Academy (as a club of our size should do), but where a good deal presents itself, the club is still in a position to act.

 

I think we will see a couple of more signings before the transfer window, but these will be younger players, perhaps on loan with a view to buying, as opposed to the near fatal levels of expenditure in the past on the likes of Beslija.

[Guest GhostHunter]

Beslija....whatever happened to him ?

 

In my Morphine World, did I miss something ?

[Dazo]

I think the problem is we have been screaming for a quality Central defender and striker for a long time that prudent purchases could have been had by now. If money is available there really is no excuse if money is not available then fine let us know.

[Mild-Mannered James]

Beslija's back in Edinburgh, injured again of course.

[Dazo]

Beslija....whatever happened to him ?

 

In my Morphine World, did I miss something ?

 

I will give you 1 guess, begins with I and ends D with 5 letters in-between.

[bighusref]

I will give you 1 guess, begins with I and ends D with 5 letters in-between.

 

...and supported by crutches.

[Dazo]

...and supported by crutches.

 

Christ don't make it to easy for him.

[Guest jambomickey]

i think that we will make signings but i think when we do it's us through the official website who will find out first! i just think hearts are cool towards the press now

[Fat Striker]

i think that we will make signings but i think when we do it's us through the official website who will find out first! i just think hearts are cool towards the press now

 

Which let's face it is the best way to do it.

 

I don't think it's wise to go shouting from the roof-tops about specific players.

[Bootboy100]

It's amazing how one opinion expressed on Kickback can quickly become accepted as fact. The latest being that there is apparently no money available for new players whatsoever, this coming after Csaba stated that he doesn't have ?2million odd quid to buy a top finisher.

 

I've had a look through some of the articles that relate to this on the Hearts website. If we take the club at it's own word, there does appear to still be funds available for player recruitment.

 

http://www.heartsfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/HeartsNewsDetail/0,,10289~1339711,00.html - "The club will continue to invest where it is wise to do so...the club will continue to take a prudent approach to off field expenditure"

 

Firstly http://www.heartsfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/HeartsNewsDetail/0,,10289~1340593,00.html - 08/07/2008 - Korobochka confirms that signing targets have been lined up, but will not be signed up without the new managers consent.

 

http://www.heartsfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/HeartsNewsDetail/0,,10289~1350878,00.html - The club announce a trial for Mike Tullberg, a striker who cost ?850,000 a year previous, having been playing for Serie A side Reggina.

 

http://www.heartsfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/HeartsNewsDetail/0,,10289~1354538,00.html - Andy Driver, a key first team player, signs a new 5 year deal. Promising young players such as McGowan, Husband and Robinson have all signed new contracts over the course of the summer.

 

 

I would say the evidence points to Hearts simply taking a far more prudent approach to first team expenditure, rather than all funding for new players having dried up. There is increased reliance on the Academy (as a club of our size should do), but where a good deal presents itself, the club is still in a position to act.

 

I think we will see a couple of more signings before the transfer window, but these will be younger players, perhaps on loan with a view to buying, as opposed to the near fatal levels of expenditure in the past on the likes of Beslija.

 

Martin yet again I cant help but agree with what you say. Sadly there are indviduals who are soooo pessimistic about Hearts (and I can understand why to a degree) that they will never believe a word that comes out of Tynecastle and will look far too much into quotes from employees and turn them into conspiracies just like the god damn Americans (apologies to any non conspiracy making Americans).

[Debut 4]

If Csaba does have a big say in new signings then it`s understandable that it`s taking a little more time to get things sorted.

 

We probably got Obua because he was in the spotlight at the time after being on trial at West Ham so he snapped him up quickly.

 

I like the way things are being done. He`s taking his time(Csaba) to assess the squad from youngsters to the older players rather than swamping the squad with daft numbers and having the mish-mash of a set-up we`ve had for the last two years.

 

I don`t want us to accomodate players for the sake of it. I want Csaba to take his time and get players in he thinks are the right ones for Hearts and players he will play.

[joe.gausden]

...and supported by crutches.

 

at least some mod edit is getting to support him!!

[scott herbertson]

(apologies to any non conspiracy making Americans).

 

 

Those would be the ones who have been got at by the FBI]

 

[hawaii]

Would it not be sensible to see if Obua gets a WP from the Hibs panel before we try and get in more players?? Just a thought.

[Eckauskas]

It's a sad indication of the times when KB'ers take the word of 'somebody in the know' over that of quotes coming directly from the club.

