Transfer " war chest"

[Bazzas right boot]

What's the thoughts on building up a war chest.

 

For example,  building up a % of our income a year to " unleash " it as a larger amount down the line to really make a difference. 

Is it even possible or beneficial?

 

This could be done as a % of turnover or more crudley siphoned of in a different way. Eg- Foh, hotel profit and player profit for 3/ 5 years saved up to be spent in 1 window to attract players that are currently out of range.

 

Clever use of the Bosman ruling maybe makes this more possible,  however any planned investment would need to be balanced with maintaining us in the current position or things could go to shite.

 

With no large projects on the go, could this be where funds are funneled

 

Is a system feasible,  could we be doing it already with a longer term view in mind regarding player transfers?

 

Or do we just spend what we have when we have it to keep progressing steadily, know that we'll never have the finances to get close to the OF and concentrate on finishing 3rd and go from there?

 

[AlimOzturk]

Need to stay competitive year on year and keep getting European money. That’s what will allow us to steadily increase the wage budget and quality of player. I think we have a brilliant infrastructure in place now which will start reaping its rewards sooner rather than later. 
 

No need for this “war chest” if the club is continually run well from year to year. 

[Bongo 1874]

11 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

What's the thoughts on building up a war chest.

 

For example,  building up a % of our income a year to " unleash " it as a larger amount down the line to really make a difference. 

Is it even possible or beneficial?

 

This could be done as a % of turnover or more crudley siphoned of in a different way. Eg- Foh, hotel profit and player profit for 3/ 5 years saved up to be spent in 1 window to attract players that are currently out of range.

 

Clever use of the Bosman ruling maybe makes this more possible,  however any planned investment would need to be balanced with maintaining us in the current position or things could go to shite.

 

With no large projects on the go, could this be where funds are funneled

 

Is a system feasible,  could we be doing it already with a longer term view in mind regarding player transfers?

 

Or do we just spend what we have when we have it to keep progressing steadily, know that we'll never have the finances to get close to the OF and concentrate on finishing 3rd and go from there?

 

You can secure most good players within pre contracts,if you are clever.

 

And pay fees for players that have potential,if you have an attractive style of play and philosophy.

 

Clubs will more than likely watch, as this fits there criteria, and allows a smooth transition, with said player into club.

 

Brighton play an attractive style so Teams will look at them.

 

Brentford play an attractive style,so Teams will look at them.

 

Bodo play an attractive style so Teams will look at them.

 

What is being coached into these players, and can we take them to that next level and keep improving them.

 

Most clubs have a certain criteria on what they want,and if the player will match style of play and be an asset to team.

 

This is all driven by stats etc and what type of characteristics the player has.

 

For example your man Bazza,is a game changer/ playmaker.

Edited March 29 by Bongo 1874

[Ex member of the SaS]

Getting third year on year means more money from Europe and from the league, added to benefactors and FoH we should pull away from the rest. Hibs fans think they are going places but I can see things falling apart when the pyramid fails ( as all do ). We sign players but we should not be giving long contracts to " possibles " but have options to increase length if they prove worth it. Giving longer contracts to those who we know are worth it. ( not put this very well but I think you get the gist. ) We won't suddenly get world beaters so we have to be content with improving season on season.

[been here before]

Nah

 

WAR CHESTS are only ever available if new owners or new managers come in and are generally only used to SIGNAL INTENTIONS or to SEND A SIGNAL TOP EURO CRACKS.

[johnking123]

War chests for is will come from selling players for biggish money. 

[OTT]

This is going to sound really ****ing boring but:

 

I want us to sustainably compete. War chests and one off income injections won't do that. I would rather see money like that reinvested into the club to deliver better facilities within the stadium which will generate more money for us long term. Getting a new Wheatfield which puts clear daylight between us and Hibs/Aberdeen would be huge. Although, I appreciate the money involved would also be huge  

 

If we're talking about improving things generally, I think focusing in on free transfers and where we can pay more in wages (rather than sink it on transfers) would be better. Although, its always worth remembering under Levein we paid players a high basic because we felt that was the right thing to do and were rewarded with absolute mediocrity. 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Are we planning on a war, hope not, bit too old for combat these days

[been here before]

Just now, OTT said:

This is going to sound really ****ing boring but:

 

I want us to sustainably compete. War chests and one off income injections won't do that. I would rather see money like that reinvested into the club to deliver better facilities within the stadium which will generate more money for us long term. Getting a new Wheatfield which puts clear daylight between us and Hibs/Aberdeen would be huge. Although, I appreciate the money involved would also be huge  

 

If we're talking about improving things generally, I think focusing in on free transfers and where we can pay more in wages (rather than sink it on transfers) would be better. Although, its always worth remembering under Levein we paid players a high basic because we felt that was the right thing to do and were rewarded with absolute mediocrity. 

