Energy Price Hike

[Serge]

With British Gas's announcement of a 35% increase in the price of gas now is a good time to switch your tariff if you are with a different energy supplier.

 

All the suppliers will be upping their prices by a similar amount but if you get in quick you can switch to a "Price Cap" tariff.

 

This tariff is 10-15% above what you are paying now and will guarantee the price for a year at least.

 

If you get in now you will save approx 20% on your fuel bills for next year.

[Boris]

Now is the time for the Govt to renationalise the utilities in the interests of the people, not the profiteers.

[Maximus]

Spot on Boris. We are all getting fed up of having to be happy little teets that are always ready and willing to be milked dry by all comers!

 

For now the gas companies can GTF. All electric from now on. Though the price for that is going up too.....

[belly]

With British Gas's announcement of a 35% increase in the price of gas now is a good time to switch your tariff if you are with a different energy supplier.

 

All the suppliers will be upping their prices by a similar amount but if you get in quick you can switch to a "Price Cap" tariff.

 

This tariff is 10-15% above what you are paying now and will guarantee the price for a year at least.

 

If you get in now you will save approx 20% on your fuel bills for next year.

 

British Gas are money grabbin bar stewards, they tried to put my monthly gas payment up to: More than I was using a quarter, and while I was roughly 4 months payment ahead. I told them to poke it!!

[jambos are go!]

At the weekend I saved ?200 a year and capped my Gas and Electricity costs till the end of 2009 by moving from EDF to British Gas. It was a doddle using Energyline and there are still a few deals still on the go. But they could disappear in minutes or hours rather than days . Getting on yer bikes rather than moaning.

[Helzibob]

It was on the news that British Gas parent company only made 992 million as opposed 1.2 billion. Poor diddums! They shouldn't be allowed to make sure stupid profit margins and still increase the costs to us.

[Coco]

Now is the time for the Govt to renationalise the utilities in the interests of the people, not the profiteers.

 

What is the right price for the utilities' products? Should they be 'free' for the people?

 

How much use of each product do you think that the Government should allow by the people?

[Boris]

What is the right price for the utilities' products? Should they be 'free' for the people?

 

How much use of each product do you think that the Government should allow by the people?

 

People should still be charged for use, however if huge price rises happen then the Govt could absorb some of that increase. Perhaps spending less on ordnance for Iraq as way to balance the books?

 

If the energy suppliers make so much profit, how much could the cost to the consumer be reduced by if that profit was used to subsidise the price?

 

Don't get me wrong, the price of energy needs to include some costing for r&d as well as maintaining and upgrading the energy supply infrastructure, however I firmly believe that it is every citizen of this Country's right to be given access to means of heating, water, electricity and the citizens should not be priced out of this access just so some directors and shareholders can reap the benefits of an international fuel crisis.

 

The citizens should take back for themselves what was theirs originally and perhaps then this country can move forward safe in the knowledge that it is elected representatives of the people who are responsible for such things, not fat cat corporate whores who only react to balance sheets, not human suffering.

[Robertson9]

Now is the time for the Govt to renationalise the utilities in the interests of the people, not the profiteers.

 

Spot on mate.

 

Never happen though

[frankblack]

There is no difference here between the Banks blaming other people for the credit crunch and the power companies blaming the markets.

 

The whole market is broken in the UK and it is time the government stepped in and either renationalise it or sort it out.

 

Why is it that the power companies in Europe are not imposing the same price rises on their customers? It looks like they are getting in their first and we are getting the slops.

 

The government needs to introduce proper competition and build big storage facilities for the energy products, in order that we are not affected by the markets.

 

I think that the government should cap the price rises on the power companies so they suffer losses instead of passing them onto the consumer. These companies aren't competing properly with the European companies for the oil, because they are in a cartel and just increase their prices when they want to. If the companies knew they couldn't increase their prices, they would become more efficient.

 

It is also apparent that we need to build more nuclear power stations NOW to meet our electricity demands.

 

I don't expect anything to happen, but if Labour acted strongly here they could at least give themselves a chance of becoming electable for the election in two years time.

