Navalny

[heartgarfunkel]

RIP Navalny - another brave man who gave no ****s about facing stolen power and evil. A Russian hero and a beacon of hope to us all.

 

[il Duce McTarkin]

14 minutes ago, heartgarfunkel said:

RIP Navalny - another brave man who gave no ****s about facing stolen power and evil. A Russian hero and a beacon of hope to us all.

 

 

But did he hate the Hibs?

[PaddysBar]

Unfortunately there will be no repercussions. 
 

Russia is firmly in the grip of a dictator. 
 

As you know, it’s mostly always been that way. Glasnost and perestroika gave us a bit of hope but same old now. 
 

Sadly the revolutionary traits of Ivan has been completely subdued. 

[heartgarfunkel]

1 minute ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

But did he hate the Hibs?

Had arrests for trying to attack Garry O'Connor and Aidan McGeady when they played in Russia so aye. 

[Ray Gin]

There's a good documentary on iPlayer about him from a few years back, titled "Navalny", imaginatively.

 

 

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, Ray Gin said:

There's a good documentary on iPlayer about him from a few years back, titled "Navalny", imaginatively.

 

 

What's it about?

[Section Q]

Navalny was backed heavily by the West which meant he was Putin's deadly enemy. His death in custody isn't great for Putin either. Julian Assange is also close to death and could die in a British jail. The Australian parliament passed a motion last week demanding his release but is likely to be ignored. Most of Putin's enemies get deported and warned not to return to Russia, and most of them don't return. If Assange had been granted the same courtesy he wouldn't be close to death now. British/American/Russian governments aren't all that different.

[JFK-1]

2 minutes ago, Section Q said:

Navalny was backed heavily by the West which meant he was Putin's deadly enemy. His death in custody isn't great for Putin either. Julian Assange is also close to death and could die in a British jail. The Australian parliament passed a motion last week demanding his release but is likely to be ignored. Most of Putin's enemies get deported and warned not to return to Russia, and most of them don't return. If Assange had been granted the same courtesy he wouldn't be close to death now. British/American/Russian governments aren't all that different.

 

If Assange is close to death it's not because he was poisoned nor because he's being treated like Navalny was, that's a pathetic attempt at an equivalence with this man.

 

Assange would run and hide if he could, and never come back, and fair enough, so would I. He's no Navalny, he doesn't have the balls and that's a shameful attempt to even mention him in the same space as this brave man. 

[Section Q]

1 hour ago, JFK-1 said:

 

If Assange is close to death it's not because he was poisoned nor because he's being treated like Navalny was, that's a pathetic attempt at an equivalence with this man.

 

Assange would run and hide if he could, and never come back, and fair enough, so would I. He's no Navalny, he doesn't have the balls and that's a shameful attempt to even mention him in the same space as this brave man. 

Assange wasn't given the chance to walk away. Navalny was. Putin gave billionaire Khodorkovski the option of leaving Russia and  wisely he did. Navalny was financed and backed by foreigners, (the west), Assange was a journalist who didnt threaten anyone. Both cases are tragic.............We might just have to differ on this one.

[il Duce McTarkin]

40 minutes ago, heartgarfunkel said:

Had arrests for trying to attack Garry O'Connor and Aidan McGeady when they played in Russia so aye. 

 

PHM imo.

[Sooperstar]

37 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

What's it about?

The history of the Navy in New York. 

[Dawnrazor]

1 minute ago, Sooperstar said:

The history of the Navy in New York. 

John Findlay is your man.

[il Duce McTarkin]

1 minute ago, Sooperstar said:

The history of the Navy in New York. 

 

[manaliveits105]

The Ukranians should award him a posthumous honour and name a battalion after him just to piss Putin Huilo off 

[JFK-1]

6 hours ago, Section Q said:

Assange wasn't given the chance to walk away. Navalny was. Putin gave billionaire Khodorkovski the option of leaving Russia and  wisely he did. Navalny was financed and backed by foreigners, (the west), Assange was a journalist who didnt threaten anyone. Both cases are tragic.............We might just have to differ on this one.

 

Totally agree we might have to differ, it's a debate forum which requires alternative views. And I respect you for offering an explanation of your reasoning, many don't.

I immediately disagreed with your tangent as I saw it because I was initially looking at this thread as a type of memorial thread to man who has just died, probably pretty much murdered. Even if he died of some type of natural causes i'm pretty sure he would still be alive at 47 if he hadn't been poisoned, probably denied adequate medical care and thrown in a gulag. I thought it inappropriate or indelicate to interject with the Assange stuff.

