Playing Celtic v Playing Rangers

[RudiSkacelsLeftPeg]

6 hours ago, Benny Klack said:

This is absolute nonsense 

Total agree. 
 

Some of the shite being posted just now is mental. More mental than normal.

[Wee Mikey]

38 minutes ago, By The Light.. said:

you no wanting another hampden party against the wee team?

 

The sooner they're out the better.

 

Anyhoo, the chance of h1b5 besting The Rangers given the current form of each team?

 

None.

 

I'll settle for this coming Wed as our opportunity to make the lives of our green & white neighbours even more pitiful than it has been for a long, long time.

[Hearts1975]

13 hours ago, Sir PH said:

They have a bigger budget and better players, so apparently it's perfectly acceptable to get gubbed 5-0. 

No one's saying its acceptable, but do Livi supporters, go into meltdown, every time we beat them ?, or do Killie supporters seethe, every time we beat them ?

 

The problem is that we now EXPECT to perform through in Glasgow, and unfortunately, when either of the OF turn it on, and we don't have every single player hitting an A+ on the park, we are toast.

 

And some folk can't handle the thought of that being the case. That's the hard and fast reality. 

 

You only need to look at our performance in Glasgow for the last 50 years to realise that in modern times, nothing has really changed. The only thing that's changed is the expectations of some of the support. 

 

Rangers can f...... do one, but let's keep it real as well. Clement has lost one game in charge, one game, since he arrived. They are still playing in Europe. This is sticking in my throat but they are a right good side and they probably played the best they have played, and all season, against us the other day. They wanted to lay down a marker against us, the up and coming threat to their duopoly, and they did what they had to do.

 

Even their manager inferred that they had played the best football, since he arrived.  It's unfortunate, it's sickening but it is what it is. We need to look forward and recognise what we need to do on the park, and what got us in the position we are in now.

[Sir PH]

11 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

No one's saying its acceptable, but do Livi supporters, go into meltdown, every time we beat them ?, or do Killie supporters seethe, every time we beat them ?

 

The problem is that we now EXPECT to perform through in Glasgow, and unfortunately, when either of the OF turn it on, and we don't have every single player hitting an A+ on the park, we are toast.

 

And some folk can't handle the thought of that being the case. That's the hard and fast reality. 

 

You only need to look at our performance in Glasgow for the last 50 years to realise that in modern times, nothing has really changed. The only thing that's changed is the expectations of some of the support. 

 

Rangers can f...... do one, but let's keep it real as well. Clement has lost one game in charge, one game, since he arrived. They are still playing in Europe. This is sticking in my throat but they are a right good side and they probably played the best they have played, and all season, against us the other day. They wanted to lay down a marker against us, the up and coming threat to their duopoly, and they did what they had to do.

 

Even their manager inferred that they had played the best football, since he arrived.  It's unfortunate, it's sickening but it is what it is. We need to look forward and recognise what we need to do on the park, and what got us in the position we are in now.

Sorry, but that's exactly what they're saying. 

 

"Rangers have a bigger budget and better players, so these results are to be expected"

 

And yes, if we were to be beating Killie 9 times out of 10, with a few 5-0 hammerings thrown in, their fans would be seething. Unfortunately, our record against Killie is pretty grim.

Edited February 25 by Sir PH

[Hearts1975]

14 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

Sorry, but that's exactly what they're saying. 

 

"Rangers have a bigger budget and better players, so these results are to be expected"

 

And yes, if we were to be beating Killie 9 times out of 10, with a few 5-0 hammerings thrown in, their fans would be seething. Unfortunately, our record against Killie is pretty grim.

The difference between a 5 grand a week player and a 20 grand a week player is night and day. 

 

The difference between a 2 grand a week player and a 5 grand a week player, not so much so. 

 

If we are going to base it on apple's Vs apples then we need to take this into account if we use reflective budgets to make the comparison point, that you did, and in your last paragraph. 

 

I think what folk are saying is that we didn't bring our A game, too many individual errors happened, and when you go through there, it's a recipe for disaster. For those saying that it's acceptable and for it to be expected, they are probably basing it on the last 50 years.

 

We are probably experiencing some better performances through there, compared to the last 50 years, withstanding the other day, and it has most probably caused some disproportionate views amongst the support. Not with everyone, but most definetely with some. 

