Craigmillar double murder

[Rupert Custard]

Horrific. Is there a backstory to this or just sheer evil?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ced03gpjqg2o

[The Real Maroonblood]

That’s absolutely mind boggling.

Don’t know any background.

Edited April 8 by The Real Maroonblood

[Victorian]

Hopefully get eaten alive in nick.  

[Tazio]

They’ve been mentioned on here before. Just a pair of evil *******s basically, you have to be a special kind of deranged to do what they did. 

[Hansel]

Absolutely brutal. They'll get some prison justice 

[XB52]

I remember the Mcleods and the Moss's had an ongoing feud when I lived in Niddrie, including guns and machetes. Daftest thing was they were next door neighbours but always took their battles out of Niddrie.

[Jim_Duncan]

These folk seem to inhabit a different world in terms of behaviour, morals and ability to act on worst instincts. As good a case as any for those who seek to reintroduce capital punishment. Not sure what good keeping them alive actually does. 

[AndyNic]

The words "YLT" blowtorched on to their foreheads? ****ing hell. Is this some sore of young team / gangland feud? Mental.

[Morgan]

This kind of thing is a whole world of incomprehension to me.

 

 

[By The Light..]

1 hour ago, Jim_Duncan said:

These folk seem to inhabit a different world in terms of behaviour, morals and ability to act on worst instincts. As good a case as any for those who seek to reintroduce capital punishment. Not sure what good keeping them alive actually does. 

 

Absolutely.

 

Judge Lord Arthurson ordered that the pair should serve at least 34 years in jail before they can apply to be released on parole.

 

The 66y/o father won't live 34 years, lets hope his son dies 1st as he's only 42 to inflict some suffering on the father. 

They'll both cost us the taxpayer at least £1K a week so £50K a year each.

Capital punishment is wrong if there's even the slightest doubt but in this case should be a swift execution.

 

 

[William H. Bonney]

Quite a bit more insight to the events and picture of the accused. 

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/first-picture-edinburgh-dad-son-28958930

[Tazio]

13 minutes ago, William H. Bonney said:

Quite a bit more insight to the events and picture of the accused. 

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/first-picture-edinburgh-dad-son-28958930

The son was well know where I lived a few years ago. I didn’t recognise his real name but Denim was a well know name and graffiti tagger. 

[William H. Bonney]

30 minutes ago, Tazio said:

The son was well know where I lived a few years ago. I didn’t recognise his real name but Denim was a well know name and graffiti tagger. 

 

The father attacked his wife a good few years back. Stabbed her in the face with a corkscrew. 

[Byyy The Light]

14 minutes ago, William H. Bonney said:

 

The father attacked his wife a good few years back. Stabbed her in the face with a corkscrew. 

Read some crazy stuff about him. Known as Bronco back in the day apparently. A madman by all accounts

[If carlsberg did rivals...]

Clearly a pair of scumbags, the son looks familiar, I've probably seen his photo when he's been sentenced for something else.

[Gorgiewave]

Apparently the father is one of the inspirations for Begbie.

 

[Taffin]

2 hours ago, By The Light.. said:

 

Absolutely.

 

Judge Lord Arthurson ordered that the pair should serve at least 34 years in jail before they can apply to be released on parole.

 

The 66y/o father won't live 34 years, lets hope his son dies 1st as he's only 42 to inflict some suffering on the father. 

They'll both cost us the taxpayer at least £1K a week so £50K a year each.

Capital punishment is wrong if there's even the slightest doubt but in this case should be a swift execution.

 

 

 

I'm baffled that it costs this much. I can never really work it out.

 

Build prison. Arm the guards. Lock in cell. Surely that's buttons.

 

For 'lesser' crimes and stuff better options could exist in exchange for labour that's beneficial to society.

[Mikey1874]

Following cases from America, the death penalty in these sort of clear cut cases makes a lot of sense. 

[JWL]

2 hours ago, Byyy The Light said:

Read some crazy stuff about him. Known as Bronco back in the day apparently. A madman by all accounts

 

Aye, that was his name in Leith back in the day. Psycho that somehow got a license to run a bar in Duke Street back in the 90's. Can't for the life of me remember the name of it. The post from @William H. Bonney earlier is correct and she was a stunning looking girl.