[milky_26]

People should still be charged for use, however if huge price rises happen then the Govt could absorb some of that increase. Perhaps spending less on ordnance for Iraq as way to balance the books?

 

If the energy suppliers make so much profit, how much could the cost to the consumer be reduced by if that profit was used to subsidise the price?

 

Don't get me wrong, the price of energy needs to include some costing for r&d as well as maintaining and upgrading the energy supply infrastructure, however I firmly believe that it is every citizen of this Country's right to be given access to means of heating, water, electricity and the citizens should not be priced out of this access just so some directors and shareholders can reap the benefits of an international fuel crisis.

 

The citizens should take back for themselves what was theirs originally and perhaps then this country can move forward safe in the knowledge that it is elected representatives of the people who are responsible for such things, not fat cat corporate whores who only react to balance sheets, not human suffering.

 

 

right i've started to sharpen my pitchfork:dribble:

 

who's with me?

[Coco]

People should still be charged for use, however if huge price rises happen then the Govt could absorb some of that increase. Perhaps spending less on ordnance for Iraq as way to balance the books?

 

If the energy suppliers make so much profit, how much could the cost to the consumer be reduced by if that profit was used to subsidise the price?

 

Don't get me wrong, the price of energy needs to include some costing for r&d as well as maintaining and upgrading the energy supply infrastructure, however I firmly believe that it is every citizen of this Country's right to be given access to means of heating, water, electricity and the citizens should not be priced out of this access just so some directors and shareholders can reap the benefits of an international fuel crisis.

 

The citizens should take back for themselves what was theirs originally and perhaps then this country can move forward safe in the knowledge that it is elected representatives of the people who are responsible for such things, not fat cat corporate whores who only react to balance sheets, not human suffering.

 

One of the major problems here is the destruction of the value of the Pound by Gordon Brown's economic policies. If Brown had not run such lunatic and damaging economic policies then energy prices - in Pounds - would not be rising by such an amount.

 

Secondly, the bureaucratic and political morass in the UK is not strongly suggestive that the 'energy market' could be controlled better by those bureaucrats and politicians. The price mechanism is far more efficient and powerful than bureaucratic decisions with all the whims and personal issues involved there.

 

Countries which have fuel subsidies eg in Asia - countries where there is actual poverty and not just relative poverty - are removing those subsidies at the moment because they are too expensive.

 

Too much Government in this country.

[Boris]

One of the major problems here is the destruction of the value of the Pound by Gordon Brown's economic policies. If Brown had not run such lunatic and damaging economic policies then energy prices - in Pounds - would not be rising by such an amount.

 

Secondly, the bureaucratic and political morass in the UK is not strongly suggestive that the 'energy market' could be controlled better by those bureaucrats and politicians. The price mechanism is far more efficient and powerful than bureaucratic decisions with all the whims and personal issues involved there.

 

Countries which have fuel subsidies eg in Asia - countries where there is actual poverty and not just relative poverty - are removing those subsidies at the moment because they are too expensive.

 

Too much Government in this country.

 

I think this is where we should agree to differ Coco.

 

Personally, I think we (the people) have a responsibilty to each other and that there are certain things in this life that are essential.

 

Water, electricity, gas are three of those things. If we wish to be a civilised society then these staple requirements have to be delivered to the people by an institution that is accountable to the people i.e. elected representatives. As it currently stands our providers make huge profits yet prices still increase. The weakness of the pound doesn't seem to shrivel the profits generated by these companies!

 

As I said before,fuel/energy etc is fundamental to simply living and I would much prefer that the supply of said material was in the hands of the state rather than greedy corporate types who are more interested in profit rather than people.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Funny how no one was complaining when the UK had the cheapest energy prices in Europe!

 

As Coco says, Brown's nonsensical economic policies have contributed to the crisis.

 

Oh well, shame!

[Miller Jambo 60]

One of the major problems here is the destruction of the value of the Pound by Gordon Brown's economic policies. If Brown had not run such lunatic and damaging economic policies then energy prices - in Pounds - would not be rising by such an amount.

