Hearts title challenge over

[Hackney Hearts]

Well that's it. The weekend's results mean we can no longer win the league.

The dream is over!

However, for that to happen with only 5 games left is surely a sign of progress? 

 

And 2nd place is still up for grabs......

[Victorian]

Tongue in cheek of course but I immediately thought of one particular season in comparison.  I think I'm right in saying that the 1987/88 team (imo our best team since the 50s/60s with the possible exception of 2005/06) took the possibility of winning the league to 3 matches to go.  1997/98 would be similar.

[martoon]

19 wins in 33 games is remarkable for a club outwith the OF. As is 62 points from a possible 99.

 

Hopefully we can get off on the front foot next season, remain in mathematical contention a little longer and get closer to the top 2.

 

This year's Cup or a trophy next season would be nice too.

 

I can see no reason why these goals cannot be achieved.

 

 

[Daveandal]

1 minute ago, martoon said:

19 wins in 33 games is remarkable for a club outwith the OF. As is 62 points from a possible 99.

 

Hopefully we can get off on the front foot next season, remain in mathematical contention a little longer and get closer to the top 2.

 

This year's Cup or a trophy next season would be nice too.

 

I can see no reason why these goals cannot be achieved.

 

 

 

Our away form has been fantastic this season and that's still with dropping points away to Hibs, Dundee, Aberdeen, Ross County and St Mirren.

 

Our home form ironically, although not bad, has been more shakey.

 

What I'm saying is there is still room for improvement. It will be hard with Europe and fans might have to calm expectations but if we can continue on this path its an increasingly exciting time to be a Jambo.

[John Findlay]

1 minute ago, Daveandal said:

 

Our away form has been fantastic this season and that's still with dropping points away to Hibs, Dundee, Aberdeen, Ross County and St Mirren.

 

Our home form ironically, although not bad, has been more shakey.

 

What I'm saying is there is still room for improvement. It will be hard with Europe and fans might have to calm expectations but if we can continue on this path its an increasingly exciting time to be a Jambo.

We haven't dropped points to Hibs away.

[Daveandal]

5 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

We haven't dropped points to Hibs away.

 

I consider anything less and a two goal victory there dropped points 😅

[martoon]

1 hour ago, Daveandal said:

 

I consider anything less and a two goal victory there dropped points 😅

 

😄

 

All fair points in your reply to me, btw.

[heartandsoul]

Big improvement this season. We are usually 40 or 50 points behind the gruesome twosome. 

[Harry Potter]

aye a good season.

[Guess The Crowd]

6 hours ago, Victorian said:

Tongue in cheek of course but I immediately thought of one particular season in comparison.  I think I'm right in saying that the 1987/88 team (imo our best team since the 50s/60s with the possible exception of 2005/06) took the possibility of winning the league to 3 matches to go.  1997/98 would be similar.

 

Agree about 87/88 being the best team - brilliant team, that. 

[jr ewing]

Second?

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

14 points from the first 11 followed by 25 then 23 with 24 we would have been merely 6 points behind. Slow start cost us, I think Killie Dundee Motherwell and Hibs as real losses, 2 out of 12

[naeclue]

I'm delighted at the season, but pissed off that we didn't hold on to win at Ibrox right at the start of Clement as manager.  I think that would have set Rangers back, but they scraped some results and built momentum.  I feel like we could have been closer to them in the league.

 

I'm happy that we are retaining more and more of a nucleus of players, and that we have a management team in Forest, McAvoy and Naismith.  Tough to progress, but I think we're giving ourselves the best of chances.

[Lone Striker]

7 hours ago, martoon said:

19 wins in 33 games is remarkable for a club outwith the OF. As is 62 points from a possible 99.

 

Hopefully we can get off on the front foot next season, remain in mathematical contention a little longer and get closer to the top 2.

 

This year's Cup or a trophy next season would be nice too.

 

I can see no reason why these goals cannot be achieved.

