Joe Savage and the Recruitment Team

[Bad Religion]

8 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Have been critical but I'm beginning to wonder if it was Robbie not getting the best out of the players 

The players all regressed under Neilson. Just shows what a difference having a quality coach makes. 

[GinRummy]

8 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Have been critical but I'm beginning to wonder if it was Robbie not getting the best out of the players 

Imo Robbie did not get the best out of the players. Particularly against superior sides like the old firm and some European opponents. He was still a good appointment, getting promotion and third in his first two seasons. The board got his appointment and his sacking right. 

[Rudy T]

27 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Um, anything you say is completely nullified given that you say we got relegated on his watch. We were forced into relegation at the end of the 19/20 season. Savage came in December 2020, so half way through the Championship season. To be clear, he came in AFTER we were relegated.

Savage and the recruitment team are not beyond criticism of course, but your post comes across as something else given that you’re blatantly wrong about him getting us relegated.

Ok my bad I knew he was here when we were in the championship. Still doesn’t change my view on him or make my opinion any less valid than others. His strategy and overall responsibility seems to change depending on how much flak he’s taking. Wasn’t so long ago he said himself he’d got it wrong. 
 

My opinion remains that the most telling appointment in years has been Naismith, he’s transformed the club. The mentality has changed, the players are being coached and youngsters are getting a chance and most importantly managed into the first team correctly. Neilson and Savages relationship seemed a little too cosy. Naismith knows what he wants I only hope Savage and co can meet his needs.

[Jim Panzee]

My impression is that there is a lot more thorough research done on transfer targets with the current recruitment team.

 

thinking back to Leveins time in partic it felt a bit ‘old boys network’, with the net not overly cast that wide. Recruitment based more on gut feeling.

 

the only downside to the signings doing well is the lack of bat-shit crazy musings of certain posters. I miss them 😛

 

 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

Much more focused and intentional this season imo.

We needed a ch and got one, we needed a midfielder and got one.

 

Last season recruitment was poor, Beni/ Boyce  were out for the whole season and we had guys like Kio and ofc Snodgrass, Halkett was Injured and we had guys like Sibbick and young loanees brought in, it wasn't what we needed.

 

Dhanda, if on a pre contract is also a great signing.

 

Nice shift, even Dexter is exactly what we needed.

 

[BackOfTheNet]

12 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

Much more focused and intentional this season imo.

We needed a ch and got one, we needed a midfielder and got one.

 

Last season recruitment was poor, Beni/ Boyce  were out for the whole season and we had guys like Kio and ofc Snodgrass, Halkett was Injured and we had guys like Sibbick and young loanees brought in, it wasn't what we needed.

 

Dhanda, if on a pre contract is also a great signing.

 

Nice shift, even Dexter is exactly what we needed.

 

The team last season had a 10 point lead and blew it. The squad was good enough to finish 3rd. Could have been better, yes (like any recruitment of any team can always be better), but it wasn’t the recruitment that prevented us from being 3rd because the squad was good enough.

[Bazzas right boot]

15 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

The team last season had a 10 point lead and blew it. The squad was good enough to finish 3rd. Could have been better, yes (like any recruitment of any team can always be better), but it wasn’t the recruitment that prevented us from being 3rd because the squad was good enough.

 

We were definitely good enough tk be 3rd last season but fell 2 points short after a spectacular implosion. 

 

Imo the  return of Beni and the purchase of Kent was huge for us.

 

Imo recruitment has been more targeted this season and last Season 1 massive gap at least wasn't addressed- that being a ch.

We really were vulnerable at cross balls all season.

 

 

[Victorian]

It's increasingly being played out that there have been more successes than failures.  It's a really good,  balanced and complimentary squad.  All it really needs is an improvement in Tagawa.  

[Armageddon]

I bashed big Joe, and I’m still not totally convinced!  Sorry!  For me, what’s been the difference is the coaching and development, and Naismith has drastically improved Calum and Vargas for a start off.  I believe SN will get something out of Tagawa.

 

The players that came and went through Joe and Robbie’s fingers was frightening.

 

Joe’s most important signing is Naismith on a 5 year deal.