 

Booooooo

 

They money' there, get it spent. We want a WAR CHEST.

[frankblack]

14 minutes ago, johnking123 said:

War chests for is will come from selling players for biggish money. 

 

Precisely.  Hibs and Aberdeen seem better at recouping mpney for their players while ours always see out their contracts or sign Bosmans and we get shafted.

[OTT]

Just now, been here before said:

 

Booooooo

 

They money' there, get it spent. We want a WAR CHEST.

 

Hahaha yeah, I did warn it was going to be boring  

 

I really think if we could get a vastly expanded Wheatfield over the line we'd see the club leap forward in size massively. Robbie proved last season & the season before that you can fill the stands without laying a glove on the OF. Fans just want a competent team. 

 

If the extra income could allow 3rd to become a forgone conclusion, then we could really start focusing on whats above us

 

Admittidly, after the Levein years, we all probably want to drop the club in transition stuff for a while though. 

 

[Beave1874]

Just a thought but will the Benefactors still donate for the foreseeable? If we are on an even balance will they then reduce the money they kindly donate to us. I know the charities, etc will still benefit but with the Hotel now in place and no major plans I do wonder if we will now see that income reduce. We've been very lucky with the funds they provide along with our own healthy contribution. Noted also that Stella are now our shirt sponsor next season and not a charity.  

[db211833]

Sounds like saving up all your money for a fancy car which you struggle to afford to run and when it breaks down you have no cash to repair it.

[zeke1874]

Don't know about the war chest but continually qualifying for Europe season after season ( long game I ken people want instant success..) will put us in afar stronger position to sign better players.

Long term I'd like to see the foundation money put aside for a major project like stadium expansion. I've pledged since day one and now the club is in a good place financially I'd like to see that money go to something for the future instead of just extra money for the team. We should be able to compete without the pledge money so let's use it for something that will really put us on another level. A 24,000 + capacity stadium would mean we can generate way more money and really pull us away from all the non old firm teams...

[Bazzas right boot]

47 minutes ago, zeke1874 said:

Don't know about the war chest but continually qualifying for Europe season after season ( long game I ken people want instant success..) will put us in afar stronger position to sign better players.

Long term I'd like to see the foundation money put aside for a major project like stadium expansion. I've pledged since day one and now the club is in a good place financially I'd like to see that money go to something for the future instead of just extra money for the team. We should be able to compete without the pledge money so let's use it for something that will really put us on another level. A 24,000 + capacity stadium would mean we can generate way more money and really pull us away from all the non old firm teams...

 

It won't if/when we lose the group stage guaranteed part.

Likely within 2 seasons.

[Bazzas right boot]

4 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

You can secure most good players within pre contracts,if you are clever.

 

And pay fees for players that have potential,if you have an attractive style of play and philosophy.

 

Clubs will more than likely watch, as this fits there criteria, and allows a smooth transition, with said player into club.

 

Brighton play an attractive style so Teams will look at them.

 

Brentford play an attractive style,so Teams will look at them.

 

Bodo play an attractive style so Teams will look at them.

 

What is being coached into these players, and can we take them to that next level and keep improving them.

 

Most clubs have a certain criteria on what they want,and if the player will match style of play and be an asset to team.

 

This is all driven by stats etc and what type of characteristics the player has.

 

For example your man Bazza,is a game changer/ playmaker.

 

 

Yeah, it would be about building up money for wages, to afford that elusive next level player rather than spending  chunks on transfer fees.

 

 

 

 

[joondalupjambo]

The only way chest we need is the one we open pronto to sign Shanks on a new 5 year contract.

[1971fozzy]

The elephant in the room is that guaranteed group stage European football ends next season (or is likely to).

being guaranteed £6m to having a play off (or 2) is a gamble we rightfully won’t take. We need to get player sales on the ball like the sheep and hibs have done

Edited March 29 by 1971fozzy

[GinRummy]

3 hours ago, Jim_Duncan said:

War chest prised open. 

 

Yep, war chest or bust. 

[zeke1874]

The guaranteed euro group stage has been great, but it's not the end of the world if it no longer applies. Just competing by being there will help. Every season we enhance our standing. This season 1 win from 4. Last season  2 wins from 8. Its hardly success but it all goes to enhancing our seeding etc. Smaller clubs than us have made the group stages the hard way thru the qualifiers..