 

Secondly, the bureaucratic and political morass in the UK is not strongly suggestive that the 'energy market' could be controlled better by those bureaucrats and politicians. The price mechanism is far more efficient and powerful than bureaucratic decisions with all the whims and personal issues involved there.

 

Countries which have fuel subsidies eg in Asia - countries where there is actual poverty and not just relative poverty - are removing those subsidies at the moment because they are too expensive.

 

Too much Government in this country.

 

Brown is a nob a waste of space ,never a PM even tony teeth blair had more going for him.

SNP rule but wait for the Englanders to go from labour to tory overnight.

Never understood that .

Anyone help me on that one.

[CraigSN1]

Price protection 2011 on the market now from bgas with no premium. I work in the industry and in my humble opinion British gas are the best in the market. Of course bgas make alot of profit, as will any company who has circa 16.4 millon customers.

 

What people also seem to forget is for every ?10 spent combating fuel poverty ?7 of it comes from Centrica. Also have the cheapest "pre payment" tariff in the UK. And for what its worth i agree with what Jake Ulrich said, if your cold try putting two jumpers on. The amount of people that believe gas and electric should be free is -pardon the pun , shocking.

[Boris]

Funny how no one was complaining when the UK had the cheapest energy prices in Europe!

 

 

I have always advocated state ownership of the utilities.

 

I also advocate state ownership of other things too, but that's not for now.

[Boris]

The amount of people that believe gas and electric should be free is -pardon the pun , shocking.

 

Who on this thread is advocating free gas or electricity?

 

There does seem to be a bit of resentment when a company hikes it prices up by 35% even although it makes close onto ?1bn profit though.

[CraigSN1]

Who on this thread is advocating free gas or electricity?

 

There does seem to be a bit of resentment when a company hikes it prices up by 35% even although it makes close onto ?1bn profit though.

 

Sorry maybe i wasn't clear. I did not mean on this thread but in general. The simple fact is, the more energy efficient you are the less money you will spend. And of course the billion pounds is across the whole of centrica - not just British gas.

[Miller Jambo 60]

Sorry maybe i wasn't clear. I did not mean on this thread but in general. The simple fact is, the more energy efficient you are the less money you will spend.

 

So in winter get your sleeping bags out while watching the tele.

Aye right what are you on mate

[troonjambo]

Now is the time for the Govt to renationalise the utilities in the interests of the people, not the profiteers.

 

i agree in principal problem is of cource these companys are not owned by billonares but by pension funds so you quite literally would be stealing from peter to give to paul

[Boris]

i agree in principal problem is of cource these companys are not owned by billonares but by pension funds so you quite literally would be stealing from peter to give to paul

 

Think how well off those pension funds would be if even half of the profit was added to the fund!

 

Perhaps this highlights the need for greater state provision regarding pensions too?

[CraigSN1]

So in winter get your sleeping bags out while watching the tele.

Aye right what are you on mate

 

Or how about make sure your house is fully insulated, close your windows and read a book instead of watching the tv ?

[Coco]

Think how well off those pension funds would be if even half of the profit was added to the fund!

 

Perhaps this highlights the need for greater state provision regarding pensions too?

 

The profits do go to the funds. Dividends.

 

The trouble with pensions (outside of gold plated schemes in the public sector) is that Brown has taken tens of billions of pounds out of them in an effort to punish those who took out their own savings rather than depending on the state.

 

Slightly different argument where the companies are owned overseas. But for hundreds of years British people/pension funds have owned overseas assets.

[BlackJAC?]

The thing about nationalising, the government usually makes a pig's ear of it and we would have probably been paying these sort of prices a lot sooner than we are now.

 

I've yet to see a nationalised company that would make me seriously think we'd be better off.

[Boris]

The profits do go to the funds. Dividends.

 

The trouble with pensions (outside of gold plated schemes in the public sector) is that Brown has taken tens of billions of pounds out of them in an effort to punish those who took out their own savings rather than depending on the state.

 

Slightly different argument where the companies are owned overseas. But for hundreds of years British people/pension funds have owned overseas assets.

 

If people are relying on the state to provide a pension (as it currently stands) then they are sadly misguided and I doubt Brown would say that the state has it covered.