Edited February 25 by Hearts1975

[jambobas]

I've felt that over the last few years,Sevco have moved the ball quickly and accurately through midfield amd out to the wings. This almost always causes us problems, because, a) our midfield is slow and ponderous, and b) are full backs are defensively poor.

 

Our midfield is usually so slow, that they're several yards behind the opposition when the ball is passed/crossed into our penalty box. Actually, yesterday's match was so similar to the SCF in 2022, only difference being the number the goals conceded.

 

How many times, both at Tynecastle and Ibrox, have we been caught out by a speedy attack, which started from inside, or just outside their 18 yard box?

 

Of course, Celtic can do the same thing, but Sevco seem to do it better and more often.

I know that Neilson often received a lot of criticism for defensive displays at Ibrox, but maybe we would get better results against Sevco by parking the bus, even at Tynecastle.

[Pasquale for King]

14 hours ago, spirt of 98 said:

Genuine thought. Is it all the Rangers supporters we have in the team not trying as hard against their team. Then being right up for tanning Celtic. We will never know! 

It certainly looks like that. 

[Pasquale for King]

20 minutes ago, jambobas said:

I've felt that over the last few years,Sevco have moved the ball quickly and accurately through midfield amd out to the wings. This almost always causes us problems, because, a) our midfield is slow and ponderous, and b) are full backs are defensively poor.

 

Our midfield is usually so slow, that they're several yards behind the opposition when the ball is passed/crossed into our penalty box. Actually, yesterday's match was so similar to the SCF in 2022, only difference being the number the goals conceded.

 

How many times, both at Tynecastle and Ibrox, have we been caught out by a speedy attack, which started from inside, or just outside their 18 yard box?

 

Of course, Celtic can do the same thing, but Sevco seem to do it better and more often.

I know that Neilson often received a lot of criticism for defensive displays at Ibrox, but maybe we would get better results against Sevco by parking the bus, even at Tynecastle.

How many times has parking the bus worked? Stendel beat them twice pressing them at Tynecastle, that is the best option, even CL did that to Celtic ending their unbeaten run. 

[colinmaroon]

16 hours ago, Sir PH said:

They have a bigger budget and better players, so apparently it's perfectly acceptable to get gubbed 5-0. 

 

Please quote post that says it's acceptable. 

 

 

[Sir PH]

6 hours ago, colinmaroon said:

 

Please quote post that says it's acceptable. 

 

 

You know exactly what it means. "Been happening for years, we move on" "they've got a bigger budget and better players, these results are to be expected" 

[boag1874]

8 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

How many times has parking the bus worked? Stendel beat them twice pressing them at Tynecastle, that is the best option, even CL did that to Celtic ending their unbeaten run. 

That Rangers team was all over the shop at that time it has to be said. Not taking anything away from 2 brilliant performances by us but they were similar to Celtic at the moment, they always looked shaky and were giving it a 6/10 display much more often than usual, hadn’t won anything in years. Really it was prime time for us to play that system v them when they were already feeling the pressure of a title challenge. Most of the time Rangers just pop it right over us if we try to press high or stick it wide & get a cross in. It’s also harder at Ibrox on a bigger pitch in front of their crowd especially when they score early.

 

Above all a win v the OF is built on a good defensive display plus hitting them on the counter. Saturday we were defensively poor and got turned over, hopefully a lesson was learned, lick our wounds and go win in Midweek.

[Ricardo Quaresma]

16 hours ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Great conspiracy theory but surely our Aussies don't support the bigots? When you have to normally solid players having a bad game it shows up more, in fact it only takes one defender to have a mare and the rest get flustered trying to compensate.

 

You might be on to something there

 

10 hours ago, Sir PH said:

Sorry, but that's exactly what they're saying. 

 

"Rangers have a bigger budget and better players, so these results are to be expected"

 

And yes, if we were to be beating Killie 9 times out of 10, with a few 5-0 hammerings thrown in, their fans would be seething. Unfortunately, our record against Killie is pretty grim.

 

Not any more it's not

[Sir PH]

2 minutes ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

You might be on to something there

 

 

Not any more it's not

The stats say different. Our record against them at Tynecastle, in particular, is awful. 

[Ricardo Quaresma]

Just now, Sir PH said:

The stats say different. Our record against them at Tynecastle, in particular, is awful. 