[Berrassobad]

Dunno whos the bigger tit

[OTT]

I really am so ****ing happy at where the club is right now. Getting that new stand sorted has been such a revelation for kicking the club forwards. 

 

Ann Budge, the benefactors and the board deserve huge credit for that, its provided the platform to get us to where we are now, and I'm sure when the Hotel money starts to roll in, we'll see the club keep reaching higher still. 

[Jim_Duncan]

26 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Yep, war chest or bust. 

I intend to fully support the club in their efforts to scout every inch of the Asian market to see what comes up. 

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Jim_Duncan said:

I intend to fully support the club in their efforts to scout every inch of the Asian market to see what comes up. 

[Bongo 1874]

51 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

Yeah, it would be about building up money for wages, to afford that elusive next level player rather than spending  chunks on transfer fees.

 

 

 

 

Tricky task for those involved at club.

 

But if anyone can achieve it,I'm betting on them.

 

 

[Shaggy2]

Remember 1999 and to a lesser extent 2018-20? Spending big does not guarantee success. In fact at a club like Hearts, a few Billy big times could ruin everything.

Steady progress year on year, recruiting better players, for me. 

[sac]

Regular European football money, cup runs, and increasing our fan base, FoH pledgers (stadium expansion somehow) would separate us from the rest.

our full potential is yet unknown, but The city’s population is growing rapidly and we need to be tapping into it.

[gordon simpson]

1 hour ago, Shaggy2 said:

Remember 1999 and to a lesser extent 2018-20? Spending big does not guarantee success. In fact at a club like Hearts, a few Billy big times could ruin everything.

Steady progress year on year, recruiting better players, for me. 

this

[Jim_Duncan]

1 hour ago, Berrassobad said:

Dunno whos the bigger tit

The one on the right. I’ve named it Boycey. 

[RS86]

War chest means big outlay on buying players, which usually means big outlay on wages. If it's not sustainable it makes no sense other than for some short term gratification. We'd soon have to scale it back but would also have to deal with the heightened expectations that came with the spending...

[Watt-Zeefuik]

I would rather we built up a capital projects reserve fund. It's a siren's song to think we're always a player or two away, or that we have to "push the boat out" for a particular player.

 

Just set our playing budget where we can sustain it, get the best players we can, and go about our business well.

[Bunny Munro]

The problem is when you bring in 3-4 players on big wages, the rest of your squad either a) demand the same and/or b) take the hump when we don't pay them the same.

Edited March 29 by Bunny Munro

[Bull's-eye]

Didn't Mrs B recently say, like in the past few weeks that there would be no banking the cash for future reference and it would all be spent on the team for the time being ?

[Hearts1975]

3 hours ago, zeke1874 said:

The guaranteed euro group stage has been great, but it's not the end of the world if it no longer applies. Just competing by being there will help. Every season we enhance our standing. This season 1 win from 4. Last season  2 wins from 8. Its hardly success but it all goes to enhancing our seeding etc. Smaller clubs than us have made the group stages the hard way thru the qualifiers..

It is the end of the world if there is no guarantee of getting the group stages. It will be so difficult as there will be other better teams (at our level) trying to qualify. We get a bad draw 3 seasons running but finish 3rd 3 seasons running, we are hardly making money from this. 

 

Same for the other teams I guess but still, having the guarantee of group games is a big big positive as there is no guarantees where qualifiers are concerned 

[zeke1874]

17 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

It is the end of the world if there is no guarantee of getting the group stages. It will be so difficult as there will be other better teams (at our level) trying to qualify. We get a bad draw 3 seasons running but finish 3rd 3 seasons running, we are hardly making money from this. 

 

Same for the other teams I guess but still, having the guarantee of group games is a big big positive as there is no guarantees where qualifiers are concerned 

I get what you're saying. Of course the guaranteed group stage is a big money earner but if its not available it's out of our hands. The only thing we have in our control is to keep qualifying for Europe. Which should really be the status quo for us in Scottish terms. The more we qualify and play in Europe then slowly our seeding improves. There was an article about it this week ( we are still ranked lower than Aberdeen, simply because they have played in Europe way more than us the last 10 years or so) 

Regular qualification will slowly improve our seeding so hopefully we avoid the stronger teams. PAOK were too much for us this season but that's not to say we couldn't beat a Greek team in the future. Like I said smaller clubs than us have made the group stages the hard way...