[Dagger Is Back]

https://www.eastlothiancourier.com/news/13553939.corkscrew-attacker-jailed/
 

 

[hughesie27]

This was the case that got leaked by the police who first attended the scene at the time and the details were shared across WhatsApp. 

[indianajones]

29 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

This was the case that got leaked by the police who first attended the scene at the time and the details were shared across WhatsApp. 

 

Yep. Was grim reading. 

 

 

[Sooks]

Well that is the worst thing I have ever read then

[Carl Weathers]

The name Denim McLeod rings a bell from my schooldays. Sure he was a bampot from Leith.

[Morgan]

Imagine even admitting to knowing of trash like that, let alone breathing the same air as them?

 

🤷🏿‍♂️

[Cranston]

Absolutely horrendous evil wicked behaviour. Their newspaper photos chill me too, that they look quite ordinary. Thank feck they've both been locked up for a long long time. Hope his wife finds some comfort in the fact he will die in jail. 

[Tazio]

4 hours ago, Tazio said:

The son was well know where I lived a few years ago. I didn’t recognise his real name but Denim was a well know name and graffiti tagger. 

 

14 minutes ago, Carl Weathers said:

The name Denim McLeod rings a bell from my schooldays. Sure he was a bampot from Leith.

Yep. Ran around Easter Road, Albert Street, and Pilrig. His name used to be sprayed or written everywhere. 

[William H. Bonney]

You'd have to imagine that McLeod snr has most likely killed before. An extraordinarly violent man. 

[Gorgiewave]

The judge's full remarks:

 

https://judiciary.scot/home/sentences-judgments/sentences-and-opinions/2024/04/08/hma-v-ian-john-macleod-and-dean-ian-macleod

 

How do people get like this?

HMA v Ian John MacLeod and Dean Ian MacLeod

Apr 8, 2024

At the High Court in Edinburgh, Lord Arthurson sentenced Ian John MacLeod and Dean Ian MacLeod to life imprisonment with a punishment part of 34 years, after they both pled guilty to two murders.

On sentencing Lord Arthurson made the following remarks in court:

Please be aware the statement contains an extremely graphic description of the offences which may be distressing to read.

" "The cowardly actions of monsters.”  These are the words of one of the bereaved family members in this case.

Ian John MacLeod and Dean Ian McLeod, you have committed crimes which can be summarised as an evil and premeditated killing spree, laced with sadism and quite extreme instrumental violence, in the course of which the two of you killed and killed again, apparently simply out of bloodlust.

Each of you has this morning at a further continued preliminary hearing tendered pleas of guilty to the murders of two men at a flat in Greendykes House, 14 Greendykes Road, Edinburgh between the dates 30 October and 1 November, 2022.  You carried out a concerted and wholly murderous attack on your victims, using hammers, machetes, a Stanley knife and a blow torch. The level of force used by you was such that a hammer was left embedded in the head of one of your victims.  The extreme nature of your criminal conduct was such that you severed parts of your victims’ noses, an upper lip and ears and forced a metal nail into the orbit of the eyes of one of your victims, to the extent that these nails passed into his skull vault next to the brain. You also burned lettering with a blow torch into the forehead and chest respectively of your victims.

Your victims were Mr Derek Johnston, aged 37, and Mr Desmond Rowlings, aged 66. Mr Johnston was a loving son and brother, a good neighbour and friend who has been described as caring and compassionate and who loved nature and animals. Mr Rowlings was a loving father and partner, a hardworking man who had lived with significant back pain. Both were individuals with some vulnerabilities.

The dreadful narrative of events has just been read by the Crown.  I do not propose to rehearse the full terms of that.  I note from it the significant following elements, however.

Only weeks prior to these murders a quantity of blue plastic overshoes, white forensic suits and goggles, were acquired.  These forensic suits and blue shoe covers were found in a holdall on the living room floor at the locus, together with Stanley blades, duct tape, a saw and a box of nails.  Also found in the living room were cable ties, a saw and bloodstained blue gloves.

