Energy Price Hike

[jambos are go!]

Faster increases in Government and consumer borrowing has increased current consumption at the expense of future consumption more quickly in the UK than in Europe. UK also benefited from the lingering effects of the post ERM devaluation under Major. However, continually devaluing the currency in order to boost the economy has over the long run in Britain been a favourite Labour Chancellor plan (as we have seen in the last year) and has not been a successful long term policy.

 

Growth in jobs in the UK has been concentrated in underemployed public sector/quasi public sector etc as well as construction (housing boom). Both will go into reverse in the next few years.

 

 

Once again this was mortgaging the British peoples' futures - this was possible due to the 'tax' on mobile phone licences.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

GDP has been inflated by the short termist policies of mortgaging the future. Future growth will be lower as a result of the recent 'boom'. The true extent of the squandering by Brown will be felt as the bills are paid. The current credit crunch is a manifestation of this - as will be the future changes to public sector pensions.

 

For a summary of the waste by Brown have a look at books such as Squandered, Plundering the Private Sector, Fantasy Island, The Bumper Book of Government Waste etc. Eye watering and shameful.

 

How is paying off the national debt mortgaging the British Peoples future?Most of the National Debt was created by the previous Tory government who also through away a couple of billion in a couple of days trying to stay in the ERM. Many of your claims are predictions not facts.

 

Books on public sector waste have been ten a penny for centuries never mind decades - regardless of which party is in power. So nothing new there.

 

Brown built on labour market reforms and crucially the Labour Government allowed a much freer flow of workers from New EC countries to fill skill shortages and boost the economy. Now that the economy is slowing these workers are going home and not on the dole with all the costs that would entail.

 

You continually mention pensions and its true pension funds were raided by the Treasury to an extent that looks bad. However, its unlikely that Brown was taking money out of pensioners pockets. More likely shareholders would have benefited as comapanies clawed back their pension contributions or took extended pension contribution holidays. At least the Labour Goverment have made limited retribution but I'm unaware that any company offered to return the clawback or reinstate the contributions withheld. No they froze or cut pension benefits when the funds ran short. Typical Capitalists.

[Coco]

How is paying off the national debt mortgaging the British Peoples future?Most of the National Debt was created by the previous Tory government who also through away a couple of billion in a couple of days trying to stay in the ERM. Many of your claims are predictions not facts.

 

Books on public sector waste have been ten a penny for centuries never mind decades - regardless of which party is in power. So nothing new there.

 

Brown built on labour market reforms and crucially the Labour Government allowed a much freer flow of workers from New EC countries to fill skill shortages and boost the economy. Now that the economy is slowing these workers are going home and not on the dole with all the costs that would entail.

 

You continually mention pensions and its true pension funds were raided by the Treasury to an extent that looks bad. However, its unlikely that Brown was taking money out of pensioners pockets. More likely shareholders would have benefited as comapanies clawed back their pension contributions or took extended pension contribution holidays. At least the Labour Goverment have made limited retribution but I'm unaware that any company offered to return the clawback or reinstate the contributions withheld. No they froze or cut pension benefits when the funds ran short. Typical Capitalists.

 

Between 1998 and 2001, there was an aggregate surplus of ?36bn - that is your repaying the national debt. This was of course due to sticking to Ken Clarke's spending limits as well as the 'future taxation' through the sale of mobile phone licences.

 

Since 2002 there has been an aggregate deficit of ?207bn. Add to that the PFI off balance sheet debts, the contractural disasters of IT projects, ID card projects, ridiculous 'defence' spending and the off balance sheet future liability of the gold plated public sector pensions and you have an absolutely disastrous record in the public finances. And one which we will have to pay for in the future.

[coppercrutch]

Add to that the PFI off balance sheet debts

 

Shocker. I wonder how much our national debt would be with those included ?

 

Just as many banks have still got huge losses 'off balance sheet' the Government are doing exactly the same thing with PFI.

 

It really is scandalous. In previous times the heads of these organisations would have been executed for their gross misconduct.

 

I am not saying that should happen today but a few going to jail would be a nice start.

[Era Macaroons]

Which company is offering the fixed rate deal right now?

 

May as well try and cap my bills ,or has the horse bolted?

[jambos are go!]

Between 1998 and 2001, there was an aggregate surplus of ?36bn - that is your repaying the national debt. This was of course due to sticking to Ken Clarke's spending limits as well as the 'future taxation' through the sale of mobile phone licences.

 

Since 2002 there has been an aggregate deficit of ?207bn. Add to that the PFI off balance sheet debts, the contractural disasters of IT projects, ID card projects, ridiculous 'defence' spending and the off balance sheet future liability of the gold plated public sector pensions and you have an absolutely disastrous record in the public finances. And one which we will have to pay for in the future.