 

Well, the encounter this season was marred by the non-application of VAR; we had 2 ridiculous penalty claims inside 1 minute

 

Anyway, you never mentioned Tynecastle and we've just beat them 3 times in a row

[Sir PH]

5 minutes ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

Well, the encounter this season was marred by the non-application of VAR; we had 2 ridiculous penalty claims inside 1 minute

 

Anyway, you never mentioned Tynecastle and we've just beat them 3 times in a row

I didn't mention Rugby Park, either. Our overall record against Kilmarnock is not great, and at Tynecastle it's awful.

[Wee Mikey]

It's kinda 50/50, so not great, but not awful, depending on outlook.

 

Edited February 26 by Wee Mikey

[Sir PH]

43 minutes ago, Wee Mikey said:

It's kinda 50/50, so not great, but not awful, depending on outlook.

 

If we're using the budget argument (and we can't just use it when we get battered from the Old Firm) I'd say that is a pretty poor record. I'm also aware that the gap between Hearts and the Old Firm is far greater than the gap between Hearts and Kilmarnock, but there's a gap, nonetheless. 

[ArcticJambo]

12 hours ago, jambobas said:

I've felt that over the last few years,Sevco have moved the ball quickly and accurately through midfield amd out to the wings. This almost always causes us problems, because, a) our midfield is slow and ponderous, and b) are full backs are defensively poor.

 

Our midfield is usually so slow, that they're several yards behind the opposition when the ball is passed/crossed into our penalty box. Actually, yesterday's match was so similar to the SCF in 2022, only difference being the number the goals conceded.

 

How many times, both at Tynecastle and Ibrox, have we been caught out by a speedy attack, which started from inside, or just outside their 18 yard box?

 

Of course, Celtic can do the same thing, but Sevco seem to do it better and more often.

I know that Neilson often received a lot of criticism for defensive displays at Ibrox, but maybe we would get better results against Sevco by parking the bus, even at Tynecastle.

 

And you, jambobas of Kickback, just put forward a simple analysis of what Rangers would probably do.

 

Yet we went with a setup and personnel that didn't seem to factor this into account. It's far easier to battle them when they're in front of us through the middle of the park, than behind us and we too are facing our goal.  We've got a notoriously poorly positioned LWB who jogs back with the winger or right midfielder tearing 5 yards+ in fronmt of him. We;ve got a RWB/RB that, well ... the position has been neglected for yrs (bless M Smith's cotton socks).  And don't get me started on the midfield but at least we've got a bit of dig there!

 

I don't think we approached the game on Sat as professionally as we should have.  I can damned well guarantee Clement did.

[Spellczech]

Rangers are very good at making triangles when they have possession so that the player with the ball has at least 2 options. This helps them get up the park really quickly and easily. They are also really good out of possession in pressing and preventing us offering options for passes. It is about shape and sharing the hard graft...

 

We tend to think it is ok to have one or two players doing all the running and closing down...Also finding space is pointless if that space is obstructed by an opposition player meaning the pass is not on...

[Diego10]

Our record against Celtic since 2010 is w6 d3 L 43

 

V Rangers it's w8 D 6 L27.

 

We're largely pish against both, but we've won nearly double the percentage of games v Rangers as Celtic.

 

 

Edited February 26 by Diego10

[Ricardo Quaresma]

9 hours ago, Sir PH said:

I didn't mention Rugby Park, either. Our overall record against Kilmarnock is not great, and at Tynecastle it's awful.

 

Last game before the aforementioned Tynecastle game was 3-1 Hearts, before that a 0-1 cup game (wee cup) that was chucked in favour of European games and injuries

 

When we're properly manged at all, we beat them, simple as that

 

Not concerned about them

[Sir PH]

28 minutes ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

Last game before the aforementioned Tynecastle game was 3-1 Hearts, before that a 0-1 cup game (wee cup) that was chucked in favour of European games and injuries

 

When we're properly manged at all, we beat them, simple as that

 

Not concerned about them

You're cherry picking results to suit your argument. "Properly managed"? So we just write off our horrific results against them because we weren't "properly managed"? 😂

[Jamhammer]

Conversely Sellick get fired up playing us and do nowt v Hibs

[No Idle Talk]

1 hour ago, Diego10 said:

Our record against Celtic since 2010 is w6 d3 L 43

 

V Rangers it's w8 D 6 L27.

