DUP leader goes offline

[Sooks]

3 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

A bit Fred & Rosemary?

Always a bigger shock to find out women were involved in such things . Maybe it shouldnt be but it always is to me . Hindley and Maxwells daughter for another two 

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Always a bigger shock to find out women were involved in such things . Maybe it shouldnt be but it always is to me . Hindley and Maxwells daughter for another two 

Yep . It’s because women are rarely violent or sexually abusive . That’s not just a stereotype , it’s a fact .  Also when women have been involved in violent offending like Hindley and West they were def initially  heavily by their men . Although they eventually got well invoked and were just as complicit as the men . 

[Sooks]

5 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Yep . It’s because women are rarely violent or sexually abusive . That’s not just a stereotype , it’s a fact .  Also when women have been involved in violent offending like Hindley and West they were def initially  heavily by their men . Although they eventually got well invoked and were just as complicit as the men . 

I think with the Wests it was actually more from her , which makes it even more remarkable to a member of the general public 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Sooks said:

I think with the Wests it was actually more from her , which makes it even more remarkable to a member of the general public 

She was suffered horrific abuse from a young age and then meeting West culminated in their murder spree . Btw not claiming everyone who is abused as a child will turn out to be psychopaths like her . Myra in contrast had a loving childhood and was 💯 groomed by Brady but like I said became a very active participant . 

[Ulysses]

5 hours ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

UK Government statistics says prevalence rate of 2.3% (England and Wales 2022).

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/sexualoffencesinenglandandwalesoverview/march2022

 

In 2022 there were over 50 mps reported offenders , out of 650, which is 7.8%. Granted they're not actually guilty,  but it does give an insight.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10726693/More-50-MPs-reported-sexual-misconduct-parliamentary-watchdog-reveals.html

 

 

Apologies, but those figures are more likely to give an inaccurate picture.  I don't mean to have a go saying that, so I'll explain myself. 

 

The ONS report says that 2.3% were victims of sexual assault in a single year.  Presumably, the percentage of the population who are victims of sexual assaults in their lifetimes would be a lot higher - assuming there were a couple of percent assaulted each year.  It also counts victims, not perpetrators, so unless we know the ratio of perpetrators to victims we don't know what percentage of the population have committed these offences.

 

The figures in the Daily Mail refer to sitting MPs, so unlike the ONS report it presumably includes the full record of the MPs, not just 2022.  But also the figures exclude something and include something else, making comparison with the ONS data impossible. The exclusion is because it only includes people who are current MPs, so it misses any sexual misconduct by former MPs.  The inclusion is because it includes all misconduct, whether criminal or not, including sexual harassment that wouldn't be regarded as criminal in the ONS report.

 

Sorry for going on.  None of this means you'd be wrong to say MPs are more likely than the rest of us to commit sex offences.  It's just that the figures in the two reports don't tell us that, because they're counting different things and aren't directly comparable.

[Ulysses]

7 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

 

I do find it intriguing that one of the conditions was that he and his wife now have to live apart. Otherwise, I'm not going to comment on the allegations.

 

Yep.  I'm merrily speculating away myself, but I wouldn't post my thoughts on a public forum. 

 

 

1 hour ago, I P Knightley said:

A bit Fred & Rosemary?

 

We'll see.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

1 hour ago, Ulysses said:

 

Apologies, but those figures are more likely to give an inaccurate picture.  I don't mean to have a go saying that, so I'll explain myself. 

 

The ONS report says that 2.3% were victims of sexual assault in a single year.  Presumably, the percentage of the population who are victims of sexual assaults in their lifetimes would be a lot higher - assuming there were a couple of percent assaulted each year.  It also counts victims, not perpetrators, so unless we know the ratio of perpetrators to victims we don't know what percentage of the population have committed these offences.

 

The figures in the Daily Mail refer to sitting MPs, so unlike the ONS report it presumably includes the full record of the MPs, not just 2022.  But also the figures exclude something and include something else, making comparison with the ONS data impossible. The exclusion is because it only includes people who are current MPs, so it misses any sexual misconduct by former MPs.  The inclusion is because it includes all misconduct, whether criminal or not, including sexual harassment that wouldn't be regarded as criminal in the ONS report.

 

Sorry for going on.  None of this means you'd be wrong to say MPs are more likely than the rest of us to commit sex offences.  It's just that the figures in the two reports don't tell us that, because they're counting different things and aren't directly comparable.