 

If you are meaning that public sector workers and their occupational pension schemes, well I don't see the difference between say the Lothian Pension Fund, and say Scottish Widows Occupational Scheme. Workers in both contribute to their benefits as well as the employers contributing too.

 

I think the picture you paint of Brown as a malevolent Bolshevik out to destroy capitalism is way off the mark. He's a Tory wet with a conscience!

[Stuart Lyon]

If I can find one big enough for me I am going to invest in one of those insulated suits the subs used to wear in winter! Should be as warm as toast and no need for heating!

[jambos are go!]

One of the major problems here is the destruction of the value of the Pound by Gordon Brown's economic policies. If Brown had not run such lunatic and damaging economic policies then energy prices - in Pounds - would not be rising by such an amount.

 

Secondly, the bureaucratic and political morass in the UK is not strongly suggestive that the 'energy market' could be controlled better by those bureaucrats and politicians. The price mechanism is far more efficient and powerful than bureaucratic decisions with all the whims and personal issues involved there.

 

Countries which have fuel subsidies eg in Asia - countries where there is actual poverty and not just relative poverty - are removing those subsidies at the moment because they are too expensive.

 

Too much Government in this country.

 

Regardless of hikes in food, oil and energy we are still all better off thanks to Brown and inflation is still well in single figures. We spend a lot less of our income on food,oil and energy than we did 10 or 20 years ago. According to the Scotsman last week driving a car is cheaper in real terms than it was 20 years ago despite the cost of petrol.

[Bordeaux 03]

The CEO of British Gas was asked on Newsnight last night if EDF are increasing their prices by 19% and British Gas by 35% who should customers choose for their gas. Needless to say it was fun watching him squirm. The guy interviewing him basically said people are struggling now anway, are you taking the p***.

[frankblack]

Regardless of hikes in food, oil and energy we are still all better off thanks to Brown and inflation is still well in single figures. We spend a lot less of our income on food,oil and energy than we did 10 or 20 years ago. According to the Scotsman last week driving a car is cheaper in real terms than it was 20 years ago despite the cost of petrol.

 

Looks like you are a sucker that believes Labour party spin.

 

The other opinion is that Ken Clarke had set in motion the policies that Brown benefited from. The problem is now that Labour have been in power since 1997 they have taxed, taxed, and taxed more and spent it all. Things have gone pear shaped and Brown and Darling are blaming everyone except themselves.

 

Labour have had 11 years to set up contingencies but when it comes to the (credit) crunch they are out of ideas.

 

How exactly are we better off now than 11 years ago? Fuel prices are going through the roof, and energy prices are going up 3 or 4 times a year, new mortgages are pretty much gone, and we are going into recession.

 

As I said above - Labour are to blame for failing to ensure sufficient reserve capacity in the gas market. Perhaps if they hadn't lost focus with an illegal war in Iraq our country wouldn't be heading into recession.

[The Real Maroonblood]

Now is the time for the Govt to renationalise the utilities in the interests of the people, not the profiteers.

 

Totally agree. I remember it was Thatcher who said that gas was to cheap,

The rest is history.

[Jambof3tornado]

Get more nuclear power stations built right now!!!

 

I got an email from british gas saying coz I was on their super cheap click energy 5 tariff the price hikes wouldnt make any difference to me,as my prices arent going up. Ya fekking beauty!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are those nuclear power stations built yet???

[portobellojambo1]

Think how well off those pension funds would be if even half of the profit was added to the fund!

 

Perhaps this highlights the need for greater state provision regarding pensions too?

 

More likely that the state pension will disappear totally in the not too distant future Boris. The next generation may be retiring to no pension whatsoever unless they have made provision for themselves through private/personal investment.

[coppercrutch]

People should still be charged for use, however if huge price rises happen then the Govt could absorb some of that increase. Perhaps spending less on ordnance for Iraq as way to balance the books?

 

If the energy suppliers make so much profit, how much could the cost to the consumer be reduced by if that profit was used to subsidise the price?

