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Marc Leonard


bigdav

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Left us in 2018 to join Brighton,played the last two seasons on loan to Northampton,prob on a good wedge but well under the radar now. Would he have been better served staying with us like Tait and getting first team football or did he not like the manager in charge at the time.

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2 minutes ago, bigdav said:

Left us in 2018 to join Brighton,played the last two seasons on loan to Northampton,prob on a good wedge but well under the radar now. Would he have been better served staying with us like Tait and getting first team football or did he not like the manager in charge at the time.


Possibly but the two that did stay never fulfilled their early promise

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Mikey1874

Tricky one. To make the best decision.

 

Ironically had a chance of getting in the team after he told Hearts he was leaving as we had a major injury crisis. Even could have been our youngest ever player. 

 

But as said he's doing at least as well if not better than the others. 

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Mr Rabbit
4 minutes ago, indianajones said:

Think his father has a lot to do with it from memory. 

Yup, was the same time as Cochrane and McDonald and said he should be getting first team football.

 

I’ve never really understood the appeal for young kids breaking through to join the rat race of premier league development teams. Very few Scottish youngsters, if any, have come through them and most seem to then drop down the leagues.

 

The Scottish players who have done well in the premier league have all worked their way up in Scotland first before earning their move.

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20 minutes ago, Mr Rabbit said:

Yup, was the same time as Cochrane and McDonald and said he should be getting first team football.

 

I’ve never really understood the appeal for young kids breaking through to join the rat race of premier league development teams. Very few Scottish youngsters, if any, have come through them and most seem to then drop down the leagues.

 

The Scottish players who have done well in the premier league have all worked their way up in Scotland first before earning their move.

It’s called arrogance. Nothing wrong with believing in yourself and having drive. However, once you start believing in your potential you’re on a very slippery slope. All brilliant players have practiced and grafted, not taken it for granted. 

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kingantti1874
28 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Was badly advised by his own father.


agreed. However the one thing I will say, not many better clubs than Brighton to learn your trade.  Got to be able to do it though

Edited by kingantti1874
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31 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Was badly advised by his own father.

 

The boys still belongs to Brighton so that remains to be seen.

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fabienleclerq

All what ifs and buts. You can't say he was badly advised,  he might never of played at Hearts. 

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So hard to tell. 

 

The management at the time weren't the best. 

 

Remember josh doig was released too

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2 minutes ago, mscjambo said:

So hard to tell. 

 

The management at the time weren't the best. 

 

Remember josh doig was released too

Hearts decided Hickey was the better player, which has been proved right.  He was given the opportunity to play in a different position, he chose to leave and the rest is history.  

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kingantti1874
1 minute ago, goader said:

Hearts decided Hickey was the better player, which has been proved right.  He was given the opportunity to play in a different position, he chose to leave and the rest is history.  


so good we barely kept him for a season, so good he could play about 5 positions. There was room for both.  It was a moronic decision by levein. 

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Finlay James

I’ve watched him at a few Cobblers matches and for me, he’s found his level.  I’ll be amazed if he makes it at Brighton or similar level.

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john thomas
21 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

All what ifs and buts. You can't say he was badly advised,  he might never of played at Hearts. 

Was it not the case that he was underage ?

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Cameronstheman

Brighton went into the EPL around 2016 and have been consistent .Mark would have to been exceptional and then some to get into the team over the yrs 

 

Though he will have an excellent  CV and no doubt have a decent career in football Re what pans out 

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Glamorgan Jambo

Reading this and knowing a few Cobblers fans who like but don't particulary rave about him isn't it amazing just how right Aaron Hickey's father has been in developing his son's career. Constant and ruthless focus on first team football and turning down moves that wouldn't have got him that. He's on the brink of a transfer to a really big club now. Whereas Marc who..

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Madjambo21

Wish the kid all the best.

Hard to follow your dreams and make a go of it.

Would have been nice if he made it through our academy but he was probably offered crazy money down south.

 

 

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1 hour ago, goader said:

Hearts decided Hickey was the better player, which has been proved right.  He was given the opportunity to play in a different position, he chose to leave and the rest is history.  

We could have had Doig & Hickey play together tbf, Hickey’s very comfortable on the right side as well.
 