 

We're largely pish against both, but we've won nearly double the percentage of games v Rangers as Celtic.

 

 

 

Those stats will be skewed somewhat by Rangers liquidation to be fair. 

[PhoenixHearts]

On 25/02/2024 at 08:09, spirt of 98 said:

Genuine thought. Is it all the Rangers supporters we have in the team not trying as hard against their team. Then being right up for tanning Celtic. We will never know! 

 

I want to say that's ****ing preposterous and no professional footballer worth his salt would ever behave in such a way but I'm genuinely at a loss as to any other explanation 😅

 

It really doesn't help the constant accusations from Celtic fans that we like to "lie down and get our bellies tickled" or whatever it is they say when we play the huns.

 

But to be fair, who did we actually hace on the pitch who is "Rangers minded"?

Shankland and Clark is all I can think.

 

Halkett and McKay the only other huns I can think of but neither played.

Forrest is presumably Celtic.

I'd imagine Tait and Denholm are both Hearts (can anyone confirm?)

Fraser is Utd through and through.

Kingsley I have no idea. My head-canon is he's a Bairn or Stenny...

Gordon is Gorgie as ****.

 

That's basically it for our Scottish contingent.

I don't think our team is as "Rangersy" as it used to be back when there was that locker room story Bobby Zlamal was talking about.

 

Anyway, I can't believe I'm actually entertaining this theory 😂

[Stupid Sexy Flanders]

22 minutes ago, PhoenixHearts said:

 

I want to say that's ****ing preposterous and no professional footballer worth his salt would ever behave in such a way but I'm genuinely at a loss as to any other explanation 😅

 

It really doesn't help the constant accusations from Celtic fans that we like to "lie down and get our bellies tickled" or whatever it is they say when we play the huns.

 

 

It's already been pointed out on this thread that our record against Rangers is slightly better than against Celtic. 

[PhoenixHearts]

38 minutes ago, Stupid Sexy Flanders said:

 

It's already been pointed out on this thread that our record against Rangers is slightly better than against Celtic. 

 

Yeah I noticed that afterwards, though for whatever reason I doesnt necessarily feel that way.

 

I suppose our Championship season had a hand intour record vs Rangers, and of course there Daniel "the Destroyer of Huns" Stendel.

[Hmfc1965]

1 hour ago, PhoenixHearts said:

 

I want to say that's ****ing preposterous and no professional footballer worth his salt would ever behave in such a way but I'm genuinely at a loss as to any other explanation 😅

 

It really doesn't help the constant accusations from Celtic fans that we like to "lie down and get our bellies tickled" or whatever it is they say when we play the huns.

 

But to be fair, who did we actually hace on the pitch who is "Rangers minded"?

Shankland and Clark is all I can think.

 

Halkett and McKay the only other huns I can think of but neither played.

Forrest is presumably Celtic.

I'd imagine Tait and Denholm are both Hearts (can anyone confirm?)

Fraser is Utd through and through.

Kingsley I have no idea. My head-canon is he's a Bairn or Stenny...

Gordon is Gorgie as ****.

 

That's basically it for our Scottish contingent.

I don't think our team is as "Rangersy" as it used to be back when there was that locker room story Bobby Zlamal was talking about.

 

Anyway, I can't believe I'm actually entertaining this theory 😂

And yet you are.

Do you really think professional football players want to be humiliated to help their boyhood team?

[Hmfc1965]

42 minutes ago, Stupid Sexy Flanders said:

 

It's already been pointed out on this thread that our record against Rangers is slightly better than against Celtic. 

These pesky facts eh?

[Sir PH]

1 hour ago, PhoenixHearts said:

 

I want to say that's ****ing preposterous and no professional footballer worth his salt would ever behave in such a way but I'm genuinely at a loss as to any other explanation 😅

 

It really doesn't help the constant accusations from Celtic fans that we like to "lie down and get our bellies tickled" or whatever it is they say when we play the huns.

 

But to be fair, who did we actually hace on the pitch who is "Rangers minded"?

Shankland and Clark is all I can think.

 

Halkett and McKay the only other huns I can think of but neither played.

Forrest is presumably Celtic.