 

 

It is indeed  remarkable.  So is the fact that we're "only" 16 points behind the league leaders.  That'll probably stretch to 24  after the next 5 games - but even that would be  an achievement which we never thought possible back in September.   Add in the 2 Cup semis  (and who knows, maybe a final too), this has been a brilliant season.  

 

Got to give the Board a lot of credit for believing in Naisy's ability to make the step up, and standing by him when there was concern among fans about it all.

 

 

[queensferryjambo]

7 hours ago, Victorian said:

Tongue in cheek of course but I immediately thought of one particular season in comparison.  I think I'm right in saying that the 1987/88 team (imo our best team since the 50s/60s with the possible exception of 2005/06) took the possibility of winning the league to 3 matches to go.  1997/98 would be similar.

 

You are correct, unfortunately after beating Celtic at Tynecastle with 3 games to go we then drew 2 and lost 1 so the league table flattered Celtic a bit more IMO. 

 

Celtic would have won the league had they won at Tynecastle, but then this happened

 

 

 

 

[The White Cockade]

Mad Naisy oot!!!!

[martoon]

32 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

It is indeed  remarkable.  So is the fact that we're "only" 16 points behind the league leaders.  That'll probably stretch to 24  after the next 5 games - but even that would be  an achievement which we never thought possible back in September.   Add in the 2 Cup semis  (and who knows, maybe a final too), this has been a brilliant season.  

 

Got to give the Board a lot of credit for believing in Naisy's ability to make the step up, and standing by him when there was concern among fans about it all.

 

 

 

Absolutely, LS.

 

It's been one of the best season's on my watch (1975 onwards).

 

And, as you suggest, it still has the potential to get better.

 

Feck me, it's magic being a Hearts supporter.

 

 

Edited April 15 by martoon

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

Another season without the title.

Naisy oot 

Budge oot

I’m done. Going to no more games this season.

[LarrysRightFoot]

9 hours ago, Victorian said:

Tongue in cheek of course but I immediately thought of one particular season in comparison.  I think I'm right in saying that the 1987/88 team (imo our best team since the 50s/60s with the possible exception of 2005/06) took the possibility of winning the league to 3 matches to go.  1997/98 would be similar.

I think it’s lost on some how close we were that season. Finished 3rd but only 7 points behind Celtic. 
 

I maintain Albertz 108th minute deflected free kick equaliser at Ibrox cost us the title. 

[Corstorphine Jambo]

10 hours ago, Victorian said:

Tongue in cheek of course but I immediately thought of one particular season in comparison.  I think I'm right in saying that the 1987/88 team (imo our best team since the 50s/60s with the possible exception of 2005/06) took the possibility of winning the league to 3 matches to go.  1997/98 would be similar.

I think I’m right in saying that if you took away the games between Hearts/Rangers/Celtic in 97/98, Hearts had the most points against the other 7 teams. But I think we only got one win and one draw in the 8 games against the old firm.

[DalryJambo]

11 hours ago, Hackney Hearts said:

Well that's it. The weekend's results mean we can no longer win the league.

The dream is over!

However, for that to happen with only 5 games left is surely a sign of progress? 

 

And 2nd place is still up for grabs......

 

On top of this we chucked away a handful of points at the start of the season, we could easily hav3 been 5 or 6 points better off. It might have evened itself out, but we have made huge progress this season.

[TheBigO]

4 hours ago, Corstorphine Jambo said:

I think I’m right in saying that if you took away the games between Hearts/Rangers/Celtic in 97/98, Hearts had the most points against the other 7 teams. But I think we only got one win and one draw in the 8 games against the old firm.

Therein lies the problem, and the main argument for larger league/2 sets of fixtures

[Watt-Zeefuik]

28 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Therein lies the problem, and the main argument for larger league/2 sets of fixtures

 

As much as I agree with the desire to change the format, at some level if you're going to win the league, you should be able to beat your closest rivals at some point. We drew once against each of the OF sides, didn't win against either in the league. Just convert those two draws to wins, and beat a relegated Hibs at ER in the last derby of the season, and we'd have won the league even going 1W3L against both OF sides.

[i8hibsh]

A couple more wins and I will agree. Not giving a **** for the next 5 games will sour it all. 