At the time though we had Michael Smith in his best form in that position so the pathway wasn’t as straightforward as it was to left back. In another timeline where someone came in & bought Smith that summer then maybe we make a call to play Hickey on the right side & see them both come through on opposite flanks.
 

Still, it’s all ifs & buts, as you say Doig felt his path was blocked by Hickey & wanted to play as a left back, so he left for opportunities at our neighbours. Can’t grudge him for doing whats best for himself, can’t complain at Heart’s decision to have Hickey ahead of him. These things happen.

Edited by boag1874
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Footballfirst
44 minutes ago, john thomas said:

Was it not the case that he was underage ?

That was a factor, in that his advisors thought he should be training with the first team when Harry Cochrane got his first team debut.  However, Marc was still only 15 at the time (b. 19/12/2002) and wasn't eligible to play first team football.

 

Once Levein became aware of his desire to leave, he was effectively frozen out.

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jamboy1982

Goes to show how picking the right club is so important. Hickey could’ve went to Bayern and if did he might be sitting playing for their b team like the other two Scottish guys they have. He chose well tho and went to a team that would give him a game for the first team. Also got lucky as the normal left back got injured. Sometimes the biggest team isn’t the best choice for young players. 

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davemclaren

Financially it will have very likely been a good move for him.  His career could still take off in terms of regular playing...but perhaps not at Brighton.  

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17 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

That was a factor, in that his advisors thought he should be training with the first team when Harry Cochrane got his first team debut.  However, Marc was still only 15 at the time (b. 19/12/2002) and wasn't eligible to play first team football.

 

Once Levein became aware of his desire to leave, he was effectively frozen out.

If a 15 year old announces they want to leave the club is quite right to not waste time on their development and concentrate more on a youngster that wants to stay. 

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John Findlay
4 minutes ago, Tazio said:

If a 15 year old announces they want to leave the club is quite right to not waste time on their development and concentrate more on a youngster that wants to stay. 

Correct.

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Footballfirst
30 minutes ago, boag1874 said:

We could have had Doig & Hickey play together tbf, Hickey’s very comfortable on the right side as well.
 

At the time though we had Michael Smith in his best form in that position so the pathway wasn’t as straightforward as it was to left back. In another timeline where someone came in & bought Smith that summer then maybe we make a call to play Hickey on the right side & see them both come through on opposite flanks.
 

Still, it’s all ifs & buts, as you say Doig felt his path was blocked by Hickey & wanted to play as a left back, so he left for opportunities at our neighbours. Can’t grudge him for doing whats best for himself, can’t complain at Heart’s decision to have Hickey ahead of him. These things happen.

A month or two back, I helped one of the Academy staff with a little project to map out where players had gone after leaving Hearts.  It was partly to help the Academy set expectations for parents and the kids, both when coming into the club and their chances of success, but also to illustrate that many who left the academy had continued to play football at a decent full time or part time level. 

 

We looked at around 350 players born between 1990 and 2005 who had spent at least a year at the Academy and the highest levels they achieved after leaving Hearts. 

3 (0.9%) had made it to the Big 5 leagues - Liam Henderson, Josh Doig and Aaron Hickey

33 (9.4%) had played at least 20 games at Tier 1 in Scotland, of which 24 (6.9%) did so at Hearts 

60 (17.1%) had played in Tiers 2-4.

38 (10.9%) had played at Tier 5.

71 (20.3%) played at Tiers 6+

 

In total 241 (68.9%) had continued playing adult football after leaving Hearts.

 

In recent years almost a third of Academy recruits ended up getting a full time contract at Hearts at 16/17.  That is mainly due to CAS now going up to U18 and the existence of a B Team.  

 

Edited by Footballfirst
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The Tackle
15 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

A month or two back, I helped one of the Academy staff with a little project to map out where players had gone after leaving Hearts.  It was partly to help the Academy set expectations for parents and the kids, both when coming into the club and their chances of success, but also to illustrate that many who left the academy had continued to play football at a decent full time or part time level. 

 

We looked at around 350 players born between 1990 and 2005 who had spent at least a year at the Academy and the highest levels they achieved after leaving Hearts. 