[Harry Palmer]

I'm not too worried about the lack of signings, but then I'm not a KB legend with over a thousand posts so my opinion doesnot count. I would be happy seeing some stability with gradual improvement in league performance whilst promoting the apparent wealth of young talent that a few seem to think we have, over the next few seasons.

[Eckauskas]

I said it on Sunday.

 

On paper, we have a very good squad. If Csaba can get the best out of the players he has, we could still push for 4th spot.

 

I fully expect to be shot down here, but I'll give a couple of examples. Ivaskevicius against Rangers, both at home and Ibrox. He had a ?9m full back in his back pocket for the time he spent on the pitch at Tynecastle and was very, very good against Whittaker at Ibrox, which says to me that there is a player in there. One good game may not make a player, but if you have no talent at all, you just don't go out and play well against professionals.

 

Also, we all know that Miko goes through purple patches and can be very, very dangerous on his day. If CL could get a consistent level of form out of Miko, this might be the season where he really turns it on.

 

The same could be said for Zal. At the end of 06/07, he was first choice CB with Berra and looked very capable. We've all seen that Nade is also a tidy player when fit and trying. Juho's goalscoring records speak for themselves as well.

 

If CL can get these guys motivated and playing well week in, week out, we could rise out of the doldrum we're in right now. As I said before, if you're completely untalented, you'll never have that 1 game in 15 where you're a candidate for MOTM.

[Harry Palmer]

Eck, you will be shot down once the 'select few' read later in the morning; however I agree with you.

 

All the squad has really been lacking is guidance and whilst they could look on here for that from the numerous 'managers' that all supporters are, they will, I hope, benefit from someone that is actually providing a sense of stability as they turn up for training each day. Rather than wondering what the next day will bring, I hope they are thinking 'I want to do better in (example) area'.

As I've said the lack of signings does not concern me. We have waited months for a manager, maybe we'll have to wait months for signings. All I want is an improvement on last season, min top 6 although why there has to be this ridiculous split is beyond me, change is needed.

[monkfish1979]

I said it on Sunday.

 

On paper, we have a very good squad. If Csaba can get the best out of the players he has, we could still push for 4th spot.

 

I fully expect to be shot down here, but I'll give a couple of examples. Ivaskevicius against Rangers, both at home and Ibrox. He had a ?9m full back in his back pocket for the time he spent on the pitch at Tynecastle and was very, very good against Whittaker at Ibrox, which says to me that there is a player in there. One good game may not make a player, but if you have no talent at all, you just don't go out and play well against professionals.

 

Also, we all know that Miko goes through purple patches and can be very, very dangerous on his day. If CL could get a consistent level of form out of Miko, this might be the season where he really turns it on.

 

The same could be said for Zal. At the end of 06/07, he was first choice CB with Berra and looked very capable. We've all seen that Nade is also a tidy player when fit and trying. Juho's goalscoring records speak for themselves as well.

 

If CL can get these guys motivated and playing well week in, week out, we could rise out of the doldrum we're in right now. As I said before, if you're completely untalented, you'll never have that 1 game in 15 where you're a candidate for MOTM.

 

Nice to see some sense being spoken on jkb, mate. Nade in particular has the potential to be the oppositions worst nightmare if he sorts his attitude and fitness out. IMHO. It'll also be interesting to see what Csaba makes of our much maligned younger strikers - Mole in particular.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Would it not be sensible to see if Obua gets a WP from the Hibs panel before we try and get in more players?? Just a thought.

 

Why exactly? We need a couple of strikers worthy of the name, regardless of whether or not Obua signs. So why wait to see whether we sing Obua or not? Just makes no sense IMO.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

I'm not too worried about the lack of signings, but then I'm not a KB legend with over a thousand posts so my opinion doesnot count. I would be happy seeing some stability with gradual improvement in league performance whilst promoting the apparent wealth of young talent that a few seem to think we have, over the next few seasons.

 

Apologies if I'm wrong, but sounds very much like the opinion of someone who isn't going to actually have to endure sitting through said matches whilst we wait six months to implement each stage of our development.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

I think we will see a couple of more signings before the transfer window, but these will be younger players, perhaps on loan with a view to buying, as opposed to the near fatal levels of expenditure in the past on the likes of Beslija.

 

Young players, so NOT the quality and experience which our manager quite rightly identified is missing from HMFC's squad when he arrived. I don't understand why people are happy enough to accept the manager not getting what he wants.

 

Yes, we might have to put up with it if worse comes to worse. But you're not going to convince me we're doing "the right thing" by NOT getting in the type of players the managers feels we need.