Edited February 18 by Armageddon

[feedthefox]

8 hours ago, Weonly151 said:

I'd still like us to consider players who are either in our league or have experience playing in it. I do get it that you sometimes get better value for money abroad and players are maybe after less money. But I also think we should be going for the best players from other Scottish teams, which we have started with Dhanda. There are others which have bedn mentioned lots before. The likes of Danny Armstrong, Luke McCowan, Lyle Cameron, Allan Campbell, Greg Dochery and Jeando Fuchs to name a few. All players who would improve our starting eleven but would also be ready to play Scottish football and not need time to settle. I have no issues with experiments from abroad but maybe only 1 a season. It can go both ways, they can be a success or failure.

 

I've been banging on about Luke McCowan since he was playing with Dundee in the Championship, find it unbelievable why we've not gone for more Scottish based players in recent windows. If anything I think non OF Scottish based players are very good value and McCowan could have been bought for £200k last season or better still on a pre contract for zip with very little risk. Look at the Scottish based players we have signed in last 2/3 seasons they've practically all been a success.

[BackOfTheNet]

39 minutes ago, Armageddon said:

I bashed big Joe, and I’m still not totally convinced!  Sorry!  For me, what’s been the difference is the coaching and development, and Naismith has drastically improved Calum and Vargas for a start off.  I believe SN will get something out of Tagawa.

 

The players that came and went through Joe and Robbie’s fingers was frightening.

 

Joe’s most important signing is Naismith on a 5 year deal.

But you’ve just argued your own point. You’ve basically just said the players have it in them to have what it takes and it took good coaching to get a song out of them.

 

So the recruitment team have identified and signed the players to get us where we need to be, and contracted the coach to get that out of them. That, in a nutshell, is what you’ve said without realising it.

 

Unless you’re saying Naismith could get 3rd with Livingston’s squad, then it seems Savage has made the right appointment with Naismith and he and his recruitment team have identified the correct players for Naismith to get us there.

[Thumperbeni]

3 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

Much more focused and intentional this season imo.

We needed a ch and got one, we needed a midfielder and got one.

 

Last season recruitment was poor, Beni/ Boyce  were out for the whole season and we had guys like Kio and ofc Snodgrass, Halkett was Injured and we had guys like Sibbick and young loanees brought in, it wasn't what we needed.

 

Dhanda, if on a pre contract is also a great signing.

 

Nice shift, even Dexter is exactly what we needed.

 

We are a stop gap for Dexter and tbh his poor defending can cause us issues, i would like to see us use him as an attacking option only as I have serious questions over his defensive ability (as did his previous loan club).

[FarmerTweedy]

9 hours ago, Weonly151 said:

I'd still like us to consider players who are either in our league or have experience playing in it. 

 

Like Zander Clark? Andy Halliday? Barrie McKay? Alan Forrest? Lawrence Shankland? 

 

9 hours ago, Weonly151 said:

I have no issues with experiments from abroad but maybe only 1 a season. 

So which of Kenneth Vargas and Calem Nieuwenhof do you think we shouldn't have signed? 

[Carter]

11 hours ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Tagawa hasn’t worked out… yet. Could still work out.

 

How has recruitment been poor before prior to the summer? Clark, Rowles, Cochrane, Baningime, Forrest, Shankland from yesterday’s starting line up were all before last summer. As were Oda, Atkinson and Devlin who came on. McKay and Grant who’ve both contributed positively this season were before last summer.

 

Are you basing the entire recruitment process since Savage came in on players signed when we were in the Championship or just on Kiomourtzoglou? (Who didn’t work out, but was nowhere near as bad as folk make out)

If you look at what Kio has done (or what he hasn't done) in Germany since he left, I'd say the criticism was fairly legitimate. He was absolutely nowhere near the level required. Wouldn't be surprised if he is moved on again this summer. 

[jamboinglasgow]

Great post by the OP.

 

The fact that we have gone from playing in the Championship, to most likely getting three top four finishes (two of which are likely to be third place) in three seasons, something we haven't done since the 90s (and that was two fourth places and a third place finish) shows the quality of the squad assembled. We are also building a settled squad which means players are familiar with each other while others are constantly changing teams.

 

I can understand frustrations earlier in the season when things weren't working, and naturally recruitment will always be one of the first attacked. But looking back at the bizarre rage people had saying he was dancing on seats when with fans for an European away game was mental.