3 (0.9%) had made it to the Big 5 leagues - Liam Henderson, Josh Doig and Aaron Hickey

33 (9.4%) had played at least 20 games at Tier 1 in Scotland, of which 24 (6.9%) did so at Hearts 

60 (17.1%) had played in Tiers 2-4.

38 (10.9%) had played at Tier 5.

71 (20.3%) played at Tiers 6+

 

In total 241 (68.9%) had continued playing adult football after leaving Hearts.

 

In recent years almost a third of Academy recruits ended up getting a full time contract at Hearts at 16/17.  That is mainly due to CAS now going up to U18 and the existence of a B Team.  

 

Really interesting stats

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jamboinglasgow

You cant really say if the move paid off or not at the moment. He certainly is rated down south and there were a few Championship clubs interested in taking him on loan in January but never materialised. He is also only 22 so plenty time. I dont think he will get first team Brighton football, but I can see him having a decent career in England and playing in the Championship.

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Bob Loblaw
5 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

A month or two back, I helped one of the Academy staff with a little project to map out where players had gone after leaving Hearts.  It was partly to help the Academy set expectations for parents and the kids, both when coming into the club and their chances of success, but also to illustrate that many who left the academy had continued to play football at a decent full time or part time level. 

 

We looked at around 350 players born between 1990 and 2005 who had spent at least a year at the Academy and the highest levels they achieved after leaving Hearts. 

3 (0.9%) had made it to the Big 5 leagues - Liam Henderson, Josh Doig and Aaron Hickey 

 

Interesting stuff.

 

is that LiamHenderson  as in ex-Hibs Liam Henderson? I never knew he was on our books at any point.

Edited by Bob Loblaw
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Footballfirst
31 minutes ago, Bob Loblaw said:

Interesting stuff.

 

is that LiamHenderson  as in ex-Hibs Liam Henderson? I never knew he was on our books at any point.

Yes. He had a couple of seasons at Hearts and left at 12/13 to join Celtic.  He was subsequently loaned to Rosenborg and Hibs before being transferred to Bari. He's currently with Empoli, but on loan to Palermo.

 

Edit: others who were at the Academy but few will have knowledge of are Danny Galbraith, Greg Stewart, Ali Crawford, Mikey Devlin and David Gray. Even Darren Fletcher played a few games as a trialist. 

Edited by Footballfirst
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35 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Yes. He had a couple of seasons at Hearts and left at 12/13 to join Celtic.  He was subsequently loaned to Rosenborg and Hibs before being transferred to Bari. He's currently with Empoli, but on loan to Palermo.

 

Edit: others who were at the Academy but few will have knowledge of are Danny Galbraith, Greg Stewart, Ali Crawford, Mikey Devlin and David Gray. Even Darren Fletcher played a few games as a trialist. 

 

And Shankland :508:

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RustyRightPeg
19 hours ago, jamboinglasgow said:

You cant really say if the move paid off or not at the moment. He certainly is rated down south and there were a few Championship clubs interested in taking him on loan in January but never materialised. He is also only 22 so plenty time. I dont think he will get first team Brighton football, but I can see him having a decent career in England and playing in the Championship.

 

Linked with Pompey now. 

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Nookie Bear
22 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

A month or two back, I helped one of the Academy staff with a little project to map out where players had gone after leaving Hearts.  It was partly to help the Academy set expectations for parents and the kids, both when coming into the club and their chances of success, but also to illustrate that many who left the academy had continued to play football at a decent full time or part time level. 

 

We looked at around 350 players born between 1990 and 2005 who had spent at least a year at the Academy and the highest levels they achieved after leaving Hearts. 

3 (0.9%) had made it to the Big 5 leagues - Liam Henderson, Josh Doig and Aaron Hickey

33 (9.4%) had played at least 20 games at Tier 1 in Scotland, of which 24 (6.9%) did so at Hearts 

60 (17.1%) had played in Tiers 2-4.

38 (10.9%) had played at Tier 5.

71 (20.3%) played at Tiers 6+

 

In total 241 (68.9%) had continued playing adult football after leaving Hearts.

 

In recent years almost a third of Academy recruits ended up getting a full time contract at Hearts at 16/17.  That is mainly due to CAS now going up to U18 and the existence of a B Team.  