[Charlie-Brown]

Young players, so NOT the quality and experience which our manager quite rightly identified is missing from HMFC's squad when he arrived. I don't understand why people are happy enough to accept the manager not getting what he wants.

 

Yes, we might have to put up with it if worse comes to worse. But you're not going to convince me we're doing "the right thing" by NOT getting in the type of players the managers feels we need.

 

The manager can only sign the type of players he feels he needs if there is sufficient money in the pot to do so - Hearts are still trying to reduce the wage bill and there are still some high earners on the wage bill who probably need to leave to free up money to offer potential new signings so I think it's probably the case Csaba needs to get some out before he can bring some in otherwise the wage bill & squad numbers will ge going in the wrong direction again and I don't think the bean counters at UKIO Bankas are being as free with funds as they were in the past.

[Martin_T]

Young players, so NOT the quality and experience which our manager quite rightly identified is missing from HMFC's squad when he arrived. I don't understand why people are happy enough to accept the manager not getting what he wants.

 

Yes, we might have to put up with it if worse comes to worse. But you're not going to convince me we're doing "the right thing" by NOT getting in the type of players the managers feels we need.

 

JR, there is not a manager anywhere who has a carte blance to bring in any player who he wants. In an ideal world, Hearts would bring in a couple of experienced internationals, but the club is ?24 million in debt (ideally we wouldn't have that either). The most prudent form of expenditure would be for younger players, with a higher potential for profit once sold on.

 

Even without signings, there is a possibility that Csaba will get far greater performances out of existing players. Take Noel Hunt at Dundee United, couldn't hit a coo's erse with a banjo prior to Levein's arrival, Craig turns him into a 15 goal a season ?600,000 player with good coaching. I've also made the point about the Motherwell squad under McGhee several times on this forum.

[Charlie-Brown]

You also have to factor in wage & transfer fee inflation that has resulted from the available money that the english premiership and championship can offer - this has pushed up prices and wage demands for decent players - and we have seen most of the SPL struggle to bring in as many players of the quality they'd like, the Old Firm included.

[The Real Maroonblood]

I said it on Sunday.

 

On paper, we have a very good squad. If Csaba can get the best out of the players he has, we could still push for 4th spot.I fully expect to be shot down here, but I'll give a couple of examples. Ivaskevicius against Rangers, both at home and Ibrox. He had a ?9m full back in his back pocket for the time he spent on the pitch at Tynecastle and was very, very good against Whittaker at Ibrox, which says to me that there is a player in there. One good game may not make a player, but if you have no talent at all, you just don't go out and play well against professionals.

 

Also, we all know that Miko goes through purple patches and can be very, very dangerous on his day. If CL could get a consistent level of form out of Miko, this might be the season where he really turns it on.

 

The same could be said for Zal. At the end of 06/07, he was first choice CB with Berra and looked very capable. We've all seen that Nade is also a tidy player when fit and trying. Juho's goalscoring records speak for themselves as well.

 

If CL can get these guys motivated and playing well week in, week out, we could rise out of the doldrum we're in right now. As I said before, if you're completely untalented, you'll never have that 1 game in 15 where you're a candidate for MOTM.

 

Delete very good and substitute average. Also substitue 4th spot for top six finish. Miko, miracles can happen.

Apart from that quite a good post.

[scott herbertson]

JR, there is not a manager anywhere who has a carte blance to bring in any player who he wants. In an ideal world, Hearts would bring in a couple of experienced internationals, but the club is ?24 million in debt (ideally we wouldn't have that either). The most prudent form of expenditure would be for younger players, with a higher potential for profit once sold on.

 

Even without signings, there is a possibility that Csaba will get far greater performances out of existing players. Take Noel Hunt at Dundee United, couldn't hit a coo's erse with a banjo prior to Levein's arrival, Craig turns him into a 15 goal a season ?600,000 player with good coaching. I've also made the point about the Motherwell squad under McGhee several times on this forum.

 

I agree with all of that martin, but I still think we need a good target/ hold the ball up front man - a skill that is hard for young pleyers to develop and i see no-one on our books who looks likely to develop this. I have high hopes that Csaba will get someone in to play this role by August end, but obviously not a ?2million player or anyone on existing high wages.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

JR, there is not a manager anywhere who has a carte blance to bring in any player who he wants. In an ideal world, Hearts would bring in a couple of experienced internationals, but the club is ?24 million in debt (ideally we wouldn't have that either). The most prudent form of expenditure would be for younger players, with a higher potential for profit once sold on.