 

I do think we are seeing the foundations that have been laid by Savage and his team in recruitment, youth development and managerial recruitment starting to pay dividends. Hopefully it only improves from there.

[ColinSmith1255]

9 hours ago, Weonly151 said:

I'd still like us to consider players who are either in our league or have experience playing in it. I do get it that you sometimes get better value for money abroad and players are maybe after less money. But I also think we should be going for the best players from other Scottish teams, which we have started with Dhanda. There are others which have bedn mentioned lots before. The likes of Danny Armstrong, Luke McCowan, Lyle Cameron, Allan Campbell, Greg Dochery and Jeando Fuchs to name a few. All players who would improve our starting eleven but would also be ready to play Scottish football and not need time to settle. I have no issues with experiments from abroad but maybe only 1 a season. It can go both ways, they can be a success or failure.

Which six current first team players are you dropping to include these and improve our starting eleven? 🤪

[FarmerTweedy]

5 hours ago, Rudy T said:

I’ve been a critic and he’s still not convinced me if I’m honest. There’s positions that took too long to fill and many he covered with fairly unconvincing loans. He’s sold us a few too many lines about how he delivers recruitment only for the windows to say different. Let’s not forget we were relegated on his watch and his poor recruitment last January as good as cost us Europe. His car salesmen type approach, I think, has stalled our progress. 
 

We're not far away now but he’s got a new set of challenges ahead. We’re going to get bids for our players who’ll need replaced and we also need to keep building on what we have, that’s not going to be easy and he needs to set out a plan for that.

 

He has got very lucky with Naismith who if the stories are to be believed he didn’t want.

WTAF?

 

Relegated on his watch?  We were last relegated (in a sporting sense) in mid 2014. We were demoted by vote of the other clubs in mid 2020.  Joe Savage joined the club in December 2020.

 

Let's not make up utter bullshit to give ourselves an excuse to slag off someone. 

 

As for his recruitment as good as costing us Europe, it wasn't perfect by any means, but that squad was easily more than capable of finishing 3rd and mainly failed to do so due to dreadful management from Neilson.

[BackOfTheNet]

21 minutes ago, Carter said:

If you look at what Kio has done (or what he hasn't done) in Germany since he left, I'd say the criticism was fairly legitimate. He was absolutely nowhere near the level required. Wouldn't be surprised if he is moved on again this summer. 

He certainly didn’t do enough to warrant a place in the squad for this season and he left. But some were talking about him being one of the worst they’ve ever seen, and he was far from that.

[heartgarfunkel]

13 hours ago, BackOfTheNet said:

I also believe Joe Savage and the Recruitment Team are to headline the Slam Tent at T in the Park…

Nope.

 

If you were a PHM you'd know they've resurrected the Wickerman Festival and are main stage over the three nights.

 

 

[DalryJambo]

12 hours ago, HopeDiouf said:

Recruitment had been poor for a couple of windows prior to summer.  Summer recruitment appears to have worked much better. Only really tagawa hasn't worked out. Always gonna be some that fail. Kent Vargas and Hoff looking like very good business. 

 

Sorry, this is nonsense. It can take players a season to settle and then in the second season they can start to step up. If the team as a whole is struggling or if the player is troubled by injuries this can hold them back.

 

We are now seeing a group of talented players, who are all settling in at the club,  who are being well coached and on the whole most players are fit.

 

To say this is the outcome of one or two windows is off the mark. This is more like 2 to 3 years of work coming together.

[DalryJambo]

6 hours ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Have been critical but I'm beginning to wonder if it was Robbie not getting the best out of the players 

 

Or the players hadn't settled in yet, and weren't all playing as a team quite yet.

[DalryJambo]

Double post

Edited February 19 by DalryJambo

[RobNox]

6 hours ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Joe Savage was appointed December 14th 2020, when we were in the Championship, here is every window since then:

 

JANUARY 2021

 

IN

McEneff

Mackay-Steven

Gnanduillet

Logan (Loan)

Kastaneer (Loan)

 

OUT

Wighton (Loan)

Roberts (Loan)

Moore (Loan)

Joe Savage would have had little input to the transfer dealings in January 2021 given he was only appointed in December 2020.  He's our Sporting Director, not Head of Recruitment, so any deals that were done in Jan-21 were by the then recruitment team.  He did overhaul the recruitment team before the summer 2021 window, which tells me he wasn't impressed by the previous team, so Summer 2021 should be the start point for any critique of recruitment under Savage, and that was a pretty good window.

