Offsides

[Ex member of the SaS]

When the linesman sees an off side he doesn't do anything until either a goal is scored or the game stops. So frustrating for fans at the game and watching on TV as you never can tell if he is going to flag or not! So a suggestion, when he see ( what he thinks is an off side ) he points his flag straight out or even point it towards the stand( away from the pitch ) and then raises it in the normal way at a goal or break in play. That way fans can see what he is going to give. VaR can still check and agree or not as the case may be. Players would need to understand they have to play to the whistle which is common sense anyway.

[Mikey1874]

More frustrating is offsides ignored which then lead to a goal in next phase of play.

 

Celtic scored one of these at Tynecastle last season. Celtic player clearly offside as ball played through. Hearts player clears. Celtic score from next attack.

[tian447]

5 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

When the linesman sees an off side he doesn't do anything until either a goal is scored or the game stops. So frustrating for fans at the game and watching on TV as you never can tell if he is going to flag or not! So a suggestion, when he see ( what he thinks is an off side ) he points his flag straight out or even point it towards the stand( away from the pitch ) and then raises it in the normal way at a goal or break in play. That way fans can see what he is going to give. VaR can still check and agree or not as the case may be. Players would need to understand they have to play to the whistle which is common sense anyway.

 

Moving the flag at all is distracting and the point of letting play go on is to give the benefit of the doubt that it might not be offside and to let the passage of play pan out naturally (i.e. player through on goal doesn't stop).   Anything they do would potentially influence the game so they don't until the ball is dead.

 

It's not that much of an annoyance, and you know fine well it's going to be checked regardless of the linesman putting their flag up so the flag being up or down literally doesn't matter.  A linesman might judge it to be onside and it turns out to be offside on VAR review, in which case no flag has gone up at all.  Where the problem comes from is the massively obvious offsides, such as the one in a Celtic game the other week that they used VAR to determine the boy was about 15 yards offside.  That sort of thing shouldn't happen but it's almost like they are scared to make the decisions themselves.

 

In reality, the flag should go up fairly quickly (within a handful of seconds) as soon as the passage of play stops, such as a player having a pop at goal, or the ball going out of play.  It's getting to the point where the linesman is effectively redundant with VAR. They don't flag marginal offsides in case it turns out to be onside and they've ruined the passage of play, and VAR will let you know either way anyway.

 

It beats the **** out of the days where Celtic and Rangers would get away with blatantly offside goals every week.  I can think of at least 3 from recent-ish years that still make my blood boil.

[Jack Torrance]

I think the officials making any kind of signal could unnecessarily confuse things for the players. Imagine someone decides not to defend because they saw a flag, but then VAR rule it wasn't offside and a goal stood. You'd then be debating how clearly a flag was raised and at what angle.

 

 

It's really up to the viewers to get used to the new way. It's a culture change. Couple of times last night that it was offside but played on until being pulled back. People just need to chill when they're watching.

Edited February 29 by Jack Torrance

[Lone Striker]

8 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

More frustrating is offsides ignored which then lead to a goal in next phase of play.

 

Celtic scored one of these at Tynecastle last season. Celtic player clearly offside as ball played through. Hearts player clears. Celtic score from next attack.

Thats what VAR is supposed to check "honestly" - fouls/offsides leading up to the goal.     What constitutes the "next" phase of play is unclear though.  Is it  after any touch by the defending team ?   Is it a certain amount of time ?  Who knows.   

Anyway, it was Celtic  so that clears it up. 

 

 

[Ex member of the SaS]

1 minute ago, Jack Torrance said:

I think the officials making any kind of signal could unnecessarily confuse things for the players. Imagine someone decides not to defend because they saw a flag, but then VAR rule it wasn't offside and a goal stood. You'd then be debating how clearly a flag was raised and at what angle.

 

 

It's really up to the viewers to get used to the new way. It's a culture change. Couple of times last night that it was offside but played on until being pulled back. People just need to chill when they're watching.

As I said they should be playing to the whistle anyway.

[kila]

20 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

More frustrating is offsides ignored which then lead to a goal in next phase of play.

 

Celtic scored one of these at Tynecastle last season. Celtic player clearly offside as ball played through. Hearts player clears. Celtic score from next attack.

 

Did Celtic not once get a corner from offside play and score from that too?

 

 

[Jack Torrance]

22 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

As I said they should be playing to the whistle anyway.

They already are, but you're suggesting adding in another layer that could add to confusion for a player. And this is to pander to someone watching. Whilst the paying public are important to a club, it isn't really crucial for them to be notified in advance of a possible offside.

 

That said, I've no probs with anything being tried out to improve the game. Just not sure this would make things better. 

 

Maybe a direct feed to the ref's audio who could tell us. Like in the rugby soccer.

 

One day we'll all have neural implants anyway, and get a notification instantly from the ref 😄

[kingantti1874]

You are correct, they don’t flag until play stops, the problem is that if the ball is recycled and goes to a second third phase teams are retaining the ball.  Absolutely nuts 

[Ex member of the SaS]

42 minutes ago, Jack Torrance said:

They already are, but you're suggesting adding in another layer that could add to confusion for a player. And this is to pander to someone watching. Whilst the paying public are important to a club, it isn't really crucial for them to be notified in advance of a possible offside.