 

Agreed.

 

Even without signings, there is a possibility that Csaba will get far greater performances out of existing players. Take Noel Hunt at Dundee United, couldn't hit a coo's erse with a banjo prior to Levein's arrival, Craig turns him into a 15 goal a season ?600,000 player with good coaching. I've also made the point about the Motherwell squad under McGhee several times on this forum.

 

Agreed.

 

And seems you agree that ideally, we would bring in the experience and quality the manager identified which we need. And the managers dream that "I hope against Motherwell we will have a new goalkeeper and two or three new players in the squad" would have been fulfilled.

 

http://www.heartsfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/HeartsNewsDetail/0,,10289~1352642,00.html

 

So whats the problem. Seems we're only disagreeing over whether some of us choose to want it all and want it now, or whether others are quite happy to accept a bit less for now and hope it gradually improves over the centuries.

 

Those of us with season tickets (which I am one) are all going to have to put up with whatever is put on show on Saturday. Personally, I don't see why it's an issue that I want Hearts to be the best that they can.

[WeeToonJambo]

I agree with all of that martin, but I still think we need a good target/ hold the ball up front man - a skill that is hard for young pleyers to develop and i see no-one on our books who looks likely to develop this. I have high hopes that Csaba will get someone in to play this role by August end, but obviously not a ?2million player or anyone on existing high wages.

 

Is this not what he hoped to get with Tullberg? It's unfortunate he was injured in his first game so we haven't had a chance to see what he can do. Once he's fit he might just be the one. I don't know, just guessing.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

You also have to factor in wage & transfer fee inflation that has resulted from the available money that the english premiership and championship can offer - this has pushed up prices and wage demands for decent players - and we have seen most of the SPL struggle to bring in as many players of the quality they'd like, the Old Firm included.

 

Which is all fair enough. But Csaba talked about a few signings in the next few days, and was talking about "quality and experience".

 

So if it's a money thing, what changed from those statements a couple of weeks back, to now?

[scott herbertson]

Is this not what he hoped to get with Tullberg? It's unfortunate he was injured in his first game so we haven't had a chance to see what he can do. Once he's fit he might just be the one. I don't know, just guessing.

 

That is what I think - i wasn't very impressed with his record, but he does seem to be the player type. Personally I would prefer a British style Jimmy Bone type of player, not for patriotic or anti johnnyforeigner reasons, but just because I think there are old pros around who can do that in the British game and who are used to the clogging from british centre halves they will receive....

[scott herbertson]

Which is all fair enough. But Csaba talked about a few signings in the next few days, and was talking about "quality and experience".

 

So if it's a money thing, what changed from those statements a couple of weeks back, to now?

 

Remember he has ben in Africa for the last couple of years. It may just be harder than he thought to identify value for money players of the sort he is looking for?

[Charlie-Brown]

Agreed.

 

 

 

Agreed.

 

And seems you agree that ideally, we would bring in the experience and quality the manager identified which we need. And the managers dream that "I hope against Motherwell we will have a new goalkeeper and two or three new players in the squad" would have been fulfilled.

 

http://www.heartsfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/HeartsNewsDetail/0,,10289~1352642,00.html

 

So whats the problem. Seems we're only disagreeing over whether some of us choose to want it all and want it now, or whether others are quite happy to accept a bit less for now and hope it gradually improves over the centuries.

 

Those of us with season tickets (which I am one) are all going to have to put up with whatever is put on show on Saturday. Personally, I don't see why it's an issue that I want Hearts to be the best that they can.

 

JR the key word is 'ideally' .... ideally Hearts would be able to bring in the players the manager has identified - the problem would appear to be striking deals that are acceptable and suitable to both the targeted players AND the club - Hearts have said they have some money to spend however we also know the club are trying to restructure the wage bill and also would like players to accept a lower basic wage and higher incentive and bonus payments so the players remain hungry to achieve - however this could be problematic if other clubs are offering much higher basic wages elsewhere, so it's a tough financial balancing act that needs to be achieved IF the club are able to bring in players with the requisite quality, experience and at the right price.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Is this not what he hoped to get with Tullberg? It's unfortunate he was injured in his first game so we haven't had a chance to see what he can do. Once he's fit he might just be the one. I don't know, just guessing.

 

Agree, but unless our manager is certain, can we afford to take that gamble, and maybe end up having to play till January without one if he turns out to be a diddy?

[Guest JamboRobbo]

JR the key word is 'ideally' .... ideally Hearts would be able to bring in the players the manager has identified - the problem would appear to be striking deals that are acceptable and suitable to both the targeted players AND the club

 

Is it. Any quotes that back this up? Which clubs and players have we had problems striking deals with?

