Craigmillar double murder

[Herbert.]

3 hours ago, Philstampscleaner said:

Does anyone know if there is absolutely any rationale behind these abhorrent atrocities?  It's difficult enough to comprehend that any human would do this to another but surely there had to be some reason ?

 

Was it money, some kind of gang fued, etc?  I note this Bronco just seems an unhinged mental case but is this just completely random?  It can't be?

 

The evil details of what happened are laid bare and make for grim, uncomfortable reading but there doesn't even seem to be any note of any (perceived) justification which makes it somehow even more disturbing (for me anyway).

 

The 2 guys didnt sound like they were into gangs or drugs. Might be homophibic or just they wanted to and these 2 were easy targets.

[Spellczech]

21 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

I'm baffled that it costs this much. I can never really work it out.

 

Build prison. Arm the guards. Lock in cell. Surely that's buttons.

 

For 'lesser' crimes and stuff better options could exist in exchange for labour that's beneficial to society.

it cost that much when I was at uni in the mid-1990s - will be more by now...

[Taffin]

5 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

it cost that much when I was at uni in the mid-1990s - will be more by now...

 

Yeh, sorry I wasn't meaning I don't believe the figures. I'm just at a loss as to how/why we've got a system that costs so much. Like how can it cost more to put someone in a cell than for someone to live a regular life?!? The mind boggles. 

[Spellczech]

You get the feeling that this pair decided that prison life was for them and made sure they got it.

[the posh bit]

5 hours ago, Wish said:

 Aside from the horrific details of the murders, who in their right mind goes around giving it YLT at the age of 60 odd.

 

There's similar aged folk in The Terrace posting about getting Gorgie Rules tattoos. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 minutes ago, the posh bit said:

 

There's similar aged folk in The Terrace posting about getting Gorgie Rules tattoos. 

Weirdos.

[Салатные палочки]

Grim all round. Sadly, the son probably never stood a chance with that as his auld man. 

[Rupert Custard]

1 hour ago, Spellczech said:

You get the feeling that this pair decided that prison life was for them and made sure they got it.

Maybe not - they tried to overdose on methadone but weren’t as adept at killing themselves as they were to others.

[Mr Sifter]

1 hour ago, the posh bit said:

 

There's similar aged folk in The Terrace posting about getting Gorgie Rules tattoos. 

 

1 hour ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Weirdos.

Quite the leap there lads. No sure the guy who wants a tattoo deserves to be thrown in with this, but hey ho 🙄

[Peebo]

Just now, Mr Sifter said:

 

Quite the leap there lads. No sure the guy who wants a tattoo deserves to be thrown in with this, but hey ho 🙄

Was about to type the same. Jesus wept. 

[Jambo314]

I briefly remember the McLeod family during the late 60's when they stayed in Muirhouse. I think they stayed in a flat directly adjacent to the old Silverknowes Primary School on Muirhouse Drive?

 

I remember there being four brothers, Kenny, Ian. Garry and Derek. They were well known to be a handful in those days but nothing really of note.

 

I was quite friendly with Garry with him being in my class and that we both played football for the primary school football team. This would probably have been around 1969/70 before they moved to Leith. I vaguely remember them moving to West Bowling Green Street as I had a few weekend sleepovers there.  I obviously didn't upset any of the brothers during my visits as I'm still here to tell the story 55 years later lol

 

I lost contact with Garry a short while later and never came across him or any of his brothers ever again. However, I do remember reading this story about his unfortunate death in back in 2005.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4156258.stm

 

 

[henryheart]

22 hours ago, Tazio said:

You know how people on forums etc are fond of saying things like “anybody spoke to me like that I’d deck them” or mentions of what they’d do in something like road rage or some such petty offence? Bams like these are the reason it’s not clever behaviour. A wee traffic incident or a falling out over a parking space and boom off they go! Some even tracking people down. 

 

Spot on. A friend of mine was involved in a minor road incident a few years back and went to a police station to report it. The police officer took the registration number away to check if it corresponded with the vehicle involved and it did, but his off the record advice was "if I was you I would walk out of here and put it behind you. You really don't want to be messing with the car owner."  

[cosanostra]

4 hours ago, henryheart said:

 

Spot on. A friend of mine was involved in a minor road incident a few years back and went to a police station to report it. The police officer took the registration number away to check if it corresponded with the vehicle involved and it did, but his off the record advice was "if I was you I would walk out of here and put it behind you. You really don't want to be messing with the car owner."  

 

Good of the cop to give them that heads up. On the other hand, he might not have been arsed with the paper work. 

[J.T.F.Robertson]

7 hours ago, Mr Sifter said:

 

Quite the leap there lads. No sure the guy who wants a tattoo deserves to be thrown in with this, but hey ho 🙄

 

7 hours ago, Peebo said:

Was about to type the same. Jesus wept. 

 

Perfectly reasonable comparison, imo. 😅

 

[By The Light..]

19 hours ago, Philstampscleaner said:

Does anyone know if there is absolutely any rationale behind these abhorrent atrocities?  It's difficult enough to comprehend that any human would do this to another but surely there had to be some reason ?

 

Was it money, some kind of gang fued, etc?  I note this Bronco just seems an unhinged mental case but is this just completely random?  It can't be?

 

The evil details of what happened are laid bare and make for grim, uncomfortable reading but there doesn't even seem to be any note of any (perceived) justification which makes it somehow even more disturbing (for me anyway).