Each of your victims was invited in turn by you to the locus, where each was in due course murdered by you.  You left a handwritten note in the hallway of the flat, stating, very accurately as it happens, that “what we done was evil and sadistic”, and expressing in terms what appears to be regret that you had not targeted more victims.  In a pouch in your belongings the police found a piece of Mr Johnston’s ear, a piece of Mr Johnston’s flesh, a piece of Mr Rowlings’ nose and a piece of Mr Rowlings’ flesh.

The survival time of your victims has been assessed as being at least a few hours between the infliction of at least some of the head injuries and death in the case of Mr Johnston, and at least a few hours between the infliction of blunt force injury to the brain and death in the case of Mr Rowlings.  Whether either was conscious during these time periods appears to be unknown. No evidence was found that the blow torch burn injuries occurred during life.  In respect of Mr Johnston, the hammer was embedded in the skull and the nails were driven into the eyes after death, and the tip of his nose and left ear were removed after death.  Pathological examination was unable to provide a timescale in respect of Mr Rowlings’ injuries.  Mr Johnston was found to have at least 28 separate injuries to the head, neck and upper and lower limbs.  Mr Rowlings was found to have 136 distinct injuries to the head, neck, front and back torso and upper and lower limbs.  Several of these comprised groups of injuries, however, so the total number of injuries sustained by him will in fact have been considerably greater.  Blood and hair from one of your victims was found on footwear worn by you in the kitchen.  The charnel house nature of the locus was such that walls and even the ceiling were extensively and heavily bloodstained.

Ian John MacLeod, you are now aged 66.  You have a criminal record which discloses three prior custodial disposals.  Only one is of any note, namely your conviction in the High Court in 2009 for the crime of assault to severe injury, permanent disfigurement and danger to life, in respect of which you received an extended sentence comprising a 6 year custodial part with a 2 year extension.

Dean Ian McLeod, you are now aged 42.  You have served seven prior custodial sentences. All but one of your previous convictions has been at summary level.  Some of your offending has related to weapons, namely a knife and a hammer. In the hammer matter your case proceeded on a sheriff and jury indictment.

I have listened with particular care to the submissions advanced in mitigation on behalf of each of you by your respective senior counsel, and propose to take all of the points made by them into account in determining the final disposal of this indictment.  In particular I note Ian John MacLeod the lengthy gaps in your offending record; your ongoing history of significant ill health, including progressive Parkinson’s disease; and what has been submitted regarding the utility of your pleas today. In your case Dean Ian MacLeod I note the background to and the utility of your pleas today; a possible diagnosis of post traumatic stress disorder in respect of you and your mental health history generally.

The sentence for the crime of murder is fixed by law and is one of imprisonment for life.  The court requires as part of the sentencing exercise in such cases to select a period known as the punishment part of that settled disposal.  The punishment part is the number of years which you must serve before you can be considered for release on life licence.  You must understand that when the court sets this tariff it is not in any sense appointing the time when you will be released.  Instead, the court is fixing the number of years which must be served by you before you can actually apply for release.  The punishment part does not take into account the need for public protection.  That vital matter is taken into account by the Parole Board for Scotland if and when any application is made by you in due course for release.  The punishment part does, however, take into account the sentencing requirements of retribution and deterrence.  In fixing the punishment part for each of you I require therefore to reflect the need to punish you for your crimes of murder and to deter others from committing that crime.

In selecting appropriate punishment parts for each of you I take principally into account the sheer gravity of the crimes of murder committed by you in this case, and indeed the whole circumstances surrounding these crimes, which I have already attempted to summarise, together with, quantum valeat, your respective criminal antecedents.  The offending by each of you in this case is offending of exceptional gravity.  This is on any view one of the worst cases of murder ever to come before the High Court of Justiciary.  It contains in my assessment the following seriously aggravating features.  You each committed two murders. Your offending was planned and premeditated in its nature. You armed yourselves with a whole variety of weapons.  You invited or lured your victims sequentially to the locus. The violence was extreme, sustained and prolonged, demonstrating exceptional brutality and sadism. Your victims, who were vulnerable individuals, had done you no harm whatsoever. You have displayed no empathy or remorse to even the smallest extent in respect of your victims and their familes. Finally, I note the elements of degrading violence inflicted to the bodies of your victims, whether or not they were alive or dead at the time, namely the severing of body parts, some retained by you almost as trophies of what you had done, the forcing of nails through the eyes, and the burning of lettering onto the victims in what can reasonably be inferred to be some sort of branding exercise.  Your appalling crimes demonstrate on your part an immense capacity for wickedness, depravity and sadism.  Your conduct in this case was indeed the cowardly action of monsters, a killing frenzy which can be characterised as recreational murder, in which you killed and tormented your victims for no reason other than bloodlust and your own pleasure.