 

I'm not having a dig at you by the way, I'm in agreement that Savage is doing a good job overall, just pointing out that you shouldn't include the Jan-21 window in your assessment of recruitment under Savage as he'd have had practically no influence on that window. 

[RobNox]

7 hours ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Have been critical but I'm beginning to wonder if it was Robbie not getting the best out of the players 

You might be onto something.  We appoint a new manager with an in bred winning mentality, albeit some on here are frothing about it when results don't immediately go our way, skip forward a few months and the frothers are lining up to self flaggelate, admitting they are happy to be proven wrong about the manager, this player and that player that they had prematurely written off.

[Section Q]

14 hours ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Tagawa hasn’t worked out… yet. Could still work out.

 

How has recruitment been poor before prior to the summer? Clark, Rowles, Cochrane, Baningime, Forrest, Shankland from yesterday’s starting line up were all before last summer. As were Oda, Atkinson and Devlin who came on. McKay and Grant who’ve both contributed positively this season were before last summer.

 

Are you basing the entire recruitment process since Savage came in on players signed when we were in the Championship or just on Kiomourtzoglou? (Who didn’t work out, but was nowhere near as bad as folk make out)

Savage hasnt done too bad. In comparison, some of Levein's recruitment was dire. African left back springs to mind, and Slovakian striker who hardly kicked a ball for us.

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

4 hours ago, DalryJambo said:

 

Or the players hadn't settled in yet, and weren't all playing as a team quite yet.

Was meaning under Robbie

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

3 hours ago, RobNox said:

You might be onto something.  We appoint a new manager with an in bred winning mentality, albeit some on here are frothing about it when results don't immediately go our way, skip forward a few months and the frothers are lining up to self flaggelate, admitting they are happy to be proven wrong about the manager, this player and that player that they had prematurely written off.

Guilty as charged, I was one of the ones delighted to be proved wrong

[CMc]

The difference between the recruitment under Savage and under Levein has been stark. 
 

overall level has been high. No outright stinkers. 
 

Folk moan about Kio and Tagawa, but I think both seem like issues of stylistic fit rather than overall quality. Kio left at cost neutral and actually helped us out in a couple of games. Tagawa hasn’t clicked yet, but with Shanks and Vargas playing the way they are, he hasn’t really been needed. 
 

Folk had previously moaned about Forrest, Grant, Vargas, Oda and Sibbick. The first four have 12 goals and 9 assists and counting this season - at roughly a goal contribution every other game. Sibbick splits the crowd, but is currently fifth choice CB and cover three positions. 
 

Compare that to the Levein combo of stinking out the first team in the present and messing up future teams by darling us with high wage, long contract flops that impacted the budgets of the squads that followed. 
 

it is night and day. 

Edited February 19 by CMc

[Jim Panzee]

1 hour ago, CMc said:

The difference between the recruitment under Savage and under Levein has been stark. 
 

overall level has been high. No outright stinkers. 
 

Folk moan about Kio and Tagawa, but I think both seem like issues of stylistic fit rather than overall quality. Kio left at cost neutral and actually helped us out in a couple of games. Tagawa hasn’t clicked yet, but with Shanks and Vargas playing the way they are, he hasn’t really been needed. 
 

Folk had previously moaned about Forrest, Grant, Vargas, Oda and Sibbick. The first four have 12 goals and 9 assists and counting this season - at roughly a goal contribution every other game. Sibbick splits the crowd, but is currently fifth choice CB and cover three positions. 
 

Compare that to the Levein combo of stinking out the first team in the present and messing up future teams by darling us with high wage, long contract flops that impacted the budgets of the squads that followed. 
 

it is night and day. 

Danny Amankwaa vs Tagawa a good comparison. I don't think any of us saw anything in Amankwaa which made us think he might work out.

 

The observant on here can at least see Tagawa making runs off the shoulder of the last defender. I can see Tagawa getting on the end of passes like Halketts to Vargas v Airdrie. Worth persevering with I think.

 

 

[JamboAl]

2 hours ago, Jim Panzee said:

Danny Amankwaa vs Tagawa a good comparison. I don't think any of us saw anything in Amankwaa which made us think he might work out.