 

Don't get me wrong, the price of energy needs to include some costing for r&d as well as maintaining and upgrading the energy supply infrastructure, however I firmly believe that it is every citizen of this Country's right to be given access to means of heating, water, electricity and the citizens should not be priced out of this access just so some directors and shareholders can reap the benefits of an international fuel crisis.

 

The citizens should take back for themselves what was theirs originally and perhaps then this country can move forward safe in the knowledge that it is elected representatives of the people who are responsible for such things, not fat cat corporate whores who only react to balance sheets, not human suffering.

 

Someone always has to pay in the end. These days it seems to be the taxpayer over and over again.

[CJGJ]

Nothing like ignoring the facts to prove a point.

 

British Gas is part of Centrica -- on its own BG profits decreased by 69% from the same period last year and at the moment they are paying ?1 a therm for gas and selling it for 65p a therm -- there is not a Business in the world that can keep that going.

 

In 2006 when BG made losses I did not hear the great British Public say lets increase prices -- it's only fair !!

 

Facts are this -- to survive a business has to make money -- we as customers and pension holders etc need businesses to make money if only to invest in future supplies -- this will not go away and you need to understand this -- harsh but true.

There are also market forces in Europe that are costing the British consumer to have to pay more -- a distinct lack of competition in Europe keeps prices high re costs through pipelines and Liquid Natural Gas.

The growth of China, India, Brazil etc means other economies also have increased needs and as in the housing market a high demand fuels price increases

It is an easy target but if you look at Shell etc you will see far more in profits being made -- I am afraid that we will need to learn to live with this -- of course we must try and protect the poor and vulnerable but on the whole we cannot expect a private company to be a social service provider -- that is the job of government.

 

All you who work for private companies and want to criticise BG should look at their own employers and see if they subsidise the poor and elderly to the extent BG already do.

Ask a house builder if he will build the house for ?100,000 and sell it for ?80,000 because you can't afford it and it is a social responsiblity they should bare.

PS wait a few weeks and you will see all other companies increase prices -- will they guarantee no more rises until 2011 ? -- BG DOES.

PSS --electricity went up only 9% -- half that of EDF but was of course ignored in highlighting the gas price rise -- check unit prices not % rises to see the true costs.

PSSS -- prior to the rise BG was the cheapest supplier for dual fuel in the country if you paid by DD and on line -- fact not fiction

[Ulysses]

One of the major problems here is the destruction of the value of the Pound by Gordon Brown's economic policies. If Brown had not run such lunatic and damaging economic policies then energy prices - in Pounds - would not be rising by such an amount.

 

Can you explain this one?

 

Unless I am mistaken, market prices for oil and gas are denominated in US Dollars.

 

At the start of 2007, the pound was worth $1.96. During 2007 the pound was worth a couple of cents either side of $2, and finished the year at $1.96. So far in 2008, the pound has been worth between $1.96 and $2, and is currently worth about $1.98.

 

So whatever is to blame for rising energy prices in Britain, it isn't the value of sterling.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Can you explain this one?

 

Unless I am mistaken, market prices for oil and gas are denominated in US Dollars.

 

At the start of 2007, the pound was worth $1.96. During 2007 the pound was worth a couple of cents either side of $2, and finished the year at $1.96. So far in 2008, the pound has been worth between $1.96 and $2, and is currently worth about $1.98.

 

So whatever is to blame for rising energy prices in Britain, it isn't the value of sterling.

 

The point is that the US has devalued the dollar even further. That is why the Euro has appreciated so much against it.

 

The pound-dollar exchange rate has barely moved because of the weakness of the UK economy. Hence as the commodity prices have risen (because of the dollar's weakness), the pound hasn't benefitted from any appreciation to offset it.

 

It isn't obvious when you look at the pound-dollar exchange rate. However, compare the pound to the Aussie dollar for a better example. The Aussie dollar a couple of years ago was worth 33p. Now it's 48p or a little below that.

[Ulysses]

The point is that the US has devalued the dollar even further. That is why the Euro has appreciated so much against it.

 

The pound-dollar exchange rate has barely moved because of the weakness of the UK economy. Hence as the commodity prices have risen (because of the dollar's weakness), the pound hasn't benefitted from any appreciation to offset it.