Turning finally now to disposal, in respect of both charges three and four, taken together and in cumulo, I now pass upon each of you a sentence of imprisonment for life.  I propose to make no distinction between you in terms of determining the punishment part of these life sentences.

On the quite exceptional facts of this case I have decided to set a notional headline punishment part of 36 years.  Taking into account, as I require to, the utility of your pleas of guilty at this late but still pre‑trial stage, I now fix the actual punishment part of your life sentences at 34 years.

Ian John MacLeod, your sentence will be backdated to 4 November 2022, and Dean Ian MacLeod, your sentence will be backdated to 7 November 2022, these being the dates of your respective remands into custody in these proceedings.

Before adjourning the court I would add the following.  In the course of this case police officers, pathologists, forensic scientists and senior Crown and senior defence counsel and their teams have undoubtedly required to examine truly horrific scenes, images and related material.  They have all had to see things that they cannot un-see, as it were.  Speaking for myself, I wish to note this and thereby formally acknowledge their dedicated service to the criminal justice system and the people of Scotland.

 

[Cranston]

6 minutes ago, William H. Bonney said:

You'd have to imagine that McLeod snr has most likely killed before. An extraordinarly violent man. 

I know its not to be joked about, but a lifetime of watching hibs could be the trigger.

[Tazio]

You know how people on forums etc are fond of saying things like “anybody spoke to me like that I’d deck them” or mentions of what they’d do in something like road rage or some such petty offence? Bams like these are the reason it’s not clever behaviour. A wee traffic incident or a falling out over a parking space and boom off they go! Some even tracking people down. 

[Doctor FinnBarr]

41 minutes ago, Cranston said:

I know its not to be joked about, but a lifetime of watching hibs could be the trigger.

 

Your right mate, nothing to be joked about so back off with the smartarse Hibs comments.

[JWL]

21 minutes ago, Tazio said:

You know how people on forums etc are fond of saying things like “anybody spoke to me like that I’d deck them” or mentions of what they’d do in something like road rage or some such petty offence? Bams like these are the reason it’s not clever behaviour. A wee traffic incident or a falling out over a parking space and boom off they go! Some even tracking people down. 

 

Which is exactly what happened to the football player in Birmingham. A wee accidental bump in a busy nightclub and next thing, boom.

[the posh bit]

34 minutes ago, Tazio said:

You know how people on forums etc are fond of saying things like “anybody spoke to me like that I’d deck them” or mentions of what they’d do in something like road rage or some such petty offence? Bams like these are the reason it’s not clever behaviour. A wee traffic incident or a falling out over a parking space and boom off they go! Some even tracking people down. 

 

Yup. 

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/kenneth-noye-m25-murder-danielle-cable-witness-protection-b1060101.html

[il Duce McTarkin]

8 hours ago, Tazio said:

You know how people on forums etc are fond of saying things like “anybody spoke to me like that I’d deck them” or mentions of what they’d do in something like road rage or some such petty offence? Bams like these are the reason it’s not clever behaviour. A wee traffic incident or a falling out over a parking space and boom off they go! Some even tracking people down. 

 

 

Walk away, every time.

[M.N.M]

It really is depressing to know that there are people like this in the world. Many actually.

 

The poor victims really did meet evil that ended their lives. Poor guys. 

[Peebo]

13 hours ago, Tazio said:

You know how people on forums etc are fond of saying things like “anybody spoke to me like that I’d deck them” or mentions of what they’d do in something like road rage or some such petty offence? Bams like these are the reason it’s not clever behaviour. A wee traffic incident or a falling out over a parking space and boom off they go! Some even tracking people down. 

Completely agree with this. I’ve never been one to back down (and being pretty big means I’m rarely physically intimidated by anyone), but the older I get the more I have realised that it just ain’t worth it. Too many lunatics out there.

 

This case is absolutely sickening. Utter scum. 