Yes, you're correct. However,  there is this https://fullfact.org/online/sex-offenders-registry/, the UK has a population of about 67,000,000, so about 1.2%.

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 hours ago, I P Knightley said:

A bit Fred & Rosemary?

Or rosemary and Thyme ? 

[Ulysses]

3 hours ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

Yes, you're correct. However,  there is this https://fullfact.org/online/sex-offenders-registry/, the UK has a population of about 67,000,000, so about 1.2%.

 

I'm going to throw three linked questions in here, and I have no idea of the answers, but they're highly relevant so they deserve to be asked.

 

Of the 50 serving MPs in the Daily Mail article, how many of those are on the sex offenders register?  If any of them aren't, why aren't they?  If any of them are, why are they still in the House?

 

If the sex offenders register is our benchmark, we need to look at the data another way.  How many current and former MPs are still alive?  How many of that number are on the register?  Or have ever been on the register.  And how does that compare to the percentage of the general population who are on the register, or who've ever been on the register.  Otherwise, we're comparing apples with oranges.

 

It has been said that MPs are more inclined to commit sexual offences than the population generally.  That might be true, but it also might not. The figures and sources you've quoted are interesting and valid, but because of those "apples and oranges" problems they don't actually tell us enough to prove the case one way or the other.

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

I'm going to throw three linked questions in here, and I have no idea of the answers, but they're highly relevant so they deserve to be asked.

 

Of the 50 serving MPs in the Daily Mail article, how many of those are on the sex offenders register?  If any of them aren't, why aren't they?  If any of them are, why are they still in the House?

 

If the sex offenders register is our benchmark, we need to look at the data another way.  How many current and former MPs are still alive?  How many of that number are on the register?  Or have ever been on the register.  And how does that compare to the percentage of the general population who are on the register, or who've ever been on the register.  Otherwise, we're comparing apples with oranges.

 

It has been said that MPs are more inclined to commit sexual offences than the population generally.  That might be true, but it also might not. The figures and sources you've quoted are interesting and valid, but because of those "apples and oranges" problems they don't actually tell us enough to prove the case one way or the other.

Usually if you are charged with a sexual offence , you’re suspended from your job until after the court case . If it goes to court . 

[Ulysses]

11 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Usually if you are charged with a sexual offence , you’re suspended from your job until after the court case . If it goes to court . 

 

I wasn't aware of that.  What implications does that have for figuring out if MPs are more likely than the general population to commit sex offences?

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

50 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

I wasn't aware of that.  What implications does that have for figuring out if MPs are more likely than the general population to commit sex offences?

 

 

I havent got  a clue. But sex offenders come from all different professions and classes. One thing which usually unites them is they are mainly  all the same sex...Male.

[Sooks]

2 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Or rosemary and Thyme ? 

There is a Thyme and a Plaice for this sort of chat

[JudyJudyJudy]

27 minutes ago, Sooks said:

There is a Thyme and a Plaice for this sort of chat

Yes in a fine dining restaurant ?

 

[Toxteth O'Grady]

What politicians do you trust?

 

They all seem like they are either self interested or dodgy.

 

i can’t see me ever voting again in a Scottish or Uk election.

[Doctor FinnBarr]

5 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Usually if you are charged with a sexual offence , you’re suspended from your job until after the court case . If it goes to court . 

 

Not saying your wrong James but I've never heard of that.

However I'd imagine that most accused would avoid work because workmates will think there is no smoke without fire and shun the accused whether guilty or not.

[JudyJudyJudy]

22 minutes ago, Doctor FinnBarr said:

 

Not saying your wrong James but I've never heard of that.

However I'd imagine that most accused would avoid work because workmates will think there is no smoke without fire and shun the accused whether guilty or not.

Sorry I should have been clearer I meant jobs which involve access to vulnerable people or children . 

[Ulysses]

1 hour ago, Doctor FinnBarr said:

 

Not saying your wrong James but I've never heard of that.

However I'd imagine that most accused would avoid work because workmates will think there is no smoke without fire and shun the accused whether guilty or not.

 

1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Sorry I should have been clearer I meant jobs which involve access to vulnerable people or children . 

 

That probably explains why the comment was news to me as well.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

12 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

I'm going to throw three linked questions in here, and I have no idea of the answers, but they're highly relevant so they deserve to be asked.