 

The observant on here can at least see Tagawa making runs off the shoulder of the last defender. I can see Tagawa getting on the end of passes like Halketts to Vargas v Airdrie. Worth persevering with I think.

 

 

Afraid it's a totally unfair and naive comparison.

As I inferred earlier, no previous manager has had the money we have now.

It's a bit like asking why we're not currently buying players like De Bruyne and Foden.  We were shopping in Poundland then compared to something much nearer to Harrods now.

[Rick Sanchez]

Robbie Neilson couldn't or wouldn't change a team before 70-75 mins like Naismith does. He set us up decent but couldn't adapt when we were sussed.

 

I hope we continue to explore, particularly for unique players. Fuller was lingering about Tivoli Gardens. Vargas in Costa Rica.

 

Definitely agree with the shouts about eastern Europe. 

[Lone Striker]

17 hours ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Joe Savage was appointed December 14th 2020, when we were in the Championship, here is every window since then:

 

JANUARY 2021

 

IN

McEneff

Mackay-Steven

Gnanduillet

Logan (Loan)

Kastaneer (Loan)

 

OUT

Wighton (Loan)

Roberts (Loan)

Moore (Loan)

 

Lots of ‘supporters’ didn’t like Gnanduillet, but he had 9 goal contributions (5 goals and 4 assists) in 13 games, so was more than good enough at Championship level. Everyone else done a job except Kastaneer. So 1 ’failure’ out of 5 isn’t bad.

 

SUMMER 2021

 

IN

Baningime

Ginnelly (Permanent)

Stewart (Permanent)

Devlin

Woodburn (Loan)

T. Moore (Loan)

A. Cochrane (Loan)

McKay

 

OUT

Irving

Wighton

Lee

Berra

Frear

White

H. Cochrane

L. Moore

Doyle

Popescu (Loan)

Roberts (Loan)

Damour (Loan)

Henderson (Loan)

Naismith (Retired)

 

The incomings much better than the outgoings (Naismith aside, still think he had a season or two in him, but proving correct move for him at this time) I wouldn’t describe any of the incomings as ‘poor’ or ‘failures’. Certainly Woodburn did not live up to expectations though.

 

 

JANUARY 2022

 

IN

Atkinson

Sibbick

Simms (Loan)

 

OUT

Gnanduillet

Roberts (Permanent)

Walker (Loan)

Brandon (Loan)

Pollock (Loan)

 

Atkinson and Sibbick have their boo boys, but there’s no doubt they have been vital for the team at times since their arrivals. Simms was prolific (even though some labelled him to have a touch of an elephant after his first games)

 

 

SUMMER 2022

 

IN

Shankland

Kiomourtzoglou

Forrest

Clark

Neilson

Rowles

A. Cochrane (Permanent)

Grant

Humphrys (Loan)

Snodgrass

 

OUT

Souttar

Walker (Permanent)

Popescu (Permanent)

Damour (Permanent)

Brandon

McEneff

McGill (Loan)

 

Again, what’s come in is much better than what went out. Kiomourtzoglou the only one that hasn’t really worked out to any sort of degree, although I say he was not nearly as bad as some made out. Snodgrass didn’t end well, and although I thought he was extremely overrated by some on here, he did have enough to say he wasn’t a failure.

 

JANUARY 2023

 

IN

Oda

Hill (Loan)

Kuol (Loan)

 

OUT

Henderson (Loan)

C. Smith (Loan)

McGill (Loan)

 

Oda has proven his worth multiple times, even if some want to write him off as a ‘project’ the moment he has an off game. Hill was more than good for us and Kuol didn’t do as much as we hoped, but we were all excited by his prospect. I see no poor signings here, even Kuol.

 

 

SUMMER 2023

 

IN

McGovern

Kent

Tagawa

Nieuwenhof

Vargas (Loan)

Lowry (Loan)

Offiah (Loan)

 

OUT

Kiomourtzoglou

Ginnelly

Henderson

McGill

Neilson (Loan)

C. Smith (Loan)

Stone (Loan)

Snodgrass

Mackay-Steven

M. Smith

Stewart

 

Offiah obviously had issued we weren’t aware of (or weren’t advised by Brighton), Lowry didn’t work out - but since 75% of fans were falling over themselves for him, I’m not going to take that as a poor signing decision. McGovern was fine for what he was signed for (backup) and Tagawa hasn’t proved his worth - yet. It’s still early days. I see no failures in the summer recruitment.