[Benny Klack]

Absolutely sickening actions from a pair of evil evil men. What always amazes me in events like this, when there are two people carrying out the horrific actions, is that one of them must have to convince the other to go along with it to a certain extent. 
 

Like Fred & Rose West etc - one of them must be the kind of “driving force” and have to convince the other.

 

You have to wonder what the older guy here has experienced in his formative years to screw him up so badly.

[Bindy Badgy]

20 hours ago, By The Light.. said:

 

Absolutely.

 

Judge Lord Arthurson ordered that the pair should serve at least 34 years in jail before they can apply to be released on parole.

 

The 66y/o father won't live 34 years, lets hope his son dies 1st as he's only 42 to inflict some suffering on the father. 

They'll both cost us the taxpayer at least £1K a week so £50K a year each.

Capital punishment is wrong if there's even the slightest doubt but in this case should be a swift execution.

 

 

 

Given the details of their offending, I would be surprised if either of them are released irrespective of how long they live.

[Wish]

 Aside from the horrific details of the murders, who in their right mind goes around giving it YLT at the age of 60 odd.

[Victorian]

1 hour ago, Benny Klack said:

Absolutely sickening actions from a pair of evil evil men. What always amazes me in events like this, when there are two people carrying out the horrific actions, is that one of them must have to convince the other to go along with it to a certain extent. 
 

Like Fred & Rose West etc - one of them must be the kind of “driving force” and have to convince the other.

 

You have to wonder what the older guy here has experienced in his formative years to screw him up so badly.

 

Yes,  it's one of the more mysterious elements of these types of cases.  The dynamic within a joint enterprise.  How it begins,  develops,  sustains.  Something that can usually only be understood by criminologists,  psychologists,  etc.  Perhaps not even them.

 

 

[Lovecraft]

1 hour ago, Benny Klack said:

Absolutely sickening actions from a pair of evil evil men. What always amazes me in events like this, when there are two people carrying out the horrific actions, is that one of them must have to convince the other to go along with it to a certain extent. 
 

Like Fred & Rose West etc - one of them must be the kind of “driving force” and have to convince the other.

 

You have to wonder what the older guy here has experienced in his formative years to screw him up so badly.

 

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

Yes,  it's one of the more mysterious elements of these types of cases.  The dynamic within a joint enterprise.  How it begins,  develops,  sustains.  Something that can usually only be understood by criminologists,  psychologists,  etc.  Perhaps not even them.

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folie_à_deux

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Lovecraft said:

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folie_à_deux

 

  wild stuff to try to understand.  The very darkest corners of the human condition. 

[Gundermann]

21 hours ago, AndyNic said:

The words "YLT" blowtorched on to their foreheads? ****ing hell. Is this some sore of young team / gangland feud? Mental.

 

Something for the next Hibs' promo vid?

 

Btw, am not making light of this horror for football banter but asking how TF are Hibs so desperate that they'd willingly promote these neds and gangsters?

[RustyRightPeg]

Gangland graffiti onto innocent humans.

 

Sadly these guys reps might follow them into the prison and they might be bullet proof.

[Peebo]

24 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:

Gangland graffiti onto innocent humans.

 

Sadly these guys reps might follow them into the prison and they might be bullet proof.

Indeed. Suspect the hope/prediction that “they’ll get what’s coming to them in prison” is wide of the mark. More likely to cause absolute chaos and harm than be targets, I reckon. 

[Philstampscleaner]

Does anyone know if there is absolutely any rationale behind these abhorrent atrocities?  It's difficult enough to comprehend that any human would do this to another but surely there had to be some reason ?

 

Was it money, some kind of gang fued, etc?  I note this Bronco just seems an unhinged mental case but is this just completely random?  It can't be?

 

The evil details of what happened are laid bare and make for grim, uncomfortable reading but there doesn't even seem to be any note of any (perceived) justification which makes it somehow even more disturbing (for me anyway).

[Bull's-eye]

Wasn't an unfortunate accident then ?

[Morgan]

‘This is my dad, Bronco’.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, Lovecraft said:

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folie_à_deux

Yes it’s a very odd and destructive phenomena. By all accounts Hindley was a normal young lass until she became entangled by Brady . This seems to happen in those “ folie a deux “ cases .