 

 

That's really interesting.

 

Shows around 7.8% of academy recruits play for our first team which is very small (although i suspect the norm)

 

I suppose as a parent you have to see the academy as a stepping stone to a career in the game, just perhaps not with Hearts.

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Footballfirst
3 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

That's really interesting.

 

Shows around 7.8% of academy recruits play for our first team which is very small (although i suspect the norm)

 

I suppose as a parent you have to see the academy as a stepping stone to a career in the game, just perhaps not with Hearts.

In addition to those who had played 20+ games for Hearts there are another 20 who played fewer than 20 games but have continued to play after leaving the club, e.g. Fraser Mullen, Chris Hamilton, Robbie Buchanan, Adam King, Paul Mulrooney, Rocky Visconte.

 

There are also 15 others in the review period who are still at Hearts (b. 2002-2005), either in the first team squad (Denholm, Tait, Pollock), out on loan (Stone, Flatman), or still playing with the B Team.

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jamboinglasgow
25 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

That's really interesting.

 

Shows around 7.8% of academy recruits play for our first team which is very small (although i suspect the norm)

 

I suppose as a parent you have to see the academy as a stepping stone to a career in the game, just perhaps not with Hearts.

 

I do wonder if the B team can be a big boost for players getting into senior football away from Hearts.

 

Obviously the hope with the B team is that players are developed into be first team players at Hearts. But obviously they wont all make it.

 

So if you are a 20 year old player who is getting let go after not quite making the grade at Hearts, in the past you could be leaving having only played youth league football (U19/U20.) You could be lucky and have had a loan where you got some games in the lower leagues. But with the ages of Hearts B players, you could easily have had 30+ senior competitive games in a tough league (admittedly 5th tier.) I think it makes you much more attractive to a lower league manager.

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CostaJambo
23 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

A month or two back, I helped one of the Academy staff with a little project to map out where players had gone after leaving Hearts.  It was partly to help the Academy set expectations for parents and the kids, both when coming into the club and their chances of success, but also to illustrate that many who left the academy had continued to play football at a decent full time or part time level. 

 

We looked at around 350 players born between 1990 and 2005 who had spent at least a year at the Academy and the highest levels they achieved after leaving Hearts. 

3 (0.9%) had made it to the Big 5 leagues - Liam Henderson, Josh Doig and Aaron Hickey

33 (9.4%) had played at least 20 games at Tier 1 in Scotland, of which 24 (6.9%) did so at Hearts 

60 (17.1%) had played in Tiers 2-4.

38 (10.9%) had played at Tier 5.

71 (20.3%) played at Tiers 6+

 

In total 241 (68.9%) had continued playing adult football after leaving Hearts.

 

In recent years almost a third of Academy recruits ended up getting a full time contract at Hearts at 16/17.  That is mainly due to CAS now going up to U18 and the existence of a B Team.  

 

Really interesting for people like me who enjoy the business side of things, thanks for sharing. I have often wondered how Hearts sell the fact that the vast majority of players who leave us NEVER play for as big a club again for the rest of their career to any half decent youngsters itching to leave before they are ready.

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comradejambo

 

23 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

A month or two back, I helped one of the Academy staff with a little project to map out where players had gone after leaving Hearts.  It was partly to help the Academy set expectations for parents and the kids, both when coming into the club and their chances of success, but also to illustrate that many who left the academy had continued to play football at a decent full time or part time level. 

 

We looked at around 350 players born between 1990 and 2005 who had spent at least a year at the Academy and the highest levels they achieved after leaving Hearts. 

3 (0.9%) had made it to the Big 5 leagues - Liam Henderson, Josh Doig and Aaron Hickey

33 (9.4%) had played at least 20 games at Tier 1 in Scotland, of which 24 (6.9%) did so at Hearts 

60 (17.1%) had played in Tiers 2-4.

38 (10.9%) had played at Tier 5.

71 (20.3%) played at Tiers 6+

 

In total 241 (68.9%) had continued playing adult football after leaving Hearts.

 

In recent years almost a third of Academy recruits ended up getting a full time contract at Hearts at 16/17.  That is mainly due to CAS now going up to U18 and the existence of a B Team.  