 

 

JANUARY 2024

 

IN

Lembikisa (Loan)

Fraser (Loan)

 

OUT

C. Smith (Permanent)

Halliday (Loan)

McGovern (Loan)

Offiah (Loan cancelled)

 

People were disappointed by who we didn’t sign, rather than who we did. But looking at yesterday, our bench plus some who were out injured could compete for 3rd. So our squad is more than good enough. No failures or poor signings identified.

 

So, when broken down like that, I’m finishing it very difficult to spot the ‘poor’ windows given what we know now and where we are. After all, a lot of the signings had long term thinking behind them.

Thanks for posting those in/out lists since our demotion - very useful to see.     Looking at them, its obvious that  we're now signing players of a higher standard and no longer needing as many each window either.   Another aspect of Joe's role is to manage the contract situation of players with one eye on re-sale value and the other eye on the needs of our team. 

 

 Quality over  quantity - great to see !!

 

Edited February 19 by Lone Striker

[Bazzas right boot]

12 hours ago, Thumperbeni said:

We are a stop gap for Dexter and tbh his poor defending can cause us issues, i would like to see us use him as an attacking option only as I have serious questions over his defensive ability (as did his previous loan club).

 

Agree completely,  but he's a good stop gap, particularly as In most games our full backs are attacking most of the time.

 

Last season the inability to recruit an experienced ch was baffling.

 

[Jim Panzee]

1 hour ago, JamboAl said:

Afraid it's a totally unfair and naive comparison.

As I inferred earlier, no previous manager has had the money we have now.

It's a bit like asking why we're not currently buying players like De Bruyne and Foden.  We were shopping in Poundland then compared to something much nearer to Harrods now.

OK, compare Damour with Tagawa then. Damour didn't come cheap and I don't recall him showing anything. 

[jamboinglasgow]

16 hours ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Have been critical but I'm beginning to wonder if it was Robbie not getting the best out of the players 

 

I still rate Robbie, think despite the collapse that happened last season he is a decent manager. But I completely agree with what you are saying, in particularly that he rarely improves players. Sibbick last season for example was the only one I could think of that got better through out the season. A manager can get by that way if the players maintain the level they came in or that the manager can keep bringing in players. 

 

Naismith is definitely a manger who gets the most out of players and looks to improve them. I have always thought in Scottish football that is the ideal manager, especially when you look to sell players to increase earnings. A tactical manager is good, but a manager who can manage and coach a team better is ideal.

[JamboAl]

14 minutes ago, Jim Panzee said:

OK, compare Damour with Tagawa then. Damour didn't come cheap and I don't recall him showing anything. 

Why are you obsessed with comparing?  You could have compared Kio with Damour and they were both sh*te but the latter did not cost a (relatively) huge fee.

The fact of the matter is that we are moving forward financially and are therefore entitled to expect better quality signings if we continue in this vein.  Sit back and look forward to the future.  The past will disappear gradually.

[Jim Panzee]

11 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Why are you obsessed with comparing?  You could have compared Kio with Damour and they were both sh*te but the latter did not cost a (relatively) huge fee.

The fact of the matter is that we are moving forward financially and are therefore entitled to expect better quality signings if we continue in this vein.  Sit back and look forward to the future.  The past will disappear gradually.

lol. In 3.5k posts on here, I've posted twice comparing two sets of players.

 

I'd better leave this here and search for some counselling for my issue 😆

 

very much looking forward to the future as you suggest.

[Armageddon]

13 hours ago, BackOfTheNet said:

But you’ve just argued your own point. You’ve basically just said the players have it in them to have what it takes and it took good coaching to get a song out of them.

 

So the recruitment team have identified and signed the players to get us where we need to be, and contracted the coach to get that out of them. That, in a nutshell, is what you’ve said without realising it.

 

Unless you’re saying Naismith could get 3rd with Livingston’s squad, then it seems Savage has made the right appointment with Naismith and he and his recruitment team have identified the correct players for Naismith to get us there.

 

I know!  But then who else is there to bash???

[JamboAl]

28 minutes ago, Jim Panzee said:

lol. In 3.5k posts on here, I've posted twice comparing two sets of players.