[Jim_Duncan]

1 hour ago, Armageddon said:

You had the whole of Google and you picked this? 😂

Sorry, I didn't have time to check the entire internet. 

[hearts 4 the cup]

6 hours ago, zeke1874 said:

Don't know about the war chest but continually qualifying for Europe season after season ( long game I ken people want instant success..) will put us in afar stronger position to sign better players.

Long term I'd like to see the foundation money put aside for a major project like stadium expansion. I've pledged since day one and now the club is in a good place financially I'd like to see that money go to something for the future instead of just extra money for the team. We should be able to compete without the pledge money so let's use it for something that will really put us on another level. A 24,000 + capacity stadium would mean we can generate way more money and really pull us away from all the non old firm teams...

 

As a fellow pledger, I think this is a great idea.

 

if the club needed funds for wherever reason they should always be able to access FOH funds but think in theory we could save FOH money for future stadium improvements etc 

[tian447]

Does it make sense though? 

 

Every year, we see a level of inflation in football that doesn't really exist in the real world. Transfer fees are getting out of hand, and each year a bog standard player costs more money than the year before. 

 

If we put aside £1 million a year for the next 5 years, the £5 million we have ready to splurge on a player won't get us the same calibre of player it would have done at the start of the saving process. 

 

We should look to be more sustainable in our approach, and spend money sensibly as we have it, rather than saving up for a pipe dream that will probably never materialise. 

[jamboinglasgow]

6 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

Yeah, it would be about building up money for wages, to afford that elusive next level player rather than spending  chunks on transfer fees.

 

 

 

 

 

I do think we are doing it the right way.

 

We have built up our income streams with something relatively stable (off the pitch income.) This in turns allows us to increase wages (as seen by our accounts) which means we can afford better players. These players have got us to two semi-finals (at least) of the cup which will bring a lot more income, look to have got us third which hopefully if Aberdeen dont win the cup means at least £5m from the European games next year. And if we sell any players on top of that then its further income.

 

I agree that what we need to do is build our wage bill up, there is a corelation between how much a team spends on wages and where they finish in the league. I think its important to still have money to spend on fees as you cant get all your players by free transfer, but I think anyone expecting us to break the £1m barrier for a player is mistaken. Though interestingly I saw one Costa Rican news account say that we paid $1m for Kenneth Vargas (which works out at around £800k, though I suspect if that is true it probably is including quite a few add ons.)

 

Getting three players signed up on frees, who will be on wages most likely about average or slightly above average for the team, is great planning. Naismith today was saying he is not planning a squad more than 2 or 3 players bigger than now. So it means we should have plenty left to sign decent additions to the squad.

[FarmerTweedy]

12 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

What's the thoughts on building up a war chest.

 

For example,  building up a % of our income a year to " unleash " it as a larger amount down the line to really make a difference. 

Is it even possible or beneficial?

 

This could be done as a % of turnover or more crudley siphoned of in a different way. Eg- Foh, hotel profit and player profit for 3/ 5 years saved up to be spent in 1 window to attract players that are currently out of range.

 

Clever use of the Bosman ruling maybe makes this more possible,  however any planned investment would need to be balanced with maintaining us in the current position or things could go to shite.

 

With no large projects on the go, could this be where funds are funneled

 

Is a system feasible,  could we be doing it already with a longer term view in mind regarding player transfers?

 

Or do we just spend what we have when we have it to keep progressing steadily, know that we'll never have the finances to get close to the OF and concentrate on finishing 3rd and go from there?

 

Not for that idea at all, really. I think there's a strong case for building up a bit of a modest pot as a kind of emergency fund, in case something was to happen which either lumps us with a huge unexpected bit of necessary expenditure or similarly substantial drop in income, so that we wouldn't have to flog a valuable player or something, but I don't see a lot of sense in simply not spending money on the squad when we can comfortably afford to, and therefore having a weaker squad, possibly missing out on cup and European runs, finishing lower in the league, etc, just to be able to spend that money at some point in the future instead. 

[Bazzas right boot]

5 hours ago, FarmerTweedy said:

Not for that idea at all, really. I think there's a strong case for building up a bit of a modest pot as a kind of emergency fund, in case something was to happen which either lumps us with a huge unexpected bit of necessary expenditure or similarly substantial drop in income, so that we wouldn't have to flog a valuable player or something, but I don't see a lot of sense in simply not spending money on the squad when we can comfortably afford to, and therefore having a weaker squad, possibly missing out on cup and European runs, finishing lower in the league, etc, just to be able to spend that money at some point in the future instead. 