 

Of the 50 serving MPs in the Daily Mail article, how many of those are on the sex offenders register?  If any of them aren't, why aren't they?  If any of them are, why are they still in the House?

 

If the sex offenders register is our benchmark, we need to look at the data another way.  How many current and former MPs are still alive?  How many of that number are on the register?  Or have ever been on the register.  And how does that compare to the percentage of the general population who are on the register, or who've ever been on the register.  Otherwise, we're comparing apples with oranges.

 

It has been said that MPs are more inclined to commit sexual offences than the population generally.  That might be true, but it also might not. The figures and sources you've quoted are interesting and valid, but because of those "apples and oranges" problems they don't actually tell us enough to prove the case one way or the other.

I've got nothing more to offer than speculation, then.

[Japan Jambo]

On 29/03/2024 at 15:51, Cade said:

A NI man and wife, 61 and 57 (from County Down) have been arrested on historic child sex abuse charges.

 

Donaldson is 61, his wife's age is uncertain. They live in Country Down.

 

Diane Abbot’s favourite quiz program…

[Japan Jambo]

On 30/03/2024 at 00:39, Nucky Thompson said:

Stop it, you're making a tit of yourself FFS 

any particular reason why today should be any different?

[Japan Jambo]

14 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

I'm going to throw three linked questions in here, and I have no idea of the answers, but they're highly relevant so they deserve to be asked.

 

Of the 50 serving MPs in the Daily Mail article, how many of those are on the sex offenders register?  If any of them aren't, why aren't they?  If any of them are, why are they still in the House?

 

If the sex offenders register is our benchmark, we need to look at the data another way.  How many current and former MPs are still alive?  How many of that number are on the register?  Or have ever been on the register.  And how does that compare to the percentage of the general population who are on the register, or who've ever been on the register.  Otherwise, we're comparing apples with oranges.

 

It has been said that MPs are more inclined to commit sexual offences than the population generally.  That might be true, but it also might not. The figures and sources you've quoted are interesting and valid, but because of those "apples and oranges" problems they don't actually tell us enough to prove the case one way or the other.

are offences more likely to be committed by someone that has a perceived position of power, be that teacher, coach, MP….?

[Ulysses]

29 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

are offences more likely to be committed by someone that has a perceived position of power, be that teacher, coach, MP….?

 

That makes sense, especially if the person in a perceived position of power also has the kind of access and opportunity that would allow offences to be committed.  But the question in the case of MPs is are they, or are they not?  Because MPs are so high profile, and because there's a manageable number if them to count, you'd imagine it would be a relatively straightforward matter to say what number or percentage of them have ever been convicted or cautioned for criminal sexual offences, and compare that to the general population. But I can't recall anyone ever doing that.  Of course, that comparison won't help when it comes to people (MPs or the rest of us) who have committed offences and not been caught, but at least it would give some reliable comparison.

 

I'm not making an argument in defence of politicians as a group here, and I'm definitely not claiming that they're less likely than mere mortals to be guilty of sexual misconduct.  I am making an argument for not making unfounded and damaging claims about groups of people.  We should be careful before labelling any group of people unfairly as being predatory sex offenders, or predatory child sex offenders, without evidence that they actually are.

[Cade]

The ratio of reported sex crimes to charges being pressed is depressingly small.

Then the actual conviction rate of those charged is also pretty bad.

So you can't just use the sex offenders register as a measure of how many beasts there are, because only a tiny number of beasts end up having to sign it.

 

MPs, clergy, corporate managers et al are in positions of power which gives them more opportunity to commit those crimes than the general population.

But they're also under more scrutiny so those crimes get discovered and reported at a higher rate than the general population too.

 

Sexual assault and rape are rife throughout UK society.

 

[Ulysses]

20 minutes ago, Cade said:

The ratio of reported sex crimes to charges being pressed is depressingly small.

Then the actual conviction rate of those charged is also pretty bad.

So you can't just use the sex offenders register as a measure of how many beasts there are, because only a tiny number of beasts end up having to sign it.

 

MPs, clergy, corporate managers et al are in positions of power which gives them more opportunity to commit those crimes than the general population.

But they're also under more scrutiny so those crimes get discovered and reported at a higher rate than the general population too.

 

Sexual assault and rape are rife throughout UK society.

 

 

All true, and it's not just UK society. 

[SwindonJambo]

5 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

All true, and it's not just UK society. 

Correct. It's naive/prejudiced to believe otherwise. It's Worldwide and probably has been since the dawn of time. 