 

- Hearts have said they have some money to spend however we also know the club are trying to restructure the wage bill and also would like players to accept a lower basic wage and higher incentive and bonus payments so the players remain hungry to achieve - however this could be problematic if other clubs are offering much higher basic wages elsewhere, so it's a tough financial balancing act that needs to be achieved IF the club are able to bring in players with the requisite quality, experience and at the right price.

 

Agree to an extent, but I think Csaba needs to be backed if we want to be successful, and we should push the boat out a bit to give him what he wants to try and get his time at Hearts off to a flying start, and try and get back the feelgood factor at Tynie.

[Jambo83]

I think we will sign a new forward and that will be it. I hope Csaba will have seen enough of Banks to see that he is good enough to be our 1st choice for now and let McDonald learn from him with a view to being our next No.1

 

If you add Neilson, Wallace, perhaps even Glen and a fit Nade to that team on Sunday, it would be a decent side, that can match Dundee Utd or Motherwell if managed properly.

[Charlie-Brown]

Is it. Any quotes that back this up? Which clubs and players have we had problems striking deals with?

 

No quotes however we haven't signed anybody so either Csaba hasn't found the right quality yet or else the players we have spoken to we haven't been able to reach any agreement yet hence no signings.

 

 

 

Agree to an extent, but I think Csaba needs to be backed if we want to be successful, and we should push the boat out a bit to give him what he wants to try and get his time at Hearts off to a flying start, and try and get back the feelgood factor at Tynie.

 

You can only push the boat out if there is money available to push the boat out - all the indications are that UKIO Bankas have tightened the purse strings and want Hearts to operate within agreed limits.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

No quotes however we haven't signed anybody so either Csaba hasn't found the right quality yet or else the players we have spoken to we haven't been able to reach any agreement yet hence no signings.

 

You can only push the boat out if there is money available to push the boat out - all the indications are that UKIO Bankas have tightened the purse strings and want Hearts to operate within agreed limits.

 

So it seems you are just speculating and making up scenarios to justify us making no signings then.....

[Guest JamboRobbo]

I think we will sign a new forward and that will be it. I hope Csaba will have seen enough of Banks to see that he is good enough to be our 1st choice for now and let McDonald learn from him with a view to being our next No.1

 

One quality striker would be the absolute minimum for me. It's not ideal, but we might get by for a bit with banks. It's not ideal, but we might even get by with Zaliukas. And we might even get by with Stewart.

 

But one thing is for sure, we won't get by with Mole and Makela and Nade and Glen as our striking options. Not a chance, and a quality striker has to be our no 1 priority ASAP (preferably in time to play on Saturday, rather than us effectively starting the game with 10 men by playing Mole up front).

[Charlie-Brown]

So it seems you are just speculating and making up scenarios to justify us making no signings then.....

 

There are only 4 possibilities JR

 

1) We aren't trying to sign anybody.

2) We haven't found the right players.

3) We haven't been able to agree deals.

4) The money we have is not enough to sign the players we'd like.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

There are only 4 possibilities JR

 

1) We aren't trying to sign anybody.

2) We haven't found the right players.

3) We haven't been able to agree deals.

4) The money we have is not enough to sign the players we'd like.

 

Agreed those are 4 possible options - my point was, you were suggesting it was option 2,3 or 4.

 

Also, there is option 5. The "wait till 31st August then bring in some Kaunus diddies to tide us over" option.

[Paolo]

Young players, so NOT the quality and experience which our manager quite rightly identified is missing from HMFC's squad when he arrived. I don't understand why people are happy enough to accept the manager not getting what he wants.

 

Yes, we might have to put up with it if worse comes to worse. But you're not going to convince me we're doing "the right thing" by NOT getting in the type of players the managers feels we need.

 

Can you name a manager who is getting what he wants?

[Paolo]

Agreed those are 4 possible options - my point was, you were suggesting it was option 2,3 or 4.

 

Also, there is option 5. The "wait till 31st August then bring in some Kaunus diddies to tide us over" option.

 

The same diddies who have scored most of our pre-season goals?

[Gannet]

Agreed those are 4 possible options - my point was, you were suggesting it was option 2,3 or 4.

 

Also, there is option 5. The "wait till 31st August then bring in some Kaunus diddies to tide us over" option.

 

 

Bet your house on option no5........not such a bad thing tho, IF the choices are Csabas and not Vlads.