 

Tbh, the idea is not to spend any money, it would be to divert funds that were previously used for projects and extra like foh funds and part of players save so that it becomes a more substantial amount.

 

It wouldn't be a case of spend no money, that would be daft.

 

We have a stronger base and no long term projects so there may be scope to "save" some so that thre is a more substantial amount in the medium term future to spend.

 

It wouldn't be a case of spending none, in fact spending would be on par with the last few seasons but with no project's, the funds that we're used for them would go to the "war chest".

 

 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

10 hours ago, Bull's-eye said:

Didn't Mrs B recently say, like in the past few weeks that there would be no banking the cash for future reference and it would all be spent on the team for the time being ?

 

She did.

 

[Bazzas right boot]

7 hours ago, tian447 said:

Does it make sense though? 

 

Every year, we see a level of inflation in football that doesn't really exist in the real world. Transfer fees are getting out of hand, and each year a bog standard player costs more money than the year before. 

 

If we put aside £1 million a year for the next 5 years, the £5 million we have ready to splurge on a player won't get us the same calibre of player it would have done at the start of the saving process. 

 

We should look to be more sustainable in our approach, and spend money sensibly as we have it, rather than saving up for a pipe dream that will probably never materialise. 

 

Tbh, £5m  extra is massive. 

 

It would allow us to afford about 5 players on £10k a week on a 2 year contract on top of that years normal budget, that would be the next level player bracket which we can't afford atm.

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

17 hours ago, OTT said:

This is going to sound really ****ing boring but:

 

I want us to sustainably compete. War chests and one off income injections won't do that. I would rather see money like that reinvested into the club to deliver better facilities within the stadium which will generate more money for us long term. Getting a new Wheatfield which puts clear daylight between us and Hibs/Aberdeen would be huge. Although, I appreciate the money involved would also be huge  

 

If we're talking about improving things generally, I think focusing in on free transfers and where we can pay more in wages (rather than sink it on transfers) would be better. Although, its always worth remembering under Levein we paid players a high basic because we felt that was the right thing to do and were rewarded with absolute mediocrity. 

 

Yeah, free transfers with higher wages seems sensible.

I like this years business already!

[johnking123]

Getting group stage football and player sold for £5million+ every couple of years. We still want to build a squad and not sell it all off. 

[Bazzas right boot]

15 hours ago, db211833 said:

Sounds like saving up all your money for a fancy car which you struggle to afford to run and when it breaks down you have no cash to repair it.

 

Nah, it's like you've just  paid a big fancy car of and have an extra £600 a month freed up, do you just spend  all that monthly on stuff you don't even notice or save some of that up for 2 years and have an extra luxury  holiday as well a spending a bit more month to month on Normal shite.

 

 

Edited March 30 by Bazzas right boot

[Bazzas right boot]

17 hours ago, Lord Beni of Gorgie said:

Are we planning on a war, hope not, bit too old for combat these days

 

No, we aren't planning a war, but we must be prepared for others starting one!

[jamboinglasgow]

26 minutes ago, johnking123 said:

Getting group stage football and player sold for £5million+ every couple of years. We still want to build a squad and not sell it all off. 

 

I do think in an ideal world, we would want to get to a stage where as you say get group stage football and sell two players each season for decent money. Not saying they would got for £5m plus but if the academy produces the way we want then it can mean you can have a cycle in of youngsters that stay a few years, built up and sold for good money. Mixed with recruitment from of players at a youngish age (20-23) who again can get at least a few years out of and sold for good money.

 

Completely agree that what you dont want to do is build then lose lots of players at once to make money. Though it is a risk if we had a really successful season (say managed to get out of the group stage and/or came very close to breaking the Old Firm duopoly) that clubs would target all our players, where we could be faced with a big rebuild.

[Berrassobad]

ffs

[OTT]

2 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Yeah, free transfers with higher wages seems sensible.

I like this years business already!

 

I'm properly impressed by it. It reminds me so much of when JJ signed Sutton, Taouil & Hamill - albeit much more exciting!

 

We've had such a tumultuous time basically since Levein left the first time in the early 00s that I'm really excited about the place the club is in right now. 

 

If we can get a Djoum type in the middle then I think we'll be laughing - although, I'm wondering if that will be Hoff. Like Vargas, a full season under his belt and he'll be laughing. Already seeing his better qualities after a slow start. 

 

Concern is if we lose Shanks, Its a really tough call for the board. Cash in and reinvest, or stick and have a last hurrah season with some real attacking talent beside him.