 

The victims were known to the murderers and both invited the flat separately.

 

Desmond Rowlings was a neighbour of the older one and he was invited in, the other Derek Johnston was invited as well and even though he feared for his life he turned up so must've been duped into thinking it was all okay!

 

The court heard that days before the murders Mr Johnston, who lived in the Liberton area of Edinburgh, told a neighbour that he had heard "Ian and Denim were out to kill him." Advocate depute Gavin Anderson said: "Mr Johnston appeared to consider the threat to be real. Mr Johnston did not report his concerns to the police."

 

On October 31 in 2022 MacLeod senior went to the flat of his neighbour Mr Rowlings, a retired joiner, and invited him to his home. The following day would have been the victim's 67th birthday and his partner tried to call him to wish him 'happy birthday'.

 

[theshed]

15 hours ago, Jambo314 said:

I briefly remember the McLeod family during the late 60's when they stayed in Muirhouse. I think they stayed in a flat directly adjacent to the old Silverknowes Primary School on Muirhouse Drive?

 

I remember there being four brothers, Kenny, Ian. Garry and Derek. They were well known to be a handful in those days but nothing really of note.

 

I was quite friendly with Garry with him being in my class and that we both played football for the primary school football team. This would probably have been around 1969/70 before they moved to Leith. I vaguely remember them moving to West Bowling Green Street as I had a few weekend sleepovers there.  I obviously didn't upset any of the brothers during my visits as I'm still here to tell the story 55 years later lol

 

I lost contact with Garry a short while later and never came across him or any of his brothers ever again. However, I do remember reading this story about his unfortunate death in back in 2005.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4156258.stm

 

 

Reading that link and the guy got 15 years for murder so will be walking around now. 
 

Still can’t get my head around 15 years for murder 

[The Real Maroonblood]

26 minutes ago, theshed said:

Reading that link and the guy got 15 years for murder so will be walking around now. 
 

Still can’t get my head around 15 years for murder 

Going back 30 or 40 years it was not uncommon for prisoners sentenced to life doing even 12 years then being released.

 

[Spellczech]

21 hours ago, Jambo314 said:

I briefly remember the McLeod family during the late 60's when they stayed in Muirhouse. I think they stayed in a flat directly adjacent to the old Silverknowes Primary School on Muirhouse Drive?

 

I remember there being four brothers, Kenny, Ian. Garry and Derek. They were well known to be a handful in those days but nothing really of note.

 

I was quite friendly with Garry with him being in my class and that we both played football for the primary school football team. This would probably have been around 1969/70 before they moved to Leith. I vaguely remember them moving to West Bowling Green Street as I had a few weekend sleepovers there.  I obviously didn't upset any of the brothers during my visits as I'm still here to tell the story 55 years later lol

 

I lost contact with Garry a short while later and never came across him or any of his brothers ever again. However, I do remember reading this story about his unfortunate death in back in 2005.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4156258.stm

 

 

Good to know such a nutter is back amongst us...

[tightrope]

6 hours ago, theshed said:

Reading that link and the guy got 15 years for murder so will be walking around now. 
 

Still can’t get my head around 15 years for murder 

He is not out. 15 is the recommendation before he can apply for parole. He is still In though moving in the right direction for release.

[grantsut]

Grew up in Edinburgh and aunt was a criminal solicitor...so always been fascinated by all the Edinburgh underworld dynamics - whether gang related (Webley shooting recently for example) or other criminal activity. 

 

This honestly to me is one of the most disturbing incidents I've ever known about...and forget within Edinburgh/Scotland...to me its as disturbing as any infamous serial murder case out there. It's just made so much more tangible by way of through knowing that part of the city and those grim tower blocks. 

 

The poster above who knew one of this psychopaths brothers...fascinating!! I had the unfortunate experience of meeting his murderer's younger brother, Justin Lovell, over a decade ago. He was then found to be a serial rapist and jailed for 7 years...Man guilty of raping two sleeping women in Edinburgh (scotsman.com)

 

As a city its a funny place Edinburgh...not a 'village' like some people exaggerate, but the degrees of separation between people are ridiculous, particularly if you socialized heavily as a teen across schools (public and state). If you wanted to somehow branch into a social crowd that had connections to people like Webley, it wasn't hard to do. 

 

Obviously dug a lot into Macleod senior...absolutely terrifying and in my view a cataclysmic failure of the justice system that he was out in the real world after what he did to his ex wife. That in itself was one of the most violent sickening crimes I've read about...she was stunning and for him to take away her image and life like that should have seen him incarcerated indefinitely in an asylum. He clearly wasn't just some violent nutter...was obviously deeply disturbed and suffering from severe psychopathic tendencies. 

 

The story of how Rowlings and Johnstone were 'invited' around is just terrifying...the worst part of it all is how long the police estimate the incidents went on for, with Rowlings stepping into the flat long after Johnstone's attack would have started. It is just so terrifying...

 

Speculation as to why it happened? People at the time were quick to assume Rowlings/Johnstone were historical paedophiles online...as I understand it, this is totally untrue and horrifically, they were just two vulnerable people who these animals prayed on. The only thing I can find online is an old reddit comment from the time of crime which claims he knew Des and Bronco to be neighborly friends, constantly around at each others home on genuinely good terms. The whole thing is just so impossible to grasp. 

 

Anyone else on here come from across the Macleod senior before? It's interesting from earlier poster who knew brother...what the hell made this guy so incredibly violent?! Jesus...so shocking.