 
But I suppose it's also an international news item not a memorial thread so I was off the mark there. But that being said I would still strongly object to Nvalany being equated with Asasange on any level aside from both being imprisoned.

Navalny is a man who never tried to run and hide from anything, he didn't flee to a foreign embassy but then again he never had a Europe wide arrest warrant out on him citing multiple cases of sex molestation. Assange did and ran from it.

Nor to steal a quote from 'The Matrix' was Navalny guilty of almost every computer crime we have a law for. Assange on the other hand  has done things anybody would be jailed for. Including but not limited to passing illegally hacked classified information to the killers of Navalny. For which he is wanted in multiple countries.

This is no innocent caught up in some deep conspiracy. While Navalny is guilty of nothing but facing up to one of the most murderous tyrants on the planet. A man who sent in an army to rape torture and murder Ukrainian civilians in the thousands. Then when that didn't break them turned to trying to bomb them back into the stone age, killing many thousands more.

If there is an equivalence I don't see it, aside from both were imprisoned. One for nothing but facing the dictator, the other on serious crimes that would see anyone jailed. For which I would expect nobody to be given a chance to walk away from. If he got the chance he would most definitely flee, probably straight to Putin, and get back to working for him.

[Ray Gin]

8 hours ago, Dawnrazor said:

What's it about?

 

The first attempted murder of him, tracking down who did it to him, and his arrest.

[Section Q]

5 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Totally agree we might have to differ, it's a debate forum which requires alternative views. And I respect you for offering an explanation of your reasoning, many don't.

I immediately disagreed with your tangent as I saw it because I was initially looking at this thread as a type of memorial thread to man who has just died, probably pretty much murdered. Even if he died of some type of natural causes i'm pretty sure he would still be alive at 47 if he hadn't been poisoned, probably denied adequate medical care and thrown in a gulag. I thought it inappropriate or indelicate to interject with the Assange stuff.

 
But I suppose it's also an international news item not a memorial thread so I was off the mark there. But that being said I would still strongly object to Nvalany being equated with Asasange on any level aside from both being imprisoned.

Navalny is a man who never tried to run and hide from anything, he didn't flee to a foreign embassy but then again he never had a Europe wide arrest warrant out on him citing multiple cases of sex molestation. Assange did and ran from it.

Nor to steal a quote from 'The Matrix' was Navalny guilty of almost every computer crime we have a law for. Assange on the other hand  has done things anybody would be jailed for. Including but not limited to passing illegally hacked classified information to the killers of Navalny. For which he is wanted in multiple countries.

This is no innocent caught up in some deep conspiracy. While Navalny is guilty of nothing but facing up to one of the most murderous tyrants on the planet. A man who sent in an army to rape torture and murder Ukrainian civilians in the thousands. Then when that didn't break them turned to trying to bomb them back into the stone age, killing many thousands more.

If there is an equivalence I don't see it, aside from both were imprisoned. One for nothing but facing the dictator, the other on serious crimes that would see anyone jailed. For which I would expect nobody to be given a chance to walk away from. If he got the chance he would most definitely flee, probably straight to Putin, and get back to working for him.

Tangents and Matirix....?

Assange and Navalny are both victims of big "bully" governments. Putin is undoubtedly a criminal. Take your pick from the US and the UK. I personally think Assange will die in prison without ever being found guilty of a single crime.

[Francis Albert]

Sad that this thread should attract weak attempts at wit and and desperate attempts at finding equivalence.

 

 

[Boab]

54 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Sad that this thread should attract weak attempts at wit and and desperate attempts at finding equivalence.

 

 

Commenting on hypocrisy rather than equivalence is ok by me.

As the poster above you rightly says, Putin is a criminal but here we have that weasel, Cameron, saying there will be consequences, calling it an appalling human rights outrage……while a genocide is going on ? 
**** off !

[Ked]

6 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Totally agree we might have to differ, it's a debate forum which requires alternative views. And I respect you for offering an explanation of your reasoning, many don't.

I immediately disagreed with your tangent as I saw it because I was initially looking at this thread as a type of memorial thread to man who has just died, probably pretty much murdered. Even if he died of some type of natural causes i'm pretty sure he would still be alive at 47 if he hadn't been poisoned, probably denied adequate medical care and thrown in a gulag. I thought it inappropriate or indelicate to interject with the Assange stuff.

 
But I suppose it's also an international news item not a memorial thread so I was off the mark there. But that being said I would still strongly object to Nvalany being equated with Asasange on any level aside from both being imprisoned.