 

It isn't obvious when you look at the pound-dollar exchange rate. However, compare the pound to the Aussie dollar for a better example. The Aussie dollar a couple of years ago was worth 33p. Now it's 48p or a little below that.

 

Ah, that makes sense. In fact, it makes more sense when you look at the performance of the US Dollar against the Euro and currencies in Denmark, Sweden and Switzerland over the long term (guess what graphs I've just been reading).

 

But does that not mean that the UK's rapidly rising energy prices are - in effect - caused by the UK's version of the credit crunch?

[Boaby Ewing]

Ah, that makes sense. In fact, it makes more sense when you look at the performance of the US Dollar against the Euro and currencies in Denmark, Sweden and Switzerland over the long term (guess what graphs I've just been reading).

 

But does that not mean that the UK's rapidly rising energy prices are - in effect - caused by the UK's version of the credit crunch?

 

In theory, liberalising the UK power market should help lower prices. The same spikes haven't been seen in Germany, where the market is far more liquid (and that includes having US/global financial players coming in on the forward market to hedge against the dollar's weakness).

 

In saying all that, if BG are saying no more price increases 'til 2011, they're basically offering the British consumer a hedge against further price spikes (albeit at a premium).

[Ulysses]

In theory, liberalising the UK power market should help lower prices. The same spikes haven't been seen in Germany, where the market is far more liquid (and that includes having US/global financial players coming in on the forward market to hedge against the dollar's weakness).

 

In saying all that, if BG are saying no more price increases 'til 2011, they're basically offering the British consumer a hedge against further price spikes (albeit at a premium).

 

Oddly enough, one of the factors at play in driving up European gas prices over the longer term is that the UK has moved from being a net exporter to being a net importer of gas.

 

Norway and the Netherlands could ratchet up production so as to cash in on current prices, but both countries have production limits (imposed by their governments, please note) to ensure long term security of production and tax revenues.

 

So as the 21st century rolls on, Europe can look forward to keeping itself warm with gas bought from Russia, Algeria, Libya and Egypt.

 

What a prospect.

[Boaby Ewing]

The rise in prices we've seen (as you correctly state due to Britain's messy transition from a net exporter to net importer of energy) should hopefully see us switch to alternatives, be that renewables or nuclear. It'll take a while though.

[Cade]

We should renationalise all the big industries.

 

They are holding the people of ths country to ransom whilst posting record profits.

 

It is utterly disgusting and morally abhorrent.

 

Thatcher sellling off all of our nationalised industries was the worst thing that has EVER happened to this country.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

We should renationalise all the big industries.

 

They are holding the people of ths country to ransom whilst posting record profits.

 

It is utterly disgusting and morally abhorrent.

 

Thatcher sellling off all of our nationalised industries was the worst thing that has EVER happened to this country.

 

Does that include BT then who used to offer you the choice of ONE telephone? Should they then enjoy a competitive advantage over Vodafone and the likes?

 

Does that include BA who used to run up losses hand over fist? No Easy Jet, Ryan Air et al and 400 quid flights between London and Edinburgh?

 

Competition is far more efficient. The question is whether these industries should be 'subsidised' for social reasons, i.e. to reduce prices.

 

There's an energy crisis across the globe due to the demand from China and India. Also, God, in his infinite wisdom, has placed the resources in areas where things aren't exactly stable.

 

The commodity price will crash soon enough and then this bleating will stop.

[The Real Maroonblood]

Nothing like ignoring the facts to prove a point.

 

British Gas is part of Centrica -- on its own BG profits decreased by 69% from the same period last year and at the moment they are paying ?1 a therm for gas and selling it for 65p a therm -- there is not a Business in the world that can keep that going.

 

In 2006 when BG made losses I did not hear the great British Public say lets increase prices -- it's only fair !!

 

Facts are this -- to survive a business has to make money -- we as customers and pension holders etc need businesses to make money if only to invest in future supplies -- this will not go away and you need to understand this -- harsh but true.