 

 

[Sooks]

5 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

Correct. It's naive/prejudiced to believe otherwise. It's Worldwide and probably has been since the dawn of time. 

 

 

A big problem with convictions against these creatures at even the lowest level of hierarchy in the population , are that the ones that have managed to create rings / networks are able to help each other out and keep the secrecy going . Now if a few beasts in a Scout troupe or a school or boys football club are able to do this , then what sort of lengths of protection do you think Royals , priests , MPs and rich celebrities are able to call upon to intimidate and hide their way free of exposure ? Government ministers have access and means to all sorts of people whos job it is to protect them and smear victims who speak out

 

Some of the testimony from alleged victims of Ted Heath and witnesses in the police department were silenced and buried . One policeman who was investigating it was removed from an investigation by MI5 and he is to this day still adamant that he was guilty 

 

It is a totally different animal dealing with individual perpetrators and rings and the ruling classes and wealthy people in society are far more difficult to take down

 

Hopefully if this guy is guilty and the authorities are successful in prosecuting him , then any links to others that he may be networked with are exposed too , and we may get a bit of a Yew Tree effect where more paedophiles are caught . That is if he is in a ring or network of course , but his position of power could make that a distinct possibility 

[JG_1874]

Sex Crimes are totally horrifying and a subject that his horrible talking about it. 
 

Mr Donaldson & his wife’s arrest came as a bit of a shock to the Protestant Unionist Loyalist Community, the rumour mill went into overdrive, Mr Donaldson left Ulster on the 1st flight available not sure if this was on Police advice as I am sure certain organisations would and won’t tolerate such behaviour in the PUL Community, Mr Donaldson resigned with immediate effect and subsequently his membership of the Orange Order suspended pending investigation by the PSNI. 
 

The rumour mill was in overdrive about Stormont being reinstated and was this pushed on by the spooks knowing what was about to happen the whole balance of Stormont will continue until the UUP sorts itself at this moment they are scrambling around, hopefully Gavin can be quick enough to steady the party. 
 

As for the victims thoughts are with them at this very difficult and traumatic time. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

23 minutes ago, JG_1874 said:

Sex Crimes are totally horrifying and a subject that his horrible talking about it. 
 

Mr Donaldson & his wife’s arrest came as a bit of a shock to the Protestant Unionist Loyalist Community, the rumour mill went into overdrive, Mr Donaldson left Ulster on the 1st flight available not sure if this was on Police advice as I am sure certain organisations would and won’t tolerate such behaviour in the PUL Community, Mr Donaldson resigned with immediate effect and subsequently his membership of the Orange Order suspended pending investigation by the PSNI. 
 

The rumour mill was in overdrive about Stormont being reinstated and was this pushed on by the spooks knowing what was about to happen the whole balance of Stormont will continue until the UUP sorts itself at this moment they are scrambling around, hopefully Gavin can be quick enough to steady the party. 
 

As for the victims thoughts are with them at this very difficult and traumatic time. 

FYI, part of the conditions imposed were that he and his wife have no contact. That is why he's in London.

[JG_1874]

53 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

FYI, part of the conditions imposed were that he and his wife have no contact. That is why he's in London.

I’m fully aware of that….. I’m also fully aware that the PNSI gave him permission to stay in London 

[Ulysses]

1 hour ago, JG_1874 said:

 

Mr Donaldson & his wife’s arrest came as a bit of a shock to the Protestant Unionist Loyalist Community

 

WADR, do you not think the arrests came as a bit of a shock to the rest of us?

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

 

[Footballfirst]

What is Jeffrey Donaldson accused of?

He appeared at Newry Magistrates' Court on Wednesday facing 11 charges - one of rape; one of gross indecency involving a child; and nine counts of indecent assault.

The charges against his 58-year-old wife are connected to aiding and abetting his alleged offences.

[Bindy Badgy]

On 29/03/2024 at 23:04, JudyJudyJudy said:

In what way is the Catholic Church

” far right” ? 

 

Their stance on birth control and abortion puts them on the same side of the fence as the American right. I have no comment on whether that qualifies as 'far right'.

[Ulysses]

1 hour ago, Bindy Badgy said:

 

Their stance on birth control and abortion puts them on the same side of the fence as the American right. I have no comment on whether that qualifies as 'far right'.

 

It certainly qualifies them as full-on leaders of the patriarchy.

 

Of course, as religions go they're not alone in that.