 

Public Sector Pensions in their current form have been around for decades or more under various Government so how does Brown carry the can. The Labour Government reformed these pensions a few years ago away from final salary schemes in the future saving the taxpayer huge sums according to Alan Johnston the then Works and Pensions Secretary.

 

So if Brown had not sold the phone licences who would have benefited if not the Taxpayer. Shareholders or capitalists of course. I'm unaware that the Tories made promises to cut national debt of the back of Ken Clarke's spending plans in the run up to the 1997 election. BTW in Tory terms Clarke was a left wing spending Chancellor.

 

I've tried to answer all your points even the tricky ones. Oh that you would do the same

[Coco]

Public Sector Pensions in their current form have been around for decades or more under various Government so how does Brown carry the can. The Labour Government reformed these pensions a few years ago away from final salary schemes in the future saving the taxpayer huge sums according to Alan Johnston the then Works and Pensions Secretary.

 

 

So if Brown had not sold the phone licences who would have benefited if not the Taxpayer. Shareholders or capitalists of course. I'm unaware that the Tories made promises to cut national debt of the back of Ken Clarke's spending plans in the run up to the 1997 election. BTW in Tory terms Clarke was a left wing spending Chancellor.

 

I've tried to answer all your points even the tricky ones. Oh that you would do the same

 

You asked for facts - I gave you facts. Could you let us know how much Brown has net decreased the national debt by in his time as Chancellor/Prime Minister? You can include the pensions liability, the PFI schemes, Northern Rock, future defence commitments, ID card commitments, IT commitments, writeoffs on pet project tax credits etc if you want.

[jambos are go!]

You asked for facts - I gave you facts. Could you let us know how much Brown has net decreased the national debt by in his time as Chancellor/Prime Minister? You can include the pensions liability, the PFI schemes, Northern Rock, future defence commitments, ID card commitments, IT commitments, writeoffs on pet project tax credits etc if you want.

 

Sorry I dont have the figures but trusted yours. Its not on though to claim future liabilities as current debt or unaffordable. That will all depend on the performance of the economy. BTW the Tories have promised to adhere to Browns spending plan for the next 2 years.

 

The gist of your arguement seems to be that Brown lived on borrowed money rather than bigger tax revenues based on econmic growth. You also think he should have put something away for a rainy day during the good times . That does not make sense if you think he was borrowing too much already methinks. Brown is a flawed genius but a genius nontheless. Somehow I dont think the world financiers will be consulting David Cameron or Alex Salmond on how to solve Global problems. Do you?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Public Sector Pensions in their current form have been around for decades or more under various Government so how does Brown carry the can. The Labour Government reformed these pensions a few years ago away from final salary schemes in the future saving the taxpayer huge sums according to Alan Johnston the then Works and Pensions Secretary.

So if Brown had not sold the phone licences who would have benefited if not the Taxpayer. Shareholders or capitalists of course. I'm unaware that the Tories made promises to cut national debt of the back of Ken Clarke's spending plans in the run up to the 1997 election. BTW in Tory terms Clarke was a left wing spending Chancellor.

 

I've tried to answer all your points even the tricky ones. Oh that you would do the same

 

That is utter rubbish! All they did was to either change the contribution terms for new members or change the retirement age for new members. Final salary schemes are basically a public sector 'perk' now.

[coppercrutch]

Sorry I dont have the figures but trusted yours. Its not on though to claim future liabilities as current debt or unaffordable. That will all depend on the performance of the economy. BTW the Tories have promised to adhere to Browns spending plan for the next 2 years.

 

The gist of your arguement seems to be that Brown lived on borrowed money rather than bigger tax revenues based on econmic growth. You also think he should have put something away for a rainy day during the good times . That does not make sense if you think he was borrowing too much already methinks. Brown is a flawed genius but a genius nontheless. Somehow I dont think the world financiers will be consulting David Cameron or Alex Salmond on how to solve Global problems. Do you?

 

 

 

Morning Goggs. How is your holiday ? Thought you were a Raith fan and not a Jambo ?

[jambos are go!]

That is utter rubbish! All they did was to either change the contribution terms for new members or change the retirement age for new members. Final salary schemes are basically a public sector 'perk' now.

 

Sorry but most public servants joining the scheme now build up a fund based on earnings each year(plus inflation) and their final pension is based on the final total accumulated and not the final years earnings. There are reserved rights for those in the scheme before the change but that has happened in private sector schemes who also had and dropped Final salary Schemes. Basically most public servants will in future get a pension based on an average of their career earnings and not their final earnings. They'll lose out compared to previous arrangements in other words. They will also have to work till 65 and the average life of a pension is likely to decline to the taxpayers benefit

 

I highlighted most because there are a small number of public and private sector schemes still using final salary schemes.