Navalny is a man who never tried to run and hide from anything, he didn't flee to a foreign embassy but then again he never had a Europe wide arrest warrant out on him citing multiple cases of sex molestation. Assange did and ran from it.

Nor to steal a quote from 'The Matrix' was Navalny guilty of almost every computer crime we have a law for. Assange on the other hand  has done things anybody would be jailed for. Including but not limited to passing illegally hacked classified information to the killers of Navalny. For which he is wanted in multiple countries.

This is no innocent caught up in some deep conspiracy. While Navalny is guilty of nothing but facing up to one of the most murderous tyrants on the planet. A man who sent in an army to rape torture and murder Ukrainian civilians in the thousands. Then when that didn't break them turned to trying to bomb them back into the stone age, killing many thousands more.

If there is an equivalence I don't see it, aside from both were imprisoned. One for nothing but facing the dictator, the other on serious crimes that would see anyone jailed. For which I would expect nobody to be given a chance to walk away from. If he got the chance he would most definitely flee, probably straight to Putin, and get back to working for him.

Wow.

[il Duce McTarkin]

3 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Sad that this thread should attract weak attempts at wit.

 

 

 

Not something that you're likely to be accused of, eh, Frannie.

[Ray Gin]

4 hours ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

Not something that you're likely to be accused of, eh, Frannie.

 

Shots fired

 

[SpruceBringsteen]

Navalny was a far right piece of human garbage. Just because he opposed another far right piece of human garbage doesn't mean he's a hero. 👍

[Jim_Duncan]

10 minutes ago, SpruceBringsteen said:

Navalny was a far right piece of human garbage. Just because he opposed another far right piece of human garbage doesn't mean he's a hero. 👍

Yeah, read a bit about him being an ultra-nationalist. It’s like when Prigozhn (sp?) was rolling on Moscow; I don’t think he was going there to apologise to Zelensky in his first news conference. 

[JFK-1]

18 hours ago, Section Q said:

Tangents and Matirix....?

Assange and Navalny are both victims of big "bully" governments. Putin is undoubtedly a criminal. Take your pick from the US and the UK. I personally think Assange will die in prison without ever being found guilty of a single crime.

 

Well again we disagree, but this time you have made no attempt to rationalise your opinion by critiquing any points i'm making. Do you want to give everyone who has a Europe wide arrest warrant for sex crime be given the chance to walk away? Or actually in his case run away, no attempt to go to court and prove he's innocent there.

Should everybody accused of such crimes be given that chance? Or just Assange for some odd reason? He's special?

 

Or the computer crimes committed over decades? The type of crimes which countless people have already or are currently serving long periods in prison. Should they all get the chance to just walk away from it too? Or just Assange? He's special even if he is also a serial sex offender?

And a guy who given the chance will flee and actually work for Putin, who you say is undoubtedly a criminal, and I would say the greatest mass murderer we have seen this century. A man who has just murdered Navalny, who again is guilty of nothing but facing up to a dictator. It's in my view bordering on ludicrous to equate them.

Take my pick between US and UK? I pick either ahead of Russia, every time. You apparently don't. On that we disagree too. If they were like Russia you would be in the gulag for talking like this, but here you are talking freely. And rightly so.

[il Duce McTarkin]

 

[Section Q]

6 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Well again we disagree, but this time you have made no attempt to rationalise your opinion by critiquing any points i'm making. Do you want to give everyone who has a Europe wide arrest warrant for sex crime be given the chance to walk away? Or actually in his case run away, no attempt to go to court and prove he's innocent there.

Should everybody accused of such crimes be given that chance? Or just Assange for some odd reason? He's special?

 

Or the computer crimes committed over decades? The type of crimes which countless people have already or are currently serving long periods in prison. Should they all get the chance to just walk away from it too? Or just Assange? He's special even if he is also a serial sex offender?

And a guy who given the chance will flee and actually work for Putin, who you say is undoubtedly a criminal, and I would say the greatest mass murderer we have seen this century. A man who has just murdered Navalny, who again is guilty of nothing but facing up to a dictator. It's in my view bordering on ludicrous to equate them.

Take my pick between US and UK? I pick either ahead of Russia, every time. You apparently don't. On that we disagree too. If they were like Russia you would be in the gulag for talking like this, but here you are talking freely. And rightly so.

The sex crimes you refer to were trumped up charges and dropped before they got to trial.  America will do whatever they can when their authority is threatened. Noriego, ex president of Panama/Allendale PM of Chile are only two cases.