 


Very interesting! Thanks. Is this a cross section? (thought that Callum Paterson would be added to the “3” that made it in the top 5 leagues in that period? ) 

Edited by comradejambo
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Footballfirst
32 minutes ago, comradejambo said:

 


Very interesting! Thanks. Is this a cross section? (thought that Callum Paterson would be added to the “3” that made it in the top 5 leagues in that period? ) 

Thanks for that reminder. He played 27 games for Cardiff in the EPL and 1 FA Cup and 1 League Cup game while they were in the EPL, so it is fair to include him in the top 5 leagues group. I'll adjust my numbers accordingly.

Edited by Footballfirst
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Sub4TiddlerMurray
1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

In addition to those who had played 20+ games for Hearts there are another 20 who played fewer than 20 games but have continued to play after leaving the club, e.g. Fraser Mullen, Chris Hamilton, Robbie Buchanan, Adam King, Paul Mulrooney, Rocky Visconte.

 

There are also 15 others in the review period who are still at Hearts (b. 2002-2005), either in the first team squad (Denholm, Tait, Pollock), out on loan (Stone, Flatman), or still playing with the B Team.

 

Do you have any data on those that turned down a Hearts contract to sign down south/abroad and whether or not their gamble paid off...apart from Hickey of course 

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Footballfirst
7 minutes ago, Sub4TiddlerMurray said:

 

Do you have any data on those that turned down a Hearts contract to sign down south/abroad and whether or not their gamble paid off...apart from Hickey of course 

I'm afraid not, but there won't be many.

Off the top of my head, Ewan Simpson, Marc Leonard, Jordan McGhee, Danny Galbraith and older ones David Gray, Graeme Port, Kevin Smith

 

There are some who chose to leave and go to Celtic or Rangers. Greig Allen is the most recent one. 

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Sub4TiddlerMurray
5 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I'm afraid not, but there won't be many.

Off the top of my head, Ewan Simpson, Marc Leonard, Jordan McGhee, Danny Galbraith and older ones David Gray, Graeme Port, Kevin Smith

 

There are some who chose to leave and go to Celtic or Rangers. Greig Allen is the most recent one. 

👍

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Ben Arthur
22 hours ago, jamboinglasgow said:

You cant really say if the move paid off or not at the moment. He certainly is rated down south and there were a few Championship clubs interested in taking him on loan in January but never materialised. He is also only 22 so plenty time. I dont think he will get first team Brighton football, but I can see him having a decent career in England and playing in the Championship.

Hello, Cobblers (Northampton) fan here. Always had a soft spot for Hearts because you play in the same colours as us. There's a bit of misinformation going on here so I thought Id correct it. Leonard was very good in our promotion last season, but this year has been frankly brilliant - he'll win player of the season easily. He is probably the best pass and move footballer I've seen in 50 years of watching us but has that aggression as well. He's far too good for us. I think Brighton might loan him out again next season but he'll surely be playing premier league before too long. Most Cobblers fans now think he'll play for Scotland. His three goals in the last four games have all been top drawer sensational.  Seek them out. 

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upgotheheads
14 minutes ago, Ben Arthur said:

Hello, Cobblers (Northampton) fan here. Always had a soft spot for Hearts because you play in the same colours as us. There's a bit of misinformation going on here so I thought Id correct it. Leonard was very good in our promotion last season, but this year has been frankly brilliant - he'll win player of the season easily. He is probably the best pass and move footballer I've seen in 50 years of watching us but has that aggression as well. He's far too good for us. I think Brighton might loan him out again next season but he'll surely be playing premier league before too long. Most Cobblers fans now think he'll play for Scotland. His three goals in the last four games have all been top drawer sensational.  Seek them out. 

 

Thanks Ben. Good luck to the Cobblers and Marc.

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jamboinglasgow
1 hour ago, Ben Arthur said:

Hello, Cobblers (Northampton) fan here. Always had a soft spot for Hearts because you play in the same colours as us. There's a bit of misinformation going on here so I thought Id correct it. Leonard was very good in our promotion last season, but this year has been frankly brilliant - he'll win player of the season easily. He is probably the best pass and move footballer I've seen in 50 years of watching us but has that aggression as well. He's far too good for us. I think Brighton might loan him out again next season but he'll surely be playing premier league before too long. Most Cobblers fans now think he'll play for Scotland. His three goals in the last four games have all been top drawer sensational.  Seek them out. 