 

Beating Celtic twice is dream stuff and that big run was exceptional. Getting 3 astuste pre contract signings in early was fantastic. Our discipline has improved too and our defence is better than last season.

 

Now the negatives:

 

1. Europe was a disaster

2. Too many injuries (again)

3. Not scored enough goals.

4. Not beaten Hibs enough.

5. Not beaten Rangers.

6. No real signs of decent youth again. Tait seams the one likely to make it but he is still way off.

7. Poor player sales again.

 

 

 

[ShortmanRossco]

51 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

A couple more wins and I will agree. Not giving a **** for the next 5 games will sour it all. 

 

Beating Celtic twice is dream stuff and that big run was exceptional. Getting 3 astuste pre contract signings in early was fantastic. Our discipline has improved too and our defence is better than last season.

 

Now the negatives:

 

1. Europe was a disaster

2. Too many injuries (again)

3. Not scored enough goals.

4. Not beaten Hibs enough.

5. Not beaten Rangers.

6. No real signs of decent youth again. Tait seams the one likely to make it but he is still way off.

7. Poor player sales again.

 

 

 

How on Earth was Europe a disaster?

[LarrysRightFoot]

8 hours ago, Corstorphine Jambo said:

I think I’m right in saying that if you took away the games between Hearts/Rangers/Celtic in 97/98, Hearts had the most points against the other 7 teams. But I think we only got one win and one draw in the 8 games against the old firm.

I think it was 2 draws - 2-2 at Ibrox and 1-1 (I think) at home - Quitongo’s late equaliser when the steward got sent flying. 

 

Another example of how having to play the OF 8 times only helps them. 

We actually won at Ibrox and Parkhead that season (in5)3 Scottish Cup)

 

[Victorian]

10 hours ago, Corstorphine Jambo said:

I think I’m right in saying that if you took away the games between Hearts/Rangers/Celtic in 97/98, Hearts had the most points against the other 7 teams. But I think we only got one win and one draw in the 8 games against the old firm.

 

Think it was no wins.  Two draws with Celtic and one with Rangers.

[TurboT]

12 hours ago, LarrysRightFoot said:

I think it’s lost on some how close we were that season. Finished 3rd but only 7 points behind Celtic. 
 

I maintain Albertz 108th minute deflected free kick equaliser at Ibrox cost us the title. 

We were so close, we didn't beat either of the old firm in the league that season and that cost us.  One win against each of them and we would have won the league.

[N Lincs Jambo]

For me there's too much fixation on our results v the OF in 97-98. In 85-86 Celtic didn't beat us once but still stole the league. When we drew against Hibs on Jan 1st 98 from 2-0 up that was only our second draw that season. I honestly thought after 10 minutes that we were going to put 7 or 8 past them that day. I certainly couldn't see us dropping two points.

 

We had a further eight draws, six of which were from a winning position and we didn't see the game out, one was from a losing position (Quitongo v Celtic) and one was a 0-0 away to Celtic. If we had held on to win 4 of those where we were ahead in the second half we would have won the league. Alas we didn't. Probably due to lack of squad depth in comparison to the gruesome twosome.

[Bazzas right boot]

10 minutes ago, N Lincs Jambo said:

For me there's too much fixation on our results v the OF in 97-98. In 85-86 Celtic didn't beat us once but still stole the league. When we drew against Hibs on Jan 1st 98 from 2-0 up that was only our second draw that season. I honestly thought after 10 minutes that we were going to put 7 or 8 past them that day. I certainly couldn't see us dropping two points.

 

We had a further eight draws, six of which were from a winning position and we didn't see the game out, one was from a losing position (Quitongo v Celtic) and one was a 0-0 away to Celtic. If we had held on to win 4 of those where we were ahead in the second half we would have won the league. Alas we didn't. Probably due to lack of squad depth in comparison to the gruesome twosome.

 

Too much fixation in general with results v the the OF.