I'd imagine Tait and Denholm are both Hearts (can anyone confirm?)

Fraser is Utd through and through.

Kingsley I have no idea. My head-canon is he's a Bairn or Stenny...

Gordon is Gorgie as ****.

 

That's basically it for our Scottish contingent.

I don't think our team is as "Rangersy" as it used to be back when there was that locker room story Bobby Zlamal was talking about.

 

Anyway, I can't believe I'm actually entertaining this theory 😂

Forrest is Rangers, Kingsley is Celtic. Not that it matters, of course. They are both professionals, and only interested in doing their best for Hearts. 

[PhoenixHearts]

11 minutes ago, Hmfc1965 said:

And yet you are.

Do you really think professional football players want to be humiliated to help their boyhood team?

 

No actually, I don't. 

Lighten the **** up mate, I was just having fun with a really daft debate.

[Spellczech]

On 25/02/2024 at 10:17, Bazzas right boot said:

I think it's more simpler. 

 

 

If you start shite and  chuck early goals in you can get gubbed by either.

Celtic beat us 4-1 at Tynecastle earlier, you have to start well by staying solid and not conceding early, at Ibrox yesterday we conceded early and folded.

All about the defence and frustrating them.

 

We ****ed it.

 

There is a lot of truth in this. Early goal conceded and that is basically the game plan out the window after a few minutes...

 

In days of old we used to have proper leaders on the park who could pull the team together and go Plan B but I don't think we've really had a proper captain since Elvis!...

[AC Mallin_51]

Actually sick of the pair of them. You know what would help with competing against them? Playing them less. Playing 8/38 games against that lot a season is a nightmare. No one will ever ever get close to them as long as that’s the case. Look at the run we put together playing the other sides in the league, with only 12 instead of 24 points at stake against that lot would give another team a chance of closing the gap. Everything is rigged to suit them though, we need the four old firm games to get our pathetic TV deal. You actually think the pair of them would want to show a bit of ambition instead of just being happy dominating Scottish football. You think they’d be eager for a better, more attractive deal, the size of clubs they are they surely want to be doing well in the champions league. When was the last time Celtic were even in Europe by Christmas? I pin so much blame on them, they are happy just to plod along the way everything is, greet if anyone upsets them and the folk running our game are happy to just keep it that way. The greatest thing that could happen to Scottish football is someone outwith them 2 win the league but every parameter is put in place to ensure that never happens 

[Ricardo Quaresma]

7 hours ago, Sir PH said:

You're cherry picking results to suit your argument. "Properly managed"? So we just write off our horrific results against them because we weren't "properly managed"? 😂

 

When was the last time they won outside that wee cup game? The time Robbie was persisting with bad tactics and personnel?

 

Properly managed, they're pumped; give an example that flies in the face of that statement?

 

The record is irrelevant and purely historical

 

-

Edited February 27 by Ricardo Quaresma

[Watt-Zeefuik]

1 hour ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

When was the last time they won outside that wee cup game? The time Robbie was persisting with bad tactics and personnel?

 

Properly managed, they're pumped; give an example that flies in the face of that statement?

 

The record is irrelevant and purely historical

 

-

 

Got me curious so I went looking. We did draw at home with them to start the season.

 

They went down when we came up so Neilson's only games in his second spell were last season. 1W1D2L with the losses being the wee cup match and the loss at Rugby park in the middle of our collapse.

 

Stendel lost twice to them during the demotion season by an aggregate 0-4. FFS.

 

Before that they really were a bogey team for Levein. Daly won right after Cathro got sacked then Levein went 1D2L his first season back on the touchline, 2W2L the next season, then lost to them before getting sacked. So 2W1D5L under him, sheesh.

 

Before that, Robbie only lost once to them in his first go-round, ironically right before he left for MK, total of 2W2D1L.

Edited February 27 by Watt-Zeefuik

[Sir PH]

3 hours ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

When was the last time they won outside that wee cup game? The time Robbie was persisting with bad tactics and personnel?

 

Properly managed, they're pumped; give an example that flies in the face of that statement?

 

The record is irrelevant and purely historical

 

-

Great. I'm now writing off every bad result we've ever had because we weren't "properly managed".😂 We now have a 100% win record against the Old Firm.

[Ricardo Quaresma]

Uhuh