 

That said, I've no probs with anything being tried out to improve the game. Just not sure this would make things better. 

 

Maybe a direct feed to the ref's audio who could tell us. Like in the rugby soccer.

 

One day we'll all have neural implants anyway, and get a notification instantly from the ref 😄

I know football players in general are not rocket scientists but surely they can adapt to a simple change. Besides I was making a suggestion to stimulate debate and possibly get other options from the board. Not suggesting it was the only option and had hoped for possibly something better. 

Thankfully I will be long gone before Musk sticks anything in my skull.😜

[Ferryjambo99]

They tried having the linesman flag but continue play in England for thr first couple years of VAR. It was a shambles. Defenders naturally stopped when the play was flagged and you had a couple of situations where defenders stopped and keepers stopped and you ended up with goals being given. 

 

The assistants are getting better at only delaying the flag when absolutely necessary imo

[Chillidigits]

Just waiting for a really serious injury when play carries on despite an obvious offside scenario. Review of the rules after that perhaps.

[King Of The Cat Cafe]

18 minutes ago, Chillidigits said:

Just waiting for a really serious injury when play carries on despite an obvious offside scenario. Review of the rules after that perhaps.

This, in spades.

And who carries the can if it is a career-ending injury to a young player who might have earned millions otherwise?

[noskillson]

assistant referee observes play  and if he sees an offside offence he raises his flag straight up and then to indicate the position of the offence will  hold flag at 11.00oclock for far side of pitch; at 9oclock for central and  7.00oclock for near side.

there is a difference between someone in an offside position and a player committing an offside offence. the flag should be raised only at the time of an offence

I suppose I could have pasted that from FIFA rules

[CostaJambo]

4 hours ago, Chillidigits said:

Just waiting for a really serious injury when play carries on despite an obvious offside scenario. Review of the rules after that perhaps.

Totally. First player who gets a career-ending injury from a continued play after a clear offside will be suing FIFA/UEFA or whoever for a fortune, as will his club.

[boag1874]

Not putting the flag up early doesn’t bother me, it would cause confusion and distraction even if playing to the whistle imo. If they’re flagging but the play carries on anyway then I don’t see what the point would be.

[XB52]

6 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

You are correct, they don’t flag until play stops, the problem is that if the ball is recycled and goes to a second third phase teams are retaining the ball.  Absolutely nuts 

That's not true. They flag when the attack is over, not when play stops.

[mscjambo]

Hate the rule. Literally no point in the lino these days. Flag for absolutely nothing and var does the work. You'd be as well not having them 

[Bozi]

13 hours ago, Chillidigits said:

Just waiting for a really serious injury when play carries on despite an obvious offside scenario. Review of the rules after that perhaps.

 

The obvious example of Ryan McGowan wiping out Vargas in the St Johnstone game. 

Vargas was marginally offside but play went on, he bore down on goal and was looking likely to score, McGowan wiped him out. It goes to VAR to review, if he's onside it's a clear red but he's offside, however it was fine and just a yellow because Vargas was offside.

Now if the flag goes up, McGowan doesn't need to make the challenge, doesn't unceremoniously wipe out Vargas, doesn't get a card (which given how cynical it is absolutely should still have been a red) 

 

Now where would we be if that challenge, cynical, dangerous and unnecessary had ended with Vargas being stretchered off? All because a linesman doesn't put his flag up and instead relies on VAR 

[EH11 2NL]

Just one of those things that needs to happen if we want the correct offside calls made. VAR gets a hard time, but before VAR almost every game against us, Celtic seemed to get clear offside decisions in their favour. 

[Marvin]

Does anyone actually know what the offside rule is these days? Clear as day our officials don't. 

[chubby1973]

53 minutes ago, Marvin said:

Does anyone actually know what the offside rule is these days? Clear as day our officials don't. 

I know in years gone by it was always whatever rangers and celtic players or willie miller said to the ref it was.

Now, i just think it's the same, but without willie miller or penalty to rangers🤷🏼

[4marsbars]

20 hours ago, Jack Torrance said:

I think the officials making any kind of signal could unnecessarily confuse things for the players. Imagine someone decides not to defend because they saw a flag, but then VAR rule it wasn't offside and a goal stood. You'd then be debating how clearly a flag was raised and at what angle.

 

 

It's really up to the viewers to get used to the new way. It's a culture change. Couple of times last night that it was offside but played on until being pulled back. People just need to chill when they're watching.

 

I agree with this. I think I've got used to it by now. The flag stays down until a goal is scored or something else that would justify a stoppage.

 

I think, on the whole, that VAR has been an improvement, however irritating at times.

 

[Ex member of the SaS]

This is what I wanted from the thread, debate without the usual name calling posters, posting. I kinda hoped someone would come up with other options for discussion, as I am sure others have thought this through and have ideas worth debating. Carry on guys and well done.