 

Thanks for that update. Was really gutted when Leonard left us aged 16 for Brighton as he looked one of our best prospects. Glad he is excelling at Northampton and looking able to make the step up after giving yourselves two great seasons. 

 

I remember last summer a football analysis account tried to see the player in English football who had the most similar stats to match Moisés Caicedo's profile for who Brighton could replace him when he left. Turned out it was Marc Leonard.

 

Good luck to yourselves for the rest of the season.

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if Marc does go on to get a big move somewhere at some point,  do we get a few grand for him training with us as a kid?  UEFA solidarity payments or something?

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On 18/02/2024 at 15:57, kingantti1874 said:


so good we barely kept him for a season, so good he could play about 5 positions. There was room for both.  It was a moronic decision by levein

Spot on.  H1b5 have made millions off that decision.

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augusthearts
On 18/02/2024 at 17:25, Footballfirst said:

A month or two back, I helped one of the Academy staff with a little project to map out where players had gone after leaving Hearts.  It was partly to help the Academy set expectations for parents and the kids, both when coming into the club and their chances of success, but also to illustrate that many who left the academy had continued to play football at a decent full time or part time level. 

 

We looked at around 350 players born between 1990 and 2005 who had spent at least a year at the Academy and the highest levels they achieved after leaving Hearts. 

3 (0.9%) had made it to the Big 5 leagues - Liam Henderson, Josh Doig and Aaron Hickey

33 (9.4%) had played at least 20 games at Tier 1 in Scotland, of which 24 (6.9%) did so at Hearts 

60 (17.1%) had played in Tiers 2-4.

38 (10.9%) had played at Tier 5.

71 (20.3%) played at Tiers 6+

 

In total 241 (68.9%) had continued playing adult football after leaving Hearts.

 

In recent years almost a third of Academy recruits ended up getting a full time contract at Hearts at 16/17.  That is mainly due to CAS now going up to U18 and the existence of a B Team.  

 

Many thanks for sharing that. Really interesting stats.

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DalryJambo

There's part of me that always thinks that one role of the academy's in Scotland run by the traditionally bigger clubs ie Hearts, Celtic, Rangers, Hibs, Aberdeen, etc is to churn out technically sound footballers for all the other leagues. It's a shame there's not more of a collective responsibility towards adopting a more technique base style right throughout the youth leagues as over time this would surely help raise the standards in Scottish football.

 

....or do people feel this is what's happening already? 

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I reckon he will end up having a better career than Cochrane and McDonald. 
 

It’s not just the money that is attractive for a young players career but it’s also opportunities. If you choose to stay at Hearts and don’t do well then you will end up in part time football before you turn 25. If you take the dangling carrot of a premier league club and don’t make it then you can still work your way down the professional ladder for a few years. 
 

Look at Joel Pereira, he’s never been good for any club he’s played for but because he got himself into man united he’ll always have a job offer. Leonard failing at Brighton doesn’t have the same consequences as failing here

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It's easy to understand a teenager wanting an opportunity to prove himself at a Premier League club and you can't blame a parent for letting their kid do it.

 

He just turned 22 and is currently starting for a midtable English League One side and is in the system of a well run EPL club that does a good job maximizing talent. That isn't bad!

 

The Marc Leonard story just tells me it is vital for Hearts to continue to invest in the Academy and to be better developing talent, which will help give young talents and their families the confidence to work through the Hearts academy. This club can't afford the quick path, so the patient path is the way.

 

I think there is some real progress in that area. The path is better now. Look at Tait and Denholm. I feel like not that long ago they've been tossed out there as 18 or 19 years and either thrived or found themselves out on frees. Today, they're brought in slowly after having opportunities to play on the B Team. And players whose clocks at Tynecastle ran out, like Connor Smith and Scott McGill, found themselves at good spots to continue their career. They're not failing down to part-time clubs.

 

James Wilson committing to Hearts shows the club can now convince young men this is the place to excel. I wish it was like this in the 2010's, but at least the progress is being made now.

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