Please dont bother replying to this. Time to switch off here......👍

[henrysmithsgloves]

What he meant to normal russian folk

 

[John Findlay]

So is Putin far left or far right?

[Greenbank2]

The only valid comparison in Navalny's murder is that of Putin, his enforcers and Hitler. End of.

 

I don't know the source of information that would lead anyone to opine differently, but they've been trying to quietly kill Navalny for years, and finally done it knowing that they wouldn't need to report it in Russia. They're now arresting people for laying flowers! Anyone in any doubt, google Sergei Magnitsky. They have murdered Navalny in exacly the same way. And probably hundreds/thousands of others.

 

This regime runs the judicial system, police, media and military all of which are corrupt to the core. Create fictitous charges, forge evidence, use corrupt police to make arrests, fabricate puppet trials, lock people up in concentration camps and torture them to death. I have no comparison with anything in the liberal democracies.

[John Findlay]

6 minutes ago, Greenbank2 said:

The only valid comparison in Navalny's murder is that of Putin, his enforcers and Hitler. End of.

 

I don't know the source of information that would lead anyone to opine differently, but they've been trying to quietly kill Navalny for years, and finally done it knowing that they wouldn't need to report it in Russia. They're now arresting people for laying flowers! Anyone in any doubt, google Sergei Magnitsky. They have murdered Navalny in exacly the same way. And probably hundreds/thousands of others.

 

This regime runs the judicial system, police, media and military all of which are corrupt to the core. Create fictitous charges, forge evidence, use corrupt police to make arrests, fabricate puppet trials, lock people up in concentration camps and torture them to death. I have no comparison with anything in the liberal democracies.

You have never heard of Joe Stalin then?

[Jeffros Furios]

2 hours ago, John Findlay said:

So is Putin far left or far right?

Hes a gangster like the rest of his KGB pals . .****in scumbags 

[Greenbank2]

1 hour ago, John Findlay said:

You have never heard of Joe Stalin then?

IMO there's a difference. Stalin rose to power on the back of the Bolshevik revolution. Yes he became a brutal dictator when all of Europe was emerging from fuedal control by ruling elites. The closest working blueprint was the USA but being capatilist was the opposite of communism. But, again IMO the russian revolution was a move away from control by a ruling class - and then back again under a differet guise. It was a social experiment gone badly wrong. What Putin has done is taken a post USSR fledgling market economy and turned it into a gangster state. He has done this by design. I would never be an apologist for Stalin, but again IMO Putin is in another league.

[John Findlay]

17 minutes ago, Greenbank2 said:

IMO there's a difference. Stalin rose to power on the back of the Bolshevik revolution. Yes he became a brutal dictator when all of Europe was emerging from fuedal control by ruling elites. The closest working blueprint was the USA but being capatilist was the opposite of communism. But, again IMO the russian revolution was a move away from control by a ruling class - and then back again under a differet guise. It was a social experiment gone badly wrong. What Putin has done is taken a post USSR fledgling market economy and turned it into a gangster state. He has done this by design. I would never be an apologist for Stalin, but again IMO Putin is in another league.

You won't be surprised to read that I disagree with you. Joe was the gangster of all gangsters IMHO.

[New Town Loafer]

12 hours ago, SpruceBringsteen said:

Navalny was a far right piece of human garbage. Just because he opposed another far right piece of human garbage doesn't mean he's a hero. 👍

Didn’t realise he was far-right.

 

RIP imo.

[ArcticJambo]

7 hours ago, John Findlay said:

So is Putin far left or far right?

He's far out!

[JFK-1]

9 hours ago, Section Q said:

The sex crimes you refer to were trumped up charges and dropped before they got to trial.  America will do whatever they can when their authority is threatened. Noriego, ex president of Panama/Allendale PM of Chile are only two cases.

Please dont bother replying to this. Time to switch off here......👍

 

So instead of going to court to disprove 'trumped up charges' he absconded, became a wanted criminal on yet another charge? Did you make that up?

 

Why would you do that? I wouldn't make anything up to suit a narrative, all I want are facts so I search for them. Who do I believe? A guy in a football forum bringing nothing but an unsubstantiated claim, or Swedish prosecutors?

 

Quote

Deputy Director of Public Prosecution Eva-Marie Persson took the decision to "discontinue the investigation regarding Julian Assange", the Swedish Prosecution Authority said.

"The reason for this decision is that the evidence has weakened considerably due to the long period of time that has elapsed since the events in question," it added.