There are also market forces in Europe that are costing the British consumer to have to pay more -- a distinct lack of competition in Europe keeps prices high re costs through pipelines and Liquid Natural Gas.

The growth of China, India, Brazil etc means other economies also have increased needs and as in the housing market a high demand fuels price increases

It is an easy target but if you look at Shell etc you will see far more in profits being made -- I am afraid that we will need to learn to live with this -- of course we must try and protect the poor and vulnerable but on the whole we cannot expect a private company to be a social service provider -- that is the job of government.

 

All you who work for private companies and want to criticise BG should look at their own employers and see if they subsidise the poor and elderly to the extent BG already do.

Ask a house builder if he will build the house for ?100,000 and sell it for ?80,000 because you can't afford it and it is a social responsiblity they should bare.

PS wait a few weeks and you will see all other companies increase prices -- will they guarantee no more rises until 2011 ? -- BG DOES.

PSS --electricity went up only 9% -- half that of EDF but was of course ignored in highlighting the gas price rise -- check unit prices not % rises to see the true costs.

PSSS -- prior to the rise BG was the cheapest supplier for dual fuel in the country if you paid by DD and on line -- fact not fiction

 

Gas prices go up by 35% wage rise goes up 3%.

Sounds fair enough to me.

[Coco]

Can you explain this one?

 

Unless I am mistaken, market prices for oil and gas are denominated in US Dollars.

 

At the start of 2007, the pound was worth $1.96. During 2007 the pound was worth a couple of cents either side of $2, and finished the year at $1.96. So far in 2008, the pound has been worth between $1.96 and $2, and is currently worth about $1.98.

 

So whatever is to blame for rising energy prices in Britain, it isn't the value of sterling.

 

GK has answered this point.

[jambos are go!]

Looks like you are a sucker that believes Labour party spin.

 

The other opinion is that Ken Clarke had set in motion the policies that Brown benefited from. The problem is now that Labour have been in power since 1997 they have taxed, taxed, and taxed more and spent it all. Things have gone pear shaped and Brown and Darling are blaming everyone except themselves.

 

Labour have had 11 years to set up contingencies but when it comes to the (credit) crunch they are out of ideas.

 

How exactly are we better off now than 11 years ago? Fuel prices are going through the roof, and energy prices are going up 3 or 4 times a year, new mortgages are pretty much gone, and we are going into recession.

 

As I said above - Labour are to blame for failing to ensure sufficient reserve capacity in the gas market. Perhaps if they hadn't lost focus with an illegal war in Iraq our country wouldn't be heading into recession.

 

 

Did the Governor of the B of E not say recently that we had gone through a golden decade. Have we not move up the wealthiest nation list. Did Brown waste the surpluses on drink. No he massively increased public spending on priorities like Health and Education. Did he not play the leading role in clearing third world debt. And by the way we've had 11 years of continuous economic growth the main barometer of finacial succcess for any nation. And despite the credit crunch the jury is still out on whether or not it will end.

 

Labours opponents attack Brown because his economic success has been Labours greatest success. They hate him for that.

[Coco]

Did the Governor of the B of E not say recently that we had gone through a golden decade. Have we not move up the wealthiest nation list. Did Brown waste the surpluses on drink. No he massively increased public spending on priorities like Health and Education. Did he not play the leading role in clearing third world debt. And by the way we've had 11 years of continuous economic growth the main barometer of finacial succcess for any nation. And despite the credit crunch the jury is still out on whether or not it will end.

 

Labours opponents attack Brown because his economic success has been Labours greatest success. They hate him for that.

 

As is currently becoming clear, Brown's economic 'success' was a mirage.

 

He borrowed from the future in order to give the illusion of prosperity today. It is easy to feel prosperous if you mortgage the future. Not so nice when the bills have to be paid. The destruction of the private pension system in the UK is the most nasty stealth tax this country has ever seen. The 'investment' in public services has for the most part gone on waste, sleaze, worthless bureaucracy, underemployment, natural majority creation etc. Add that to the billions wasted on his crusades in the Middle East.