 

I'd better leave this here and search for some counselling for my issue 😆

 

very much looking forward to the future as you suggest.

Cannot argue with that.

[Jim Panzee]

14 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Cannot argue with that.

Just been.

 

I've got some apples in my left hand and oranges in my right.....😁

[Jeff]

Have to admit I was a bit dumbfounded that we weren't spending money on a top quality manager but it's safe to say he's got it right with Naismith as well.

 

Transfer windows are actually exciting nowadays

[Smithian]

Do we need to give some credit to Andrew McKinlay?

 

I have always liked Joe Savage. I have learned to really like Steven Naismith. The off pitch situation is great. Not certain who hired Lancefield, but our England transfers and loans like Kent, Ellis Simms, Cochrane, and Dexter have overall been really solid.

 

McKinlay's interviews always strike me as a bit over confident, yet.... The results are good. 

[fabienleclerq]

A few points.

Savage can only give the manager the player's, its up to the manager to use them correctly. If a player doesn't work its not instantly ones fault or the other.

 

I think we needed a CH like Kent and its changed our team almost as much as Shankland. 

 

I think we took far too long to get a CH and a replacement for smith. We started games in Europe with 3 LB playing.

 

I think our Squad and bench look very strong and he has to take some credit for it. I think our player sales since he came in must be part of the conversation, much as you want to keep your best players long term we need to improve in that area.

 

Also how he deals with Shankland will be interesting. 

[davie1980]

On 18/02/2024 at 12:16, Niemi’s gloves said:

Dexter filled a short term gap but not as good as he seemed at first; yet to be convinced that Fraser adds a lot. 

 

 

They've only been here for a few weeks ffs

[Niemi’s gloves]

46 minutes ago, davie1980 said:

 

They've only been here for a few weeks ffs

As I said, short term signings this season - covering Offiah, Lowry, Dexter and Fraser - have been mixed. 

[Pilmuir]

On 18/02/2024 at 17:53, BackOfTheNet said:

Joe Savage was appointed December 14th 2020, when we were in the Championship, here is every window since then:

 

JANUARY 2021

 

IN

McEneff

Mackay-Steven

Gnanduillet

Logan (Loan)

Kastaneer (Loan)

 

OUT

Wighton (Loan)

Roberts (Loan)

Moore (Loan)

 

Lots of ‘supporters’ didn’t like Gnanduillet, but he had 9 goal contributions (5 goals and 4 assists) in 13 games, so was more than good enough at Championship level. Everyone else done a job except Kastaneer. So 1 ’failure’ out of 5 isn’t bad.

 

SUMMER 2021

 

IN

Baningime

Ginnelly (Permanent)

Stewart (Permanent)

Devlin

Woodburn (Loan)

T. Moore (Loan)

A. Cochrane (Loan)

McKay

 

OUT

Irving

Wighton

Lee

Berra

Frear

White

H. Cochrane

L. Moore

Doyle

Popescu (Loan)

Roberts (Loan)

Damour (Loan)

Henderson (Loan)

Naismith (Retired)

 

The incomings much better than the outgoings (Naismith aside, still think he had a season or two in him, but proving correct move for him at this time) I wouldn’t describe any of the incomings as ‘poor’ or ‘failures’. Certainly Woodburn did not live up to expectations though.

 

 

JANUARY 2022

 

IN

Atkinson

Sibbick

Simms (Loan)

 

OUT

Gnanduillet

Roberts (Permanent)

Walker (Loan)

Brandon (Loan)

Pollock (Loan)

 

Atkinson and Sibbick have their boo boys, but there’s no doubt they have been vital for the team at times since their arrivals. Simms was prolific (even though some labelled him to have a touch of an elephant after his first games)

 

 

SUMMER 2022

 

IN

Shankland

Kiomourtzoglou

Forrest

Clark

Neilson

Rowles

A. Cochrane (Permanent)

Grant

Humphrys (Loan)

Snodgrass

 

OUT

Souttar

Walker (Permanent)

Popescu (Permanent)

Damour (Permanent)

Brandon

McEneff

McGill (Loan)

 

Again, what’s come in is much better than what went out. Kiomourtzoglou the only one that hasn’t really worked out to any sort of degree, although I say he was not nearly as bad as some made out. Snodgrass didn’t end well, and although I thought he was extremely overrated by some on here, he did have enough to say he wasn’t a failure.