 

[martoon]

17 minutes ago, N Lincs Jambo said:

For me there's too much fixation on our results v the OF in 97-98. In 85-86 Celtic didn't beat us once but still stole the league. When we drew against Hibs on Jan 1st 98 from 2-0 up that was only our second draw that season. I honestly thought after 10 minutes that we were going to put 7 or 8 past them that day. I certainly couldn't see us dropping two points.

 

We had a further eight draws, six of which were from a winning position and we didn't see the game out, one was from a losing position (Quitongo v Celtic) and one was a 0-0 away to Celtic. If we had held on to win 4 of those where we were ahead in the second half we would have won the league. Alas we didn't. Probably due to lack of squad depth in comparison to the gruesome twosome.

 

In 1985/86 Celtic didn't beat Dundee Utd either. They took just a point in the 4 meetings. 

 

They beat Aberdeen twice and Rangers once to give a grand total of 3 wins, 7 draws and 6 defeats in 16 games against the top half of the Premier. 

 

It really was a crazy season and inexplicable how they lucky feckers won the title.

[N Lincs Jambo]

4 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

In 1985/86 Celtic didn't beat Dundee Utd either. They took just a point in the 4 meetings. 

 

They beat Aberdeen twice and Rangers once to give a grand total of 3 wins, 7 draws and 6 defeats in 16 games against the top half of the Premier. 

 

It really was a crazy season and inexplicable how they lucky feckers won the title.

 

Didn't know that - lost in the mists of time no doubt. So they won 16 out of 19 against the bottom half of the table plus a win in a non-competitive fixture at Love Street. Very poor form against the other top teams that is.

[I P Knightley]

15 hours ago, HeartsandonlyHearts said:

Another season without the title.

Naisy oot 

Budge oot

I’m done. Going to no more games this season.

You need to go to one of the home games so that you can ceremoniously discard your season ticket, giving the directors' box the finger while doing so. 

[AC Mallin_51]

Think 70 points would be a realistic target going into the split. Hitting that would be a very good achievement 

[JJ93]

If we finish within 12 points of 2nd that will be tremendous.

[GlasgoJambo]

Ffs

 

 

[Victorian]

1 hour ago, martoon said:

 

In 1985/86 Celtic didn't beat Dundee Utd either. They took just a point in the 4 meetings. 

 

They beat Aberdeen twice and Rangers once to give a grand total of 3 wins, 7 draws and 6 defeats in 16 games against the top half of the Premier. 

 

It really was a crazy season and inexplicable how they lucky feckers won the title.

 

Celtic won their last 8 maches.  Their final dropped point was a home draw vs Hearts.  

[Victorian]

Celtic played a very late game in hand in midweek before the last match.  I think it might have been home vs Dundee.  Again,  I think,  they only opened the scoring at roughly 75 mins.  It was on the radio and damn near ended up as the day we won the title.

[martoon]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

Celtic played a very late game in hand in midweek before the last match.  I think it might have been home vs Dundee.  Again,  I think,  they only opened the scoring at roughly 75 mins.  It was on the radio and damn near ended up as the day we won the title.

 

It was at Motherwell on the Wednesday night (Apr30). 0-2 Celtic.

 

Many thought that game was their chance to eat into the gd but, 'Well, to their credit, didn't just fold. Iirc, Celtic only secured the win with just a few minutes left.

[martoon]

8 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Celtic won their last 8 maches.  Their final dropped point was a home draw vs Hearts.  

 

Pedant alert, Vic. The 4-4 draw at Ibrox was the last point they dropped.

[Victorian]

10 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

It was at Motherwell on the Wednesday night (Apr30). 0-2 Celtic.

 

Many thought that game was their chance to eat into the gd but, 'Well, to their credit, didn't just fold. Iirc, Celtic only secured the win with just a few minutes left.

 

Yes.  Motherwell away.  The Dundee home match was their 3rd last.  I can't find the scoring details for them.

 

9 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

Pedant alert, Vic. The 4-4 draw at Ibrox was the last point they dropped.

 

I see that.  It just shows how some of these details get mixed in the mind over the years.  I have long thought that stat was accurate.  It clearly isn't.  In fact Dundee United drew with them in between those games.