 

The NICE decade (golden as you say) does not relate to anything to do with the UK - it is about the global non-inflationary growth conditions which have much to do with the emergence of new production centres in the Far East. Those of course have seen the shift of a million manufacturing jobs from the UK to the East and Far East partly due to the increases in bureaucracy, taxation, regulation etc by Brown. Brown claimed the credit for this NICE decade, having cured boom and bust Now he forgets this when he says there be monsters overseas as the global economy slows.

 

No doubt in my mind that Brown will go down in history as one of the worst Chancellors in British history.

[jambos are go!]

As is currently becoming clear, Brown's economic 'success' was a mirage.

 

He borrowed from the future in order to give the illusion of prosperity today. It is easy to feel prosperous if you mortgage the future. Not so nice when the bills have to be paid. The destruction of the private pension system in the UK is the most nasty stealth tax this country has ever seen. The 'investment' in public services has for the most part gone on waste, sleaze, worthless bureaucracy, underemployment, natural majority creation etc. Add that to the billions wasted on his crusades in the Middle East.

 

The NICE decade (golden as you say) does not relate to anything to do with the UK - it is about the global non-inflationary growth conditions which have much to do with the emergence of new production centres in the Far East. Those of course have seen the shift of a million manufacturing jobs from the UK to the East and Far East partly due to the increases in bureaucracy, taxation, regulation etc by Brown. Brown claimed the credit for this NICE decade, having cured boom and bust Now he forgets this when he says there be monsters overseas as the global economy slows.

 

No doubt in my mind that Brown will go down in history as one of the worst Chancellors in British history.

 

The UK has outperformed its EC partners in terms of jobs and growth over the past decade whilst the same global conditions applied. Explain that. About 5 or more years ago Brown repaid a huge junk of the national debt a move that had the right wing press singing his praises. That is not borrowing against the future I think you must agree. Finally given the % of national income used for public expenditure has remain fairly constant around the long term average of 42% how can you claim Brown has wasted public money to an unprecedented extent.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

The UK has outperformed its EC partners in terms of jobs and growth over the past decade whilst the same global conditions applied. Explain that. About 5 or more years ago Brown repaid a huge junk of the national debt a move that had the right wing press singing his praises. That is not borrowing against the future I think you must agree. Finally given the % of national income used for public expenditure has remain fairly constant around the long term average of 42% how can you claim Brown has wasted public money to an unprecedented extent.

 

Brown deserves credit for following Tory spending plans in the first two years of the Labour government. It gave him credibility. However, in that time the stealth tax on pensions did massive damage, as has been shown now.

 

As for outperforming Europe, this was mainly due to the UK having a more flexible labour market than Europe. Supply side reforms introduced by...the Tories!

[Coco]

The UK has outperformed its EC partners in terms of jobs and growth over the past decade whilst the same global conditions applied. Explain that.

Faster increases in Government and consumer borrowing has increased current consumption at the expense of future consumption more quickly in the UK than in Europe. UK also benefited from the lingering effects of the post ERM devaluation under Major. However, continually devaluing the currency in order to boost the economy has over the long run in Britain been a favourite Labour Chancellor plan (as we have seen in the last year) and has not been a successful long term policy.

 

Growth in jobs in the UK has been concentrated in underemployed public sector/quasi public sector etc as well as construction (housing boom). Both will go into reverse in the next few years.

 

About 5 or more years ago Brown repaid a huge junk of the national debt a move that had the right wing press singing his praises. That is not borrowing against the future I think you must agree.

Once again this was mortgaging the British peoples' futures - this was possible due to the 'tax' on mobile phone licences.

Finally given the % of national income used for public expenditure has remain fairly constant around the long term average of 42% how can you claim Brown has wasted public money to an unprecedented extent.

GDP has been inflated by the short termist policies of mortgaging the future. Future growth will be lower as a result of the recent 'boom'. The true extent of the squandering by Brown will be felt as the bills are paid. The current credit crunch is a manifestation of this - as will be the future changes to public sector pensions.

 

For a summary of the waste by Brown have a look at books such as Squandered, Plundering the Private Sector, Fantasy Island, The Bumper Book of Government Waste etc. Eye watering and shameful.