 

JANUARY 2023

 

IN

Oda

Hill (Loan)

Kuol (Loan)

 

OUT

Henderson (Loan)

C. Smith (Loan)

McGill (Loan)

 

Oda has proven his worth multiple times, even if some want to write him off as a ‘project’ the moment he has an off game. Hill was more than good for us and Kuol didn’t do as much as we hoped, but we were all excited by his prospect. I see no poor signings here, even Kuol.

 

 

SUMMER 2023

 

IN

McGovern

Kent

Tagawa

Nieuwenhof

Vargas (Loan)

Lowry (Loan)

Offiah (Loan)

 

OUT

Kiomourtzoglou

Ginnelly

Henderson

McGill

Neilson (Loan)

C. Smith (Loan)

Stone (Loan)

Snodgrass

Mackay-Steven

M. Smith

Stewart

 

Offiah obviously had issued we weren’t aware of (or weren’t advised by Brighton), Lowry didn’t work out - but since 75% of fans were falling over themselves for him, I’m not going to take that as a poor signing decision. McGovern was fine for what he was signed for (backup) and Tagawa hasn’t proved his worth - yet. It’s still early days. I see no failures in the summer recruitment.

 

 

JANUARY 2024

 

IN

Lembikisa (Loan)

Fraser (Loan)

 

OUT

C. Smith (Permanent)

Halliday (Loan)

McGovern (Loan)

Offiah (Loan cancelled)

 

People were disappointed by who we didn’t sign, rather than who we did. But looking at yesterday, our bench plus some who were out injured could compete for 3rd. So our squad is more than good enough. No failures or poor signings identified.

 

So, when broken down like that, I’m finishing it very difficult to spot the ‘poor’ windows given what we know now and where we are. After all, a lot of the signings had long term thinking behind them.

Savage got a hard time at the AGM but, as you point out, he’s got a good track record. We need to learn some patience.

[Tynecastle Valhalla]

I give credit to savage and the team for some of the contact extensions to key players which is often overlooked - it’s so important.

 

if Shankland can be pursuaded to stay even for one more year past existing contract it would be a master stroke 

[RobNox]

2 hours ago, Tynecastle Valhalla said:

I give credit to savage and the team for some of the contact extensions to key players which is often overlooked - it’s so important.

 

if Shankland can be pursuaded to stay even for one more year past existing contract it would be a master stroke 

That's a good point, extending the contracts of key players is every bit as important as recruitment.  It helps ensure continuity and means we're not then having to look for replacements.  It also improves our chances of getting a decent fee if other clubs come in for any of those players.

 

If we can get Shankland to agree a new deal that would be the icing on the cake for me.  I understand we can't just blow our wage structure out of the water to keep him, but hopefully we can come up with a creative package that gives him the financial rewards he deserves.  

[stirlo]

The recruitment over the last few windows has been quite a mixed bag. There have been some excellent signings such as Kent, Vargas and Zander Clark - but there have also been some players who have looked very limited, such as Kio, Tagawa and Sibbick. I know that Nieuwenhof has looked better the last few weeks, but for me the jury is still very much out on him. 

 

Some of the criticism of Savage earlier this season was undoubtedly over the top - but I also think that the great run of form in recent weeks should not be seen as a total vindication of the recruitment, because the reality is that in Lawrence Shankland we have a player who is going through the best period of his career and we are very reliant on his goals. If (and let's hope not) the goals were suddenly to dry up for Lawrence, I would be very concerned about where the goals are going to come from. Vargas definitely gives us another dimension, but in terms of attacking midfielders I still feel we're lacking - and that's why I suspect we'll probably fall a bit short again in the Scottish Cup this season. I'll love it if I'm wrong about that though.

[Sub4TiddlerMurray]

1 hour ago, stirlo said:

The recruitment over the last few windows has been quite a mixed bag. There have been some excellent signings such as Kent, Vargas and Zander Clark - but there have also been some players who have looked very limited, such as Kio, Tagawa and Sibbick. I know that Nieuwenhof has looked better the last few weeks, but for me the jury is still very much out on him. 

 

Nah. The jury has already returned a verdict. The Hoff is a cracking young player showing real consistency and quality. He's still a kid and yet he seems to be improving with every game.