Ms Persson said: "I would like to emphasise that the injured party has submitted a credible and reliable version of events.

"Her statements have been coherent, extensive and detailed; however, my overall assessment is that the evidential situation has been weakened to such an extent that that there is no longer any reason to continue the investigation."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50473792

 

Then it becomes some conspiracy like Anti American screed entirely unrelated to this guy and no mention of the computer crime he absolutely did commit and is wanted for in multiple countries including his native Australia. Where they say what he did endangered human agents. Crimes anybody would be jailed for. One of countless cases.

 

Reply to this if you wish, but please don't tell anybody they shouldn't respond to an unsubstantiated narrative you don't want to be critiqued, that's not how debate works. Maybe time for you to switch off if you think that's how it works. 👍

 

 

[Thunder and Lightning]

10 hours ago, John Findlay said:

You have never heard of Joe Stalin then?

Coventry left back in the 70s?

[Mikey1874]

On 18/02/2024 at 13:26, Jeffros Furios said:

Hes a gangster like the rest of his KGB pals . .****in scumbags 

 

There's another word for Putin that escapes me but he's massively enriched himself and his cronies. This was actually originally what angered Putin about Navalny who exposed it. 

[trotter]

5 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

There's another word for Putin that escapes me but he's massively enriched himself and his cronies. This was actually originally what angered Putin about Navalny who exposed it. 

Oligarchs

[the posh bit]

On 16/02/2024 at 22:55, JFK-1 said:

 

If Assange is close to death it's not because he was poisoned nor because he's being treated like Navalny was, that's a pathetic attempt at an equivalence with this man.

 

Assange would run and hide if he could, and never come back, and fair enough, so would I. He's no Navalny, he doesn't have the balls and that's a shameful attempt to even mention him in the same space as this brave man. 

 

Incredible stuff. 

[The Mighty Thor]

I see that the Westminster Govt has got the Rusians telt.

 

They've brought sanctions against the prison officials so that they'll no longer be able to enter the UK. 

 

Thats the prison officials in the Siberian Artic. No more popping over for a weekend bender tovarisch. 

 

I'll bet they're devestated at that news. 

[il Duce McTarkin]

On 18/02/2024 at 14:10, ArcticJambo said:

He's far out!

 

 

 

[ArcticJambo]

quitegood

[il Duce McTarkin]

27 minutes ago, ArcticJambo said:

quitegood

 

Wrong forum, bud.

[Ked]

On 18/02/2024 at 14:14, Greenbank2 said:

IMO there's a difference. Stalin rose to power on the back of the Bolshevik revolution. Yes he became a brutal dictator when all of Europe was emerging from fuedal control by ruling elites. The closest working blueprint was the USA but being capatilist was the opposite of communism. But, again IMO the russian revolution was a move away from control by a ruling class - and then back again under a differet guise. It was a social experiment gone badly wrong. What Putin has done is taken a post USSR fledgling market economy and turned it into a gangster state. He has done this by design. I would never be an apologist for Stalin, but again IMO Putin is in another league.

Putin is conference league in comparison.

The Soviet empire under his rule murdered 10s of millions.

The absurdity of the killing that went on is documented.

Mate Putins no angel but Stalin was the daddy.

Imo .

[Ked]

On 18/02/2024 at 19:56, JFK-1 said:

 

So instead of going to court to disprove 'trumped up charges' he absconded, became a wanted criminal on yet another charge? Did you make that up?

 

Why would you do that? I wouldn't make anything up to suit a narrative, all I want are facts so I search for them. Who do I believe? A guy in a football forum bringing nothing but an unsubstantiated claim, or Swedish prosecutors?

 

 

Then it becomes some conspiracy like Anti American screed entirely unrelated to this guy and no mention of the computer crime he absolutely did commit and is wanted for in multiple countries including his native Australia. Where they say what he did endangered human agents. Crimes anybody would be jailed for. One of countless cases.

 

Reply to this if you wish, but please don't tell anybody they shouldn't respond to an unsubstantiated narrative you don't want to be critiqued, that's not how debate works. Maybe time for you to switch off if you think that's how it works. 👍

 

 

 

You're very rude.

[ArcticJambo]

13 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

Wrong forum, bud.

laugh

[JFK-1]

2 hours ago, Ked said:

 

You're very rude.

 

You're a waste of alerts, pixels, and some sort of nothing to say weirdo obsessive. Go to ignore and obsess like a weirdo there, for years if you want. Find some other weirdo or weirdos to obsess with.

[il Duce McTarkin]

Jeezo.