 

They then had 4 odd-goal wins afterwards.

[N Lincs Jambo]

Quite nice that we can even begin to compare this current team with the ones of 85-86 and 97-98. If we take the 85-86 season we were on 66 points (adjusted to 3 points for a win) after 33 games in contrast with this year's 62. Rangers were on 44 in 85-86 (adjusted) and Celtic on 58 with a game in hand. 

 

In 97-98 we were on 63 points after 33 games with Celtic on 69 and Rangers on 66 with a game in hand. So bottom line is we are fairly comparable but the arse cheeks have pulled away. Looking at some of the crowds both Celtic and Rangers got in 85-86 especially and they are quite pathetic by today's standards. Having said that we were struggling to pull 10K in regularly until we started winning.

[martoon]

58 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Yes.  Motherwell away.  The Dundee home match was their 3rd last.  I can't find the scoring details for them.

 

 

I see that.  It just shows how some of these details get mixed in the mind over the years.  I have long thought that stat was accurate.  It clearly isn't.  In fact Dundee United drew with them in between those games.

 

They then had 4 odd-goal wins afterwards.

 

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

 

I see I mis-remembered the score times in the Motherwell match.  But I see they beat St.Mirren in the 87th min and then Hibs in 80 & 87.  

 

*****.

[martoon]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

I see I mis-remembered the score times in the Motherwell match.  But I see they beat St.Mirren in the 87th min and then Hibs in 80 & 87.  

 

*****.

 

I did, too.

[N Lincs Jambo]

10 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

 

Looking at these results the one on April 5th St Mirren 1-2 Celtic kind of stands out. I think they might actually have tried a leg that day.

[martoon]

54 minutes ago, N Lincs Jambo said:

 

Looking at these results the one on April 5th St Mirren 1-2 Celtic kind of stands out. I think they might actually have tried a leg that day.

 

Aye.

 

Tbh, I wasn't really looking that far down the League table at that time. I naively believed it was a 2 horse race between ourselves and United.

 

The 18 year old me certainly got smacked about the head by the beautiful game at the end of that season.

[N Lincs Jambo]

2 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

Aye.

 

Tbh, I wasn't really looking that far down the League table at that time. I naively believed it was a 2 horse race between ourselves and United.

 

The 18 year old me certainly got smacked about the head by the beautiful game at the end of that season.

 

It was certainly competitive. A genuine 4-way title race with only one arse cheek in the race. I think Aberdeen were ultimately done for when Ferguson took over the Scotland job whilst still managing the sheep. Still kept them in it till the final few fixtures.

 

I was working abroad from September 85 so apart from the opening fixtures and 5 games when I came home for Christmas and the New Year I missed most of the best bits especially winning at Darkheid and Tannadice. Got time off to come back for Dens and the Cup Final. Loved working abroad but hated that it coincided with that unforgettable season.

[martoon]

11 minutes ago, N Lincs Jambo said:

 

It was certainly competitive. A genuine 4-way title race with only one arse cheek in the race. I think Aberdeen were ultimately done for when Ferguson took over the Scotland job whilst still managing the sheep. Still kept them in it till the final few fixtures.

 

I was working abroad from September 85 so apart from the opening fixtures and 5 games when I came home for Christmas and the New Year I missed most of the best bits especially winning at Darkheid and Tannadice. Got time off to come back for Dens and the Cup Final. Loved working abroad but hated that it coincided with that unforgettable season.

 

United could still have got 50 points even after our 0-3 win at Tannadice.

They chucked away 3 points against Clydebank and St. Mirren in the last few matches.

 

I'll bet they were kicking themselves, too.

[Hackney Hearts]

1 hour ago, N Lincs Jambo said:

 

Looking at these results the one on April 5th St Mirren 1-2 Celtic kind of stands out. I think they might actually have tried a leg that day.

 

Kind of stands out that St Mirren had just beaten Motherwell (away), Rangers and Dundee Utd (a big deal in those days) - before suddenly losing form in the final game.